Victoria Falls: A Post-Collapse American Nation Quest [Down With Victoria!]

[X][IDEALS] New Capitalist: Aims to restore the old system with badly-needed revisions to address some of the obvious flaws. Among other things, it mandates a living minimum wage tied to government-collected measures, writes into foundational law the de-personhood of anybody who is not, in fact, an actual person, and institutes broad protections for employees against their employers (protected right to unionize, protections for whistleblowers, pension laws for companies, etc.). The New Capitalists do not give a single shit about democratized workplaces, positively or negatively, as long as they pay their taxes.

[X][IDEALS] Social Democrat: Centered around the idea that it is the state's responsibility to ensure a bare-minimum standard of living, the Social Democrats add to the New Capitalist agenda with a push for a government guarantee of adequate housing, food, and water to all citizens -- itself a fairly titanic task. It remains rooted in the fundamental ideal of private enterprise. The Social Democrats have some interest in the potential of democratized workplaces and are willing to support them in an experimental measure.

[X][CRUSH] Some of the central tenets of the founding government's ideology are written into foundational law, making it difficult for even violently opposed successor governments to fully roll them back without immense popular support.

[X][POWER] You are a devolved unitary state with subordinate governments formed or dissolved by central governmental decrees according to need
[X][POWER] You are a centralized federal state along the lines of the later United States.

[X][TEXT] The Constitution serves as a broad guide for the structure of this document, and many legal concepts integral to it carry through, but it is rewritten from the ground up to serve its new situation rather than simply amending it until it fits.

[X][IDEALS] Social Democrat: Centered around the idea that it is the state's responsibility to ensure a bare-minimum standard of living, the Social Democrats add to the New Capitalist agenda with a push for a government guarantee of adequate housing, food, and water to all citizens -- itself a fairly titanic task. It remains rooted in the fundamental ideal of private enterprise. The Social Democrats have some interest in the potential of democratized workplaces and are willing to support them in an experimental measure.

[X][IDEALS] Socialist: Having come to refer to a specific political movement rather than an entire branch of ideology, modern socialism is focused on giving the state the power to care for allcitizens, and claims that the modern Social Democrat platform does not go far enough in pursuit of this. It also calls for a massive investment into healthcare in order to revitalize the field and make sure that there are enough medical professionals to go around (long-term, they want free healthcare, but there needs to be enough of it first). They also grant unions extensive privileges over private employers. They are fervently in favor of democratized workplaces, and openly campaign in favor of granting them special concessions.
[X][CRUSH] Some of the central tenets of the founding government's ideology are written into foundational law, making it difficult for even violently opposed successor governments to fully roll them back without immense popular support.
[X][POWER] You are a devolved unitary state with subordinate governments formed or dissolved by central governmental decrees according to need
[X][TEXT] The Constitution serves as a broad guide for the structure of this document, and many legal concepts integral to it carry through, but it is rewritten from the ground up to serve its new situation rather than simply amending it until it fits.

Ghostdevil said:

The thing is, that once they win, its pretty much over, theres no way anyone will be willing to go Less socialist.

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Rat King said:

By "anyone" do you mean the (in-universe) polity or quest voters?

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Ghostdevil said:

The latter, i doubt all of the pro capitalists will come back...
Ya know all 6 of them.

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Timewinders said:

I honestly think it speaks more of SV's demographics than anything else. In real life America soc dem would be too left to win (we might see an exception in 2020 but that's more due to a crowded Democratic primary than anything else). Normally you'd get most people preferring either social liberals or capitalists. Plus a small but present minority supporting libertarians.

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I am curious if there will be a mechanism to somehow represent the potentially conservative populations of areas we may incorporate in the future despite the very left wing bend of SV. Despite all the arguments I heard, it still seem unlikely that conservative capitalists would be completely eliminated as a political force. Reduced significantly yes and in a probably quite different form than present day Republicans but to the point they have no influence at all? That is hard to believe. I wonder if we will have shenanigans like biased expansion where people prioritize incorporating left leaning areas before known conservative leaning areas to support their base and avoid diluting the socialist leaning electorate base with conservatives as long as possible. People get creative and that is an interesting thing. How would the mostly left SV readers react if election and party support algorithms determine a conservative candidate or party has just won the latest in-game election? I hope we could figure something out that accommodates this hypothetical in-universe situation and the left lean of most of SV. Agreements among the readers to not sabotage an duly elected character by making they do wildly out of character decisions. Or we could just hold that the SV base represents the people of the setting reducing the degree of realism to avoid a potentially big tide of anger and for simplicity's sake? Or we could declare in-universe that conservative capitalists are as unwelcome here as the Victorians with all the consequences that implies.

That's avoiding the elephant in the room of what to with the population of Victoria if we conquer it. We claim Victoria's lands as rightful parts of America after all. We doubt we will give the ex-Victorians voting rights right away, and there would be a long reconstruction period. But it would be wrong to deny Americans voting rights forever and who knows how the ex-Victorians might react? They might retain open or hidden reactionary beliefs, become loyal but conservative leaning citizens, or even totally reject their previous circumstances and embrace socialism or communism. But that's a long ways away so we can ignore the elephant for now.

