Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Got it. Evacuation it is then (at least for me.)
Magna Graecia: Titanomachia (A City State Quest)
- Thread starter Cetashwayo
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
-
- Tags
- ancient greece alternate history empire builder civ quest democracy gods save us granary management hubris it's an eretrian thing. let lose the weasels of war lithocracy lithocracy is my fetish maximum hellene my big fat greek divine wedding this granary aint gonna fill itself cetash unwinnable
We have never made a habit of military adventurism or singular feats of arms. Nor have we cultivated godlike generals who can go out into enemy territory outnumbered with shoestring logistics, and come home with a larger army than they came back with, all their enemies humbled or defeated. Partly because the latter is a huge threat to a democratic government, inherently.
Eretria wins, as she has always won, through alliances. It is in our ability to communicate, not simply to intimidate, that we have done so exceptionally well.
How will we defeat the Oscans?
We will play to our strengths. We will gather a coalition of the Greek Italiote cities, using our skill at diplomacy and the threat of a very real common enemy. We will amass a large allied army, and we will use our immense Sacred Treasury to provision it if absolutely necessary. Then we will turn the Oscan field armies into a bloody smear on the ground with the overwhelming force of our alliance, and drive the survivors back into the hills.
But to do that? It will take time. It will take work, a lot of work, to build the necessary coalition. It will require the other Italiote Greek cities to appreciate the fact that they are all in danger or stand to lose out greatly, not just the Greeks of the southwestern coast. We haven't laid any of the groundwork yet.
But pulling off a successful and bold rescue expedition under the very noses of the enemy is a very good way to start.
Eretria wins, as she has always won, through alliances. It is in our ability to communicate, not simply to intimidate, that we have done so exceptionally well.
How will we defeat the Oscans?
We will play to our strengths. We will gather a coalition of the Greek Italiote cities, using our skill at diplomacy and the threat of a very real common enemy. We will amass a large allied army, and we will use our immense Sacred Treasury to provision it if absolutely necessary. Then we will turn the Oscan field armies into a bloody smear on the ground with the overwhelming force of our alliance, and drive the survivors back into the hills.
But to do that? It will take time. It will take work, a lot of work, to build the necessary coalition. It will require the other Italiote Greek cities to appreciate the fact that they are all in danger or stand to lose out greatly, not just the Greeks of the southwestern coast. We haven't laid any of the groundwork yet.
But pulling off a successful and bold rescue expedition under the very noses of the enemy is a very good way to start.
- Location
- Buskerud, Norway
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].
[X] [Kymai] We cannot risk such an expedition [-10 talents per turn until city falls or the siege is relieved by another power, Eretria will provide grain shipments to the city and ferry refugees wherever they wish. Chance of picking up some of Kymai's citizens at random].
[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].
[X] [Kymai] We cannot risk such an expedition [-10 talents per turn until city falls or the siege is relieved by another power, Eretria will provide grain shipments to the city and ferry refugees wherever they wish. Chance of picking up some of Kymai's citizens at random].
ConfusedCanuck
Where did it all go wrong?
- Location
- Neverland
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Settle them in the new Illyrian colonies [+600 settlers in primary Illyrian colony, +200 in second Illyrian colony].
[X] [Kymai] We cannot risk such an expedition [-10 talents per turn until city falls or the siege is relieved by another power, Eretria will provide grain shipments to the city and ferry its people wherever they wish. Chance of picking up some of Kymai's citizens at random].
[X] [Lykai] Settle them in the new Illyrian colonies [+600 settlers in primary Illyrian colony, +200 in second Illyrian colony].
[X] [Kymai] We cannot risk such an expedition [-10 talents per turn until city falls or the siege is relieved by another power, Eretria will provide grain shipments to the city and ferry its people wherever they wish. Chance of picking up some of Kymai's citizens at random].
