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This, at least, will not be featured; the Soo Locks are one of the only pieces of vital infrastructure the Vicks and the Russians didn't trash. Victoria wants freighter access so they can go on draining wealth from the region — if nothing else, there's a lot of good iron to be had up there.

The people who live around the Soo Locks are required under pain of death, and damn the cost to them permitted to keep the Locks in good working order, and thus even gained dispensation to industrialize somewhat to help with that, which really only barely helps to defray the colossal costs of maintaining the damn things, but if they fail...
OK, I'd been meaning to ask about that. I guess I jumped to conclusions- but you have to admit, it'd be a logical example of an infrastructure project to get into after we'd completed our initial survey.

So cool, that's a diplomatic action then. They probably aren't too fond of Victoria, so if we can complete Soothing Fears, hopefully they will be amenable to closer ties in the future.
 
This is why we need to lay down our arms and invite the remaining Victorian military into the city to enjoy hot cocoa and stimulating conversation until they come to appreciate the virtues of voluntarist pacifism. With their help we're bound to figure out a cooperatively nonviolent way to reform the Victorian government. Perhaps a hunger strike or online petition. Maybe some sort of performative art?

Ruthless does not mean effective. There are few things are pointlessly counterproductive as an ineffective atrocity.
A bioweapon hit to victoria bad enough to be worthwhile would run a serious danger of spreading to us. Furthermore, as the taboo against biowarfare has not been eroded, it would be diplomatically isolating at best and invite actual EU strikes against us at worst. It may also cause civil unrest if our population takes it poorly.

We are not in a position where there are many atrocities that would be worthwhile. If we'd gotten that nuke, then there would be some horrific but worthwhile options open to us. But alas, we did not, so I don't see any worthwhile mega death options on the table. maybe going to that nuclear crater and seeing if we can scrape together a dirty bomb, but that's a lot of work for something that to my understanding, isn't super deadly.
 
FRESH FROM THE DISCORD!
Poptart:
As for what they could do...honestly, probably not much? It'd be a day to get across the Lake to Toledo, and it takes at least two for the Vicks to get through the blasted hellscape in between that and Monroe, even unharassed. You'd be in Toledo by the time they could arrive. Of course, the Toledans themselves likely have a military there, and if they're still fighting you by the time even a single Victorian division arrives to provide support...

Me:
But, do we know the Toledo forces are loyal to Victoria? We could go in like "We're here to evict the vicks and give you free food and stuff!"

Poptart:
You know that they allowed Victoria to base out of their city. Other than that, you've had no contact other than a single formal notice that a state of war exists at this time between the cities of Toledo and Detroit.

Me:
Can we get in radio contact with the warlord of Toledo?

Poptart:
If you want him shot.

Me:
Fuck.
Can we get in contact with the city just in general? Maybe with whoever would be doing the shooting?
Even if it's some CMC diehard.

Poptart:
I mean, you can start broadcasting in Toledo's general direction. You just have absolutely no way to prevent Victorians from listening in.

Me:
WAIT! WAIT! 200 IQ IDEA! We start broadcasting in Toledo's general direction, making it sound like we're angling to try and flip the warlord over to our side. Maybe send the gunboats down to try and make it look authentic. Then, when they're pulling forces off of the Monroe line, we strike!

Poptart:
Maybe you should post this in the thread, so that it may gain traction before I open the vote in-
>checks
-ten minutes.

(Note, this last message was approximately 10 minutes ago)

Chimeraguard:
Speaking of Detroit and Toledo, I recall one of the previous Detroit dispatches bits mentioning that the Detroit City Council was still worried even after the Leamington force got wrecked, because the Toledo force had tanks and the CMC, and better (well, existing) supply lines. Since we're likely to get Toledo & Victorian (from the captive general) viewpoints about how things have gone, how's the City Council been reacting to the way the Battle of the Raisin turned out?

Poptart:
For now, I'll leave that to the omake writers. I'll take it if we end the battle and I want to write outside perspective updates, and nobody has yet covered it to my satisfaction.
 
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I think it would be reasonable to infer that the City Council of Detroit's reaction to the Battle of the Raisin has been favorable. The main question is whether they are 'relieved' or 'very relieved,' I would think.
 
