Royce has never been faithful, if you start out as a OG-worshipper you can't be a heretic to the Seven, only a filthy heathen.
While true, I'm asking about the degree of heresy. Rather than living placidly while septons preach all around them, how much closer are they to Waymar who happens to be actively preaching in favor of the Old Gods whenever the situation arises?
 

On a different note, what about the Royces?

Viserys is not sure. You would have to ask Waymar.

@DragonParadox, can the next chapter be titled "Maegor did nothing wrong, just not enough."? IT feels rather fitting.

Maegor's problem is that he used a hammer not a surgeon's scalper (not to say that the latter cannot do as much damage as the former)

Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by Sqweaktoy on Apr 26, 2019 at 9:16 AM, finished with 55 posts and 27 votes.

  • [X] "Ah, but the Father has already decreed such, for Brother Lucan truly is his mouthpiece upon the earth, blessed as his champion and empowered with his Divine writ."
    -[X] "And in that folly, the potential for schism is born. I cannot claim to know the minds of the Seven, save what I and my allies have gleaned of the workings of all gods, the Seven among them, through dogged investigation and powerful Divination."
    --[X] "The Seven no longer move as one. No longer are they united in such purpose that claims could be made they are in fact a single deity with seven aspects. For example, the Father's Chosen would impose theocratic rule and crush magic from Westeros, save his pet mages, yet the Daughter's Chosen embraces freedom and gladly consorts with inhuman creatures and heathen mages. The Warrior invests his attention in a child, all but ignoring the perils facing Westeros and the rest of the world, while the Chosen of the Smith wastes time forging trinkets any competent mage-smith could reproduce."
    ---[X] "The unity of the Seven is fraying at the edges in this era, and will continue to do so as time passes and their individual agendas become ever more divorced from one another. Schism is all but inevitable. I merely wish to hurry it along, to lessen the impact on Westeros and to prevent another costly civil war, one in which the only true winner will be the monsters laughing at our self-imposed misfortune and celebrating the bounty we have made available to them."
    ----[X] Should Baelor need further convincing, ask him if he would like to meet a holy messenger, one much like the Angels who follow in Lucan's wake, but who actually strives to improve the world around him in meaningful ways. If he agrees, retrieve Yrael and have him speak with Baelor.
    [X] "Then they will be knelt, like all the other traitors."
 
@DragonParadox, can we get status updates on the heresy of the following?

Lord Brune -- quietly a heretic
Lord Velaryon -- ???
Prince Martell -- ???
Oberyn Martell -- Definitely a Heretic
Lord Royce -- ???
Lord Frey -- Probably a Heretic
Lord Tarly -- ???
Lord Redwyne -- ???
Lord Darry -- ???
Lord Florent -- ???

Doran does not care about gods except in so far as they are useful to his plans and Velaryon is considering the virtues of open-mindedness. Everyone else is pretty faithful (if by no means fanatical).
 
Maegor's problem is that he used a hammer not a surgeon's scalper (not to say that the latter cannot do as much damage as the former)
I've always had this bizarre and absolutely incorrect theory that Maegor was secretly loyal to House Targaryen.

It goes as follows--in the later years of Aegon's reign and especially after his death, the Faith grew more and more restless. It didn't matter that the Targaryens had publicly converted to the Faith of the Seven, the faithful still chaffed under the yoke when they saw incest continue to be carried out among the royal family.

More than that, there's the Faith Militant who at this time still hold a ridiculous amount of power. They obviously need to be crushed. But how to do so while not destroying House Targaryen's own legitimacy in the process?

Enter Maegor, the man who sacrificed himself for the good of the family. He made himself a scapegoat and directly challenged the Faith, conveniently separating himself from all remaining family members (Jaehaerys in particular) and absolutely crushed the Faith Militant, and by the time he died and the throne went to Jaehaerys lo and behold the Faith Militant was no more and none were left alive to challenge House Targaryen's authority... and more than that the blame for the entire thing went squarely on the head of Maegor rather than any living Targaryens.

It would be a masterstroke if it were true, and Maegor would ironically be one of the most loyal Targaryens ever.

EDIT: At the very least it'd be a neat idea for a fanfic.
 
Last edited:
Does anybody else find the last two plans somewhat garish? unwise?

I'm not sure, something's off with it, and it's annoying me.
 
Does anybody else find the last two plans somewhat garish? unwise?

I'm not sure, something's off with it, and it's annoying me.
DP basically said so in the previous update, yeah.
This guy has an actual supply of PCs, and has influence over other factions. Him telling this shit to everyone would kinda suck for us on the short term.
Just telling him about the final goal of the Fey felt unwise, honestly. I give it 50/50 odds that Hoster himself didn't know that. And if the Fey learn that we told him that, then surely it'll impact our negotiations with them later!
 
Does anybody else find the last two plans somewhat garish? unwise?

I'm not sure, something's off with it, and it's annoying me.

