Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
[X] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Athenagoras Symmachos (Demos Drakonia)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Athenagoras Symmachos (Demos Drakonia)
Magna Graecia: Titanomachia (A City State Quest)
- Thread starter Cetashwayo
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
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- Tags
- ancient greece alternate history empire builder civ quest democracy gods save us granary management hubris it's an eretrian thing. let lose the weasels of war lithocracy lithocracy is my fetish maximum hellene my big fat greek divine wedding this granary aint gonna fill itself cetash unwinnable
- Location
- Luton Airport
As a Xenoparakletor we're sending to the Messapii, Mnemnon seems fairly ideal, being a rough and tumble frontier rancher type himself, with many virtues they should admire, able to build a rapport. Even his low Glory isn't terrible, what with a lot of our Glory-generating past events having involved slaughtering Messapii or their relatives in job lots...
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Obander may not be the most ideal for befriending another city, but is that the most important of our foreign goals were he to be chosen? No, I say, the crafting of a coalition would be the most important, for all must be made to remember the cruelty of the tyrants of syracuse, and Obander has the wisdom and glory to do so better than any other candidate. And Mnemnon, so ideal for dealings with our tributaries, may indeed be the least of the canidates when it comes to the use of spies, for he is well known to be as brash as a Stallion.
[X] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Obander Eupraxis (Demos Antipatria)
(OOC: It seems I am as prown to flip-flip as always)
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Leukos the Accountant:
Truly, stranger, yours are words of wisdom. I have been short-sighted. For is it not true that a man may achieve more through wise guidance and inspiration of other men, than by what he does in his own person? Perhaps we will fail to win the Messapii threatened by the Tarentines into our circle; perhaps we will succeed. It will be as the gods will. But better to have Greeks for friends, than barbarians."
[X] Proboulos: Theron Archippos (Demos Exoria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Obander Eupraxis (Demos Antipatria)
OOC:
You convinced me on the merits of the respective platforms.
Truly, stranger, yours are words of wisdom. I have been short-sighted. For is it not true that a man may achieve more through wise guidance and inspiration of other men, than by what he does in his own person? Perhaps we will fail to win the Messapii threatened by the Tarentines into our circle; perhaps we will succeed. It will be as the gods will. But better to have Greeks for friends, than barbarians."
[X] Proboulos: Theron Archippos (Demos Exoria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Obander Eupraxis (Demos Antipatria)
OOC:
You convinced me on the merits of the respective platforms.
If players continually want to do [insert cool thing here], and can't, because it's not in the right slate, this may begin to get frustrating. I don't know. In the last games there seemed to be a bit more freedom to craft policy, although admittedly, often that translated into more freedom for @Cavalier to craft policy.
I would allow some room for user motions, not perhaps in an explicit way, but perhaps in such a way that Demos will attempt to steal popular policies from rivals, perhaps twisting them to their own ends.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
If players continually want to do [insert cool thing here], and can't, because it's not in the right slate, this may begin to get frustrating. I don't know. In the last games there seemed to be a bit more freedom to craft policy, although admittedly, often that translated into more freedom for @Cavalier to craft policy.
I would allow some room for user motions, not perhaps in an explicit way, but perhaps in such a way that Demos will attempt to steal popular policies from rivals, perhaps twisting them to their own ends.
User motions are allowed, but I don't want players to be using them to have their cake and eat it too. The platform choices aren't there just to make hard decisions for players; there is a limited amount of stuff the city can do at one time, and what I can write at one time. The choices offered in an election already cover potentially six or more different votes in a four year period.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I think the main potential source of friction is the inability to mix-and-match between major infrastructure projects and other domestic policy issues.
Each of the three platforms for the speaker-to-foreigners represents a fairly cohesive and solid plan in its own right ("strengthen local position with barbarians, strengthen position with other Italiote city-states, strengthen maritime commercial position"). But there's more potential for desire to have an a la carte menu with domestic policy.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
I think the solution to this is just to have certain policies tied to specific offices, so that they can push forward a policy if they hold an office even if they don't hold the office of Proboulos.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Calling it now. Kyros wins Proboulos, Mnemnon wins Xenoparakletor. Congratulations to the lucky winners and to the voters for their first election.
I have decided to make the rolls for lower offices dependent on a combined vote for the Xenoparakletor and Proboulos. That means the final result is:
65 Antipatria, 54 Exoria, 29 Drakonia.
This will be applied to the rolls for each lower office as 44% chance for Demos Antipatria to take a lower office, 36% chance for Demos Exoria to take a lower office, and a 20% chance for Demos Drakonia.
I have decided to make the rolls for lower offices dependent on a combined vote for the Xenoparakletor and Proboulos. That means the final result is:
65 Antipatria, 54 Exoria, 29 Drakonia.
This will be applied to the rolls for each lower office as 44% chance for Demos Antipatria to take a lower office, 36% chance for Demos Exoria to take a lower office, and a 20% chance for Demos Drakonia.
That sounds like a really good idea.
Also I'm really excited for the next update.
One thing that occurred to me, and I'm sure it's been brought up before, is that lifting a stone large enough to support a man standing is the centerpiece of our political culture. Given that, a prerequisite for getting into politics in Eretria must be getting incredibly jacked. Also, some of our faction leaders are clearly in their fifties or sixties.
Imagine this stern sixty-year old who looks like he could fucking rip an ox in half coming to talk to you about a trade deal for malted barley.
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
That sounds like a really good idea.
Also I'm really excited for the next update.
One thing that occurred to me, and I'm sure it's been brought up before, is that lifting a stone large enough to support a man standing is the centerpiece of our political culture. Given that, a prerequisite for getting into politics in Eretria must be getting incredibly jacked. Also, some of our faction leaders are clearly in their fifties or sixties.
Imagine this stern sixty-year old who looks like he could fucking rip an ox in half coming to talk to you about a trade deal for malted barley.
Speak for yourself -- Kyrillos imported a pumice boulder.
