The synergy between the Oracle and Temple being together in the same city will boost our cultural and religious influence far more than if they are seperate.
For the people who already subscribe to it, sure. That doesn't include half of our league members.

I also don't know if I want to pile on with and empower the religious authorities by having them all concentrated right here, it was kind of annoying how the augeries kept on coincidentally telling us that the Mantis needed a sweeter temple or to expand construction and throw us into a tizzy over various bad roles. I don't mind the oracle being accessible for flavor but if she's consulted all the time and we have to abide by cryptic advice up to the interpretation of one of my least favorite offices or risk the displeasure of the people then that could get tiresome rather quickly.
 
For the people who already subscribe to it, sure. That doesn't include half of our league members.

I also don't know if I want to pile on with and empower the religious authorities by having them all concentrated right here, it was kind of annoying how the augeries kept on coincidentally telling us that the Mantis needed a sweeter temple or to expand construction and throw us into a tizzy over various bad roles. I don't mind the oracle being accessible for flavor but if she's consulted all the time and we have to abide by cryptic advice up to the interpretation of one of my least favorite offices or risk the displeasure of the people then that could get tiresome rather quickly.

A powerful homebase has never hindered the spread of religion. It has actually helped it. Large religious and cultural influence in a trade city such as ours will help us spread the Divine Marriage to all corners where Eretrian trade reaches.


What hindered us before was that Eretria was weak culturally. Now, with the new Temple and the Oracle we can take advantage of our expanding trade network to also spread our culture. The improving quality of our plays will likely also be a factor.
 
Last edited:
[X] [Motion] Phokion's Amendment. The Xenoparakletor will have one deputy chosen at their leisure and approved by the Popular Tribunal.
[X] [Missions] Flexible diplomacy prioritizing breadth and the ability to address multiple issues over focus. [2 missions from winning Demos, then ability to choose 1 more from the losing slates per term].
[X] [Oligarchs] Kymai must be made anew and bury old hatreds [+400 Kymaians go to Nea Kymai, city may have more wealth and political conflict in early years].
[X] [Prophecy] A Tree of Stone, growing in a newly planted grove upon the ashes of ancient monuments [-250 Kymaians go to Nea Kymai, -70 talents, Sibyl will go to Eretria Eskhata, Eretria Eskhata will gain an oracle and cultural influence].
[X] [Oaths] Make Melaina Kerkyra and Epidauros swear oaths to the Divine Marriage [Cities will be unhappy but Epulian League oath will be preserved].
[X] [Lands] Grant additional lands to Melaina Kerkyra and Epidauros [Both cities will be granted new lands by Eretria and grow in population, both will be very happy].
 
Last edited:
A powerful homebase has never hindered the spread of religion. It has actually helped it. Large religious and cultural influence in a trade city such as ours will help us spread the Divine Marriage to all corners where Eretrian trade reaches.


What hindered us before was that Eretria was weak culturally. Now, with the new Temple and the Oracle we can take advantage of our expanding trade network to also spread our culture. The improving quality of our plays will likely also be a factor.
Our choice to not spread the idea of the Divine Marriage when we have the opportunity to would definitely hinder it, though. Certainly it would allow us to benefit from the admiration of the local barbaroi who are impressed by the Sibyl as well as the Italiotes are already on board with the Divine Marriage, but there's no way that we're going to spread this around the cities of the Illyrian coast and Hellas as easily by investing at home compared to investing in a religious center near them.

We already have large religious and cultural influence, that was the point of vastly expanding our temple complex. We were weak culturally at the start of the RP but that was exactly the first thing we chose to counteract with our Great Work, and then we even doubled down on it moreso.
 
[X] [Motion] Phokion's Amendment. The Xenoparakletor will have one deputy chosen at their leisure and approved by the Popular Tribunal.
[X] [Missions] Flexible diplomacy prioritizing breadth and the ability to address multiple issues over focus. [2 missions from winning Demos, then ability to choose 1 more from the losing slates per term].

"The sacred office of Xenoparakletor must be able to execute a singular vision, but be subject to the direction of our Assembly.

The proposal of the son of Aristedes is wise. To force the defeated candidates for Xenoparakletor to accept the command of the victor risks bringing resentment and factionalism into this sacred office. If there is a true friendship and respect across Demes like that between Obander and Memnon, then that is all to the good, and we might well imagine Obander appointing Memnon as his second. But a system that relies on friendship and respect between political rival is built upon a foundation of sand and invites disaster.

The proposal of Leander is like tying three oxen to the same plough, and assuming that this will give three times the pull. They may do, but not often in the same direction!

However, it is useful to retain the ability to pick the best policies proposed by the losing Demes. This policy has already let us undertake many important ventures which we might not have done otherwise. Even if they are not the choice of the Xenoparakletor who will undertake them, a young deputy may well be able to rise to the occasion, or in the right circumstances perhaps our Xenoparakletor may appoint a respected rival."