BoredStudent1414 said:

I am curious if there will be a mechanism to somehow represent the potentially conservative populations of areas we may incorporate in the future despite the very left wing bend of SV. Despite all the arguments I hared, it still seem unlikely that conservative capitalists would be completely eliminated as a political force. Reduced significantly yes and in a probably quite different form than present day Republicans but to the point they have no influence at all? That is hard to believe. I wonder if we will have shenanigans like biased expansion where people prioritize incorporating left leaning areas before known conservative leaning areas to support their base and avoid diluting the socialist leaning electorate base with conservatives as long as possible. People get creative and that is an interesting thing. How would the mostly left SV readers react if election and party support algorithms determine a conservative candidate or party has just won the in-game election? I hope we could figure something out that accommodates this hypothetical in-universe situation and the left lean of most of SV. Agreements among the readers to not sabotage an duly elected character by making they do wildly out of character decisions. Or we could just hold that the SV base represents the people of the setting reducing the degree of realism to avoid a potentially big tide of anger and simplicity's sake? Or we could declare in-universe that conservative capitalists are as unwelcome here as the Victorians with all the consequences that implies.

That's avoiding the elephant in the room of what to with the population of Victoria if we conquer it. We claim Victoria's lands as rightful parts of America after all. We doubt we will give the ex-Victorians voting rights right away, and there would be a long reconstruction period. But it would be wrong to deny Americans voting rights forever and who knows how the ex-Victorians might react? They might retain open or hidden reactionary beliefs, become loyal but conservative leaning citizens, or even totally reject their previous circumstances and embrace socialism or communism. But that's a long ways away so we can ignore the elephant for now.

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For the first part, that's mostly up to the QM to decide, I think. Also depends on what sort of situations get given to us to vote on and how the rules work. Willing to cross those bridges when we come to them.

Personally, I thought this was going to be much more lopsided toward the NC than it ended up being, so I'm pleasantly surprised.

[X][IDEALS] Social Democrat: Centered around the idea that it is the state's responsibility to ensure a bare-minimum standard of living, the Social Democrats add to the New Capitalist agenda with a push for a government guarantee of adequate housing, food, and water to all citizens -- itself a fairly titanic task. It remains rooted in the fundamental ideal of private enterprise. The Social Democrats have some interest in the potential of democratized workplaces and are willing to support them in an experimental measure.

[X][CRUSH] None. This is a democracy. If your ideology cannot make its case to the people in practice, it deserves to fail.

[X][POWER] You are a centralized federal state along the lines of the later United States.

[X][TEXT] The Constitution serves as a broad guide for the structure of this document, and many legal concepts integral to it carry through, but it is rewritten from the ground up to serve its new situation rather than simply amending it until it fits.

Okay, I think vote gone long enough because we got vote in the sixties trying battle each other out....

This should end some time ago

[X][IDEALS] Social Democrat: Centered around the idea that it is the state's responsibility to ensure a bare-minimum standard of living, the Social Democrats add to the New Capitalist agenda with a push for a government guarantee of adequate housing, food, and water to all citizens -- itself a fairly titanic task. It remains rooted in the fundamental ideal of private enterprise. The Social Democrats have some interest in the potential of democratized workplaces and are willing to support them in an experimental measure.

[X][IDEALS] Socialist: Having come to refer to a specific political movement rather than an entire branch of ideology, modern socialism is focused on giving the state the power to care for allcitizens, and claims that the modern Social Democrat platform does not go far enough in pursuit of this. It also calls for a massive investment into healthcare in order to revitalize the field and make sure that there are enough medical professionals to go around (long-term, they want free healthcare, but there needs to be enough of it first). They also grant unions extensive privileges over private employers. They are fervently in favor of democratized workplaces, and openly campaign in favor of granting them special concessions.

[X][CRUSH] None. This is a democracy. If your ideology cannot make its case to the people in practice, it deserves to fail.

[X][POWER] You are a centralized federal state along the lines of the later United States.

[X][TEXT] The Constitution serves as a broad guide for the structure of this document, and many legal concepts integral to it carry through, but it is rewritten from the ground up to serve its new situation rather than simply amending it until it fits.

Opifex-Plebian said:

Okay, I think vote gone long enough because we got vote in the sixties trying battle each other out....

This should end some time ago

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No it shouldn't, this is an absurdly big vote.

Opifex-Plebian said:

Okay, I think vote gone long enough because we got vote in the sixties trying battle each other out....

This should end some time ago

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Just wait until we have a Presidential election.

BoredStudent1414 said:

I am curious if there will be a mechanism to somehow represent the potentially conservative populations of areas we may incorporate in the future despite the very left wing bend of SV.