DP basically said so in the previous update, yeah.
This guy has an actual supply of PCs, and has influence over other factions. Him telling this shit to everyone would kinda suck for us on the short term.
Just telling him about the final goal of the Fey felt unwise, honestly. I give it 50/50 odds that Hoster himself didn't know that. And if the Fey learn that we told him that, then surely it'll impact our negotiations with them later!
I could have changed my plan, but no one seemed to have any issue with it.

Sorry, y'all.

/fingers crossed
 
Winning vote

[] "Ah, but the Father has already decreed such, for Brother Lucan truly is his mouthpiece upon the earth, blessed as his champion and empowered with his Divine writ."
-[] "And in that folly, the potential for schism is born. I cannot claim to know the minds of the Seven, save what I and my allies have gleaned of the workings of all gods, the Seven among them, through dogged investigation and powerful Divination."
--[]"The Seven no longer move as one. No longer are they united in such purpose that claims could be made they are in fact a single deity with seven aspects. For example, the Father's Chosen would impose theocratic rule and crush magic from Westeros, save his pet mages, yet the Daughter's Chosen embraces freedom and gladly consorts with inhuman creatures and heathen mages. The Warrior invests his attention in a child, all but ignoring the perils facing Westeros and the rest of the world, while the Chosen of the Smith wastes time forging trinkets any competent mage-smith could reproduce."
---[] "The unity of the Seven is fraying at the edges in this era, and will continue to do so as time passes and their individual agendas become ever more divorced from one another. Schism is all but inevitable. I merely wish to hurry it along, to lessen the impact on Westeros and to prevent another costly civil war, one in which the only true winner will be the monsters laughing at our self-imposed misfortune and celebrating the bounty we have made available to them."
----[] Should Baelor need further convincing, ask him if he would like to meet a holy messenger, one much like the Angels who follow in Lucan's wake, but who actually strives to improve the world around him in meaningful ways. If he agrees, retrieve Yrael and have him speak with Baelor.
 
Part MMDCCXCVII: Tribulations of the Mind
Tribulations of the Mind

Sixth Day of the Ninth Month 293 AC

"Ah, but the Father has already decreed such, for Brother Lucan truly is his mouthpiece upon the earth, blessed as his Champion and empowered with his Divine Writ," you reply simply, truthfully.

As the Braavosi say, one could have heard a shadow falling in the silence that followed. You had not hidden behind doubt, the same doubt your mother had admitted to feeling yesterday. It would have been a simple step, a lie Lord Hightower would have wished with all his heart to hear, but you are not Corlys Waters now, nor is he some fool you plan to fleece, but a lord whose oath you would have. Thus before he can open his mouth to speak, to deny your words or call you a fool you continue: "It is in that folly the potential for schism is born. I cannot claim to know the minds of the Seven, save what I and my allies have gleaned of the workings of all gods, the Seven among them, through dogged investigation and arcane divination."

"You can't just..." the words trail off.

"Just is not the word, my lord," Dany interjects, almost gently. "The path is long, full of perils and false turnings, perhaps more so than any other study... but then you know something of that, do you not?" She motions to the chamber. "This tower bears the light by which ships find safe harbor, but there is more light within than that which burns upon its summit—the light of knowledge, of understanding, the reason why you are standing here as your own man and not the puppet of horrors lurking in the depths."

"I have learned many things I would have never expected to, things I perhaps was not meant to by the Light of the Seven. Ours is a fallen world, but..." Baelor shakes his head as though to dispel words he does not wish to hear, thoughts he does not wish to think. Alas for him that neither is so easily banished.

"But the gods are above that, transcendent as they pass judgement upon mortal souls?" Your sister sighs. "That would not be the world I would choose, but I can imagine why many might wish to live in it. Answer me this one thing, my lord, what are the Deep Ones you so struggle against here? Are they 'demons' by virtue of being malevolent and otherworldly? Are they divine retribution to be called and halt at the will of the Seven-Who-Are-One?"

"I believe that is two questions," Baelor corrects, his smile a wan thing, though there might be an edge of gallows' humor to it. "Your point is well made, though if you will pardon my saying so there is a difference between acknowledging the Seven are not omnipotent and believing that they are actors to be anticipated and countered."

"Agreed," you nod. "However, for me this is not a point of philosophy, but simple observation. The Seven no longer move as one. No longer are they united in such purpose that claims could be made they are in fact a single deity with seven aspects. For example, the Father's Chosen would impose rule by the Gods, or more practically the Godsworn and crush magic from Westeros, save his pet mages, yet the Maiden's Chosen embraces freedom and gladly consorts with inhuman creatures and heathen mages. The Warrior invests his attention in a child, all but ignoring the perils facing Westeros and the rest of the world, while the Chosen of the Smith wastes time forging trinkets any competent mage-smith could reproduce."

"I have met Danelle. She does not wish to be called 'septa' having never studied for the title you know." The lord abruptly stops himself. His hands are trembling ever so slightly upon the cup in his hands, tea utterly forgotten save for something, anything to hold on to. "How do you know of the others? Who are they?"