[X] [Oligarchs] Kymai must be made anew and bury old hatreds [+400 Kymaians go to Nea Kymai, city may have more wealth and political conflict in early years].
[X] [Prophecy] A Sapling of Wood, growing in a primordial forest looming over waves lashing the crags of a rocky coast [+1000 Kymaians go to Nea Kymai, Sibyl will go Nea Kymai, Nea Kymai will become a new center of the Divine Marriage].
[X] [Oaths] Make Melaina Kerkyra and Epidauros swear oaths to the Divine Marriage [Cities will be unhappy but Epulian League oath will be preserved].
[X] [Lands] Grant additional lands to Melaina Kerkyra and Epidauros [Both cities will be granted new lands by Eretria and grow in population, both will be very happy].

"Fellow citizens, is Eretria not a pious city? Is Eretria not the city of a generous people?

Piety and generosity are the cornerstones of our good fortunes and our prosperity. These principles have served us well in the past by earning us both the favour of Divine Olympos, and the goodwill and respect of our neighbours. So long as we do not abandon them, they shall serve us well in future.

Generosity demands that we do not attempt to steal the divine Oracle of Kymai for the glorification of Eretria. To do so would be to exploit the weakness of a friend and deprive them of their most precious treasure. It also the generous thing to extend forgiveness to the former oligarchs of Kymai, for did our own aristocrats too not learn the virtues of humility and public service in time? If they are willing to donate to their city, we must grant them a chance to prove it. Lastly, it is generous and correct to let our new League members have their own chance for prosperity, or we are not a paternal father to our League.

Piety demands that we honour the Divine Union of our Patrons Apollon and Athene, in all things, just as they have honoured and looked after us in our recent fortunes. If a great people like Nea Kymai are willing to see the glory of the Union, and an Oracle as prestigious as the Sibly of Kymai is willing to write it into sacred prophecy, then it would be impious not to take this opportunity to spread the worship of the Divine Marriage. Likewise, we cannot dilute the sacred oaths of the Epulian League; we must be proud of the oaths to Apollon and Athene. The generous land grants we are offering will allay any confusion or ill will, and in time they too will come to celebrate the divine union.

Generosity and piety, these must walk hand in hand in all our undertakings, just as noble Apollon and wise Athene walk hand in hand as they bless Eretria and her ventures.

So speaks Arktos, son of Arktos Arkadios."
 
[X] [Oligarchs] Kymai must be made anew and bury old hatreds [+400 Kymaians go to Nea Kymai, city may have more wealth and political conflict in early years].
[X] [Prophecy] A Sapling of Wood, growing in a primordial forest looming over waves lashing the crags of a rocky coast [+1000 Kymaians go to Nea Kymai, Sibyl will go Nea Kymai, Nea Kymai will become a new center of the Divine Marriage].
[X] [Oaths] Make Melaina Kerkyra and Epidauros swear oaths to the Divine Marriage [Cities will be unhappy but Epulian League oath will be preserved].
[X] [Lands] Grant additional lands to Melaina Kerkyra and Epidauros [Both cities will be granted new lands by Eretria and grow in population, both will be very happy].

It actively hurts to vote to not steal Kymai's oracle.
 
The route I'd prefer for the Dauni is we take the two cities eager to come under our hegemony, and invest in the saltworks. I'd suspect a combination of the prospect of facing Epulia with his own forces suddenly diminished by a quarter, and us already with footholds on his side of the river would be rather daunting, in concert with his vassal cities being unlikely to be fanatical about going to war to ensure their fellow Dauni cities obey the will of the King at all times.
It's then just a case of letting the same process that occurred with the Messapii and Peuketti happen, with the "free" Dauni seeing how much more the vassal Dauni prosper under our hand.

If we leave the Dauni partially free, I would be worried about them destroying whatever Saltworks we build at Salpai. They managed to destroy whatever the Dauni previously used and we're going to massively expand the salt trade. They could destroy whatever we build and that costs us a significant investment on top of everything else.

The most significant parts of an ancient saltworks are vulnerable, however. They're stone 'trays' cut into the edges of the lake. Water is allowed to occasionally flow into the trays and then evaporates under the sun. That's not easy to break unless you're willing to waste tools and manpower to literally smash the ground. The supporting buildings and transportation infrastructure, that they can likely break.

Construction of the harbor of Byssos continues apace. It shall truly be an extraordinary harbor, and in fact I have been able to organize a deepening of the harbor in certain areas that shall expand its capacity even further (1d20+3=17, +5 Trade route capacity in finished Byssos Harbor).

Yes! Score!

However, I would also advise that citizens avoid the work camps during the summer months, as it has been reported that there are outbreaks of disease among the workmen due to what I am told by our esteemed physicians is an outbreak of blood imbalance brought upon by the heat.