Turn 2, 346 OL: Blowing Smoke
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Turn 2, 346 OL: Blowing Smoke
Attike, 346 OL
Archidamos II, King of Lakedaimon, was an old man. In that dignified old age, he had come to prefer the constancy of the Gods. Helios rode his fiery chariot across the sky during the day, and as the blanket of night slipped over the world, Selene's chariot spilled moonlight across her brother's well-worn path. Zeus loomed down on all and called for sacrifice, and the effigy of Artemis Orthia stood eternal upon the Eurotas, demanding dances from boys and choruses from girls. All was as it had always been, and would be.
Men were far more inscrutable. Though the Fates controlled the strings that bound men's lives, why those strings were cut was the province of mortal decision. So too the life and death of cities. Even the heroes who seized Troy all fell in time, their kingdoms disappeared to dust and memory, a lesser race of men bound to rule the earth. Where once there was the men of Messene, now there were helots, fit only for the yoke. Where once there were Argives, boastful and strong, now they were fettered and broken, living in the shadow of their former glories.
Where once there was Athenai...
In time, Lakedaimon, too, could fall. But the greatest flaw of all cities that become over-mighty is hubris. It was not enough that the Athenians were victorious over the Persians; they must also be victorious over the other Hellenes. It is not enough that Athens accepts its place; it must rise above Sparta, surpass it. Spartans did not carry such pretensions of grandeur. The constitution of Lykurgus had imparted all Spartiates not just with a respect for tradition, and the law, and the Gods, but a modesty, and this is why they would triumph and Athenai would not. Spartans had become masters over all Hellas through the realities of strength and will, not overconfidence in their themselves.
He had not wanted war. He had counseled against it before the Ephors and King Pausanias, not because he had any great love for Athenai, but because he saw the folly in embarking too early. Sparta had needed more time, more allies; not because Sparta was weak but because Athenai was strong. The city brimmed with citizens, teeming masses ready to die for their city, as all honorable men should. She further had the boon of silver from her mines and tribute from her subjects, and a fleet besides. So if the Spartans should face the Athenians, it should be on Spartan terms.
After all, If every Spartiate were to die like Leoniadas at Thermopylae, stalling to the last man, they would be legends throughout all Hellas, and they would also be dead. Comforting for the heroes of battle, to be sure, but better to fight for the sake of glorious victory than legendary defeat. If all have died, then there will be no one left to honor them.
Admittedly, there was a certain modesty to the Athenian strategy as well. Perikles, the clever man that he was, had forced this conflict and was even now raiding the Peloponnese, hoping for some victory in the Argolis. Meanwhile, he avoided a fight outside the walls, letting the Spartiates burn the olive groves and farms, letting the cowardly stream into the city. If Archidamos was younger, he would have shut the gates in the Athenian position, barked at the cravens without thought. Now, he saw the strategy.
Here, then, was some constancy. This was the second spring where the Spartans had descended upon Attike and the Athenians had fled behind their walls, raiding all the while. The only trouble remained the Athenian feathered riders. It would have been an embarrassment to call these riders, as the Athenians did, after the men of Eretria. Now there was excellence. Where once they had been dregs, fled from their city with their tails between their legs, now they had made well for themselves, yoking the barbarians of Italia, and it was thanks in whole to the fineness of their cavalry, near in skill to great Taras. Archidamos could respect that, for he was no arch-traditionalist who did not see the value in cavalry, but it was not the Spartan way. It was not the way that glory had been won. Centaurs may ride in Makedon and furthest Eretria, but here? The lands of Hellas were no place for horses, and before the shields of Lakedaimon they would always break or die mangled by the spear.
But still, if he extended charity, he could see the utility. These Hippeis Eskhata harassed his supplies, stole from his camps. When particularly cocky they thought to attack attendants out to drink. They had made a muck out of the first spring of war, and now they had grown better, more experienced, ranging against Boeotia and her stallions. They could never stop the Spartiate levy from laying waste to Attike, but they could cordon it, force him to withdraw to Boeotia if the route from Megara became endangered. It was a tactic he had not encountered before, and although he could never respect it, he could understand it. Some smaller number of farmers would have to flee and crowd the city, making it easier to feed. A setback.
Nevertheless, the campaign would go on. A few riders could not stop him, especially if he were to call for aid from Boeotian cavalry. Perikles could beg for Bosporan grain and nibble at the Argolis like a gnat on an ox's tail, but dishonor would force the Athenians once more to negotiate. Even the willowy men of Attike would come to realize that to continue on with the fires burning through their fields would be the height of humiliation. The people upon which the strategos relied on would in time desert him, and with that would go the city's will to fight.
As he thought all this, gazing down at the city from the military camp upon the south slope of Mount Parnes, there was a peculiar sight. Archidemos strained his eyes to see, and spotted smoke streaming from all around the city, individual columns billowing up towards the sunlit summer sky. He had seen the fires going up for several days, and had wondered if this was some special festival, but at such volume and so spread out throughout the city, it was almost as if they were...
Funeral pyres.
Goings on from around the Mediterranean, presented by Xenoparakletor Mnemnon Keylonos of the Demos Exoria
MNEMNON: Greeting, citizens! I bid you good tidings and well wishes, for you have chosen wisely and elected myself as xenoparakletor of all Eretria Eskhata, responsible for the abroad both near and far, of both tributary and equal. You have not chosen me however, simply for my passive duties, but the missions that I have promised to embark upon. As wise Antipatros, son of Lysandros, said in the last year, there is a necesisty for clarity and decisiveness in our actions. The world is full of great dangers and we must move to secure our place.
In this year I will head immediately to our subjects, Messapii, Peuketii, and members of the Epulian League, to see how goes the tidings there, with a report delivered at the beginning of the next year. In the next year I will also embark to the Messapii and seek out alliance among them, as well as to observe who is strong and who is weak among their men, and to build the bonds of fraternity between Eretrian and Barbaroi, in the spirit that was broken by the accursed Daxtus, oathbreaker, liar to Artemis. We can hope that after the catastrophe visited upon them by ourselves and Taras that the Messapii have grown wiser, and will not soon disobey their oaths again. In the year following that, I will dispatch a mission to Dauni lands, and ascertain their power and whether we can spot any weakness among them. If it must come to war, so be it; the Dauni deserve subjugation and the destruction of the memory of their accursed kings, and little else. The cities of Daunia will be granted the liberty that comes with the protection of fair Eretria, and at last Ausculos will no longer be able to tyrannize his subjects.