"There I am going to have to avail myself to silence, at least for now," you reply. You pause a moment as much to let the lord catch his breath as waiting for an answer. He merely nods in understanding, and so you continue: "The unity of the Seven is fraying at the edges in this era, and will continue to do so as time passes and their individual agendas become ever more divorced from one another. Schism is all but inevitable. I merely wish to hurry it along, to lessen the impact on Westeros and to prevent another costly internecine war, one in which the only true winner will be the monsters laughing at our self-imposed misfortune as they sup on our blood and misery."

For a long moment the Lord of the Hightower is silent, looking over his domain, not at the sept but at the almost four-hundred-thousand souls milling about in the streets, most of them faithful to the Seven, but also more than that—mothers and fathers, sisters and brothers, craftsmen, sailors, and scholars. Something hardens behind his eyes. "Can you prove this, my lord? Show me those divinations you spoke of, the texts from whence the lore was drawn?"

Somehow you doubt he would enjoy meeting Yss in this state of mind. Fortunately you have an alternative. You quickly pen a note and hand it to Varys, bidding her to deliver it to the Lord of Mantarys while explaining the matter to Baelor. Part of you had been inclined to showmanship, but you do not wish to present him with any shocks besides those that are inevitable.

In less than two minutes you hear the familiar hiss of displaced air as Yrael manifests unseen outside the tower window as you had asked. You slide the window open to allow him passage. Only when it is closed again and the curtains drawn tight does he remove the borrowed glamour without fanfare or ceremony.

"As I am called so here I am, my lord,"
he says with a solemn bow to you before greeting Lord Hightower with all the courtesy due a guest. "Whatever counsel you may need I will give freely."

In the conversation that follows Lord Hightower proves once more to be a man with no small knowledge of magic, to the point where you begin to wonder if he has not dabbled in it himself, but far more importantly one trained in logic at the Citadel and applying that training to his beliefs with a ruthlessness that is at once admirable and almost painful to watch. Finally he nods wearily to Yrael. "Thank you for indulging my questions. A great deal is clear to me that had been veiled before."

Then he turns to you, his voice clear and resolute despite the turmoil he had passed through: "I will aid in your plans however I am able while staying true to duties to the people of Oldtown and my House so long as you pledge to do everything in your power to ensure that the conflict will not come to blood here, particularly that you will not fight Lucan or any of his... entourage in the city. I fear that would spark such unrest as the city has not seen in an age."

What do you reply?

[] Agree
-[] Write in questions/requests

[] Counter proposal
-[] Write in


OOC: I was tempted to just go with yes and continue with the questions you guys put in the previous vote, but in the end I feel that any solemn oath Viserys makes has to be up to you guys.
 
Last edited:
So I'm thinking to agree on the face of it since a high level fight is never a good thing to have in a populated area. Besides defending ourselves is still fine this is more of a just don't strike first thing I think.
 
[X] Agree
-[X] You did not plan to attack or provoke Lucan in this place and at this time. If he should somehow find out about our presence and start a fight over it we will answer in kind, but we'll do our best to avoid such an outcome


[X] If Baelor seems willing to share after our revelations, ask him the following questions;
-[X] What can he tell us in detail about the various disasters that have plagued Oldtown since magic's awakenings? This is asking for a brief chronological history of the disasters and how each one was resolved.
--[X] In particular what can he tell us of what he knows about the Deep Ones' incursions?
---[X] What kinds have been spotted?
---[X] Does he know who leads various branches?
---[X] Does he have knowledge of where various fortresses are located?
---[X] What active plots is he aware of?
-[X] Aside from the Lantern Bearers and the heroes on Greyshield, are there any other notables in the Reach who have shown the strength to stand against the dark?
-[X] Regarding the Court of Stars, what fey princes is he aware of he operate within his territory, and what is their disposition? (alongside basic questions on loot, deeds, known pacts, etc.)
-[X] What can he tell us about the Underdark entrance under the Hightower?
--[X] What creatures lurk there? How strong are they?
--[X] What threat of invasion is there?
-[X] Ask about the Lantern Bearers
--[X] Ask for more details on their general makeup, their numbers, the strength of their members (what class they have), what equipment they have, etc.
--[X] Ask what aid the Lantern Bearers would like. Hypothetical for the moment since you need to determine what you can spare, but the organization does good work, and the Deep Ones are enemies to all.

--[X] Out of curiosity, where did his Mind Blank come from?
-[X] What can he tell us about Danelle and Lucan? Spies and divinations are best complemented by personal impressions.


Copied the questions, the answer should be obvious.
Lucan being allowed to talk his bullshit here helps us more than making him a martyr in a dangerous streetfight, much as it hurts.
 
Last edited:
We can ruin his credibility as soon as we start flooding Westeros with papers. For now avoiding a fight would be preferable. Plus if we wants a fight we can take it out of the city. I doubt he would want to fight here either.
 
[X] Artemis1992
Eh, we're not killing off Lucan before he wreaks as much schism onto his own fait as possible.
And even then, we're looting his angels first.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top