This I am concerned by. Given how the workers are likely working at the waterline and becoming sick there, it's likely related to the fact that we do not currently have sewers to control disease. I think that building them is becoming more and more pressing.

There is movement among the Dauni, however, as it is rumored that King Ausculos is seeking to reconcile the cities of Herdonia and Salapia by allowing trade with the Eretrians once more, though little has come of this yet.

I think our window for the Dauni is going to start closing. Ausculos has realized that he can't force Herdonia and Salapia into line by force, instead he's going to compromise with them. If he does, that may be enough that it becomes impossible for us to stir up a rebellion as a pretext for subjugating the Dauni.

In Canosa, an Eretrian merchant witnessed a group of Peuketii farmers murdered for slaughtering a nobleman's ox. A most peculiar sight, though one that we have been told by Gorgas has been unfortunately commonplace as the common rabble has grown very excitable as of late...I will embark to investigate this next year when we embark to the Messapii. I have no instinct for such things, but it provides me the impression of grave unhappiness among the people in the Peuketii lands, much unlike that which was reported by Mnemnon years ago. We are unfortunately heavily reliant upon the barbaroi to report on their own affairs, a policy of kindness that clearly has its drawbacks.

Depending on how this blows up, we may have the option to increase oversight of the Peuketii or strengthen our hold on them otherwise. There's an obvious break here between the Hellenized Elites and the common folk. If the Peuketii nobles begin to sit unsteadily, then that means they become more reliant on us. Of course, a weak, internally divided vassal is one that's less effective.

[X] [Motion] Leander's Amendment. The Xenoparakletor will have two deputies explicitly subordinate to them drawn from the two losing candidates.
[X] [Missions] Flexible diplomacy prioritizing breadth and the ability to address multiple issues over focus. [2 missions from winning Demos, then ability to choose 1 more from the losing slates per term].
[X] [Oligarchs] Kymai must be made anew and bury old hatreds [+400 Kymaians go to Nea Kymai, city may have more wealth and political conflict in early years].
[X] [Prophecy] A Sapling of Wood, growing in a primordial forest looming over waves lashing the crags of a rocky coast [+1000 Kymaians go to Nea Kymai, Sibyl will go Nea Kymai, Nea Kymai will become a new center of the Divine Marriage].
[X] [Oaths] Make Melaina Kerkyra and Epidauros swear oaths to the Divine Marriage [Cities will be unhappy but Epulian League oath will be preserved].
[X] [Lands] Grant additional lands to Melaina Kerkyra and Epidauros [Both cities will be granted new lands by Eretria and grow in population, both will be very happy].
 
''Many momentous decisions are to be taken by us, my fellow Eretrians, both at home and abroad, regarding Kimai as well as the organisation of our league.

On the matter of the Xenopralector, I stand with Phokion motion as it allow a partnership like the one between Memnon and Obander to be replicated in the future with even more fruitfull results while not risking two mens ill-made to work with each other to be forced to do so. In Eretria arete is to put the well being of the city before individual ambitions and I have fate xenopralectors of the future will bring mens of the other Demos to serve when Eretria welfare demand it.

I also believe that the Eklesia must conserve the right to choose a motion among the platform of the loosing candidates. Will the demes react to a crisis, aye? But will they have the foresight to prevent it if the crisis at hand is outside of their sphere of interests, to nip the threat in the bud? Perhaps they would but they have often not do so in the past and therefore assuming they would do so in the future would be putting Eretria at risk.''


[X] [Motion] Phokion's Amendment. The Xenoparakletor will have one deputy chosen at their leisure and approved by the Popular Tribunal.
[X] [Missions] Flexible diplomacy prioritizing breadth and the ability to address multiple issues over focus. [2 missions from winning Demos, then ability to choose 1 more from the losing slates per term].

''As to Melania Kerkyra and Epidauros, I say let them have the land. Their demands are reasonable and we will thus show the benefices of Eretrian protection to those cities of the Adriatic who might join us. They must, however, respect the oath of the league like all of its members.''

[X] [Oaths] Make Melaina Kerkyra and Epidauros swear oaths to the Divine Marriage [Cities will be unhappy but Epulian League oath will be preserved].
[X] [Lands] Grant additional lands to Melaina Kerkyra and Epidauros [Both cities will be granted new lands by Eretria and grow in population, both will be very happy].

''Concerning Kimay I say let the former oligarchs come to the new city, they will provide it with wealth and might play an important role in its commercial fortunes. As they know very well that Eretria will not stand for a coup should they attempt to regain their old power by violence they will not endavour to do so, no matter their beliefs.''

[X] [Oligarchs] Kymai must be made anew and bury old hatreds [+400 Kymaians go to Nea Kymai, city may have more wealth and political conflict in early years].