Deadly Snark
Tryhard As Fuck
Reminder, he's an Athenian that helped Sparta almost destroy the Delian League while fucking a Spartan Queen. Then he was a greek who actively helped the Persians to utterly destroy Mainland Hellas with political meddling. And finally he became an Athenian General and almost destroyed the Peloponnesian League.
The man is not to be trusted, and you definitely do not want to give him time to set up roots.
First off I would like to apologize for my overreaction earlier, in hindsight I misinterpreted the situation and shouldn't have reacted so negatively without seeking further clarification.
In regards to turn I am very happy about how it turned out and am amazed that we won so clearly on both fronts (though to be fair I understand that those who wished for a more unified Sicily might not be as ecstatic). I am hopeful that Sicily will be busy with itself for the next decade and hopefully not to likely to look to favourably on Athens. (Though I fear that some of our trustworthiness might have also suffered by association).
I am however very tempted to suggest an user motion exiling our murder happy general and his supporters like we did with Herodotus. Such behaviour is not something I like want to encourage in any way.
I also think that we should keep the citizen of Limas close instead for risking them undermining the loyalty of our new colony + I think our city will profit more from their expertise than some fresh colony would.
In regards to Kymia I am still tempted to include a military element in anything we do since I think it would do us good to face the "Oscans" on the battlefield and see how our military compares to theirs/deals with their tactics. But with limited shipping and without wanting to risk to much of our military the only viable strategies in that regard seem to either find additional allies or send an elite troops and constant supplies to the city and hope they get hit with disease or internal strife before we do. Therefore I wanted ask @Cetashwayo about the possibility of assembling a coalition with other italian greek powers even though I fear that they would prefer to fight closer to home against the Bruttii or even go the Latin powers which probably have more reason to get involved but also don't know us very well (and I guess the same is true of us).
In regards to turn I am very happy about how it turned out and am amazed that we won so clearly on both fronts (though to be fair I understand that those who wished for a more unified Sicily might not be as ecstatic). I am hopeful that Sicily will be busy with itself for the next decade and hopefully not to likely to look to favourably on Athens. (Though I fear that some of our trustworthiness might have also suffered by association).
I am however very tempted to suggest an user motion exiling our murder happy general and his supporters like we did with Herodotus. Such behaviour is not something I like want to encourage in any way.
I also think that we should keep the citizen of Limas close instead for risking them undermining the loyalty of our new colony + I think our city will profit more from their expertise than some fresh colony would.
In regards to Kymia I am still tempted to include a military element in anything we do since I think it would do us good to face the "Oscans" on the battlefield and see how our military compares to theirs/deals with their tactics. But with limited shipping and without wanting to risk to much of our military the only viable strategies in that regard seem to either find additional allies or send an elite troops and constant supplies to the city and hope they get hit with disease or internal strife before we do. Therefore I wanted ask @Cetashwayo about the possibility of assembling a coalition with other italian greek powers even though I fear that they would prefer to fight closer to home against the Bruttii or even go the Latin powers which probably have more reason to get involved but also don't know us very well (and I guess the same is true of us).
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- Location
- Hell
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].
This part at least seems almost unanimous
[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].
Adventure!
[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].
This part at least seems almost unanimous
[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].
Adventure!
FriedIce
The Authentic Fake
- Location
- Hyperreality
An overland relief force is out of the question. As is currently an alliance of the Italiote Greeks to relieve Kymai.
I think shipping them grain and @Admiral Skippy's evacuation idea are both sensible (and work together quite well - arrive with grain, leave with people) but that still leaves 10,000 residents of Kymai who have been stated to not be prepared to leave.
@Cetashwayo what do the omens say?
I think shipping them grain and @Admiral Skippy's evacuation idea are both sensible (and work together quite well - arrive with grain, leave with people) but that still leaves 10,000 residents of Kymai who have been stated to not be prepared to leave.
@Cetashwayo what do the omens say?