Now there are a number of matters to attend to. The honorable Kyros Gennadios, elected proboulos, will follow after me and speak to the concerns of the city. There is also a major embassy which we have received that will need tending to, and which I will open to the discussion of all citizens, for the urgency and necessity of this embassy is such that if I were to take the decision on my own, it would be an insult to the city, which all shares in the news and potentialities opened by this mission. Aside from this, I read to you now the news received from across the seas!
News from Hellas! The Gods do not look kindly upon Athenian hubris, and have abandoned them! In their wake, a terrible plague strikes the city. All good citizens of Eretria are to avoid the city of Athenai in the spring and summer months, and to pursue trade with her only in the autumn, when the disturbance of the humors that have encouraged this calamity have calmed. So goes the advice of Kallistos Kallikrates, doctor of Eretria, acting on the advice of Hippokrates of Kos, and advice we would do well to respect! The strategos Perikles remains unscathed, but the plague has forced Lakedaimon out of Attike, and all watch now the extent of the horror of this affliction. In Northern Hellas, the battle of Potidaea has come and gone, with Athenian victory over Korinthos! Brave soldiers of Athenai forced back the Korinthians, and it seems now there is little stopping her from quelling the rebellious polis. In the southwest of Hellas, the island of Zakynthos falls to Sparta.
News from the West! The Brutii raid and loot the borders of Thurii, and Thurii strikes back with equal force! Another dispute emerges between Krotone and Lokri, this time over a matter of crime by a citizen of Lokri in Krotone! In Sicily, the Sikeliote League has warned Syrakousai to stay away from the border stones of Megara Hyblaea, a member of their league! Syrakousai claims there was no violation, but the Sikeliotes wish to fine their rivals or else meet them on the field of battle! Syrakousai, the cowards, look liable to pay, rather than meet the might of the best of Sicily in battle! In Taras, the proboulos has been elected, called Myron Aristeides. He is a man of much renown in Taras, from a family that won glory in battle against the Messapii. They may yet begin war again, which makes our mission all the more urgent!
News from the North! The Illyrian pirates remain a nuisance, though one sure to disappear ever-soon! A merchant claims a shadow of a ship chasing him through the Adriatic, but arrives at Eretria unscathed! Poseidon guides our ships forward, and the people remain resolute that no pentekontor can hope to challenge the might of great Eretria at sea! The King Sitalces gathers his forces and prepares for a grand invasion of Makedon!
Goings on from within the city, presented by Proboulos Kyros Gennadios of the Demos Antipatria
KYROS: Citizens! We stand at a precipice. Before us lies the chasm of unbelief that has been so encouraged by past leaders, a lack of respect for the Gods. The Gods are those who carry us forward, from birth to death, and yet we do not respect them! The Gods, who listen to our prayers and grant our city the prosperity we have come to know, and yet we do not respect them! The Antipatrids respect the Gods. I respect the Gods. That is why now we pursue the greatest honour to the Gods; dedicating great monuments and treasures to them! The plan for the reconstruction of the Hill of the Divine Marriage is as follows. We will bring out the treasures and statues from the hill, and transfer the temples on its top towards the ground. Then we shall raise the hill, so it looms more above the city, with dirt and stone collected and placed to elevate the structure further. Then we will rebuild the temples, one by one; first the temple of Zeus, then the temple of Poseidon & Demeter, and then finally the Temple of the Divine Marriage, which we shall reward with new name. In the process we shall also clean the hill and make it a place of beauty, with pools and stone-paved roads. This is what we shall do, because we honor the Gods!
There is further reason for this construction. Many of the citizens and metics of good Eretria have come in recent years to suffer from the debts and difficulties that have besotten those less prosperous in the city. The wealth that Demos Drakonia gave so freely to its friends and partners it did not share with the citizens, but now there will be wealth to go around, for it shall be citizens and metics who shall rebuild this hill, and give sanctity to their work! Some say the wage laborer, the man who relies on others for their work, is a man who cannot be truly free. But the man who receives his wages from the city is expressing his freedom beyond measure!
Now there are also other concerns. In the first place we must dispatch our agents to Hellas and search for more metics to bring glory to our city. For this we must choose among the regions where we wish to recuit from. Then there is also the metic assembly, which will now present its grievances, with the acceptance of the assembly and the Prytanis Timotaios Herais, a citizen of good standing and a friend of the Antipatrids, who has been appointed to represent them for the sake of this presentation to the assembly. This is all that will take place in the city as has been planned by Demos Antipatria, and with hope all shall be met with good fortune. The city's treasury grows, and our expenses shan't even place us into deficit, allowing us not to worry about the danger of paupery with our new constructions.
Further, here are the results of the elections and attendant offices chosen by lot!
Xenoparakletor: Mnemnon Keylonos (Demos Exoria)
Lead Strategos: Only appointed in times of war.
Metic Prytanis: Timotaios Herais (Demos Antipatria), elected by the Metics.
Agoranomos: Arkadios Ambrosios (Demos Antipatria), chosen by lot.
Assembly of the Mint: Paramonos Diokles (Demos Antipatria), chosen by lot.
Chief of Public Lands: Arsenios Hermagoras (Demos Exoria), chosen by lot.
Grand Mantis: Polykarpos Lykos (Demos Antipatria), chosen by lot.
Elder Ekdromos: Alexandros Hilarion (Demos Exoria), chosen by lot.
Foreign Policy: The Epidamnian Emissaries
The city of Epidamnos had never had the greatest of luck. When the Eretrian trickster and deceitful exile Leontios left the city he had left in political chaos with a new demokratia ruling over it. However, the democratic factions in the city and the surviving oligarchs brawled and battled for control over decades, neither truly defeating the other. In the end, it was an uneasy peace that was suddenly broken by the intervention of Korinthos, its mother colony. With the aid of the oligarchs Korinthos seized the city of Epidamnos and killed many members of its democratic government. Those that survived fled to Lissos, while a few went to the Parthini and continued the fight in conjunction with Kerkyra against Korinthos' play for dominance in the Ionian sea. Now, the remainder of the Democrats have arrived in Eretria, and the city must make make a choice...