''And now I come to the greatest matter at hand: the destination of the pytia of Kimai. Some have charged those believing that the Pytia should come to Eretria with impiety and greed, stating that they brought base considerations to a holy matter and that they sought to take advantage of Kimai distress. To them I would say was it not the gods themselves who, through the intermediary of the Sybil, have given to the Eklesia of Eretria the burden to decide the destination of the Sybil? Why would the gods have done so if not to assist Eretria?

Let us also dispense with the idea that having the Sybil follow the Kimaians will see Hellas itself embrace the Divine Marriage in mass for while it would, indeed, be a fine thing to behold Hellas has is own oracles and temples, Delphoi first among them, and seldom come to the Sybil.

It might be, it is true, of assistance in ensuring that all of our colonies of the league come to embrass the Divine Marriage but I have faith it will come to pass nevertheless, as ties of all nature will only bring them closer to Eretria. In any event, appart from Melania Kerkyra and Epidauros, who will come to embrace the Divine Mariage when they will know it better, all of our present allies of the league have sworn by it without incidents and Kimai laudable devotion to the Sybil will naturally see it trend toward it since she has recognised its truth.

No, it is in Eretria where the oracle can best serve both the Divine Mariage and Eretria, where it can enhance the prestige of the city and bring those sicilians and italiotes coming to visit into the fold.''

[X] [Prophecy] A Tree of Stone, growing in a newly planted grove upon the ashes of ancient monuments [-250 Kymaians go to Nea Kymai, -70 talents, Sibyl will go to Eretria Eskhata, Eretria Eskhata will gain an oracle and cultural influence].

So spoke Nikephoros the Hoplite, son of Lysandros.
 
OOC, I would rather the Oracle be in Nea Kymai for a simple reason: as neither Eretria nor Nea Kymai are sitting atop a massive and uneasily dormant volcanic caldera, I expect that any local cave systems aren't going to have the right ingredients to keep the Oracle going like it did back home. When people figure out that the Oracle doesn't work anymore, I'd rather that happen in a different city than the one we're playing as.
 
OOC, I would rather the Oracle be in Nea Kymai for a simple reason: as neither Eretria nor Nea Kymai are sitting atop a massive and uneasily dormant volcanic caldera, I expect that any local cave systems aren't going to have the right ingredients to keep the Oracle going like it did back home. When people figure out that the Oracle doesn't work anymore, I'd rather that happen in a different city than the one we're playing as.
What do you mean?
 
Speaking of generosity and how our league relies on Vassal Levies

@Cetashwayo I was thinking. For our new Adriatic holdings we mainly want them for the trade income to enrich us and their trireme levies to help us fight pirates and Corinth. But of course, building a merchant fleet and a military fleet is expensive and time consuming, as our own experiences in the past proved. At the same time training experienced rowers is also time and money consuming.

As it stands, in our league, Eretria seems to be the best suited to build up new ships. Especially one our harbor expansion completes, which will open up more space. And the fact that we will need to train a stupidly huge amount of new rowers for our new ships.

With that in mind I have two proposals.

1. Once our fleet and harbor expansion is finished, turn Eretrian Shipbuilders into an extension of the Linos Law. Any of the Epulian/Adriatic colonies that wishes to have a military and merchant fleet suited for their size need only to send a representative to talk with us and we will help them construct said ships now at a price. Hopefully this can be a engine of growth as it allows our Adriatic holdings to come online much sooner both in trade and in force projection and potentially give us a new income stream.

2. Open up our the rower training of our navy to those in the new holdings who wishes to be the foundation of their native fleets. Like the previous idea this is to help boost the time for their fleets to come online. But at the same time its also to create a cultural unity within the league centered on our navies, who will receive Eretrian influence. And also even more pragmatically, if the league rowers are trained in the same manner as Eretrian Rowers, coordination in naval warfare will probably improve.

What do you think? Doable?
 
Speaking of generosity and how our league relies on Vassal Levies

@Cetashwayo I was thinking. For our new Adriatic holdings we mainly want them for the trade income to enrich us and their trireme levies to help us fight pirates and Corinth. But of course, building a merchant fleet and a military fleet is expensive and time consuming, as our own experiences in the past proved. At the same time training experienced rowers is also time and money consuming.

As it stands, in our league, Eretria seems to be the best suited to build up new ships. Especially one our harbor expansion completes, which will open up more space. And the fact that we will need to train a stupidly huge amount of new rowers for our new ships.

With that in mind I have two proposals.

1. Once our fleet and harbor expansion is finished, turn Eretrian Shipbuilders into an extension of the Linos Law. Any of the Epulian/Adriatic colonies that wishes to have a military and merchant fleet suited for their size need only to send a representative to talk with us and we will help them construct said ships now at a price. Hopefully this can be a engine of growth as it allows our Adriatic holdings to come online much sooner both in trade and in force projection and potentially give us a new income stream.

