Magna Graecia: Titanomachia (A City State Quest)
- Thread starter Cetashwayo
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- Original Alt. History
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- ancient greece alternate history empire builder civ quest democracy gods save us granary management hubris it's an eretrian thing. let lose the weasels of war lithocracy lithocracy is my fetish maximum hellene my big fat greek divine wedding this granary aint gonna fill itself cetash unwinnable
Walker Of Chaos
Best/Worst Dynasty
- Location
- Sweden
With the recent mechanical changes I feel much more for a non Drakonid slate. Furthermore I have been swayed by the Exorian cultural program. Hence my vote will be the following.
[X] Proboulos: Theron Archippos (Demos Exoria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Obander Eupraxis (Demos Antipatria)
[X] Proboulos: Theron Archippos (Demos Exoria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Obander Eupraxis (Demos Antipatria)
- Location
- Central Europe
Obander is probably really only suited for pirate hunting (because that one he can delegate) or allied military reform.
I really don't imagine him doing well at either intrigue in Kerkyra(Lawfulness too high, friendliness too low), trade negotiations with the Enetoi (too low friendliness and too low magnificence) or Barbaroi diplomacy (Mnemnon is basically is opposite).
The importance of the pirate mission speaks for itself, and it is probably my preferred choice. Although we might once again be able to ignore it and simply wait until they damage our trade. Which would then allow to launch it regardless.
For the Exoria mission speaks that it might help ease the lack of actions directed towards the Messapii (although simply going for the Exoria Proboulos would help more).
- Location
- Meycauayan, Bulacan, Philippines
I, Hermesdora Eretriazenis the Psiloi, do vote for the following!
[X] Xenoparakletor: Obander Eupraxis (Demos Antipatria)
Glory 6, Lawfulness 7, Friendliness 2, Courage 3, Magnificence 2, Wisdom 6
[X] Proboulos: Theron Archippos (Demos Exoria)
Glory 5, Lawfulness 6, Friendliness 2, Courage 4, Magnificence 3, Wisdom 3
I voted for Antipatria for our xenoparakletor because we need to reconcile with our once brother city Taras! And we need to be talking with our fellow Western Hellenes more!
I voted for Exoria for our proboulos because we need a reform in our calendar system! Festivals are no longer being celebrated at the right time! And because we need to tie the Peucetii and the Messapii better to us and us to them! And how better to do that than with money and food?
Now I have casted my vote, I shall now return to my thermopolion!
Come eat at Bryzos' Thermopolion! The oldest running Thermopolion in Eretria Eschate! We have lots of fish and squid dishes! And we will open a branch in Egnatia ten days from now, run by my sister Artemisdora and her husband Trigonoxo! Half price discount for opening day!
[X] Xenoparakletor: Obander Eupraxis (Demos Antipatria)
Glory 6, Lawfulness 7, Friendliness 2, Courage 3, Magnificence 2, Wisdom 6
[X] Proboulos: Theron Archippos (Demos Exoria)
Glory 5, Lawfulness 6, Friendliness 2, Courage 4, Magnificence 3, Wisdom 3
I voted for Antipatria for our xenoparakletor because we need to reconcile with our once brother city Taras! And we need to be talking with our fellow Western Hellenes more!
I voted for Exoria for our proboulos because we need a reform in our calendar system! Festivals are no longer being celebrated at the right time! And because we need to tie the Peucetii and the Messapii better to us and us to them! And how better to do that than with money and food?
Now I have casted my vote, I shall now return to my thermopolion!
Come eat at Bryzos' Thermopolion! The oldest running Thermopolion in Eretria Eschate! We have lots of fish and squid dishes! And we will open a branch in Egnatia ten days from now, run by my sister Artemisdora and her husband Trigonoxo! Half price discount for opening day!
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- Location
- Finland
[X] Proboulos: Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Athenagoras Symmachos (Demos Drakonia)
It's a pity that Drakonia is behind in the votes. Their domestic and foreign policies synergize very well, and they are focused on what really matters for us right now.
Most people seem worried that meddling with Kerkyra is risky. This is true, it is. But are risky plans something for us to avoid entirely, without considering the odds and the benefits?
If we succeed in Kerkyra, Athens is unlikely to complain. They are pressed too much to take on another enemy for no real gain, since what we do in Kerkyra is essentially what they want. Korinth will be angry, but Korinth cannot defeat Kerkyra even in a void, let alone with us in support and a war with Athens ongoing.
If we fail in Kerkyra, then we will take some loss, mostly of face. Athens will still likely interfere, and if they do, that is all that will come of it. If they don't, then Korinth still can't afford to fight us right now, but we will have trouble later. However, if Korinth gets Kerkyra then we will have trouble regardless of whether we try to prevent it or not.
So there are all the risks. They are not so bad as all that. The chances that we take actually significant loss here are small, comparable to the chance we take losses by not acting. But why then would we act, for it carries opportunity costs and costs of the usual kind as well?
