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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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mrsean22 said:
I mean how do we know this is Danelle and not Lucan?
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I'm saying, we don't, but our gut should probably say yes.

My OOC instinct says it is her. My IC read of Viserys assumes the same, because what she is literally doing is trying to show that she is willing to take risks, so that Viserys will take a risk.
 
Crake said:
It probably is, just for maximum Aizen the fact that she is trying to argue based on an innate moral component, that what Viserys is doing is wrong and that this is her bravely trying to give him a wakeup call.
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Kind of falls flat considering we're probably more "awake" that she is at the moment.

She hasn't been hit with the morality stick multiple fucking times, some of which were self inflicted while still more were from actual deities who should have the common fucking decency to stay dead while they're unable to provide any use like the worthless layabouts they are.

Also, just an aside, if she pulls that shit again on anyone in our company or employ she goes in the snake. I don't care how big the funnel we need to get has to be.

Deep breaths, Deep breaths, back to Moomin.
 
zxzx24 said:
(Also I dont believe WE actually thought they were enslaved at all. That doesn't really matter though. Since I realized azel did not actually make Danelle omniscient.)
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The issue I keep bringing up is that I think some people did believe in the possibility, such as goldfish, and since he's the one making the vote...
I wont front. I proposed kidnapping them for a political advantage. That said, my viewpoint is not the same as everyone else's. That's the issue with a playerbase of multiple people; not everyone will do everything for the same reasons, and several people were concerned about the possibility of Lucan's people being enslaved. Hell, I haven't dismissed the possibility of it being one of those cult-like things where you can't leave upon pain of death.
 
[X] Plan Re-Evaluate the Course
-[X] In a single conversation, and all of the proceeding events of the Conclave, one thing has become apparent to you about Danelle: Not just sincerity, but of risk, compromise. She has come here to both act as a Martyr for Lucan to exploit for the sake of the people she hopes to defend, but also a statement in of itself. She has met you half way, and she is begging you to meet her.
-[X] You despise self delusion. You have chosen many rigorous, often thankless courses, stomped on lives like ants just in the course of an average day of rulership and statesmanship. What you have done is torment a woman who has done you no wrong and made her fret and put her life in your hand, with determination or resignation, it almost doesn't even matter.
-[X] Step back. Have Dany release the hostages.
-[X] With bone-deep weariness: "Once you have confirmed their safety, I would like to speak, as I am now, with Brother Lucan." But not alone. During the next recess, Danelle and Lucan will meet with Viserys and Dany. You're all for accepting some more bitter truths, but not without the support of your sister.
-[X] There's no point in laying out a list of demands or motivations or goals. Hear out both of their concerns and their motives. If they care even a little about you hearing them out, they will share what they think is necessary, and you will tacitly ensure they know they can ask for clarification from you if it is required for them to share more. This time calls for clear communication, no more and no less.
 
[X] Plan LG Viserys
-[X] She is right. Your actions were wrong and too hasty. Accept her pledge, release your prisoners and leave the Conclave.
-[X] Play up the fact that you are the monarch of a kingdom of disparate peoples; people of different religions, cultures, and even planes.
-[X] Mention your belief that the Seven wish to put all mages under their watch and "protection", which is obviously a non starter for most in the Imperium and a point of friction between yourself and the Seven. Ask Danielle to push for allowing mages to self regulate without the Seven looming over their shoulders.
-[X] Mention your current pact with the Old Gods, and appeal to the idea that, like Lucan, you are doing what you must in order to power the Old Gods against an even greater threat (aka the Others). See if she can find some way to humble the Seven without bloodshed of her faithful.
-[X] Ask about Baelor the Kingkiller, and explain that you made an assumption based upon Baelor that you and Lucan could never be allies because of it. This of course ended up being a false assumption, but try to explain your reasoning and how it looked from your perspective.
-[X] Ask to meet with Danielle and Lucan, as well as any other Chosen of their choosing, at some sort of neutral location of their choosing to discuss the realities of being caught between a War of the Gods and how best to resolve our differences.
-[X] Extend an invitation to Danielle (and her companions if she so chooses to invite them) for a tour of Sorcerer's Deep in order to show both the justness of our rule and to dispel most of the negative rumors abound about us.

So, this is obviously a rough vote because I usually don't do this kind of stuff, but the intention is to explicitly admit that we were wrong, and then run through our thought process to show Danielle (and probably Lucan who is listening in) why we came to the conclusions that we did.
Tried not to specify specific sentences because that can much more easily be used against us like it did last update.

Please share any thoughts and concerns and I can change things as needed.
 
chryssalideater said:
The issue I keep bringing up is that I think some people did believe in the possibility, such as goldfish, and since he's the one making the vote...
I wont front. I proposed kidnapping them for a political advantage. That said, my viewpoint is not the same as everyone else's. That's the issue with a playerbase of multiple people; not everyone will do everything for the same reasons, and several people were concerned about the possibility of Lucan's people being enslaved. Hell, I haven't dismissed the possibility of it being one of those cult-like things where you can't leave upon pain of death.
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For the record, I didn't ever believe they were magically compelled, but until very recently thought it all but certain that any who proved insufficiently motivated on religious grounds would be compelled by threat of violence.
 