- Location
- Hawaii
Kymai is a proud city, and despite greivous losses in the battle of the marsh, refuse to capitulate. While we might offer them supply and safe haven for those who choose to resettle, it will be few indeed who choose such a course. The abandonment of their homes, their land, will seem abhorrent to proud men and their families. At most, we will evacuate the desperate and those who have lost everything already. Perhaps we resettle them in an Italiote poleis, or our new Illyrian colonies. These few shall have a fresh start. Even if Eretria and Kymai were sworn brothers, we have not the ability, and they not the desire, to evacuate the entire poleis by sea. Perhaps we might supply them with grain to help them withstand siege, and take refugees upon those same ships, but to send hoplites on such a long voyage would be folly. Men would be taken from their Fields, and the ekdromoi already are partly deployed on Issa and Pharos. Intervention must remain limited by the realities and practicalities of the situation. So speaks Eutychion, son of Eutychos.
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].
[X] [Kymai] We cannot risk such an expedition [-10 talents per turn until city falls or the siege is relieved by another power, Eretria will provide grain shipments to the city and ferry refugees wherever they wish. Chance of picking up some of Kymai's citizens at random].
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].
[X] [Kymai] We cannot risk such an expedition [-10 talents per turn until city falls or the siege is relieved by another power, Eretria will provide grain shipments to the city and ferry refugees wherever they wish. Chance of picking up some of Kymai's citizens at random].
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[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].
[X] [Kymai] We cannot risk such an expedition [-10 talents per turn until city falls or the siege is relieved by another power, Eretria will provide grain shipments to the city and ferry refugees wherever they wish. Chance of picking up some of Kymai's citizens at random].
[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].
[X] [Kymai] We cannot risk such an expedition [-10 talents per turn until city falls or the siege is relieved by another power, Eretria will provide grain shipments to the city and ferry refugees wherever they wish. Chance of picking up some of Kymai's citizens at random].
Horologer
Incertae sedis
- Location
- a risen sea
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].
Still mulling over the last option.
As Cetash points out, I doubt the native Sicilians find all this funny.
Carthaginian: "You Hellenes sure are a contentious people."
Syrakousian: "You just made an enemy for life!"
[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].
Still mulling over the last option.
People who are both unscrupulous and charismatic tend to be rather unpleasant, truth be told. They're usually a riot, admittedly– this update actually made me laugh– but when you actually have to live with the fallout of their manipulations, the wacky antics get old real fast.
As Cetash points out, I doubt the native Sicilians find all this funny.
Syrakousian: "It won't last. They're natural enemies. Just like Hellenes and Medes. Or Hellenes and barbaroi. Or Hellenes and Keltoi. Or Hellenes and other Hellenes. Damn Hellenes! They ruined Hellas!"It clearly didn't matter enough for them to care historically
You're somewhat overestimating the bonds of empathy that Hellenes have for each other and projecting a kind of national idealism onto this that doesn't really exist. That's really a little more 4th century BCE in concept and even then in the face of fucking Rome the Italiotes were feuding. Obviously things change over time but the Hellenes are very happy to let other Hellene cities get sacked. After all, in the face of the Persians, only 31 poleis actually fought back rather than capitulating (Thebai) or remaining neutral (many island towns).
Carthaginian: "You Hellenes sure are a contentious people."
Syrakousian: "You just made an enemy for life!"
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Settle them in the new Illyrian colonies [+600 settlers in primary Illyrian colony, +200 in second Illyrian colony].
[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].
"We shall and must not forsake our former colony in her hour of need. We can be generous, and in return gain a friend. To do so is both prudent and just, and in this it is clearly the most pious course before us."
This is totally something I would like to do, as well. But I think it will probably take years of hard, patient work and diplomacy to build that kind of coalition. As you say, when we do fight it might be against the Brutii, first.
However I think on balance this is probably kind of a good problem to have, if that makes sense. A common enemy is always a good unifier, and we've been dreaming of greater unity amongst the Italiote Greeks for a while. Several wars fought against external enemies as a League could do a lot to bring us together.