The benefits. If we succeed, we will have a neutral and positively inclined Kerkyra. This secures our Western position greatly, for it hinders any attempt by any major power to interfere with us in the Adriatic. It gives us the opportunity to pivot to this sea and make it truly ours. While Korinth is weak and Kerkyra is friendly, we can set up and dig in so that they cannot dig us out again once they are strong once more. For we will also be strong.
This is an opportunity to grasp the Adriatic and its wealth and never let go. Sicily is a sideshow to us in comparison, as long as we can prevent hegemony by any single power there. Which is not even a threat yet, and Carthage will be on our side in that.
Don't purely focus on the doomsayers on Kerkyra. Grasp opportunity, and become rich and powerful.
(meta: besides, I think it'd also be an interesting path.)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Athenagoras Symmachos (Demos Drakonia)
It's a pity that Drakonia is behind in the votes. Their domestic and foreign policies synergize very well, and they are focused on what really matters for us right now.
Most people seem worried that meddling with Kerkyra is risky. This is true, it is. But are risky plans something for us to avoid entirely, without considering the odds and the benefits?
If we succeed in Kerkyra, Athens is unlikely to complain. They are pressed too much to take on another enemy for no real gain, since what we do in Kerkyra is essentially what they want. Korinth will be angry, but Korinth cannot defeat Kerkyra even in a void, let alone with us in support and a war with Athens ongoing.
If we fail in Kerkyra, then we will take some loss, mostly of face. Athens will still likely interfere, and if they do, that is all that will come of it. If they don't, then Korinth still can't afford to fight us right now, but we will have trouble later. However, if Korinth gets Kerkyra then we will have trouble regardless of whether we try to prevent it or not.
So there are all the risks. They are not so bad as all that. The chances that we take actually significant loss here are small, comparable to the chance we take losses by not acting. But why then would we act, for it carries opportunity costs and costs of the usual kind as well?
The benefits. If we succeed, we will have a neutral and positively inclined Kerkyra. This secures our Western position greatly, for it hinders any attempt by any major power to interfere with us in the Adriatic. It gives us the opportunity to pivot to this sea and make it truly ours. While Korinth is weak and Kerkyra is friendly, we can set up and dig in so that they cannot dig us out again once they are strong once more. For we will also be strong.
This is an opportunity to grasp the Adriatic and its wealth and never let go. Sicily is a sideshow to us in comparison, as long as we can prevent hegemony by any single power there. Which is not even a threat yet, and Carthage will be on our side in that.
Don't purely focus on the doomsayers on Kerkyra. Grasp opportunity, and become rich and powerful.
(meta: besides, I think it'd also be an interesting path.)
- Location
- USA
Agreed. Though, to be fair, any of the Demes could delegate that military mission, it's more like Obander wouldn't be well suited for any of the other Deme's missions as you have noted above.
The main issue I have with it is the cost of things, however I know that it is a necessary mission we must undertake, I am hopeful that we might secure some loot to fray the costs.
- Location
- Central Europe
Mighty Hermesdora, I fear your wounds still affect you! You have mixed up the Antipatriad domestic policy with its foreign policies. If you want reconciliation with Taras and more engagement with our western brethren you have to vote for Obander not Kyros! You have to choose between the Exorian and the Antipatriad foreign aims, we cannot have both at the same time.
- Location
- Pilipinas
Why do we want the Demos Antipatria to control the Proboulos? Hoplite reform is nice but is it that really important right now? The Pythagoreans sound uniquely fun but then again why are they that important? Then finally the Hill of the Divine Marriage is getting improved even further but what is unique with this? It doesnt add anything just making the temple we already have even bigger.
Edit: also if i get the hint on the previous update right the current Antipatrian mantis is corrupt and should be voted out.
Edit: also if i get the hint on the previous update right the current Antipatrian mantis is corrupt and should be voted out.
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Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
Pissing off the gods is a time-honored Greek tradition though. What do you have against our fine traditions, Leukos?
Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
Yes! It goes without saying, but everything boils down to a clash between hoplites eventually and ours are currently subpar. Rectifying that is a matter of the national interest. The Pythagoreans will mainly ease contact with the Italiotes as we would actually have a point of commonality to bind us together. Finally, the Divine Marriage is a proxy for our Hellenizing influence, which is especially necessary to maintain our status among the Greeks AND convert the barbarians to our culture.
So everything on the Antipatrid proboulous slate is incredibly necessary. The same cannot be said of the Exoria.
- Location
- Central Europe
I agree, everything on Antipatrid slate looks worthwhile. However the Overland Trade Routes only need an Agoranomoi from the Demos Exoria. Additionally, the Antipatrids seem to lack a trade policy. So, voting for Exoria to increase the chance to get their trade policy on the boule seems quite beneficial to me.
- Location
- Finland
It is true that the Antipatrid slate for Proboulos is strong. I would be voting for them if not for the colonial policy and merchant fleet register of the Drakonids that are strong drivers of what I want us to achieve in Illyria.