2. Open up our the rower training of our navy to those in the new holdings who wishes to be the foundation of their native fleets. Like the previous idea this is to help boost the time for their fleets to come online. But at the same time its also to create a cultural unity within the league centered on our navies, who will receive Eretrian influence. And also even more pragmatically, if the league rowers are trained in the same manner as Eretrian Rowers, coordination in naval warfare will probably improve.

What do you think? Doable?

2 is subtle and devious, but might be a touch too modern for where we are.

I'd suggest something like sending rowers to help train League fleets; opening our boat festival to rowers throughout the League; and staging mock trireme battles with mixed captains and crews, so that the major League captains all have an opportunity to meet each other and learn how to work together.
 
2 is subtle and devious, but might be a touch too modern for where we are.

I'd suggest something like sending rowers to help train League fleets; opening our boat festival to rowers throughout the League; and staging mock trireme battles with mixed captains and crews, so that the major League captains all have an opportunity to meet each other and learn how to work together.
Hence why I am not making these a user proposition just yet.
 
Some volcanic gases can cause hallucinations. There's also underground geothermal springs to add atmosphere. Neither of these, as far as I know, are things likely to be found in Eretria or where we're putting Nea Kymai.

EDIT: As far as rowing, why not make it a competition at our Epulian Games, along with other maritime pursuits like swimming and sailing?
 
Last edited:
I love cultural influence but maybe divine maarriage is more important here?

I still see the benefit of having the god voice to guide our citizen.
 
Speaking of generosity and how our league relies on Vassal Levies

@Cetashwayo I was thinking. For our new Adriatic holdings we mainly want them for the trade income to enrich us and their trireme levies to help us fight pirates and Corinth. But of course, building a merchant fleet and a military fleet is expensive and time consuming, as our own experiences in the past proved. At the same time training experienced rowers is also time and money consuming.

As it stands, in our league, Eretria seems to be the best suited to build up new ships. Especially one our harbor expansion completes, which will open up more space. And the fact that we will need to train a stupidly huge amount of new rowers for our new ships.

With that in mind I have two proposals.

1. Once our fleet and harbor expansion is finished, turn Eretrian Shipbuilders into an extension of the Linos Law. Any of the Epulian/Adriatic colonies that wishes to have a military and merchant fleet suited for their size need only to send a representative to talk with us and we will help them construct said ships now at a price. Hopefully this can be a engine of growth as it allows our Adriatic holdings to come online much sooner both in trade and in force projection and potentially give us a new income stream.

2. Open up our the rower training of our navy to those in the new holdings who wishes to be the foundation of their native fleets. Like the previous idea this is to help boost the time for their fleets to come online. But at the same time its also to create a cultural unity within the league centered on our navies, who will receive Eretrian influence. And also even more pragmatically, if the league rowers are trained in the same manner as Eretrian Rowers, coordination in naval warfare will probably improve.

What do you think? Doable?
They would still use the old trireme design that requires 170 people rather than 150 on account of that they don't have super-experienced rowers, right? Just spitballing here, but perhaps we could create some sort of program where we supply them a small number of our elite rowers to make up the difference in that threshold, 20 per ship they create until such time they feel confident enough in the skill of their rowers to adopt our model. It could get them to start a navy a bit earlier and build maybe a few more ships since they'd be able to stretch their numbers a bit further, we'd have some fine examples to bring their tradition up to par sooner and additionally we'd have a network of rowers based all throughout the league who would know what all is going on in those cities. All for not that much of a reduction of our forces, supporting the development of 7.5 league ships for every one of ours that we lose.

Though we're probably going to need to be training rowers ourselves right now with the giant naval expansion.
 
Last edited:
OOC, I would rather the Oracle be in Nea Kymai for a simple reason: as neither Eretria nor Nea Kymai are sitting atop a massive and uneasily dormant volcanic caldera, I expect that any local cave systems aren't going to have the right ingredients to keep the Oracle going like it did back home. When people figure out that the Oracle doesn't work anymore, I'd rather that happen in a different city than the one we're playing as.

Good catch.

The cynic in me is wondering if she's very much aware that her mystical allure will thin and is happy to hitch onto the divine marriage regardless of location to sure her authority up.

Been reading up on caves of cumae and apparently dead birds over gas seams, hallucinations, and underground rolling water explained as the river Styx were the advantages. The area was reasonably looked at as an entrance to the underworld.

I can see her shoring up her influence because of this IC.
 