There is a debate between the leaders of the factions before the floor is opened to the assembly.
MNEMNON: Citizens of Eretria Eskhata! You are called to assembly for a special session for the sake of critical news. For four years the city of Korinthos has held its former colony of Epidamnos, once a free and prosperous place, under its grip, having seized it during a spat with Kerkyra, another former colony. The free citizens of Epidamnos who loved liberty and despised tyranny have fled, some to the Illyrians and others to neighboring cities. Among those who fled to Lissos, another Adriatic colony of Hellenes, was the proboulos of the city, whose powers were modeled on our constitution.
ATHENAGORAS: A fine constitution indeed!
MNEMNON: Aye. And so they have been there for the past four years, but now they come to us. With the war between Athenai and Lakedaimon in full swing, the Epidamnians hope to return home in time. They do not wish to foment revolution, but instead to seek refuge in Eretria Eskhata. They fear that the people of Lissos would turn them over to Korinthos, fearful as they are of the wrath of Korinthos, but believe that the city of Eretria is not fearful, and are they not correct? But yet, I fear in their good intentions and hopes for the liberty of their homes, they may yet turn the eyes of Hellas to us, and attract attention that we do not wish.
OBANDER: And further, use us as a shield for their own ambitions.
ATHENAGORAS: An uncharitable observation, citizen! An uncharitable observation indeed. Who are we to turn away those who seek refuge? Can we forget that once there was a time when we sought refuge, and the Epidamnians opened their harbor to us, desperate and begging that we were, and allowed us to survive?
OBANDER: I also recall, some time later, that an ambitious group of Epidamnians attempted to convince our citizens to help them in some petty takeover that they had planned. Beware an Epidamnian seeking aid, I say.
MNEMNON: They seem like men of good spirit and honesty.
OBANDER: But I do not know them. You do not know them either, Xenoparakletor, and who are you to say as well to their good intentions, Athenagoras? I do not trust men who come from the east bringing promises of alliance and friendship. Eretria Eskhata has not become the city that it is by turning east.
ATHENAGORAS: Indeed, except for its vast trading networks, which include those shipments of grain and other staples which we dispatch across the Adriatic Sea...
MNEMNON: Citizens, citizens, please. Let us not argue so much. Let us instead each state our case. I would say first of all that we should take them, but I should also caution that it is not in our best interest to become involved in Hellas. The reason we should take these Epidamnians is instead to extend a greeting to a fellow and to have the opportunity to develop a friend across the sea once more, and one not tainted by dishonor as Kerkyra was. Furthermore, it will send a strong warning to Korinthos that their recent behavior in the sea has been unacceptable, without cost to Eretria, so that we might not shoulder the cost of a war against half of Hellas, and instead use this as a boon to reveal our strength and interest in the unacceptable affairs of Korinthos. I think that, as the accountant Leukos, one of the citizens in the assembly said during a debate in the prior year, that it is wise to choose when to be passionate and when to be prudent, and here it is best we be prudent and without passion in how we choose.
OBANDER: You speak in terms of half-measures and a lack of cost. One would think a man of horses would understand that everything comes with a cost and that the first step to riding is to own a saddle. I would say instead that there is a great deal of assumption here, assumption which cannot be proven, that we will not be dragged into war. We must instead think to the fact that Eretria is not a city which has ever won by looking east. When we looked east in the Ionian revolt, we were thrown out of our country, and forced to arrive here in Italia. It is the west that has saved and the east which has harmed us. The Kerkyrans, which forced us to betray our ally, came from the east. All that is ill and unfortunate has come from Hellas and its neighbors, and we would be better off restricting ourselves and our activities to the upper Adriatic and to Italia, where we have become wealthy, strong, and respected, and could be moreso if only we did not entrust pampered merchants to safeguard our reputation and represent our farmers. Kyrillos, him who is sometimes called salt-lover, knows the truth of the matter; that we cannot sit and ponder trade when death itself walks near to our shores. Now is the time for decisiveness, not careful plotting.
ATHENAGORAS: There is a man among the citizenry. He speaks often and speaks well. But his name is odd, is it not? Hermesdora Eretriazenis. A most peculiar name. He is of Thracian stock. Was, at the least. No doubt the grandson of some emancipated slave, walking and talking among us like a normal Hellene. Extraordinary. And now he is Eretrian. He is honored! And yet where is Thrake? To the east. And where are we all from? To the east. To claim that from the east comes every ill thing would be terribly Exorian of you, Obander, for is that not the opinion of the Iapygian goat-men who believe that our arrival here was equivalent in catastrophe to the arrival of the Kalydonian boar in Aetolia? Perhaps they should begin worshipping an Atalanta to come and save them from us, to slay us all? It would suit their ways, I suppose, to seek rescue from a woman. Or perhaps we should instead accept that we are children of the east who have settled in the west, and we cannot divorce ourselves from the happenings of Hellas. No one is asking us to plunge deep into the bosom of our fellows, or even to make war against the Korinthians, though they to be sure deserve it. Instead, what is being asked, at this moment, is to secure one set of paltry exiles and allow them safe harbor at Eretria, from which we may yet receive immeasurable goodwill. Surely as a farmer, Obander, you understand the purpose of reaping what you sow?
MNEMNON: I thank you for your words, citizens. Now, as is customary, the assembly has the floor.
Should the city of Eretria Eskhata host the remnants of Epidamnos' rightful democratic government and give them sanctuary?
[] [Epidamnians] Eretria Eskhata should host them. They are the representatives of liberty, and do not wish to cause trouble besides. They have conducted themselves honorably, and present advantage to Eretria without creating a route to war.
[] [Epidamnians] Eretria Eskhata should send them away. Every step we take away from neutrality is a step we take to conflict. No matter the cost and no matter how simple it seems to be, we must not get involved under any circumstances in the squabbles of Hellas.
