Magna Graecia: Titanomachia (A City State Quest)

Antipatrid is the strong choice for Proboulos - the Divine Marriage is something we want to emphasise, to try and revitalise the popularity it held across Magna Graecia in years past, raising Eretria's prestige with it as the cult centre, the military reforms are a very solid foundation for any action we wish to undertake, and having mathematically inclined philosophers based in the polis would provide great assistance to numerous projects.
Their candidate being a talented manager is just a bonus.

For Xenoparakletor, the choice is between Antipatrid once again, to buttress our position in Sicily and Italia, or Drakonia, largely to guide the fate of Kerkyra.

On balance, however, I'd say the Antipatrid foreign policy platform offers more, all three of its proposals being matters we need to address promptly, and Obander sounding like near the ideal man to deal with our fellow Hellenes.

[X] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Obander Eupraxis (Demos Antipatria)

[X] Proboulos: Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Athenagoras Symmachos (Demos Drakonia)

Next turn if the option is still available, we should liberate the Dauni cities from the cruel yoke of their king. I just hope it remains available to us. Honestly, though we could just conquer it.

No matter what Demes we pick I think we should strongly consider doing a double down. With the rate at which new problems keep coming up it might just be for the best to focus solely on dealing with one specific issue and ensuring it won't pop up again in the next few turns.

@Cetashwayo where lies the island of Issas?

Professor Vesca said:

@Cetashwayo where lies the island of Issas?

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Put a link to it in the update. It's here.

It may be worth noting that in OTL, Athens comes for the oligarchs soon and reinstates the democrats. It is also worth noting that the peloponesians were willing to commit a lot of ships to this, so it could be quite painful to deal with that. Of course, things could be quite different here, and this approach still gets us a solidly allied Kerkyra. i'd just prefer to take the antipatria options right now and deal with the incoming sicilian issue, plus acquire open lines of communication.
[X] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Obander Eupraxis (Demos Antipatria)

Walker Of Chaos said:

No matter what Demes we pick I think we should strongly consider doing a double down. With the rate at which new problems keep coming up it might just be for the best to focus solely on dealing with one specific issue and ensuring it won't pop up again in the next few turns.

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That's the reasoning behind my going for the Antipatrids. We just spent several years interacting with the Italiotes - it makes sense to spend the effort to tie that up into a stable system where we don't need to fear further revanchism from Taras, lay the foundations for what could grow into an Italiote League, and constrain Syracuse.
Taking Lykai should also somewhat serve a dual purpose of damaging the standing of the Kerkyran oligarchs, possibly allowing us to pursue reinstating the democrats at a later date.

"Fellow citizens, consider carefully the consequences of the proposals before us. We should not rush quickly into another war after having won our victory over Taras. We have tested the patience of all-mighty Zeus and have been reprieved once. We should not do so again. A policy of peace and development is wise at this point, but it must also be matched by fitting actions elsewhere. It is better to plow one field of barley and enjoy its full produce than to try to plow three haphazardly and wind up with less than the produce of the single field.

So we must consider what are our most pressing matters. The Adriatic grows more dangerous by the year. Between the pirates and Corinth's advantages with the fall of Kerkyra's democratic party our trade is threatened. The Messapii are in desperate need of a strong hand to bring their affairs in order. Taras may yet wallow in humiliation and resentment until ready to oppose our hegemony once again. The Dauni are more opportunity than threat, though an advance of the inland trade might substitute for a bit for the loss of income from pirate threats. But above all else, we see that Syracuse is beginning to stir again and that a general congress of the Sicilian powers will come soon that might give them the freedom and advantages they need to become yet again a threat to the liberty of the Hellenes of Italy. So we must choose carefully which threat we can address now.

For my part I think we have too many undigested barbaroi to deal effectively with the Dauni right now. We must turn the Messapii into useful allies first before we can look to teach the Dauni. Their king was handily thwarted by our xenoparakletor Mnemnon, whose services with the barbaroi are without question. There is no threat from this angle and the opportunity they offer would be difficult to exploit now, and thus they should be of the lowest priority.

