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Magna Graecia: Titanomachia (A City State Quest)

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[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].

[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].

[X] [Kymai] We cannot risk such an expedition [-10 talents per turn until city falls or the siege is relieved by another power, Eretria will provide grain shipments to the city and ferry refugees wherever they wish. Chance of picking up some of Kymai's citizens at random].
 
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Settle them in the new Illyrian colonies [+600 settlers in primary Illyrian colony, +200 in second Illyrian colony].
[X] [Kymai] We cannot risk such an expedition [-10 talents per turn until city falls or the siege is relieved by another power, Eretria will provide grain shipments to the city and ferry refugees wherever they wish. Chance of picking up some of Kymai's citizens at random].
 
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[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].
[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].
 
Cetashwayo said:
No, it could definitely be a spot for a colony.

And don't forget Dubrovnik, which was founded by colonists from Epidaurum in the 600s after Slavic invasions of the area.
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It seemed too close to Epidauros to me, but it is definitely a prime location. I assume it would openly declare our intention to bring the other Adriatic Greeks into our sphere of influence.

Also a question regarding the Lykai families, could we also let them choose where in the Epulian League/Eretria they want to settle? And if we do, what would that spread most likely look like?
 
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Cetashwayo said:
The southern island of Capri has already been taken by the shepherds, some of whom just swam over, though "take over" is a little much. They settled there. You could potentially secure both islands, but it isn't going to support the citizens for long, and that'll especially make Rhegion wary as they wouldn't want you to stay in the region on those islands.
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Wow, those guys are dedicated. Could they even drive sheep and the like to clear that distance in the ocean? Or I guess they may have counted on seizing Greek livestock already present. Doesn't seem as though Pithekousai is safe either in that case.
 
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].
[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].
Adhoc vote count started by Admiral Skippy on Jun 17, 2019 at 5:07 PM, finished with 52 posts and 11 votes.
  • [X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
    [X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].
    [X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].
    [X] [Lykai] Settle them in Eretria [+800 Metics in Eretria, citizen ratio falls accordingly].
    [X] [Kymai] We cannot risk such an expedition [-10 talents per turn until city falls or the siege is relieved by another power, Eretria will provide grain shipments to the city and ferry its people wherever they wish. Chance of picking up some of Kymai's citizens at random].
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Kipeci said:
Wow, those guys are dedicated. Could they even drive sheep and the like to clear that distance in the ocean? Or I guess they may have counted on seizing Greek livestock already present. Doesn't seem as though Pithekousai is safe either in that case.
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It wasn't really a fight in that case, they just swam and then walked onto the island. The ones who accepted the dare, anyways.

If you're getting the impression the "Oscan occupation of Capri" are a group of teenagers, you're on the right track.

Spacegnom said:
It seemed to close to Epidauros to me, but it is definitely a prime location. I assume it would openly declare our intention to bring the other Adriatic Greeks into our sphere of influence.

Also a question regarding the Lykai families, could we also let them choose where in the Epulian League/Eretria they want to settle? And if we do, what would that spread most likely look like?
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They'd prefer to go home.
 
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].
[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].
 
Would shipping the Kymai down the coast to somewhere like Laus allow us to up the evacuation at all @Cetashwayo? And would the Oscans be amenable to a negotiated withdrawal, getting the land and city without a fight after a few years, rather than a burnt out husk and a bloodbath?
 
One thing I'd like to note is that if we were to save Kymai, it may be best to put their people close to the northern Etruscans; they are more familiar with Etruscan customs (albeit the southern ones) than any of us and may be able to trade and deal with them better than with random other barbaroi. As such, it might be more advantageous to land them near to Ankon and shore up that area.
 
Ironanvil1 said:
Would shipping the Kymai down the coast to somewhere like Laus allow us to up the evacuation at all @Cetashwayo? And would the Oscans be amenable to a negotiated withdrawal, getting the land and city without a fight after a few years, rather than a burnt out husk and a bloodbath?
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1. The 7,500 is a pretty hard cap because it also represents how many people are willing to leave. You might be able to get more if the city is well and truly fucked but that will be a random amount.
2. The Oscans want wives, not just loot and land, and further, the people of Kymai itself might not all be amenable to leaving. Further, there's a significant portion of the city that might be willing not to surrender or who refuse to believe the city will fall.
 
Eretriotes,

Say our beloved polis were to come under siege, perhaps by Syrakousai. The Athenians come, and say to our people, "Come, flee your city-- we will not save Eretria, but we will put you to our own uses." We are a proud people, who would not easily abandon our great work; only in a time of great need would we do so, and we would always bear some grudge against Athens, who sought to use us for their purpose.

If that is what we would do, would the citizens of ancient Kyme, first city of the Hellenes in all of Megale Hellas, not do the same? Let us first apply our art and our philosophy, then, to how Kyme might be saved by Eretrian craft.