[X] [Motion]
Phokion's Amendment.
The Xenoparakletor will have one deputy chosen at their leisure and approved by the Popular Tribunal.
[X] [Missions] Flexible diplomacy prioritizing breadth and the ability to address multiple issues over focus. [2 missions from winning Demos, then ability to choose 1 more from the losing slates per term].
[X] [Oligarchs] Kymai must be made anew and bury old hatreds [+400 Kymaians go to Nea Kymai, city may have more wealth and political conflict in early years].
[X] [Prophecy] A Sapling of Wood, growing in a primordial forest looming over waves lashing the crags of a rocky coast [+1000 Kymaians go to Nea Kymai, Sibyl will go Nea Kymai, Nea Kymai will become a new center of the Divine Marriage].
[X] [Oaths] Make Melaina Kerkyra and Epidauros swear oaths to the Divine Marriage [Cities will be unhappy but Epulian League oath will be preserved].
[X] [Lands] Grant additional lands to Melaina Kerkyra and Epidauros [Both cities will be granted new lands by Eretria and grow in population, both will be very happy].
 
Last edited:
[X] [Motion] Phokion's Amendment. The Xenoparakletor will have one deputy chosen at their leisure and approved by the Popular Tribunal.
[X] [Missions] Flexible diplomacy prioritizing breadth and the ability to address multiple issues over focus. [2 missions from winning Demos, then ability to choose 1 more from the losing slates per term].
[X] [Oligarchs] Kymai must be made anew and bury old hatreds [+400 Kymaians go to Nea Kymai, city may have more wealth and political conflict in early years].
[X] [Prophecy] A Sapling of Wood, growing in a primordial forest looming over waves lashing the crags of a rocky coast [+1000 Kymaians go to Nea Kymai, Sibyl will go Nea Kymai, Nea Kymai will become a new center of the Divine Marriage].
[X] [Oaths] Make Melaina Kerkyra and Epidauros swear oaths to the Divine Marriage [Cities will be unhappy but Epulian League oath will be preserved].
[X] [Lands] Grant additional lands to Melaina Kerkyra and Epidauros [Both cities will be granted new lands by Eretria and grow in population, both will be very happy].
 
Also:
If Ausculos is clever, he might try to manoeuvre himself into a situation more similar to King Arthias, making himself a middleman for access to Dauni trade. This will give him money and time, and we'd have to deal with him.
There is movement among the Dauni, however, as it is rumored that King Ausculos is seeking to reconcile the cities of Herdonia and Salapia by allowing trade with the Eretrians once more, though little has come of this yet.

 
[X] [Motion] Phokion's Amendment. The Xenoparakletor will have one deputy chosen at their leisure and approved by the Popular Tribunal.
[X] [Missions] Flexible diplomacy prioritizing breadth and the ability to address multiple issues over focus. [2 missions from winning Demos, then ability to choose 1 more from the losing slates per term].
[X] [Oligarchs] Kymai must be made anew and bury old hatreds [+400 Kymaians go to Nea Kymai, city may have more wealth and political conflict in early years].
[X] [Prophecy] A Tree of Stone, growing in a newly planted grove upon the ashes of ancient monuments [-250 Kymaians go to Nea Kymai, -70 talents, Sibyl will go to Eretria Eskhata, Eretria Eskhata will gain an oracle and cultural influence].
[X] [Oaths] Make Melaina Kerkyra and Epidauros swear oaths to the Divine Marriage [Cities will be unhappy but Epulian League oath will be preserved].
[X] [Lands] Grant additional lands to Melaina Kerkyra and Epidauros [Both cities will be granted new lands by Eretria and grow in population, both will be very happy].


Maybe if we move Oracle here, some Kymaians will actually move to Eretria?
 
[X] [Prophecy] A Sapling of Wood, growing in a primordial forest looming over waves lashing the crags of a rocky coast [+1000 Kymaians go to Nea Kymai, Sibyl will go Nea Kymai, Nea Kymai will become a new center of the Divine Marriage].

"Much has already been spoken in the assembly, and we are truly blessed by the gods for such peace and prosperity. Since most of the choices this year have found broad support, I will keep myself to one aspect of the one issue that seems to be the most contentious.
We seem to be intent on keeping the Divine Marriage as a cultural cornerstone of our "Epulian" League. Since I wish to extend said league to cover at least some of the remaining southern Adriatic Greeks in future, making its worship more prominent on the Illyrian shore is a crucial first step in that direction. Furthermore, I see the Divine Marriage less as a tool of Eretrian influence abroad and more as a cultural force. One that unites us with our closest Greek neighbors and has the potential to allow for the development of an unique Epulian/Adriatic Greek identity. The creation of a new cultural center, which will kickstart the Divine Marriage abroad, is worth opening up the cult to non-Eretrian, but friendly, interests. I believe that until we find the time to continue building up the cultural aspects of Eretria, our position of economic and military dominance in the region should prove enough to ensure our influence over an all the more closely linked League.
So notes Gregorios, son of Alexios."