That is probably something that will take place over the next political generation or so, though. And if course, it may get derailed by other events.
[X] [Lykai] Settle them in the new Illyrian colonies [+600 settlers in primary Illyrian colony, +200 in second Illyrian colony].
[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].
"We shall and must not forsake our former colony in her hour of need. We can be generous, and in return gain a friend. To do so is both prudent and just, and in this it is clearly the most pious course before us."
This is totally something I would like to do, as well. But I think it will probably take years of hard, patient work and diplomacy to build that kind of coalition. As you say, when we do fight it might be against the Brutii, first.
However I think on balance this is probably kind of a good problem to have, if that makes sense. A common enemy is always a good unifier, and we've been dreaming of greater unity amongst the Italiote Greeks for a while. Several wars fought against external enemies as a League could do a lot to bring us together.
That is probably something that will take place over the next political generation or so, though. And if course, it may get derailed by other events.
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Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].
[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].
[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].
[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].
Droman
𐤊𐤍𐤏𐤍
[x] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[x] [Lykai] Settle them in the new Illyrian colonies [+600 settlers in primary Illyrian colony, +200 in second Illyrian colony].
[x] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].
Erastos son of Nikedemos, He Who Fears And Kills Spiders:
"Pharos may be more dangerous in the short term, it's potential in the long term is much more valuable and our efforts to pursue it should take precedence. As for the citizenry of Lykai, they would be well suited to settle the Illyrian colonies, given that the colonies will be at the front of our borders with the Liburnians, denuding them of easy allies able to distinguish between Hellenes. And as for Kymai... Kymai was once founded by Etretians, founded by our distant kin. The first city to settle Magna Graecia, now under threat from these hillborn shepherds. We cannot save the city by repelling these locusts, for while our arete is plenty our sophia is more so. We cannot march to do battle with their foe, nor can we transport our host safely to their city and risk disaster at home. We must do what we can, and rescue our kinsman! While my mind turns to the Dauni, we know them to be divided among themselves, much as the Hellenes of Sikelia are. So we must make voyage to kindred shores, and effect the greatest trickery since our flight from Asia Minor!"
@Cetashwayo - Given your explanations of inter-polis relations and how our own people identify with Kymai, I'm guessing it's incredibly unlikely that we can integrate them directly into the polis as citizens? Also, how much is the 7,500 a proportion of the city populace? Can we take only the rich and leave? Can we take only the poor and entrust that the rich will be able to buy passage on their own? Can we loan merchant ships from allies or friends to get more people, albeit at a cost? Can we bribe the Oscans to lengthen the period of evacuation?
[x] [Lykai] Settle them in the new Illyrian colonies [+600 settlers in primary Illyrian colony, +200 in second Illyrian colony].
[x] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].
Erastos son of Nikedemos, He Who Fears And Kills Spiders:
"Pharos may be more dangerous in the short term, it's potential in the long term is much more valuable and our efforts to pursue it should take precedence. As for the citizenry of Lykai, they would be well suited to settle the Illyrian colonies, given that the colonies will be at the front of our borders with the Liburnians, denuding them of easy allies able to distinguish between Hellenes. And as for Kymai... Kymai was once founded by Etretians, founded by our distant kin. The first city to settle Magna Graecia, now under threat from these hillborn shepherds. We cannot save the city by repelling these locusts, for while our arete is plenty our sophia is more so. We cannot march to do battle with their foe, nor can we transport our host safely to their city and risk disaster at home. We must do what we can, and rescue our kinsman! While my mind turns to the Dauni, we know them to be divided among themselves, much as the Hellenes of Sikelia are. So we must make voyage to kindred shores, and effect the greatest trickery since our flight from Asia Minor!"
@Cetashwayo - Given your explanations of inter-polis relations and how our own people identify with Kymai, I'm guessing it's incredibly unlikely that we can integrate them directly into the polis as citizens? Also, how much is the 7,500 a proportion of the city populace? Can we take only the rich and leave? Can we take only the poor and entrust that the rich will be able to buy passage on their own? Can we loan merchant ships from allies or friends to get more people, albeit at a cost? Can we bribe the Oscans to lengthen the period of evacuation?