All right, vote's open.

Let's have a look at write-in options. While I ask you to tag me with these, I'll usually include any I spot. However, in this case we have twelve pages of discussion. I'm only doing options where I was directly addressed.

-[] Capture them. Start with one of the lakers, holding most of the fleet a mile or two back in case they've been rigged with extensive demolitions as "fire ships."

For the vote about what to do with the Victorian cargo ships. Driven by extreme caution that the Victorians are sneaking significant amounts of explosives on the larger ships coming your way.

-[] Capture the freighters if it appears possible to disable them without a threat to the overall safety of the fleet. Sink them if they put up too much of a fight to allow that, or if there is reason to think they are rigged as suicide bombs.

Again for the cargo ship vote. Realistically, Romano won't keep driving hard if he thinks it's too dangerous, but there's a lot of fear in the thread about those ships, so I'll let you have this one.

-[] Ongoing harassment and probing attacks to force the Victorians to exhaust their supplies, followed by a decisive attack supported by Old World Equipment after they are deemed to be sufficiently weakened.

For the vote on how to address the last standers in Monroe, this is essentially Limited Assault with the final blow augmented by OWE. Therefore, you may assume that all timetables are the same as Limited Assault.

And, in case you've forgotten, the votes as presented in the update, with the new options included.

The engagement at the Raisin was decisively in your favor, and General Burns is firmly of the opinion that the tide has turned. The Victorians appear to agree. They are sacrificing Savior Division and some of their infantry to buy time, and bringing everything else into last-stand mode at the Raisin Line, aside from the Lake Erie Island force, which presumably is preparing to reenact the Second World War's Pacific Front as experienced by the Empire of Japan. You cannot realistically prevent them from getting into position; the question is how you want to deal with the suicide force, and how you want to approach this last stand. The battle is almost over. How do you wish to end it?

[ ] Plan [NAME]

Savior Division appears to be choosing glory over survival, along with some of the survivors of those divisions who attempted to cross the River Raisin. How would you like to eradicate them?

-[ ] Defend with available forces. They simply cannot force the Huron with worse than two-to-one odds. Commit the Big Red One if somebody really fucks up, but otherwise just let them batter themselves to death. Head out and finish them once they're incapable of resisting you. Estimated three days to total force destruction. Uses a charge of OWE in the unlikely event that the BRO needs to step in.
-[ ] Defend with all committable forces. Bring up all of your troops and all of the Detroit Militia. You don't just want to win this one; you want to utterly smash this assault and enjoy numerical superiority for a change. Afterwards, you can wipe them out easily. With this force, you won't even hypothetically need the Big Red One. Estimated two days to total force destruction. The BRO will not in any case be needed.

After you deal with the suicide force, you will have to deal with the Victorians' last stand, which will entail resting and resupplying your forces to go on the offensive against prepared defenses. How will you approach this?

-[ ] Full assault. Commit everything you possibly can. Without the Big Red One, this would not be feasible. With them, it will merely be bloody. Uses a charge of OWE. Certainty of high casualties, possibility of extreme casualties. Three days to prepare and begin offensive operations. Swift resolution, likely within a week one way or the other.
-[ ] Limited assault. Don't try to smash them outright, but you cannot countenance just letting them be. Begin launching probing attacks across a wide area. Force them to spread their forces and strain their logistics. Wear down their supplies and weaken them for the final clash. Does not use a charge of OWE. Certainty of limited casualties. Possibility of moderate casualties. Five days to prepare and begin offensive operations. Slower resolution, likely several weeks.
-[ ] Ongoing harassment and probing attacks to force the Victorians to exhaust their supplies, followed by a decisive attack supported by Old World Equipment after they are deemed to be sufficiently weakened.
-[ ] Siege. Victorians do not get glorious last stands against you. They get run down like foxes before your tanks. They get picked apart from extreme range, useless prayers on their lips. This force will die the slow death of starvation and dwindling supplies. Only once they have lost any ability to present a threat to your forces will you close the noose on them. Does not use a charge of OWE. Possibility of light casualties. Possibility that the Victorians' nerve breaks and they resume their offensive. One week to prepare and begin offensive operations. Resolution will likely take a long time, possibly multiple months.