Immigration Policy: Sourcing Labour
Eretria's strength flows from her growing reserves of manpower. Whereas other cities, and even western colonies, are reliant on the natural increase of her citizens and the fickle bounty of Demeter to grow, Eretria has grown in large part thanks to the expansion of her population of metics. Where many Hellenes outright refuse the admission of foreigners into their boundaries, Eretria has provided them special legal guarantees and even, after pressure, an assembly, extraordinary among the Hellenes. However, all of this is not out of altruism. Eretria is dependent on metic labor in lieu of slaves, and indeed, Metics make up a far more complicated strata of her reserve of labor than in other cities. Where in Athenai, metics often fulfill specialized roles like those of artisans and craftsmen, in Eretria metics come from every single walk of life.
To achieve the meteoric growth the city has obtained, however, Demos Drakonia and the other Demoi did not simply sit and wait. Using Eretria's considerable financial resources, they instead toured the whole of Hellas and attracted immigrants that way. But there are different emissaries and strategies used to draw immigrants. In the past, Eretria has mainly recruited for manpower, to fill its territory and reduce the price of labor. But there could be other reasons to recruit immigrants; to gain unique talent from across Hellas, to secure the loyalty of the Metics already there, to strengthen the city's trade and manufacturing sectors, such as they are. As with the Athenians, the citizen service of Eretria is known to dabble in business and oikonomia from time to time, and a healthy respect for the realities of money have given the city great success in the past.
Now, with the war beginning, there are unparalleled opportunities to attract those fearful of war or hungry for peace. Eretria must not bring forward a generation of cravens, but certainly even the most brave man will from time to time be overcome with a lust for home and stability. If Eretria is to be that home, a metic's home, then all the better to the glory of the city, which cannot otherwise compete with its neighbors, the numerous Lucanians and the capable Tarentines, not to mention the states of Hellas. Why can the folly of the east not be the triumph of the west? Is that not what the city of Eretria was found upon?
Who can say, if not the assembly, and so the question turns to it.
What particular attribute should Eretria Eskhata's emissaries be looking for in immigrants?
[] [Immigration] Talent. The city cannot waste its time searching for the barest and most boorish men. If the city is to become one of glory and renown among all Hellenes, then it must attract those who are made of finer stuff; artisans, professionals, intellectuals and playwrights who can make Eretria a true hub of culture [If successful, lower number of high-skill immigrants with the chance to eventually produce another luxury trade route].
[] [Immigration] Loyalty. What good are fieldhands who plot against you, or artists who sing one song among citizens and another among metics? If the city is to grow, it needs those who are loyal and grateful. Look among the refugees of war, or those from old Euboaea, and those who embrace Eretria's vision and government [If successful, random assortment of immigrants grateful to the city with random effects].
Metic Policy: Presenting of the Grievances
The Metic Assembly is an irregularly called for body that may be requested by the ekklesia to speak from time to time and present the grievance of the Metics. In the past, the Demos Drakonia have let the assembly's voice lapse, and ignored the requests of Metics to renew it, but the Antipatrids are known to be friends of Metics and so are better suited to deal fairly with them. And so, Kyros Gennadios, Proboulos of the Antipatrid Deme, has called them to speak. They have accordingly elected an Eretrian citizen to lead them, the craftsman Timotaios. When he speaks, he does so from a rock covered in straw, representing the rock of the Metics. He is the last in a line going back to Kyriakos, who served as a permanent representative for some thirty-two years before the entire process was reformed, and permanent representatives no longer existed.
With it being so long since the previous assembly was called, it is likely that this particular ledger of grievances will be a lively one.
KYROS: The Prytanis has the floor. While he speaks, let no man interrupt him, or be beaten with sticks for a sacrilegious crime.
PRYTANIS TIMOTAIOS: I thank you. Thank you. I must admit, I am little more than the servant of the assembly of the people, and before the people do I bring bearing the grievances of the Metics, presented with their love and their compassion for the people to which they are subordinate to. I speak on behalf of them only as their mouthpiece; through my mouth their words are transmitted, and the sanctity of the assembly is upheld, to restrict it only to the people.
The Metics have met upon their assembly field outside the Gate of Feathers, and they have convened, and they have argued. Among themselves they have decided upon five grievances, of which they designate two as major of those that they hold, and three as minor, matters of honor or pride! Grievance the first, oh my, but this is-yes, yes, of course.
Grievance the first, is that the Metics are...embarassed, and humiliated, by the representation that they are given. For the city has thousands to speak for it, but the metics have none! That man who speaks for the metics, well, hmm, excuse me a moment- yes. That man who speaks for the metic is a fool, and I must repeat, I am only a mouthpiece, of course. Now, that man who speaks for the metics is a fool, for he is not a metic. How can a man who is not among the people speak for the people? Would the assembly have a metic speak for it? No! Then why should the assembly dispatch a citizen to speak for the Metics! As is only fair and just, the Metics understand their place, and know they are below the people. We are nothing if not loyal, but how can we express their loyalty when we are forced to speak through others? Allow the Metics to appoint our own representative when the assembly is called, and we will show you the deep extent of our loyalty and love for Eretria.
Grievance the second, is that the Metics are frustrated, confused, by the opportunities they are given to present their grievances. Some times they are called forward five times in just as many years, another time once after ten years. It is unfair to both Citizens and Metics that the Metics are given only such limited opportunities to speak, for the citizens who wish to hear them out must wait, and the Metics who wish to be heard must wait, also. Instead, would it not be fairer to all if the Metics were allowed to speak once every eight years, on a schedule, which both Citizen and Metic can follow? And then the Metic and the Citizen will understand each other better, and be without fear and confusion, for each will know the time of listening.
Grievance the third, is that Metic father have been rendered unmanly. In their own homes in Hellas the father had the powers of divorce over his beloved daughter as did any Hellene father, to divorce when the husband had been cruel, or when she had become an heiress, to ensure the prosperity of his children and grandchildren. But in Eretria the father has no such power, and so while citizen fathers hold their heads high and smile, for they know they can protect their daughters, Metic fathers hold their heads low and their manhoods shrivel, for they can do nothing but stand by as their own blood is subject to cruelty or robbery. It is an outrageous attack on us that heavenly Zeus can ensure the safety of his children but the earthly father is unable to act against the whims of the husband.
