Just reviewed a really good article on Spartan manpower. Spartans only had 2,251 Spartiates (the elite leisure class) in 418 BCE, and only around 7,774 Adult Male Freemen that could be conscripted. That's not a lot.
 
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Settle them in the new Illyrian colonies [+600 settlers in primary Illyrian colony, +200 in second Illyrian colony].
[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].
 
The Liturgy of Iskandar Xanatos

In the ekklesia it was another day of very spirited debates and humorous attempts of oration by very enthusiastic men of Eretria Eskhata.

So many ideas and votes were spread around, as citizens of all strata debated what to do next in the issue of the exiled citizens of Lykai, the colonial issue of the islands now that the spectre of the Liburnian pirates were gone.

For now.

There was a sentiment of quiet pride throughout the city, and none more so given to the worthy men of the psilois, ekdromoi, and the naval rowers that made such battles against the barbaroi truly decisive and bloody, though there were some hiccups here and there by the actions of Irenaeous and the attempt to crucify some scum.

But in this moment Iskandar son of Xanatos, of the Great and Good of Eretria came to the assembly on his finest raiment, with a group of oiled and muscular lifters (and loyal retainers of his noble family) while he walked with dignity and grace, carrying in his hands a pole wrapped in cloth.

When his rock was settled, a thing of beauty carved from the finest sculptors of the city, and made to look like a prow of a ship he climbed on it and began his oration.

"Friends, Eretrians, countrymen. Lend me your ears! I have come not to add more debate, but speak of better things."

With a theatrical sweep of his head towards the ekklesia he raised his chin and continued. "We must thank the gods Poseidon, Nike, and the Divine Couple for another clear and present victory over the Liburnians whose merciless and ravenous pirates have long been a scourge to any civilised Hellene and savage barbaroi alike in their depredations. Praise be to them!"

"And I had too, participated in that glorious war to prove our mettle and keep my promise on what I have talked for hours in this assembly: to kill all, burn all, and destroy all pirates. And by Nike and Poseidon how great was our victory there and how blessed our triremes were to dance amongst the waves, bringing death and destruction to the pentekontors that outnumbered US!"

Iskandar takes a deep breath, his hands tightening on the wrapped pole.

"Liburnia is almost destroyed. And having the islands that were former pirate hideouts in our hands will strangle the pirates to limit themselves should they come back inevitably in a generation or two. And it gladdens my heart that those hideouts of scum and villainy are now right and proper Hellenic colonies."

"But enough of that! I had promised to you a liturgy and one that I shall deliver on. This had been a dream that gripped me since we have started the construction of the Divine Hill and the war against the Tarentines... How time flies so quickly. It took me some time to gather all of the resources and find the appropriate persons that could be sworn to secrecy but it is done. Behold!"

And with a flourish Iskandar pulled away the rope that bind the whole cloth, falling away to reveal his masterpiece to the entire citizenry.

It was a standard of battle with a banner. But it was no ordinary standard that Iskandar made for the city.

An eagle with its wings outstretched greeted the assembly, made of pure gold that Iskandar was able to take from the loot of Taras, standing over a burnished iron stand. And it stood over seven feet tall, its staff made from the finest cedar and gilded with gold with an iron point at the lower end to fix it on the ground.

Perhaps the most striking was banner itself, a cloth dyed so red as to evoke crimson blood to the viewers, contrasted sharply by the golden figures of the Divine Athena and Apollo themselves standing together in equal height and smiling, surrounded by symbols of Nike.

And holding hands.

Iskandar smiled. "This is my liturgy and my expression of piety to the gods, and I call this the Banner of Promised Victory. In this I honour the greatest gods of Eretria. The King of all Gods Zeus stands above all, whose greatest representation is the eagle. Nike has brought us victory, not by brute force but by tactics and strategy, but she could only do this by the blessing of the Divine Couple, whose hands in union have created our fair city that continues to prosper."

The banner flutters in the wind.

"This I gift the banner to our city, kept in reserve in peace, and in times of war let out and held aloft in pride by the best of our soldiers and it inspires us to greatness and keep our army galvanised with the promise of victory."

