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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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DragonParadox said:
Well there is that high level dual casting priestess helping out... right now. That counts as the subtle approach.
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Er no, that counts as us going and getting her.

Which yes, in theory could be part of a plan. But sitting back and letting us do everything to the point of not even bothering to provide his own people with directions when we can is too lazy a plan to ever be respectable.

If he had just told his priest in Lys 'that's not a holy relic of mine, it's a fae thing people are looking for, deliver it or be ready to turn it in when they come or at least be aware of what it is if someone asks you!', that would be a respectable yet minimal expenditure way of dealing with things.
 
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065tdsa said:
Er no, that counts as us going and getting her.

Which yes, in theory could be part of a plan. But sitting back and letting us to everything to the point of not even bothering to provide his own people with directions when we can is too lazy a plan to ever be respectable.
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Would you guys really prefer Mel as an independent agent showing up all mysterious in the middle of your actions and offering help only on her terms? I'm guessing that would lead to an antagonistic relationship rather fast... and she has a good enough reading of Viserys' character IC to know that.
 
DragonParadox said:
Would you guys really prefer Mel as an independent agent showing up all mysterious in the middle of your actions and offering help only on her terms? I'm guessing that would lead to an antagonistic relationship rather fast... and she has a good enough reading of Viserys' character IC to know that.
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No, I'd have preferred the local priest to be aware of what's in his temple. In regards to Melisandre, the current arrangement is fine.
 
065tdsa said:
No, I'd have preferred the local priest to be aware of what's in his temple. In regards to Melisandre, the current arrangement is fine.
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To be fair he was aware, he just did not know it had other reasons for existing and no reason why he should have known. We didn't even know this thing was important until we started the action if I understand correctly.
 
065tdsa said:
No, I'd have preferred the local priest to be aware of what's in his temple. In regards to Melisandre, the current arrangement is fine.
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So in that case should all local priests have a direct line to their god? Including said god's ability ro divine through mind blank if he really needed to? Could you guys ever trust a single priest of R'hllor is they had that kind of knowlege/power on call (assuming he could do it)?
 
Absylon Quilby said:
To be fair he was aware, he just did not know it had other reasons for existing and no reason why he should have known. We didn't even know this thing was important until we started the action if I understand correctly.
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He thought it was a holy relic of his god, when it's a fae item that makes gold. At the very least, he should have known what the item was not.
DragonParadox said:
So in that case should all local priests have a direct line to their god? Including said god's ability ro divine through mind blank if he really needed to? Could you guys ever trust a single priest of R'hllor is they had that kind of knowlege/power on call (assuming he could do it)?
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Kind of yes? At least I'd like a priest to be able to ask some yes/no questions of their god if they require it. They don't need all the knowledge and power you describe, but the ability to have even a single question every now and then answered would be ridiculously practical.
 
I mean, we're surprisingly paranoid sometimes. There was literally no good option here apart from "Rhllor phones us and we have weekly chats".
Which would also have been terrifying.
 
DragonParadox said:
"You do not trust the Lord of Light. I will not say that you should, for that is not something to be done at urging from without, I merely ask that you consider that He might act in subtle ways as well as bold," the woman in red replies, looking almost wistful, as for a moment she seems to look through you to some memory long past, in a way that calls to mind the mannerisms of Menel or Grazdan. Not for the first time you wonder how old is Melisandre of Asshai, though you are not of course so gauche as to ask.

"What seeings do you wish me to perform?" she asks in a matter of fact way, drawing you from your thoughts.
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If it was a test of faith then I apologize to R'hllor, but we kind of need that spindle now and we need to dispense with whatever plot is going on here.

I'm suspecting the Court of Stars again since there was a lot of talk of light.
 
DragonParadox said:
That is literally what the commune spell cast by one of his priests does.
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Then why didn't the priest cast that to find out about the holy relic he supposedly got? You know, to make sure it was a holy relic rather than a powerful and maybe cursed item. A spindle that spins gold is really not on theme for R'hllor, while also very on theme with the Fae, and so are ironically painful downsides you only notice after the fact.