- Location
- Vicksburg, MS
I have railed on this topic a few times recently, but it's absolutely critical that we implement the Antipatrid foreign policy. Syrakousai loathes us and our allies, we've got to be sure that we can pull a Metapontion on them and strangle their efforts to expand at the Sikeliote League's expense or else we 'll one day find ourselves short our allies while facing down an 800 pound gorilla. Futher coordination with Italian cities is also vital to give us the best chance for military access or maybe even adding onto our burgeoning coalition, or if nothing else to limit what diplomatic blows we may suffer in the region. And the chance to reconcile with Taras is absolutely priceless; as long as they are hostile we'll have a dagger glinting at our back whenever we get engaged anywhere else, and our allies can also be pressured from both sides. This option is worth its weight in gold, so it's a great thing that it's so far ahead. As much as my internal preference lies with the Drakonids because I love the idea of a sea empire and establishing the Adriatic as Greek clay, their foreign policy is rather irresponsible at this time because it puts us as a higher priority on Korinth's list while we're simultaneously hostile with Syrakousai and Taras. That's an enemy bingo and we're not even making buddies with Athens in the process since we're explicitly trying to keep whatever Kerkyra results as neutral; and as we've seen, even our local & ostensibly reliable allies can end up quite distracted with Sicilian affairs or getting their access to us blocked by suspicious Italiote cities. Similarly, I'm absolutely not a fan of the Exoria foreign policy as for one I don't view the Dauni as all that much of a prize (particularly when our only allies are getting tore up clear on the other side of Italy and for another there is the consideration that if we conquer the Dauni or they fall under our sway, then it becomes our job to handle what's going on with Samnites and Frentani. No thank you there.
For social policy I'm actually inclined to lean Exoria on this one, which surprised me because I'm generally pro-Drakonid. However, it seems to develop our trade most with the addition of those herd animals as overseas trade (nearly double the value attained from setting the Drakonid mercantile policy for the same expense!) and that's before applying the tariff efficiency boost that they get for the calendar idea. The one that the Drakonids came up with earlier might have been better with respect to trade efficiency, but let's take what we can get here. I am reluctant to cut colony growth, though. Anyhow, without further ado:
[X] Proboulos: Theron Archippos (Demos Exoria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Obander Eupraxis (Demos Antipatria)
For social policy I'm actually inclined to lean Exoria on this one, which surprised me because I'm generally pro-Drakonid. However, it seems to develop our trade most with the addition of those herd animals as overseas trade (nearly double the value attained from setting the Drakonid mercantile policy for the same expense!) and that's before applying the tariff efficiency boost that they get for the calendar idea. The one that the Drakonids came up with earlier might have been better with respect to trade efficiency, but let's take what we can get here. I am reluctant to cut colony growth, though. Anyhow, without further ado:
[X] Proboulos: Theron Archippos (Demos Exoria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Obander Eupraxis (Demos Antipatria)
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
via r/askhistorians:
Article: Prometheus was apparently not actually all that important in Greek folklore, and his role as known to us appears to largely be an invention of Hesiod, who greatly expanded Prometheus' importance. Henceforth we find Prometheus of some importance in poetry but really relatively little importance in actual folklore and cult practice. In any case, Prometheus had an altar at the Academy, which he shared with Hephaestus and from which the Promethea torch-race began every year--Prometheus is often associated with Hephaestus in cult ritual, and he was considered the patron of the Ceramicus at Athens. His tomb in Locrian Opus was also the site of a cult, as was an alternate location of his tomb at Argos (I think Sicyon also had an alternate site), although according to Pausanias the Argives denied that Prometheus was the fire-bringer, ascribing that role to Phoroneus, the ancestor of the Pelasgians. According to Pausanias again Prometheus had a mystery cult at Thebes, or rather that Prometheus was the founder of the cult when he entrusted the ritual objects to the Thebans. He also apparently had some sort of cult center at Panopeus, at which a statue of Prometheus or Asclepius was kept in a sundried-brick shrine of some kind.
- Location
- Finland
Antipatrid foreign policy is important but is it critical now? Consider: We are safe from Taras for 20 years. The situation in Sicily is beginning to fray, but has not exploded yet and we are a secondary actor there compared to the Sikeliotes. And we can take the Italiote diplomacy as an additional option.
Kerkyra is an opportunity right now that we will not be able to do later. Everything else in the Drakonid slate is also very useful, and colonies in particular need to be started on faster to make them grow strong faster. But if we start colonising later, and don't act on Kerkyra now, we will face tough competition for the Adriatic. Now is our opportunity to truly rule it.
- Location
- Luton Airport
While the Pythagoreans might not seem like they're an immediate gamechanger, I'd remind people how much mileage we got out of the polis having one financially and mathematically astute individual, Ianedar, so having a bunch of people around who can crunch the number is likely to boost any number of other endeavours, such as the calendar, ship insurance/registry and military reorganisation proposals.
@Cetashwayo i don't understand why Immigration Policy is part of Demes Platforms. Didn't the Ekklesia already decided what it should be last year? And knowing what is the Assembly stance on the Immigration why do Demes put different Policy in their platforms? Isn't it a bit like saying "we know what you want and we will not give you that"?
- Location
- Meycauayan, Bulacan, Philippines