Then we see the situation in the Adriatic and with Kerkyra. This is far graver a matter to be sure. If Corinth is joined by the strength of Kerkyra we will have little chance to obtain freedom of the Adriatic on our part. We would be faced with trusting in the fleet of Athens to balance against them. And while the Athenians have humiliated the Corinthians over and over again, they cannot be everywhere at once. If the Athenians are forced to concentrate their fleet in the Aegean or the eastern ocean we would be vulnerable. But can we bring about the triumph of the democratic party in Kerkyra? I am uncertain, and a failure might risk war with Corinth and the oligarchs of Kerkyra. If successful the plans of the Drakonians would bring us an Adriatic hegemony so there is much to commend on it.

But of the threats, I fear Syracuse most of all. They are powerful, if less so than in the days of Hiero. And they despise our city. We cast down their impious oppression of our fellow Ionians. Their loss of hegemony was at the hands of our great strategos Herodion. The proposal of wise Obander to tie ourselves more closely to the cities of southern Italia in preparation for the general conference is intriguing. Had we had influence in Metapontion and Rhegion and Krotone and so forth, we might have found the terms of their peace more to our liking. And further still, though it is risky, a full reconciliation with Taras would be invaluable. If they become an embittered enemy they are a dangerous ally to any who would do Eretria harm. If they are, perhaps not friends, at least on cordial terms we might in turn work together to keep outside influence out of Epulia and the Sallentine Peninsula, assuring each other of their spheres of influence without further conflict.

Therefore I feel in favor of Obander, though I might say I regret strongly that our city lacks the means to pursue all the worthy opportunities before us."

Leukos the Accountant:

"NAY! Let us invite the Pythagoreans NOT to our fair city! For they are MAD!"

"Also... do not speak to them about the square root of two. You do NOT want to go there."

Also like if Zeus is annoyed with the city then honoring Prometheus might be kind of not-so-great an idea.

[X] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Obander Eupraxis (Demos Antipatria)

"I, Gregorios son of Alexius, remember watching the funeral of the great Eusebios only a few years ago. He led my father on many expeditions and it was the toils and courage of men like them, just as much as the designs of Drako the Elder, that forged our burgeoning Adriatic Empire. In the last elections the citizens decided to focus on issues facing the city on other fronts, and although I have not always agreed with this, the Demos Antipatria and the Demos Exoria have led Eretria to even greater glory. However now our dominance at sea is at risk. Should it be lost we would face a significant drop in trade, which has become an important source of income for our city. I thus urge the Ekklesia to not let the works of Eusebios and Drako be in vain. Let us make and ally of Kerkyra once more, but this time on our terms.

I see myself as a stalwart supporter of the Demos Drakonia, but this year I will not vote for their domestic policies. Not because I don't agree with their excellent ideas for colonial policies, but because I prefer the temple additions of the two other Demoi. In four years, when their prefered great work, the new harbor, is once again viable I will once again support them.

Thus I make my decision between the candidates of the Demoi Exoria and Antipatria for the office of Proboulos.
The Exorian domestic policies will ensure stable relationships with the Messapii. Both by building a temple to the goddess Artemis, whose glory is even known to the barbaroi, and by fostering closer trade ties with our subjects. These economic ties should also allow us to get some insight into the internal mood of the recently subjugated Messapii cities.

On the other hand the Antipatrian policies will continue the cultural growth of Eretria. They will also address the apparent faults in our phalanx. Additionally, by inviting the Pythagoreans to our city we might find new friends in all other Italiote cities."

[X] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Athenagoras Symmachos (Demos Drakonia)

Droman said:

Food for thought: Given the expansive nature of the Samnites, is it possible they might smash the Dauni for us, thus leaving us to do a repeat of the Messappii a few years down the line?

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In my opinion that is a quite possible scenario. I am actually not in favor of expending resources on subjugating the Dauni. They serve their role as a buffer to the tribes from the interior either way.

You know i think that we need to give temple to Hades.

[X] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Mnemnon Keylonos (Demos Exoria)

(Lets try to get into character. Where do I find possible names?)