Grievance the fourth, is that Metics fight and die for the city, but the city gives them little recompense. For some of us who are heroes we are given equal rights, which is to say that our liabilities and burdens are lifted and we are taxed at lesser rates. But how can the city of Eretria imagine, the city that granted all of its citizens citizenship upon arrival and freed even the slaves, providing freemen who do acts of heroism with only petty privileges? The man who has carried for Eretria not just his spear and shield, but the burden of his status, should upon an act of herosim be granted freedom from that status, to know what it is to be among the people and to participate in true demokratia which all of we love. We do not ask to break the limit of citizen and Metic, but to allow us to aspire and ascend should we show ourselves to be of a stock that even fair Antipater and stalwart Herodion would have been proud of.
Grievance the fifth, that Metics are not treated fairly upon juries because the juries are staffed only by citizens. Many citizens in these juries are given the opportunity to insult or jeer at Metics who have been put before a stand, and yet despite our requests and pleas the city has always refused to allow us to have our own courts for our own offenses. And so, if the city is insistent on allowing a single court for all offenses, this is fair, but let us also be represented on the juries only in those cases where we are on trial. We need not be all the jurors, or even a majority, but if we are not able to plead our case not just as the guilty but the judging, then we are placed at a disadvantage before the law.
All of these are the grievances of the Metic Assembly in the first year of Kyros & Mnemnon, under the representation of the honored Prytanis Timotaios. It is now open to the assembly to debate the grievances.
The Metic Assembly is an irregularly called for body that may be requested by the ekklesia to speak from time to time and present the grievance of the Metics. In the past, the Demos Drakonia have let the assembly's voice lapse, and ignored the requests of Metics to renew it, but the Antipatrids are known to be friends of Metics and so are better suited to deal fairly with them. And so, Kyros Gennadios, Proboulos of the Antipatrid Deme, has called them to speak. They have accordingly elected an Eretrian citizen to lead them, the craftsman Timotaios. When he speaks, he does so from a rock covered in straw, representing the rock of the Metics. He is the last in a line going back to Kyriakos, who served as a permanent representative for some thirty-two years before the entire process was reformed, and permanent representatives no longer existed.
With it being so long since the previous assembly was called, it is likely that this particular ledger of grievances will be a lively one.
KYROS: The Prytanis has the floor. While he speaks, let no man interrupt him, or be beaten with sticks for a sacrilegious crime.
PRYTANIS TIMOTAIOS: I thank you. Thank you. I must admit, I am little more than the servant of the assembly of the people, and before the people do I bring bearing the grievances of the Metics, presented with their love and their compassion for the people to which they are subordinate to. I speak on behalf of them only as their mouthpiece; through my mouth their words are transmitted, and the sanctity of the assembly is upheld, to restrict it only to the people.
The Metics have met upon their assembly field outside the Gate of Feathers, and they have convened, and they have argued. Among themselves they have decided upon five grievances, of which they designate two as major of those that they hold, and three as minor, matters of honor or pride! Grievance the first, oh my, but this is-yes, yes, of course.
Grievance the first, is that the Metics are...embarassed, and humiliated, by the representation that they are given. For the city has thousands to speak for it, but the metics have none! That man who speaks for the metics, well, hmm, excuse me a moment- yes. That man who speaks for the metic is a fool, and I must repeat, I am only a mouthpiece, of course. Now, that man who speaks for the metics is a fool, for he is not a metic. How can a man who is not among the people speak for the people? Would the assembly have a metic speak for it? No! Then why should the assembly dispatch a citizen to speak for the Metics! As is only fair and just, the Metics understand their place, and know they are below the people. We are nothing if not loyal, but how can we express their loyalty when we are forced to speak through others? Allow the Metics to appoint our own representative when the assembly is called, and we will show you the deep extent of our loyalty and love for Eretria.
Grievance the second, is that the Metics are frustrated, confused, by the opportunities they are given to present their grievances. Some times they are called forward five times in just as many years, another time once after ten years. It is unfair to both Citizens and Metics that the Metics are given only such limited opportunities to speak, for the citizens who wish to hear them out must wait, and the Metics who wish to be heard must wait, also. Instead, would it not be fairer to all if the Metics were allowed to speak once every eight years, on a schedule, which both Citizen and Metic can follow? And then the Metic and the Citizen will understand each other better, and be without fear and confusion, for each will know the time of listening.
Grievance the third, is that Metic father have been rendered unmanly. In their own homes in Hellas the father had the powers of divorce over his beloved daughter as did any Hellene father, to divorce when the husband had been cruel, or when she had become an heiress, to ensure the prosperity of his children and grandchildren. But in Eretria the father has no such power, and so while citizen fathers hold their heads high and smile, for they know they can protect their daughters, Metic fathers hold their heads low and their manhoods shrivel, for they can do nothing but stand by as their own blood is subject to cruelty or robbery. It is an outrageous attack on us that heavenly Zeus can ensure the safety of his children but the earthly father is unable to act against the whims of the husband.
Grievance the fourth, is that Metics fight and die for the city, but the city gives them little recompense. For some of us who are heroes we are given equal rights, which is to say that our liabilities and burdens are lifted and we are taxed at lesser rates. But how can the city of Eretria imagine, the city that granted all of its citizens citizenship upon arrival and freed even the slaves, providing freemen who do acts of heroism with only petty privileges? The man who has carried for Eretria not just his spear and shield, but the burden of his status, should upon an act of herosim be granted freedom from that status, to know what it is to be among the people and to participate in true demokratia which all of we love. We do not ask to break the limit of citizen and Metic, but to allow us to aspire and ascend should we show ourselves to be of a stock that even fair Antipater and stalwart Herodion would have been proud of.
Grievance the fifth, that Metics are not treated fairly upon juries because the juries are staffed only by citizens. Many citizens in these juries are given the opportunity to insult or jeer at Metics who have been put before a stand, and yet despite our requests and pleas the city has always refused to allow us to have our own courts for our own offenses. And so, if the city is insistent on allowing a single court for all offenses, this is fair, but let us also be represented on the juries only in those cases where we are on trial. We need not be all the jurors, or even a majority, but if we are not able to plead our case not just as the guilty but the judging, then we are placed at a disadvantage before the law.
All of these are the grievances of the Metic Assembly in the first year of Kyros & Mnemnon, under the representation of the honored Prytanis Timotaios. It is now open to the assembly to debate the grievances.