OOC: As much as I'd love to see more of Cetashwayo's fascinating takes on auguries, I also worry a bit about their influence on gameplay/voting. The 345OL election augury in favour of a new temple, which basically ensured an Antipatrid victory, comes to mind. While we have seen that the QM keeps most of the prophecies more ambiguous than that and questions ala "@QM What does the Pythia think about vote X and vote Y" would be amusing at first. I personally worry whether the resulting discussion would be more about semantics than issues and that we might all quickly grow tired of it.
 
Last edited:
[X] [Motion] Phokion's Amendment. The Xenoparakletor will have one deputy chosen at their leisure and approved by the Popular Tribunal.
[X] [Missions] Flexible diplomacy prioritizing breadth and the ability to address multiple issues over focus. [2 missions from winning Demos, then ability to choose 1 more from the losing slates per term].
[X] [Oligarchs] Kymai must be made anew and bury old hatreds [+400 Kymaians go to Nea Kymai, city may have more wealth and political conflict in early years].
[X] [Prophecy] A Sapling of Wood, growing in a primordial forest looming over waves lashing the crags of a rocky coast [+1000 Kymaians go to Nea Kymai, Sibyl will go Nea Kymai, Nea Kymai will become a new center of the Divine Marriage].
[X] [Oaths] Allow them to swear oaths to Zeus Olympios instead [Cities will be happy but Epulian League Oath will be muddled].
[X] [Lands] We will keep the land to allot to Kymai and other new colonies [+250 more Kymaians will move to Nea Kymai, Epidauros and Melaina Kerkyra will remain stagnant but the land will be open for other new colonies].

I, Hermesdora Eretriazenis the Psiloi, have come here now to cast my vote!

Regarding the matter of the xenoparakletor, I vote for a deputy chosen at their leisure! Do you know why, my fellow citizens?! Because this way we are assured to have a constant stream of new bloods, of younger men being trained in the arts of the xenoparakletor! While with the other proposal, it would only end up with one old man bringing along two other old men with him on his working trips until the day they die!

For our missions, I am satisfied with the current arrangement of two issues from the winning Demos and a mission from the losing slates! There is no need to change it because it has served us well in the past years! And if the xenoparakletor complains about tiredness from the journey?! That is what all the younger men who had been trained in the xenoparakletor arts are for! To assist with the journey, go as advance parties, multiple parties going to multiple places at the same time to arrange the visits!

On the matter of the Kymaian Oligarchs I vote to let them go to Nea Kymai! For I am assured that the Kymaian Citizens have their Oligarchs under control with the assistance of the Sybil! And because Nea Kymai would need the money!

On the matter of the prophecy of the Sybil of Nea Kymai, I vote that we let her go to Nea Kymai! For Nea Kymai to remain peaceful, and because it would be unseemly to take what belongs to our relatives!

On the matter of Oaths, we let Epidauros and Melaina Kerkyra swear oaths to Zeus Olympios instead in exchange for not giving them more lands! Huh, that would teach them to look down at the Divine Marriage!

I have cast my vote, and shall now return home! To my wife and my five month old twins! Yes, I have twin sons! Hahaha! I'm so lucky, right?!

Hahaha!

Bryzos' Thermopolion! Here in Eretria's Port District and in Egnatia under my sister Artemisdora and her husband Trigonoxo! Come and eat at us!

Adhoc vote count started by Admiral Skippy on Jul 8, 2019 at 7:53 AM, finished with 6348 posts and 67 votes.
 
Last edited:
Citizens of Eretria, I come to speak of you on a single issue.

It speaks wonderfully for the virtue of the city and its demokratia that this year we are mostly united in consensus. With only one outstanding issue dividing the member of the Assemblies, does that not say something to the unity of polis and the surety of its leadership? Yet, even with that surety, that does not change the fact that the one divisive issue, is a weighty one indeed, for it does not just deal with the direction the polis will take in the future, but that of its enduring legacy, for the Sibyl of Kymai speaks of a divine prophecy given by the gods. And for that, I believe this measure requires more than just shallow attention.

Phokion, as always, is a very persuasive and eloquent speaker. However, here in this case, I fear that his arguments are too flighty, with his rhetoric and rationale being poor as he relies too much on pathos to state his case. In his rhetoric he speaks of the Sibyl as something to inherit, when that is the furthest from the truth. For does the Sibyl truly belong to the Kymaians? I say nay, as while the Kymaians may have defended and nurtured her, that was only right for that was their duty as bequeathed by the gods, as she was Apollon's gift to them. Now, with the Oscans at the walls of Kymai, their army having defeated the Kymaians in the field, can it not be said that the favor of Apollon and Athene has left them? Indeed, while some would speak to the moral travesty that would occur if we took in the Sibyl of Kymai, and how it was against the order of the world, I believe that they should well remember that this discussion is only happening not because of any greed or hubris on our part, but because the Sibyl of Kymai approached wise Obander herself, telling him of the divine prophecies and mysteries that drove her to speak of us. Considering that the order of the world is decided by the gods themselves upon Olympos, can we truly say that it is against their will when they are letting such a weighty matter be decided by our mortal hands? I say nay, of course not. For it was likely in our piety, having constructed and consecrated such magnificent structures to their name, and also our beneficence, in evacuating the Kymaians from their situation, that we are being given this choice and say in the matter at all.

