- Location
- Canada (eh)
Sorry Azel, I didn't mean that as a personal attack or sound accusatory. But it does feel similar to me and I thought you would understand considering your reactions to those votes before.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
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- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
No, not really.
The reasonable logic dictates that killing them now, or at any point throughout Conclave is a terrible idea, as they'd become Martyrs.
Killing them long before it wasn't possible due to lack of time, and (Lycan) gaining Mindblank, or (Danelle) being in inopportune positions for us to contact them at the time.
I'll bet you, they know we can't kill them just like that, not without us compromising our own plans by making Faith only stronger.
And as for concessions...
If they will throw Morality in our face, and accepting it would be he last thing needed to actually get a compromise...
Will we not accept it? Will we really?
I have serious doubt, that after spending multiple updates arguing and taking this shit, this seemingly minor decision will be something that will have us say "Fuck No", turn dragon, and eat their heads.
Only, it really isn't minor for me.
I have always had problems with these sort of decisions, and merely sighting the possibility of one happening makes me go in cold sweat.
- Location
- Germany
I do. I kept agonizing about this very thing since yesterday.
- Location
- Castle
Honestly we are at some kind of impasse on a few things.
Sure our expectations were subverted in an acceptable way but there is a few too many questions.
Like the issue of Baelor kinda of attacking us and the Father sending Lucan a vision/mission to stop us paint a slightly different picture from the one we got.
Was Baelor simply idiotic as a Monadic Deva? Or was the Father incompetent/mistaken in making him a Kingkiller? Was he an ace in the hole in case we went off the deep end (which, fair its a reasonable expectation all things told) and he just acted too soon?
Sure our expectations were subverted in an acceptable way but there is a few too many questions.
Like the issue of Baelor kinda of attacking us and the Father sending Lucan a vision/mission to stop us paint a slightly different picture from the one we got.
Was Baelor simply idiotic as a Monadic Deva? Or was the Father incompetent/mistaken in making him a Kingkiller? Was he an ace in the hole in case we went off the deep end (which, fair its a reasonable expectation all things told) and he just acted too soon?
Evaunit02mark1
S-s-smell the Prey, S-s-start the Hunt.
The only way to get to answers is to ask him.
The trick is getting him in a room without him trying to stab us with a pointy piece of metal.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
For me it sounded like someone(s) (ie, the Chosen) with a position that's irreconcilable with Viserys', couched in moral-sounding arguments. Uttered by persons that aren't demon/daemon/devil worshippers. We've got the Chosen of a Faith where at least one of their gods outed us as 'the danger'. No wonder their Chosen have a problem with us. New is that flipping them to our side will not work, as they believe their gods. And, well, if we weren't invading Westeros it might work out. Unlikely given the amount of housekeeping we had to do in the past few month, but a Westeros-wide theocracy might be strong enough to shelter humans. That needn't be true, it's enough if the Chosen believe it. With that background, why wouldn't they work against Viserys? From their point of view, he's just another problem.
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- Location
- Castle
That's pretty much said impasse
To get answers we need to commit, to commit means to take the morality hammer to the collective face of Viserys and the thread and the last 3 years of questing.
Which gets is to the same point as before, do we take measures or do we kill them all?
Edit: Anyways I will have to leave in a while, still supporting small retcon of the last Danelle action because it reads like moving the plot forward, not like characters interacting
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- Location
- Canada (eh)
I vote we kill them all,
Self-righteousness > the lives of millions
OK guys bad news, I don't know how to deliver it so I'm just going to be direct:
Azel just quit the thread and I suspect the site. Things were getting unpleasant for him and that is the promise I made him when I made the Co-GM offer, that I would never ask him to do something unpleasant
Now I have to step away from the keyboard for a bit to sort out my feelings as best I can.
Azel just quit the thread and I suspect the site. Things were getting unpleasant for him and that is the promise I made him when I made the Co-GM offer, that I would never ask him to do something unpleasant
Now I have to step away from the keyboard for a bit to sort out my feelings as best I can.
Evaunit02mark1
S-s-smell the Prey, S-s-start the Hunt.
Which is why we need to get them to sit down to a table and talk.
We're a problem to them, they're a problem to us, and we've all got massive problems coming down the pipeline.
With some effort we might be able to turn our mutual problems into an opportunity.
Or barring that we can at least have a formal declaration of war and kill them without any more moral hangups.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
Welp, there it all goes.
I kinda assumed it will be the Conclave, that will take the highest toll on people, but had no idea it will be just this way.
DP, just so you know, a new quest or continuing this one, the playerbase will always support you.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ultimately we'd kill them because they are in our way of doing things, not because there isn't another option. Nothing forces us to reclaim the Iron Throne, after all. And whether or not a Westeros unconquered by us could survive the Other's (and all the other threats) - we'll likely never know. So, there will always be a moral choice included in any of our actions.