In order for the presenting of the grievances to be considered a success by the Metic Assembly, at least one major reform and one minor reform must be granted. The more reforms granted, the more pleased the metics will be, but granting all the reforms may anger a minority of citizens who feel the assembly is capitulating and undermining their status.
Vote for as many or as few reforms as you like.
Major Reform: Should the city allow Metics to elect a Prytanis among themselves who will be able to speak at the assembly on their behalf, rather than relying on a citizen?
[] [Prytanis] Allow them to elect a Prytanis among themselves.
[] [Prytanis] The Prytanis will remain a chosen citizen.
Major Reform: Should the city allow Metics to present their grievances in a regular fashion, once every eight years?
[] [Standardization] Allow a standard presentation of grievances every eight years, counting from 346 OL.
[] [Standardization] The assembly should be called and grievances accepted only when the assembly decides.
Minor Reform: Should the city allow the same rights in marriage to the Metic father as to the citizen father?
[] [Marriage] Reform the laws so the Metic Father has the same rights in the marriage of his daughter.
[] [Marriage] To place the Metic father at the same level as his citizen counterpart as unacceptable.
Minor Reform: Should the city allow the occasional bestowal of citizenship in cases of heroism?
[] [Citizenship] If the city should bound citizenship grants by strict rules, then Metic heroes should be given it.
[] [Citizenship] Metic heroes should be celebrated by having their burdens and restrictions lifted, not a reward of citizenship.
Minor Reform: Should the city allow Metics to appear on juries where their peers are being prosecuted?
[] [Juries] Allow Metics to appear on the city's juries if the situation involves their peers as defendent.
[] [Juries] Citizens are just as good a judge as metics, and there is no need to involve them.
Voting is now open. Please be sure to maintain the bracketed title (e.g [Juries]) for each vote; they will allow me to separate votes by task, which will make keeping track of things much easier.
Do not use plan votes.
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Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
IC: Skantarios the Hoplite says: Better the metics remain divided, but content.
OOC: I don't want the Prytanis to become a parallel power structure allowing someone to unify the metics. The rest of their requests are reasonable.
[X] [Prytanis] The Prytanis will remain a chosen citizen.
[X] [Standardization] Allow a standard presentation of grievances every eight years, counting from 346 OL.
[X] [Marriage] Reform the laws so the Metic Father has the same rights in the marriage of his daughter.
[X] [Citizenship] If the city should bound citizenship grants by strict rules, then Metic heroes should be given it.
[X] [Juries] Allow Metics to appear on the city's juries if the situation involves their peers as defendent.
OOC: I don't want the Prytanis to become a parallel power structure allowing someone to unify the metics. The rest of their requests are reasonable.
[X] [Prytanis] The Prytanis will remain a chosen citizen.
[X] [Standardization] Allow a standard presentation of grievances every eight years, counting from 346 OL.
[X] [Marriage] Reform the laws so the Metic Father has the same rights in the marriage of his daughter.
[X] [Citizenship] If the city should bound citizenship grants by strict rules, then Metic heroes should be given it.
[X] [Juries] Allow Metics to appear on the city's juries if the situation involves their peers as defendent.
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NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
Personally I'm leaning towards hosting the Epidamnians and going talent for the immigration.
The metics seem to want pretty reasonable things right now, but giving them everything might cause trouble among citizens...
Giving heroes citizenship seems like a good idea at the very least if anyone truly exceptional does show up as a metic it lets us claim them as a true Eretrian.
The metics seem to want pretty reasonable things right now, but giving them everything might cause trouble among citizens...
Giving heroes citizenship seems like a good idea at the very least if anyone truly exceptional does show up as a metic it lets us claim them as a true Eretrian.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
....This is a very very delicate issue. I can absolutely agree to the Standardisation and Prytanis reform, it going further than that, and indeed directly causing conflict with the direct rights of citizens, namely gifting Metics equal rights directly to citizens, is dangerous when it comes to breeding resentment.
The first two don't overly step on Citizenship rights, and indeed don't seem to be a 'threat' there may be some grumbling about Metics not being directly influenced by the citizens as much, but it's manageable. It causes some political changes, but not rights changes. They are major reforms, but they're not offensive or intrusive
My first instinct is to allow ally he major reforms, but outright deny the minor ones. I'll need to think on this more
The first two don't overly step on Citizenship rights, and indeed don't seem to be a 'threat' there may be some grumbling about Metics not being directly influenced by the citizens as much, but it's manageable. It causes some political changes, but not rights changes. They are major reforms, but they're not offensive or intrusive
My first instinct is to allow ally he major reforms, but outright deny the minor ones. I'll need to think on this more
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- Location
- United States
Yeah, we gotta keep in mind the Metics are second-class citizens. The plebs, if you will. At the end of the day, political power belongs to real citizens.
This is completely reasonable and honestly just a good idea.
Eh, this doesn't seem like it matters much, at least in comparison to everything else. Leave it out as an easy way to keep our citizens happy.
This is a good idea. I've always beleived we should have a way to let the best and brightest (or wealthiest and most powerful) of the metics to make the jump.
Another eh, but justice is important. I'd add it in.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
[X] [Prytanis] The Prytanis will remain a chosen citizen.
[x] [Standardization] Allow a standard presentation of grievances every eight years, counting from 346 OL.
[x] [Marriage] To place the Metic father at the same level as his citizen counterpart as unacceptable.
[x] [Citizenship] If the city should bound citizenship grants by strict rules, then Metic heroes should be given it.
Not sure on what I'll vote for on the Jury, it seems like it might be seen as overly intrusive on the idea of Citizenship. And the idea Citizens rule the city.
[x] [Standardization] Allow a standard presentation of grievances every eight years, counting from 346 OL.
[x] [Marriage] To place the Metic father at the same level as his citizen counterpart as unacceptable.
[x] [Citizenship] If the city should bound citizenship grants by strict rules, then Metic heroes should be given it.
Not sure on what I'll vote for on the Jury, it seems like it might be seen as overly intrusive on the idea of Citizenship. And the idea Citizens rule the city.