You know what would be amazing?
If "Plan LG Viserys" won now that Azel left the playerbase, and we suddenly switched to a full LG playstyle with minimal blood magic and immoral actions.
Unlikely, but big if true.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
You know what would be amazing?
If "Plan LG Viserys" won now that Azel left the playerbase, and we suddenly switched to a full LG playstyle with minimal blood magic and immoral actions.
Unlikely, but big if true.
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I'll admit, a decently large part of my reasoning for that name is that I had flashbacks to the constant alignment debates of yesteryear :V

I legit think that my plan is at the very least a decent one though; some feedback would be appreciated if possible.

Edit: I'm also sorry if the plan name was offensive in some way; I was trying for tongue in cheek humor but from the current reception it seems like I didn't do too well.

I can change the plan name to something else if people want me to.
 
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[X] Plan Re-Evaluate the Course

ewnkvljewniu2ngjelkwnleewbwelkb

I'm very tired.

I want everything to hit its explosive finale finally.
 
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Raichu1972 said:
I'll admit, a decently large part of my reasoning for that name is that I had flashbacks to the constant alignment debates of yesteryear :V

I legit think that my plan is at the very least a decent one though; some feedback would be appreciated if possible.
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I think your plan includes a little too much justification for our own actions. If they want us to explain, reason out, or flat-out justify how we could do something, addressing it point by point is more effective because these two are geared to feel hostile towards us if we are the ones that try to point out something, it seems manipulative, not reasonable, because they know we have crazy socials even without buffs.

If they ask a question, and, by their own determination, it seems we are just telling the truth as the ask for it, then it is better, because they regain their own agency again, they have some control of the discussion. They are scared or worried about what we will do or say.

It's give and take, we have so much personal power and leverage in different ways that they feel like it is fair if they get to control the discussion a little more. Or that's how I'm picturing their view on Viserys trying to get into their good graces. Actions matter more. Be understated. Play down our motives. If they are curious, carefully explain them, doling out information as necessary.
 
Everyone knows we went off with the chosen if we really want to splinter the faith is there anyway we can fake our death so it looks like her and Lucian murdered us. Maybe even sending dream angel dany to some of them about how the chosen of the Madison and the father murdered the chosen of the stranger (Which would explain that few people heard of us but how we were still influence )because he opposed there plan for a theocracy.
 
Crake said:
Danelle rudely cuts in "WHAT HAS HE DONE, HE'S AN INNOCENT POOR BOY WHO'S DONE NO WRONG"

we go "Baelor the motherfucking Blessed, Divine Sovereign Shanker?"

Danelle goes "OH THAT? THAT WAS X. YOU THOUGHT IT WAS Y. IT WOULD HAVE RESULTED IN Z AND YOU RUINED IT YOU IDIOT, NOW APOLOGIZE."
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Not only specifically calling up a King Killer, but also using one of the target's ancestors for it. How would someone even go about putting that in a positive light? Even if it was only a "just in case" measure, the optics of that wouldn't look all that great.
 
Right I have the beginning of a plan, this plan might not be good, but it will hopefully help to break the faith. We get a chance, as Viserys to speak at the conclave. Then we pull a 95 reasons why the faith sucks and how best to change it.
 
Crake said:
I think your plan includes a little too much justification for our own actions. If they want us to explain, reason out, or flat-out justify how we could do something, addressing it point by point is more effective because these two are geared to feel hostile towards us if we are the ones that try to point out something, it seems manipulative, not reasonable, because they know we have crazy socials even without buffs.

If they ask a question, and, by their own determination, it seems we are just telling the truth as the ask for it, then it is better, because they regain their own agency again, they have some control of the discussion. They are scared or worried about what we will do or say.

It's give and take, we have so much personal power and leverage in different ways that they feel like it is fair if they get to control the discussion a little more. Or that's how I'm picturing their view on Viserys trying to get into their good graces. Actions matter more. Be understated. Play down our motives. If they are curious, carefully explain them, doling out information as necessary.
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I can understand that point of view.

I mostly put those parts in because the current view of Viserys is "unreasonably paranoid Dragon King who is trying to fuck with the Faith diguised as a begging brother of all things while holding my friends hostage".

As far as impressions go this is a very poor one.
Would something like this be a little better in your opinion?

[] Plan LG Viserys
-[] She is right. Your actions were wrong and too hasty. Accept her pledge, release your prisoners and leave the Conclave.
-[] Ask Danielle to push for allowing mages to self regulate without the Seven looming over their shoulders.
-[] Ask to meet with Danielle and Lucan, as well as any other Chosen of their choosing, at some sort of neutral location of their choosing to discuss the realities of being caught between a War of the Gods and how best to resolve our differences.
-[] Extend an invitation to Danielle (and her companions if she so chooses to invite them) for a tour of Sorcerer's Deep

Took out all the justification and most of the hardier requests, which might be more palatable.
 
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