Zotikos:

Honor the Divine Marriage! How could we statify Zeus if we build him a temple only as grand as his children? As godfather he will find statisfication in honouring his children in a way only a father can! So let us rise the temple of the Divine Marriage high!

(First atempt at an IC speech. I cringe reading it...)

OOC: dammit cetash, did you really have to take my favorite ideas and split them three ways

Thule said:

[X] Demos Drakonia

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You need to vote for candidates, not just a specific deme.

Portec said:

(Lets try to get into character. Where do I find possible names?)

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Random Name Generator

I use this one.

[X] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Obander Eupraxis (Demos Antipatria)

"My fellow citizens, when our phalanx clashed with that of Taras on the plains before their city, I was in the thick of it. To clash with the foe shield against shield, spear against spear, is the hardest test a man might face... and though we were victorious against the Tarentines, it was not our virtue which earned this victory, but good fortune, the bravery of our allies, and the cleverness of Epiktetos Linos. Our phalanx nearly broke! Where was the courage of the city's founding that day?!

It is intolerable!

Kyros Gennadios has vowed to see this deficiency in our phalanx addressed. I would give him the chance to do so."

- Thus speaks Carenos the Hoplite


"With regards to the issue of Kerkyra - remember that it is a city of interest to both Athenai and Lakedaimonia. Let us keep well away from any matter that might draw us into their wasteful and fruitless clash. Our attentions are better spent on seeking reconciliation with the Tarentines, who opposed us so valiantly on the fields before their city, and making friends among the Italiotes, whose interests align with ours and whose alliance might gain us much."

- Carenos the Hoplite

Mmmrhfh I hate hate hate postponing pirates why is everything on fire


But I think we need to deal with Taras asap and so yeah
And internally I like Divine Marriage and like the military reform so.


[X] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Obander Eupraxis (Demos Antipatria)

I noticed something was off with your numbers:
Oh wow, these difference are even smaller than I thought...

Anyway, too much effort was wasted in writing this post to delete it now, and you are stealing 0.1 Talents and a hoplite/cavalry/psilloi from us!
In all seriousness though, both of them are really, really minor, and they might simply be caused by rounding so, feel free to ignore them.

Spacegnom said:

Oh wow, these difference are even smaller than I thought...

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Probably just a result of the fact that the numbers are being rounded to 1 decimal place.

Well, we are spoiled for choices here aren't we? All of the options have some benefit and I am having a really hard time deciding with which to go. In many ways Drakonia is the demes I am most aligned with this year but while I love the new traders registry and the idea of strengthening our colonies I am unsure if this is the most pressing of matters right now though I guess you could argue that the sooner we start it the sooner we will see benefits. And as somebody who advocated for building up our "industry" its immigration policy seems promising. Not a big fan of its choice for the big temple though, seems a bit random, even if it could have interesting benefits down the line. And I am really unsure if we can afford to ignore the pirates and the opportunity for the amber monopoly for another five years and with us possibly establishing two additional colonies our control over the Adriatic would experience a significant growth. It also seems to work out stats wise though I would like a bit more friendliness for so many important mission to new people.

I would rank Antipatria internal polices to lowest of all three offered because while very interesting I don't think they necessarily target points we have to worry that much about anyhow, the theme there seems to strengthen our strengths even further and that is simply not my preferred way of doing things. I like their temple idea though and the mathematician's cult could have quite entertaining effects down the line ( or blow up horrendously). Foreign policy wise they have some very good points and I would really love to bury the hatchet with Taras and ensure solid relations with our allies in Sicily and I guess additional diplomatic relations with the other italiotes would be nice. After all without good allies we are kinda screwed and some effort now could save a lot lives later.

Exoria plans are the one I would go with if we hadn't other pressing matter to contend with since further strengthening our bonds with our allies would be nice and likely very helpful in any coming conflict. Their foreign policy is however a bit too aggressive for my tastes and don't think ignoring the Dauni is going to have catastrophic effects on us. I like their people though.


But in the end the combination of dealing with the pirates and setting as well as speeding up new colonies is to great to resist and I have to vote for the complete Drako platform.

[X] Proboulos: Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Athenagoras Symmachos (Demos Drakonia)