When it comes to the argument of how the Sibyl of Kymai establishing herself within Nea Kymai would benefit the Divine Marriage, and thus Eretria itself, I find the argument lacking for a number of reasons. The first issue I have with it, is the inherent assumption that Eretria Eshkata is incapable of spreading the culture and institution of the Divine Marriage without the Sibyl being established within Nea Kymai. I am appalled by such defeatism, for while it is true that most cultured Hellenes consider Eretria's culture mediocre at best, that does not mean that it shall always be so. Indeed, even though Eretria's current sum cultural output is mostly all the work of one playwright, that of Alexis, son of Kallias Aristeides, I would like to imagine that we, the citizens of this fair city, are doing our fair share to correct this path. For have we not properly honored the gods by giving them true Temples where the faithful can worship? Indeed, I feel it worthwhile to remember that Eretria Eshkata is still a young polis in the grand scheme of things, our foundations not as well set as those of say Korinthos, Thebai, or Athenai. That is why, even though we have had little success in exporting our culture and showing everyone the truth regarding the Divine Marriage, that does not mean that will always be so and that it is not worthwhile to attempt to do now.

The second issue I have the argument that the Sibyl of Kymai is best suited for Nea Kymai is the belief that the only way to spread the idea of the Divine Marriage within the Adriatic is through placing her there. While it is true that having such a cultural icon be present within Nea Kymai will surely help the spread of the Divine Marriage due to geography alone, I feel that many are forgetting that the Sibyl's influence is most strong in Italia. While the Adriatic is currently where we derive our wealth, I believe it would wise not to forget that it is now Italia and Epulia that we call home. It is widely known that the Sibyl of Kymai is renowned throughout Italia and Sikelia, where even swamp barbaroi known of her, and while her divine connection will no doubt be present within Nea Kymai, I fear that her reputation would not be best used in an area where she is not as well known. With such a powerful legacy in Italia, would it not be better for us if the Sibyl of Kymai remained in the region, so that her prophecies can aid us, and her influence could be used to sway all around us? The Eretria of today is not the Eretria of the past. Our history of cultural irrelevance is a product of different, more desperate time, and now with our foundations firmly set I do not believe that we need the Sibyl being closer to our Adriatic colonies to ensure the spread of the Divine Marriage. While it will no doubt be more difficult, I believe like all others, that the challenge of spreading our culture is one that we can surmount, so that one day Eretria's may have dozens of Alexis', but that step begins with establishing Eretria as a city of cultural note in the first place. If we wish to direct the cultural destiny of Eretria, I believe we are best suited to do so at its reins.

So says Alkaios son of Kleitos.

Adhoc vote count started by Japanime on Jul 8, 2019 at 2:15 PM, finished with 6376 posts and 70 votes.
 
OOC, I would rather the Oracle be in Nea Kymai for a simple reason: as neither Eretria nor Nea Kymai are sitting atop a massive and uneasily dormant volcanic caldera, I expect that any local cave systems aren't going to have the right ingredients to keep the Oracle going like it did back home. When people figure out that the Oracle doesn't work anymore, I'd rather that happen in a different city than the one we're playing as.
I mean, @Cetashwayo can confirm but I would expect that if it was indeed how the Oracle operated in Kimai (yes, that was likely part of the whole thing in Delphi but I doubt all oracles depended on volcanic fumes) they would simply switch to an ''artificial'' way of inducing halucinations rather then a ''natural'' one. I.e instead of a volcano the fumes would be produced by burning drugs rather then volcanic caldera.

As to how the Sybil could play with our OOC decision I would expect any prediction she would to be volountarely open to conflicting interpretations, just like RL oracles where know to do. Her advice to the Kimaians is, in fact, a pretty good exemple of that: ''The people of Kimai will survive'' could both mean that the city will pull-it through or that the people will survive precisely because they would accept Eretria offer. If whatever interprétations peoples go with doesn't end up coming to pass the Oracle can always say the other one was right...

Finally, I must admit that the whole argument that putting the Oracle in Nea Kimai will somehow get Greece itself to embrace the Divine Mariage a bit odd, to say the least. For one the Oracle was mainly popular in Italy and in Sicily, with only little cultural and religious pull in Greece itself, if any. Moreover, Eretria itself is both geographically closer to Greece and has more direct contact with it then Nea Kimai is likely to have so if the Oracle is to actually somehow pull that off its ods would be better in Eretria then in Nea Kimai.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top