Evaunit02mark1
S-s-smell the Prey, S-s-start the Hunt.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
OK, feelings sorted, they are not very good feelings but at least I'm not numb anymore. Mostly I'm just sad, though part of me wants to be angry at the thread or at the vote or something but that would be unfair. This may have been the final straw but I saw this coming, for all he helped me he was not enjoying himself, though he wanted to sadly one cannot become happy by wishing it so.
It probably does not help anyone to wax on about this so I might as well get to what you guys likely want to know the most: I will not be abandoning this thread or this story. @egoo @Duesal I know you guys were the most worried about azel leaving and Iwould not blame you if you left too but I really hope you will not.
I still want to tell this story.
It probably does not help anyone to wax on about this so I might as well get to what you guys likely want to know the most: I will not be abandoning this thread or this story. @egoo @Duesal I know you guys were the most worried about azel leaving and Iwould not blame you if you left too but I really hope you will not.
I still want to tell this story.
- Location
- Germany
There is no magic way to fix this anymore.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
@DragonParadox
My main issue with this whole ordeal, even the Syrax one, was never that we had the plot, or the motivations behind those planning decisions for the story. Wanting to have a more nuanced set of characters and having motivations be more than binary decisions/three-dimensional and varied and getting people to think instead of just carrying on as normal is a good idea, on paper.
But maybe a long, long, long break and a really in-depth discussion over your interests and fully reading in the thread on changes implied would have been better? Pointing out that "everyone is either an idiot or agrees with Viserys, which just plain doesn't reflect reality in my mind, or rather the reality that I want to write about", or "There are people who aren't innately wrong (or right) but they have some strong words to say about your activities and the plot will ensure they actually have a foot to stand upon rather than come across as screeching platitudes that we can walk all over in social combat".
It's just... It was all delivered to us without discussing any of the issues that were being had first, and then by the time the thread caught on and figured out what was the motive behind planning this entire arc, it was too late and plenty of bad decisions were made, and directly after one vote drove some of us from posting plans or insights (myself) or posting entirely (Azel).
I'm not even sure if I should vote yet given you're going through a rough time and probably don't want to talk about ret-cons, but I think I should at least point back to our earlier discussion over PMs and in the thread.
This just feels like you didn't trust us with your feelings on the thread, and instead leaned on Azel to try to change some aspects about it that you didn't like rather than talk to us.
It's... not a pleasant feeling. Feeling like an entire arc was some kind of meta-based set of decision points.
My main issue with this whole ordeal, even the Syrax one, was never that we had the plot, or the motivations behind those planning decisions for the story. Wanting to have a more nuanced set of characters and having motivations be more than binary decisions/three-dimensional and varied and getting people to think instead of just carrying on as normal is a good idea, on paper.
But maybe a long, long, long break and a really in-depth discussion over your interests and fully reading in the thread on changes implied would have been better? Pointing out that "everyone is either an idiot or agrees with Viserys, which just plain doesn't reflect reality in my mind, or rather the reality that I want to write about", or "There are people who aren't innately wrong (or right) but they have some strong words to say about your activities and the plot will ensure they actually have a foot to stand upon rather than come across as screeching platitudes that we can walk all over in social combat".
It's just... It was all delivered to us without discussing any of the issues that were being had first, and then by the time the thread caught on and figured out what was the motive behind planning this entire arc, it was too late and plenty of bad decisions were made, and directly after one vote drove some of us from posting plans or insights (myself) or posting entirely (Azel).
I'm not even sure if I should vote yet given you're going through a rough time and probably don't want to talk about ret-cons, but I think I should at least point back to our earlier discussion over PMs and in the thread.
This just feels like you didn't trust us with your feelings on the thread, and instead leaned on Azel to try to change some aspects about it that you didn't like rather than talk to us.
It's... not a pleasant feeling. Feeling like an entire arc was some kind of meta-based set of decision points.
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- Location
- United States
I'm sticking around. I still believe in the quest as a whole. Despite everything, Viserys is still Viserys. That at least won't change.
Please do not tag him. He said he needed time and distance and he was very serious about the whole thing.
- Location
- Castle
I survived Embra I wont leave for this
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
I am sticking here as well.
I'm not sure on what is the point of this story arc without Azel anymore, and fearful for our strategic/economic play, and also a little bit high on sedative I had to take (I wasn't joking about Valocardinum earlier)...
But I am following through with this, at least for so long as morality-hammer doesn't come back with the vengeance and causes me to lose my shit.
Ill just... Take a bit of a break now.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Too bad, you have to read my really sappy PM now. Because I sent it before I saw your reply.
I'm looking at this post and it's thoughtful as all of your analyses are but I don't think I can answer it properly right now. I will get to it later, promise.