A/N: @Cetashwayo I made a legionary standard for Eretria! :D
 
If you're worried about the Venetian colony growing to eclipse Eretria, then that's an argument that we shouldn't colonize at all. If they're settled by an initial population of 2,000 or 10,000, it doesn't change the fact that they will continuously grow into the future. It'll take a century instead of decades for them to grow large with a smaller initial population, but they will grow eventually.
As someone who agrees with Deadly Snark's apprehension, it's not a Venetian colony that worries me, it's a Venetian Kymai. There's a difference between settling the Venetian lagoon with Eretrians and resettling Kymai in the Venetian lagoon. A colony of Eretrians has ties to it's mother polis beyond just gratefulness at getting land, something that a resettled Kymai does not share. Even a colony of people from the Epulian League would be better than having a foreign settlement at such a strategic location.
 
Just reviewed a really good article on Spartan manpower. Spartans only had 2,251 Spartiates (the elite leisure class) in 418 BCE, and only around 7,774 Adult Male Freemen that could be conscripted. That's not a lot.

I read that they drew men from the Spartiates for the Kryptaeia.
So they went to war and kept the helots in check from this small pool.

Amazing.

I guess these conscripts are the Perioeci.
 
As someone who agrees with Deadly Snark's apprehension, it's not a Venetian colony that worries me, it's a Venetian Kymai. There's a difference between settling the Venetian lagoon with Eretrians and resettling Kymai in the Venetian lagoon. A colony of Eretrians has ties to it's mother polis beyond just gratefulness at getting land, something that a resettled Kymai does not share. Even a colony of people from the Epulian League would be better than having a foreign settlement at such a strategic location.
I reiterate that Massalia and its fellow Greek poleis would be a better spot for the Kymaian refugees to resettle. No competition with our own burgeoning empire, shores up the most isolated part of the Hellenic world, and gives us inroads into the trading networks of Gaul.
 
Just reviewed a really good article on Spartan manpower. Spartans only had 2,251 Spartiates (the elite leisure class) in 418 BCE, and only around 7,774 Adult Male Freemen that could be conscripted. That's not a lot.
Huh. So Sphacteria saw around 5% of the Spartiates alive taken captive.

Come to think of it, that really does put into perspective how big a loss those 300 Spartans who died at Thermopylae must have been.
 
Huh. So Sphacteria saw around 5% of the Spartiates alive taken captive.

Come to think of it, that really does put into perspective how big a loss those 300 Spartans who died at Thermopylae must have been.

Actually, while it did hurt, the Spartans had a much larger population in the Persian Wars. They lost as much as 60% of the entire male population from the earthquake in 464 BCE.
 
Aw. So what did the Hellenes use as standards then?

They didn't! The Roman use of standards is pretty special. The Hellenes didn't need standards because most people were neighbors and were organized in battalions of their neighborhood or region, so they'd always know who was with them. The standard is essential to a different military structure.
 
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They didn't! The Roman use of standards is pretty special. The Hellenes didn't need standards because most people were neigbors and were organized in battalions of their neighborhood or region, so they'd always know who was with them. The standard is essential to a different military structure.

*facepalm*

I'll stick to Eretrian theater then.
 
Actually, while it did hurt, the Spartans had a much larger population in the Persian Wars. They lost as much as 60% of the entire male population from the earthquake in 464 BCE.
Why were they so adamant about not replenishing their ranks from members of the Perioeci instead of steadily declining? Those were fellow hoplites from Lakonia that, to my understanding, above the helots.
 
Why were they so adamant about not replenishing their ranks from members of the Perioeci instead of steadily declining? Those were fellow hoplites from Lakonia that, to my understanding, above the helots.

The Periokoi died in the earthquake as well. It seems like they just couldn't demographically recover, and the recovery they did have was wiped out by the Peloponnesian War.
 
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].

[X] [Lykai] Settle them in the new Illyrian colonies [+600 settlers in primary Illyrian colony, +200 in second Illyrian colony].

[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].
 
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].
[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].

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The main change with the ring is that colonies will have more attention put on them by Eretria, they will not be part of the central league, and they will be expected to provide more in levies than before. It would also increase central Eretrian control over its colonies, allowing you to do all sorts of things you couldn't do otherwise, like say, appropriating revenues from the murex (Tyrian dye) trade for yourselves. At the same time, obviously all of this is quite invasive.
Sorry to bring up a post from some time ago, however I wanted a clarification on the underlined part. Does this mean we will never be able to get murex as a luxury trade good? Even if the trade from Ancon to the rest of the Mediterranean eventually flows through Eretria? Or did you mean an another from of revenues, particular to Tyrian dye?
In case it is the former; would the same then apply to the Amber trade, if we were to resettle Kymai in the Venetian Lagoon?
 