- Location
- United States
[X] [Epidamnians] Eretria Eskhata should host them. They are the representatives of liberty, and do not wish to cause trouble besides. They have conducted themselves honorably, and present advantage to Eretria without creating a route to war.
These people have a reputation for being stupid and shifty, but a way to fuck with Korinthos is a way to fuck with Korinthos.
[X] [Immigration] Manpower. What the city needs above all is people, to work its fields and fight its wars. The emissaries of the city ought to look for healthy, hale, and strong men who would be willing to come to Eretria to work as tenant labourers for merchants and farmers. These men shall girdle the city and be the legs that carry it forward [If successful, higher number of low-skill immigrants with higher overall immigration].
We don't need more capable and unhappy metics, we need more plebs to till the fields and fill the ranks. That's what they're for.
[X] [Prytanis] The Prytanis will remain a chosen citizen.
[X] [Standardization] Allow a standard presentation of grievances every eight years, counting from 346 OL.
[X] [Marriage] To place the Metic father at the same level as his citizen counterpart as unacceptable.
[X] [Citizenship] If the city should bound citizenship grants by strict rules, then Metic heroes should be given it.
[X] [Juries] Allow Metics to appear on the city's juries if the situation involves their peers as defendent.
Outlined my reasoning above, but at the end of the day it's making them happy without giving them power and losing face to our citizens.
These people have a reputation for being stupid and shifty, but a way to fuck with Korinthos is a way to fuck with Korinthos.
[X] [Immigration] Manpower. What the city needs above all is people, to work its fields and fight its wars. The emissaries of the city ought to look for healthy, hale, and strong men who would be willing to come to Eretria to work as tenant labourers for merchants and farmers. These men shall girdle the city and be the legs that carry it forward [If successful, higher number of low-skill immigrants with higher overall immigration].
We don't need more capable and unhappy metics, we need more plebs to till the fields and fill the ranks. That's what they're for.
[X] [Prytanis] The Prytanis will remain a chosen citizen.
[X] [Standardization] Allow a standard presentation of grievances every eight years, counting from 346 OL.
[X] [Marriage] To place the Metic father at the same level as his citizen counterpart as unacceptable.
[X] [Citizenship] If the city should bound citizenship grants by strict rules, then Metic heroes should be given it.
[X] [Juries] Allow Metics to appear on the city's juries if the situation involves their peers as defendent.
Outlined my reasoning above, but at the end of the day it's making them happy without giving them power and losing face to our citizens.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Remember not to miss the earlier votes on immigration and Epidamnians.
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
[X] [Epidamnians] Eretria Eskhata should host them. They are the representatives of liberty, and do not wish to cause trouble besides. They have conducted themselves honorably, and present advantage to Eretria without creating a route to war.
[X] [Immigration] Loyalty. What good are fieldhands who plot against you, or artists who sing one song among citizens and another among metics? If the city is to grow, it needs those who are loyal and grateful. Look among the refugees of war, or those from old Euboaea, and those who embrace Eretria's vision and government [If successful, random assortment of immigrants grateful to the city with random effects].
[X] [Prytanis] The Prytanis will remain a chosen citizen.
- [X] So long as at least one exists, that citizen shall be one who was raised from the ranks of the metics
[X] [Standardization] Allow a standard presentation of grievances every eight years, counting from 346 OL.
[X] [Marriage] Reform the laws so the Metic Father has the same rights in the marriage of his daughter.
[X] [Citizenship] If the city should bound citizenship grants by strict rules, then Metic heroes should be given it.
[X] [Juries] Allow Metics to appear on the city's juries if the situation involves their peers as defendent.
I'd like to propose a slight modification to the appointment of a Prytanis, as per above.
Also, the marriage thing is one that I think isn't quite as straightforward as it seems, because it's likely to lead to problems in situations where a metic woman marries a citizen and her father disagrees. Not sure if there's a way to take that into account that doesn't lead to further problems, though I'd be tempted to just say that a metic woman who marries a citizen has by definition married into his family and thus her citizen father-in-law is the one who has the right of divorce.
[X] [Immigration] Loyalty. What good are fieldhands who plot against you, or artists who sing one song among citizens and another among metics? If the city is to grow, it needs those who are loyal and grateful. Look among the refugees of war, or those from old Euboaea, and those who embrace Eretria's vision and government [If successful, random assortment of immigrants grateful to the city with random effects].
[X] [Prytanis] The Prytanis will remain a chosen citizen.
- [X] So long as at least one exists, that citizen shall be one who was raised from the ranks of the metics
[X] [Standardization] Allow a standard presentation of grievances every eight years, counting from 346 OL.
[X] [Marriage] Reform the laws so the Metic Father has the same rights in the marriage of his daughter.
[X] [Citizenship] If the city should bound citizenship grants by strict rules, then Metic heroes should be given it.
[X] [Juries] Allow Metics to appear on the city's juries if the situation involves their peers as defendent.
I'd like to propose a slight modification to the appointment of a Prytanis, as per above.
Also, the marriage thing is one that I think isn't quite as straightforward as it seems, because it's likely to lead to problems in situations where a metic woman marries a citizen and her father disagrees. Not sure if there's a way to take that into account that doesn't lead to further problems, though I'd be tempted to just say that a metic woman who marries a citizen has by definition married into his family and thus her citizen father-in-law is the one who has the right of divorce.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Re this write-in suggestion: This is likely to happen already, given Metics elect their citizen representative.
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- Location
- Mists of Albion
Dude, even with the Pyranis vote, which doesn't really change much at all, you're kind of giving them everything they wan't immediately, which won't be popular amongst the citizenry or public order. Citizenship and it's rights are still notably sacred. It's best if we don't intrude too much.
[X] [Epidamnians] Eretria Eskhata should host them.
[X] [Immigration] Manpower.
[X] [Prytanis] The Prytanis will remain a chosen citizen.
[X] [Standardization] Allow a standard presentation of grievances every eight years, counting from 346 OL.
[X] [Marriage] To place the Metic father at the same level as his citizen counterpart as unacceptable.
[X] [Citizenship] If the city should bound citizenship grants by strict rules, then Metic heroes should be given it.
[X] [Juries] Allow Metics to appear on the city's juries if the situation involves their peers as defendant.