- Location
- Europe
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Settle them in the new Illyrian colonies [+600 settlers in primary Illyrian colony, +200 in second Illyrian colony].
[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].
I'm not about to let another Greek city be overrun by barbarian teenagers who'll take Greek women as their "wives" while killing the boys and men. I felt bad enough when we abandoned our allies in Taras but doing nothing here is just wrong.
@Cetashwayo you said that the Oscans have between 3,000 and 6,000 men and have a camp outside the wall of Kymai and Capua. Is it two seperate camps or a single one? How are these thousands of soldiers being supplied? Surely they aren't actually capable of conducting a siege when they'd be facing the same difficulties that we faced in Taras only magnified ten times due to them having no supply lines and having ravaged the countryside.
[X] [Lykai] Settle them in the new Illyrian colonies [+600 settlers in primary Illyrian colony, +200 in second Illyrian colony].
[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].
I'm not about to let another Greek city be overrun by barbarian teenagers who'll take Greek women as their "wives" while killing the boys and men. I felt bad enough when we abandoned our allies in Taras but doing nothing here is just wrong.
@Cetashwayo you said that the Oscans have between 3,000 and 6,000 men and have a camp outside the wall of Kymai and Capua. Is it two seperate camps or a single one? How are these thousands of soldiers being supplied? Surely they aren't actually capable of conducting a siege when they'd be facing the same difficulties that we faced in Taras only magnified ten times due to them having no supply lines and having ravaged the countryside.
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Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
@Cetashwayo
Because I figure some dork is going to ask it at some point, I'll get this out of the way early on:
If we convince the people of Kymai to evacuate and resettle in Eretria, it will be as metics, not as citizens, correct? Even with Kymai having been an Eretrian colony, it's still not Eretria, yes?
Because I figure some dork is going to ask it at some point, I'll get this out of the way early on:
If we convince the people of Kymai to evacuate and resettle in Eretria, it will be as metics, not as citizens, correct? Even with Kymai having been an Eretrian colony, it's still not Eretria, yes?
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
We are not pastoral nomads whose food supplies are entirely on the hoof. Yes, they absolutely can manage an indefinite siege.
Seven thousand five hundred people is still huge by the standards of the founding population of a colony. It will be a much bigger trading foothold wherever they decide to settle than we could establish on our own.
I don't think we need to worry so much about the remainder. In truth, probably a lot of them will go to Neapolis or to other cities around the Mediterranean. Or they will die, but they were all facing that anyway, so it's not like this isn't better.
If things get really dire, we may be able to change the minds of the stubborn, and scrounge up some ships from somewhere. Or not. Ultimately our objective here is to save what can be saved.
I don't think we need to worry so much about the remainder. In truth, probably a lot of them will go to Neapolis or to other cities around the Mediterranean. Or they will die, but they were all facing that anyway, so it's not like this isn't better.
If things get really dire, we may be able to change the minds of the stubborn, and scrounge up some ships from somewhere. Or not. Ultimately our objective here is to save what can be saved.
- Location
- Central Europe
Crossing the Adriatic and getting caught in a storm:
Once again we see that Poseidon's storms are Eretria's greatest enemy at sea
Fighting 6000 Liburni sailors on 80 ships:
Once again we see that Poseidon's storms are Eretria's greatest enemy at sea
- Location
- Space
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Settle them in the new Illyrian colonies [+600 settlers in primary Illyrian colony, +200 in second Illyrian colony].
[X] [Kymai] We cannot risk such an expedition [-10 talents per turn until city falls or the siege is relieved by another power, Eretria will provide grain shipments to the city and ferry its people wherever they wish. Chance of picking up some of Kymai's citizens at random].
[X] [Lykai] Settle them in the new Illyrian colonies [+600 settlers in primary Illyrian colony, +200 in second Illyrian colony].