The only reason I can think of for him not casting a spell to check would be that he couldn't.
 
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TalonofAnathrax said:
I mean, we're surprisingly paranoid sometimes. There was literally no good option here apart from "Rhllor phones us and we have weekly chats".
Which would also have been terrifying.
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I don't know about that. I would have liked having a god on speed dial. I just came off playing a Level 20 game for DnD 5e and Clerics just get to summon their god to the field and it is just amazing.
 
DragonParadox said:
Well for one thing Haldon is an oracle not a cleric and it's quite posibile he does not have commune as one of his spells known even assuming he can cast 5th level spells.
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Well if he can't cast it then we're back to my point: with a ritual set up of some kind, or just direct expenditure of power, R'hllor could allow even those of his priests who can't cast that spell on the standard fashion (which is probably most of them) to ask questions when important things came up.

This goes for most gods really, the ability to ask for directions in your time of need is ludicrously handy, specially for lower level, community-figure priests who don't have the power to fix the consequences of a bad call. Higher level adventurer priests like Melisandre by contrast have all the divination they want and very little concerns as to using it, since they can always patch over risky choices with firepower.
 
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[X] Questions
-[X] Do a combination of divinations and commune questions about the various factions operating in the Goblin Market.
-[X] Is the Hooded Lord aligned against us?
-[X] Are there agents of the Court of Stars acting against us in the Goblin Market?
-[X] Are there agents of Ymeri acting against us in the Goblin Market?
-[X] Are there fiends acting against us in the Goblin Market?
-[X] Do a divination to find the identity of the person who gave the spindle to the Temple of R'hllor in Lys.
-[X] Once the above are answered, narrow down all leads until we have a solid idea of who is pulling the strings here.
-[X] Ask if the spindle is a relic of R'hllor in some fashion.
--[X] Followup question, ask if it is the Fey Token to the Goblin Market that you're hunting.

Ideally we can recruit the Hooded Lord and vassalize him to run the Goblin Market for us, and if we're really lucky we can rope him into running the Fey Forge.
 
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065tdsa said:
Well if he can't cast it then we're back to my point: with a ritual set up of some kind, or just direct expenditure of power, R'hllor could allow even those of his priests who can't cast that spell (which is probably most of them) on the standard fashion to ask questions when important things came up.
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Crafting a ritual for high level spells is hard, and casting them without having one's brain fried by magic beyond your personal ability to control is also a concern. If there were any quick fixes to the current priest-god relationship they would have been used already.
 
DragonParadox said:
Crafting a ritual for high level spells is hard, and casting them without having one's brain fried by magic beyond your personal ability to control is also a concern. If there were any quick fixes to the current priest-god relationship they would have been used already.
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Then gods should quit promising unfailing guidance to people, and encourage them to use their brains instead. If this had been someone with more brains that a bunch of Fae playing with a magic spindle, the temple could have blown up, since it's that easy to get them to take an unknown item as safe.

The main reason this is a problem is because R'hllor is promising people he will handle things, and then not handling it. If he wasn't promising so much coverage no one would care when he slips.
 
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While radical atheism is fun, this maybe isn't the best time to have this conversation IC ?
OOC, knock yourselves out. But let's please not vote to actually argue with Melisandre about it just yet.
 
065tdsa said:
Then gods should quit promising unfailing guidance to people, and encourage them to use their brains instead. If this had been someone with more brains that a bunch of Fae playing with a magic spindle, the temple could have blown up, since it's that easy to get them to take an unknown item as safe.

The main reason this is a problem is because R'hllor is promising people he will handle things, and then not handling it. If he wasn't promising so much coverage no one would care when he slips.
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That is a very subjective call and it basically hinges on a moral judgement of R'hllor himself. His worshipers obviously do not feel that, but rhe worshipers of other gods might agree.
 
@DragonParadox, I assume the priest will give us the spindle once Melisandre informs him that it's not actually a relic or R'hllor? I'm hoping I'm right here, it's going to be a bit of a headache if we have to convince him to part with something he holds sacred.
 
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