The Navy has a fleet of unarmed cargo vessels bearing down on them.

-[ ] Sink them. They want smoke plumes on the horizon to signal their men, they can have them.
-[ ] Capture the freighters if it appears possible to disable them without a threat to the overall safety of the fleet. Sink them if they put up too much of a fight to allow that, or if there is reason to think they are rigged as suicide bombs.
-[ ] Capture them. Start with one of the lakers, holding most of the fleet a mile or two back in case they've been rigged with extensive demolitions as "fire ships."
-[ ] Capture them. Hey, if Victoria doesn't want the tonnage, you can see some use in them.

What will the Navy do in support of the final destruction of the Victorian Army?

-[ ] Full bombardment. The Navy will commit to intense shore bombardment of Victorian positions, trying to destroy as many troops and materiel as they possibly can to burn through the Victorians supplies and manpower.
-[ ] Scouting missions. Whatever you do on land, you'll need accurate and up-to-date information to do it. With control of the sea, you might even be able to force naval landings behind the River Raisin and circumvent Victoria's main defensive barrier.
-[ ] Blockade. All of this could be undone if Victoria manages to slip transport ships to its cut-off forces. Ensure that that cannot happen.

And we're live.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Again for the cargo ship vote. Realistically, Romano won't keep driving hard if he thinks it's too dangerous, but there's a lot of fear in the thread about those ships, so I'll let you have this one.
My main reason for the phrasing in question was to make it very clear to Romano that he's not going to be hung out to dry for failing to capture the ships, desirable as they are. I know Romano's not reckless, but an order like "capture those ships" sometimes gets interpreted in ways people regret, even by competent officers.
 
[X] Plan: Maneuver Out of This!
-[X] Defend with all committable forces. Bring up all of your troops and all of the Detroit Militia. You don't just want to win this one; you want to utterly smash this assault and enjoy numerical superiority for a change. Afterwards, you can wipe them out easily. With this force, you won't even hypothetically need the Big Red One. Estimated two days to total force destruction. The BRO will not in any case be needed.
-[X] Siege. Victorians do not get glorious last stands against you. They get run down like foxes before your tanks. They get picked apart from extreme range, useless prayers on their lips. This force will die the slow death of starvation and dwindling supplies. Only once they have lost any ability to present a threat to your forces will you close the noose on them. Does not use a charge of OWE. Possibility of light casualties. Possibility that the Victorians' nerve breaks and they resume their offensive. One week to prepare and begin offensive operations. Resolution will likely take a long time, possibly multiple months.
-[X] Capture them. Hey, if Victoria doesn't want the tonnage, you can see some use in them.
-[X] Full bombardment. The Navy will commit to intense shore bombardment of Victorian positions, trying to destroy as many troops and materiel as they possibly can to burn through the Victorians supplies and manpower.
 
I half-suspect those ships are carrying more soldiers even if they are supposedly mostly empty. Or maybe they're just a distraction while the Vics send transport ships to the ground forces? Anyway, something stinks and I want to be on guard against it, thus the scouting missions and defending with only available forces. And I went for limited assault instead of siege because I want to free up our forces for other things sooner than 'months from now' but I also don't want to use any more OWE.

[x] Plan Rockeye is uncreative about names
-[x] Defend with available forces. They simply cannot force the Huron with worse than two-to-one odds. Commit the Big Red One if somebody really fucks up, but otherwise just let them batter themselves to death. Head out and finish them once they're incapable of resisting you. Estimated three days to total force destruction. Uses a charge of OWE in the unlikely event that the BRO needs to step in.
-[x] Limited assault. Don't try to smash them outright, but you cannot countenance just letting them be. Begin launching probing attacks across a wide area. Force them to spread their forces and strain their logistics. Wear down their supplies and weaken them for the final clash. Does not use a charge of OWE. Certainty of limited casualties. Possibility of moderate casualties. Five days to prepare and begin offensive operations. Slower resolution, likely several weeks.
-[x] Scouting missions. Whatever you do on land, you'll need accurate and up-to-date information to do it. With control of the sea, you might even be able to force naval landings behind the River Raisin and circumvent Victoria's main defensive barrier.
-[x] Capture them. Hey, if Victoria doesn't want the tonnage, you can see some use in them.
 