Sorry to bring up a post from some time ago, however I wanted a clarification on the underlined part. Does this mean we will never be able to get murex as a luxury trade good? Even if the trade from Ancon to the rest of the Mediterranean eventually flows through Eretria? Or did you mean an another from of revenues, particular to Tyrian dye?
In case it is the former; would the same the apply to the Amber trade, if we were to resettle Kymai in the Venetian Lagoon?

No, but establishing a specific state control over a good is very different than collecting the revenues from your port trade. The luxury good trade route represents the duty on goods entering Eretria and is higher value than staple goods because the percentage duty is higher and there's some attached taxation. But as with a salt monopoly direct control over murex trade entails much higher revenues.
 
Found this little "gem", while rereading the update in the morning:
If the sea wishes to offer Kymai land in the Adriatic as a subject, its people, or part of its people, must first accept. The people of Kymai are proud and may be skeptical of such a proposition if not presented well.
Damn Poseidon, getting the better of Eretria Eskhata's ambitions once more! :V
Well, I hope he has some better examples than Atlantis when presenting his case...
 
"What a victory over our enemies! While not all went according to plan and the barbaroi of the north is harder to deal with than thougth of (probably not a problem with the Etruscans, mind you) the Enetoi turned out as worthy friend in war again. And it is wise for the Athenians to call our ships hawks, although I'm not fond of their interference with the dealings of the West. As Apollon took pity on the grieving father Daedalion, transforming him into a hawk before his death, so our grief over the depredation of pirates turned into resolve and prowess on the sea! Apollon truly blessed our oars that fateful day. But it is also great relief that true-hearted Epiktetos halted the hand of vengeance as we now have to live with our former enemies and turn them into a people we can deal with.

The general calamity of Sikelia is while fortunate for us right now, can lead to great anarchy and I fear that. So while I thank Obander for his work, I ask him and his successors too to be wary when dealing with that island.

But now for more pressing matters. I accept the consensus of this wise assembly regarding the matter of the foremost colony I personally prefer Issa. It will help our trade more with the northern reaches of the sea as a transit point for our ship and we have our allies in the north rather than the centrum of the region. Also, I fear that if we start our colony on an island with too much Liburnian on it, we will have a hard time defend it, if it's needed.

The people of Lykai need to be spread in my opinion. They are a sad and wary people and not without cause. If we use this opportunity to show them that the league's every city is welcoming, we maybe can reconcile them easier and also lessen the chance of a failure with their integration.

And the last and probably most important issue, Kymai. I spent some time before this assembly speaking of the need to act on their behalf and I am more than happy to hear that we are planning to help them. I, personally thank for every proposition presented earlier to ease the pressure on them! We need to consider the matter in haste but throughoutly. We made our situation harder with failing to gain the alliance of Rhegion but we have the means to save at least some of them and I think we shoudl do it!"

[X] [Colony] Issa. The outer island of the Adriatic Dodecanese has fewer Liburnians settled on it and is an excellent transit point for Eretrians crossing the Adriatic [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Issa, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Pharos, -50 pop from Eretria].

[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].

[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].

OOC: What an update!
We need to find something to convince Rhegion to help us. Can they be convinced by offer of help with securing Pithekousai? They will have their port, we will save the city. On the other hand I find it dangerous (and probably unrealistic) to give concessions to a power as Rhegion in the region.It probably threaten the trade as they will monopolize the waterways there and frankly, we can't really offer them much on the western shores. So I'll try to figure something of.

We need to convince Kymai to move. It is possible to save the wealth of the city too? If we, say, offer to save temples with the gods and the public treasury (if they have one) and transef them safely to a new location? Even dedicating a new temple/shrine to them until they have an own?

And while I like the Venetian Kymai proposition, isn't that overstretching our friendship with the Enetoi? One day we convince them to fight a war, next, web ring seven thousand men to their doorstep and stay that they are cool guys, our distant cousins and your new neighbours? It will be easier to convince them to give us a place for a trading outpost that can grow over time and put the Kymaians(?) on the southern liburnian island which we won in war and can protect (or press into submission) more easily. Also, that will quick start our presence there and deny the liburnians the chance of infiltrate back. @Cetashwayo , are the islands even capable to house that many people?

And sorry for using Wikipedia for the myth of Daedalion, I hope it's not false.
 
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