[X] [Kymai] We cannot risk such an expedition [-10 talents per turn until city falls or the siege is relieved by another power, Eretria will provide grain shipments to the city and ferry its people wherever they wish. Chance of picking up some of Kymai's citizens at random].
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Theopilos the Younger:Once again we see that Poseidon's storms are Eretria's greatest enemy at sea
"It is to the gods to see to it that we do not become too arrogant in our might."
*grins*
"For surely no others can do so!"
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
There isn't going to be a coalition. Even if the overall trade of the region is bound to suffer with the loss of Kymai, each of the cities in the region will gain from that reduced share of Hellene trade if Kymai is gone. As Eretria gains from Adriatic trade, so do the cities of the Italian toe from Tyrrhenian trade, and unlike Eretria they rely even more on trade, not just because they were founded specifically as trading colonies on sometimes marginal land, but because their taxation system is far less developed, meaning their main source of revenue is trade. Rhegion most of all can just use the fall of Kymai to seize Pithekousai and maintain an outpost in the region that way.
So Kymai dying is actually pretty sweet for them.
Some citizens are going to leave on their own, mind you. I don't think the Samnites actually killed everyone in the city. Some may flee to Neapolis, which is still intact, it just surrendered, but obviously as some point the Neapolitans aren't going to want too many people coming in case that gives them too many mouths to feed. Others will scatter across Italia and Sicilia.
And yes, many will stay until they die, because this is their home or they're in denial.
There will be omens relating to this next year if people choose to start the chain. However the city doesn't really like to have omens before major votes like this, because votes are the province of the people, not the Gods, and it can influence the vote. A little weird given how omens often do influence decisions anyway, but it's a thing.
The Etruscan cities mostly don't care. Veii would care, but its naval power was crushed by Syrakousai and its naval outlet cut off by the Romans.
You can definitely take only the rich but this may cause violence for obvious reasons in Kymai if they learn you're doing this. The 7,500 are those willing, which is a random strata of society. You can't make them citizens. You can't bribe the Oscans, though you could do other things to lengthen the evacuation period.
It's not really an active siege in the same way as you'd imagine it. They're merely despoiling the countryside and killing everyone outside the city walls, and then burning the fields. They have their own herds and can be supplied from Capua, so they don't really need Kymai's supplies, and can just starve the city out that way. Think about Athenai; it relied on Black sea grain to sustain it while the Spartans burned the countryside outside the walls, but the Spartans didn't stay forever. Once Athenai's grain supply was gone and it had no navy, how could it supply itself?
And Kymai, unlike Athenai, can't continuously fund its grain trade forever unless the Eretrians do it for them. Which is a drain, but it's definitely an option. However, cities can often fall by night attacks, treachery, or undermining, which the Oscans have gotten good at. Scipio Africanus took the well-defended capital of Barkid Spain, Carthago Nova, merely by attacking a section of the walls that was not defended because it lay adjacent to a swamp.
It's been a long time since Eretria settled Kymai, and it was a joint settlement. So in this case, they'd still be Metics, even if culturally close Metics, being Ionians with a similar dialect.
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Crossing the Adriatic and getting caught in a storm:
Fighting 6000 Liburni sailors on 80 ships:
Once again we see that Poseidon's storms are Eretria's greatest enemy at sea
Part of it is that triremes are very finely balanced ships, which is what gives them their agility; you can actually tip them over pretty easily if too many people stand at one end. Our triremes are notably more finely and lightly constructed than most for even greater maneuverability.
The sea battle was a genuinely excellent and exciting read. It felt utterly one-sided, in some ways, and yet it was still immensely gripping.
Also I love that even the Athenians are slightly weirded out by our LOW DRAG MAXIMUM SPEED fetish in shipbuilding.
The Dialogue of Linos was excellent as well. His political star has really risen lately.
Honestly, there are so many little gems to this update, I may go back right now and give it another read-through.