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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Crake said:
[X] Goldfish

Well I also made this plan, so really, I'm just voting for my own plan. :V
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That happened to me once a while back. I can't remember what the vote was for, but I changed my mind and wrote a new plan, but others were still pulling for it. My new plan ended up losing to my old plan, IIRC.
 
Duesal said:
[X] Goldfish

By the way @Goldfish, has the lovely Pathfinder variant of Miracle been vetoed?
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Yep. No using diamonds to fuel the big expressions of Miracle. Those will still require XP, and since we're fueling it entirely on our own with no deific assistance, those will cost 10,000 XP rather than just 5,000.

That's hefty, but acceptable, IMO. We can still use it for regular everyday stuff, like duplicating spells and sorting piles of paperwork.
 
Goldfish said:
Yep. No using diamonds to fuel the big expressions of Miracle. Those will still require XP, and since we're fueling it entirely on our own with no deific assistance, those will cost 10,000 XP rather than just 5,000.

That's hefty, but acceptable, IMO. We can still use it for regular everyday stuff, like duplicating spells and sorting piles of paperwork.
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If it costs 10,000 XP I'll be fighting against using it. We can't afford that sort of wastage when we literally have the Old Gods, Yss, and the Merling King perfectly happy to toss out miracles of their own if we feed them.
 
Artemis1992 said:
I would call our reason pragmatism.

In Braavos we wanted to talk, but he foresaw a bad ending and fled.

In Pentos we didn't dare to face him fully prepared and weren't capable of good and quick capture, so we killed him.

After that his mind was twisted by a dark god and even without that we killed him, so we didn't want to trust him after that matter.
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This is honestly true, and even thinking back to when I was only reading the quest still, I wondered if perhaps we would have simply just cut a deal with him instead. It would have been a free mage with ambition and a reason to stick close to us, and we could hardly afford to turn back the extra hands and spells back then.

But the vote was either interpreted as too likely to become a violent confrontation (which either suggests that DP weighed some of the discussion that he had read as opposed to hadn't at the time more heavily than what was had) or that the man already was unstable and paranoid, and it just grew worse and worse and we would have been escorting a ticking time bomb waiting for the right chance to stab us in the back.

@DragonParadox You don't do it anymore, which is really nice, but you made a lot of the people who eventually became our enemies filthy-mc-bad-bad in a form of hindsight bias. We never seemed to discover anyone who did even one greyish or amoral act to have been hiding a proclivity toward feeding starving orphans, for example, they were either your run of the mill pack of barely-not-bandits like the mercenaries we slaughtered, or worse, were actively cruel and malicious by nature.

So I would say it's just likely Tor was written this way. It would have taken a lot more thorough intervention to get Tor to stop being insane for example, intervention which would have come with limiting his actions and abilities, which would have set off his paranoia, so...

Yeah, that's why I wasn't looking forward to this discussion, we might have acted mostly out of simple pragmatism and multiple years not being able to afford to take chances (whereas now we can take more chances because we're secure in our power).

I wonder if any of them actually notice that there are marked differences in what we can afford to do now, as opposed to back then, though?
 
Duesal said:
If it costs 10,000 XP I'll be fighting against using it. We can't afford that sort of wastage when we literally have the Old Gods, Yss, and the Merling King perfectly happy to toss out miracles of their own if we feed them.
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No worries there, I'm with you on that one. We can't afford that kind of expenditure right now anyway, since it would de-level Viserys and that just isn't happening. Eventually, though, he'll be able to eat that cost.

It's a great tool to keep in our toolbox for really drastic emergencies, not one that we should use on a whim. Those kinds of uses of Miracle aren't trivial; turning the tide of a large battle might be something like defeating a major incursion by the Others, protecting a city from a tidal wave might stop a tsunami engineered by the Deep Ones from scouring all life from Sorcerer's Deep, and so on.
 
[X] Goldfish

I don't know what else we can say, really, other than if they want to disband their oaths, then we leave the door open for them to come back - even if they don't want to rejoin but to talk to us. I don't know if this wound can be healed with a single conversation. What do you think, @Goldfish?
 
Negentropy said:
[X] Goldfish

I don't know what else we can say, really, other than if they want to disband their oaths, then we leave the door open for them to come back - even if they don't want to rejoin but to talk to us. I don't know if this wound can be healed with a single conversation. What do you think, @Goldfish?
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How does this look?

----[] "Before anyone can cut in, at this point succinctly say, "I'll release you from your oaths should you feel scorned by this revelation. I owe you all that much. And I would greatly value your continued, and willing, service, your wisdom, and your friendship."
----[] "Before anyone can cut in, at this point succinctly say, "I'll release you from your oaths should you feel scorned by this revelation. I owe you all that much. And I would greatly value your continued, and willing, service, not to mention the wisdom and experience you have gathered throughout your long lives. Either way, should you choose to remain in my service or leave to seek your fortunes elsewhere, I hope that we can remain friends."
 
It would solve so many problems if we could simply present them with both of Tor's skulls to answer all their questions about his crimes. But of course nothing is that simple.
 
It's not that simple, even if they don't doubt Tor did those things, they still love him like a brother, remembering all the good times. It's hard to think something couldn't have been done to fix it all, esp. since demonstratively, yeah, we're taking chances on fiends like Azema, and they're paying off in a big way.

But Azema had proven some of her credentials before we gave her more trust, and Tor... didn't, and the other ones we started trusting/recruiting happened when we had enough power to fix the mistakes they might have made our responsibility.

And still we could have tried harder, but would it have been reasonable to do so?

Not really.
 
I think the proper saying in Draconic translates to "Give me loot or I give you death, then I take your loot."
 
In before Bu Gai is a Sovereign Dragon-Blooded Sorcerer. Just underleveled, because bureaucracy!

Seriously though, we are the Red Dragon of the West. The Azure Dragon of the East is an Eastern literature staple.
 
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Takesis said:
In before Bu Gai is a Sovereign Dragon-Blooded Sorcerer. Just underleveled, because bureaucracy!

Seriously though, we are the Red Dragon of the West. The Azure Dragon of the East is an Eastern literature staple.
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Ugh, I can just see the erotic fiction incoming written by some ladies of the court.

You know Azema would give them patronage! And gift us a laminated copy!
 
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