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[X] Plan: Maneuver Out of This!

Sounds like a good option. Plus, while this may be a little morbid and sadistic, we can use the next several months to allow new recruits to get a little experience via skirmishing with the Victorian force and whittling them down.

Also, quick question for @PoptartProdigy. Later on once we return to nation managing, is it possible to use up an OWE to possibly reverse-engineer part of it, or something similar at least, and incorporate it into our main forces?
 
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Later on once we return to nation managing, is it possible to use up an OWE to possibly reverse-engineer part of it, or something similar at least, and incorporate it into our main forces?
I'm not QM but I think that would be a lengthy and difficult process, given that we have basically zero industry and OWE requires lots and lots of complicated industry to manufacture.
 
[X] Plan: Maneuver Out of This!

Everything I want in a plan and it takes no stupid risks or casualties just time and makes best use of Victoria's weaknesses.
 
[X] Plan: Maneuver Out of This!

Sounds like a good option. Plus, while this may be a little morbid and sadistic, we can use the next several months to allow new recruits to get a little experience via skirmishing with the Victorian force and whittling them down.

Also, quick question for @PoptartProdigy. Later on once we return to nation managing, is it possible to use up an OWE to possibly reverse-engineer part of it, or something similar at least, and incorporate it into our main forces?
Yes. In fact, that's one of their explicit uses. It would require some work on your industry, though. It's not something you could do immediately.
 
[X] Plan: Maneuver Out of This!

Simple, effective, and doesn't have over-complicated write-in options.
 
[X] Plan: Maneuver Out of This!

An endgame which beautifully deconstructs every remaining part of the Victorian doctrine. What more could I ask for?

Edit: Plus I would save to now save on OWE while we have the advantage and time, hopefully, we can improve our industry enough to reverse engineer the OWE before Russia comes around, or sends in another client state, or assumes direct control of Victoria to raise up a modern force.
 
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[x] Plan Rockeye is uncreative about names

Currently has my vote because I don't think we can afford to wait for the siege especially if we don't have the Navy put on blockade duty. Time is ever the enemy.
 
With the risk of the Toledoans actually (!?!?!) fighting for Victoria under present circumstances pointed out, and with our lack of an intelligence network to tell us what's going on in there, my enthusiasm for a sea landing around Toledo has diminished rather sharply.

This is a "limited assault" plan designed to end this campaign in, oh, less than a month without waiting for the Victorian remnant force to starve to death. It uses a charge of Old World Equipment to finish the Victorians off, but frankly that will be the last charge we need to use during this campaign, and I think it's worth it to buy a decisive end to the affair. The value of totally shattering the remaining portion of that army, of doing so in a timely manner before the Russians can plausibly decide to interfere, strike me as worth it. We'll still have two charges left sitting around for reverse-engineering, and I think we're unlikely to need them any time soon given how this particular campaign has turned out.

[X] Plan Needle and Hammer
-[X] Defend with all committable forces.
-[X] Ongoing harassment and probing attacks to force the Victorians to exhaust their supplies, followed by a decisive attack supported by Old World Equipment after they are deemed to be sufficiently weakened.
-[X] Capture the freighters if it appears possible to disable them without a threat to the overall safety of the fleet. Sink them if they put up too much of a fight to allow that, or if there is reason to think they are rigged as suicide bombs.
-[X] Full bombardment. The Navy will commit to intense shore bombardment of Victorian positions, trying to destroy as many troops and materiel as they possibly can to burn through the Victorians supplies and manpower.
 
[X] Plan: Maneuver Out of This!

I'd also be willing to vote for a plan that replaced siege with a no OWE limited assault and/or this capture option (-[ ] Capture the freighters if it appears possible to disable them without a threat to the overall safety of the fleet. Sink them if they put up too much of a fight to allow that, or if there is reason to think they are rigged as suicide bombs. ), but I don't feel either is truly necessary.

Essentially, we've used 2 OWE charges out of 5, so not using one here leaves us 2 more uses in a follow-up campaign if we need it without stopping us from reverse-engineering OWE once we've built our industry up enough.
 
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