I believe such a task is quite possible with the resources at hand. The Oscans have many weaknesses that we are well-positioned to exploit -- we alone among the Hellenes possess the allies and the skill to fight and defeat the Oscans, and relieve the siege of Kymai.
 
Cetashwayo said:
It wasn't really a fight in that case, they just swam and then walked onto the island. The ones who accepted the dare, anyways.

If you're getting the impression the "Oscan occupation of Capri" are a group of teenagers, you're on the right track.



They'd prefer to go home.
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Yeah well if they go home now the Tarentines will either kill them or enslave them. This way at least, they get to be free. Ish. We are generous masters, better us than some cruel Athenian yoke so heavy that even Hades himself hears their ponderous steps.
 
Cetashwayo said:
1. The 7,500 is a pretty hard cap because it also represents how many people are willing to leave. You might be able to get more if the city is well and truly fucked but that will be a random amount.
2. The Oscans want wives, not just loot and land, and further, the people of Kymai itself might not all be amenable to leaving. Further, there's a significant portion of the city that might be willing not to surrender or who refuse to believe the city will fall.
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What's the total population of Kymai? I remember it being said in Children of War that they lost something like a fifth of their male population at the Marshes.
 
OOC, it will take a significant commitment, but I do think we are well-placed to fight the Oscans through our cavalry and our allies -- sustaining a siege is difficult, and the geography of Kymai is such that seaborne raids against the Oscan camp, and cavalry raids against their herds assuming we can seize the islands and pasture horses there, means we can pressure the Oscans enough to make sustaining a siege a difficult proposition.
 
Chimeraguard said:
What's the total population of Kymai? I remember it being said in Children of War that they lost something like a fifth of their male population at the Marshes.
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17,000, with 1,500 of that being combat-ready men. There are a lot of refugees from the surrounding region who are not so willing to fight for the city.
 
Secretariat said:
OOC, it will take a significant commitment, but I do think we are well-placed to fight the Oscans through our cavalry and our allies -- sustaining a siege is difficult, and the geography of Kymai is such that seaborne raids against the Oscan camp, and cavalry raids against their herds assuming we can seize the islands and pasture horses there, means we can pressure the Oscans enough to make sustaining a siege a difficult proposition.
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Why would Rhegion let us bring in all our native allies and armies through their territory to support their rival from whose loss they are profiting?
 
Spacegnom said:
Do you mean return them to Kerkyra? I suppose that would be possible with a User-motion? Would Kerkyra see them as returning citizens,or as Metics as well? Do we know how Kerkyra feels about us exchanging Lykai for Herakleia Lukania?
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No, I mean they'd prefer to go home to Lykai. They'd really rather not be in Eretria, though.

I mean like, you literally colluded with Taras to deport them from their home city. I don't know what to tell ya. They're not actively treasonous but don't expect a thank you :V
 
Cetashwayo said:
Skiron and Obander rapidly got on famously (5d4+4=17), with Obander making the strategos burst out laughing with his nonsensical analogies that were delivered with such seriousness that they almost made sense. You see, Obander would explain solemnly, the pony does not wait for the stallion, but goes to drink alone. Skiron nodded to that, and then wondered if his opposite was senile, allowing himself to admit things he would not otherwise.

As it turns out, it is sometimes possible for old dogs to learn new tricks, for Obander's trick had become feigning senility. Through this he discovered that the Gelans were already swaying in their support of Syrakousai, and that Hermokrates had promised to donate an enormous number of talents if they stayed the course.
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Cetashwayo said:
As for Obander, he stayed in Gela for one more day, enjoyed a light lunch, and then sailed back home. Sicily had been secured.
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twelfth dimensional chessmaster right here
 
Cetashwayo said:
17,000, with 1,500 of that being combat-ready men. There are a lot of refugees from the surrounding region who are not so willing to fight for the city.
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Oof. Wonder if we'd be able to convince at least some of them to take up arms (if we/they can find the arms) if we commit to this.

On another note, who are the Ausones to the northwest? Getting their aid against the Campani is probably a ridiculously long shot, but might as well get information on them.

Admiral Skippy said:
twelfth dimensional chessmaster right here
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The whole Sicilian.... event is like a comedy skit. Which I suppose is to be expected when Alcibiades is present.​
 
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Chimeraguard said:
Oof. Wonder if we'd be able to convince at least some of them to take up arms (if we/they can find the arms) if we commit to this.

On another note, who are the Ausones to the northwest? Getting their aid against the Campani is probably a ridiculously long shot, but might as well get information on them.
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They are an Italic tribe of herdsmen. Their response to you would be "fuck off graeco" full stop.
 
Anyone else wonder if we could purchase Alkibiades' service for helping us with Kymai? Controlled chaos sounds like it couldn't hurt here.

Cetashwayo said:
For now, it served mostly to be the end of Irenaeos' political career, and despite his successes he resigned his post as strategos before the end of the year, unable to get his own version out and with the Antipatrids embarassed by his coarse rhetoric.
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I thought Iranaeos was a member of the Exoria, not Antipatrids?
 
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