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We know there's a "pissed off New Capitalists" malus for picking Socialism and Communism, so however it works mechanically can probably be adapted to that.

[X][IDEALS] Social Democrat: Centered around the idea that it is the state's responsibility to ensure a bare-minimum standard of living, the Social Democrats add to the New Capitalist agenda with a push for a government guarantee of adequate housing, food, and water to all citizens -- itself a fairly titanic task. It remains rooted in the fundamental ideal of private enterprise. The Social Democrats have some interest in the potential of democratized workplaces and are willing to support them in an experimental measure.
[X][CRUSH] None. This is a democracy. If your ideology cannot make its case to the people in practice, it deserves to fail.
[X][POWER] You are a decentralized federal state somewhat akin to the early United States.
[X][TEXT] The Constitution serves as a broad guide for the structure of this document, and many legal concepts integral to it carry through, but it is rewritten from the ground up to serve its new situation rather than simply amending it until it fits.
[X][REVIEW] The new Constitution should be put to review and possible revision every thirty years.

@sciencefiction and @Crowhunter, can the two of you please fix your votes so they can be counted properly.

So whos winning now? I would look at the tally, but its kind of cancer to look at.

Ghostdevil said:

So whos winning now? I would look at the tally, but its kind of cancer to look at.

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Social Dems lead by two last I check and merged the disparate votes.

Thebigpieman said:

Social Dems lead by two last I check and merged the disparate votes.

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Sweet!

Don't worry, the Capitalist masses will sweep in at any second to dominate the vote
Any second now!

BoredStudent1414 said:

I am curious if there will be a mechanism to somehow represent the potentially conservative populations of areas we may incorporate in the future despite the very left wing bend of SV. Despite all the arguments I heard, it still seem unlikely that conservative capitalists would be completely eliminated as a political force. Reduced significantly yes and in a probably quite different form than present day Republicans but to the point they have no influence at all? That is hard to believe. I wonder if we will have shenanigans like biased expansion where people prioritize incorporating left leaning areas before known conservative leaning areas to support their base and avoid diluting the socialist leaning electorate base with conservatives as long as possible. People get creative and that is an interesting thing. How would the mostly left SV readers react if election and party support algorithms determine a conservative candidate or party has just won the latest in-game election? I hope we could figure something out that accommodates this hypothetical in-universe situation and the left lean of most of SV. Agreements among the readers to not sabotage an duly elected character by making they do wildly out of character decisions. Or we could just hold that the SV base represents the people of the setting reducing the degree of realism to avoid a potentially big tide of anger and for simplicity's sake? Or we could declare in-universe that conservative capitalists are as unwelcome here as the Victorians with all the consequences that implies.

That's avoiding the elephant in the room of what to with the population of Victoria if we conquer it. We claim Victoria's lands as rightful parts of America after all. We doubt we will give the ex-Victorians voting rights right away, and there would be a long reconstruction period. But it would be wrong to deny Americans voting rights forever and who knows how the ex-Victorians might react? They might retain open or hidden reactionary beliefs, become loyal but conservative leaning citizens, or even totally reject their previous circumstances and embrace socialism or communism. But that's a long ways away so we can ignore the elephant for now.

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I aint even conservative tho
(Overall i mean)

[X][IDEALS] Socialist
[X][CRUSH] None
[X][POWER] You are a devolved unitary state with subordinate governments formed or dissolved by central governmental decrees according to need
[x][TEXT] The Constitution serves as a broad guide for the structure of this document, and many legal concepts integral to it carry through, but it is rewritten from the ground up to serve its new situation rather than simply amending it until it fits.
[x][REVIEW] The new Constitution should be put to review and possible revision every thirty years.

[X][IDEALS] Communist: The old revolutionary ideology has elected to push for their aims in the democratic process. Their modern platform, in this setting, is centered around the absolute implementation of workplace democracy in addition to the same welfare and legal measures proposed by other movements. The aims of the American Communists in the present day are to break the concept of private ownership of businesses, which places them in stark opposition to Capitalist and Social Democrat thought of this era. This is a part of a larger drive towards a transition to a fully Communist society, but the Communists have quite enough to be focused on at the moment and are leaving that aside

[X][IDEALS] Socialist: Having come to refer to a specific political movement rather than an entire branch of ideology, modern socialism is focused on giving the state the power to care for all citizens, and claims that the modern Social Democrat platform does not go far enough in pursuit of this. It also calls for a massive investment into healthcare in order to revitalize the field and make sure that there are enough medical professionals to go around (long-term, they want free healthcare, but there needs to be enoughof it first). They also grant unions extensive privileges over private employers. They are fervently in favor of democratized workplaces, and openly campaign in favor of granting them special concessions.

[X][CRUSH] None. This is a democracy. If your ideology cannot make its case to the people in practice, it deserves to fail.

[X][CRUSH] Some of the central tenets of the founding government's ideology are written into foundational law, making it difficult for even violently opposed successor governments to fully roll them back without immense popular support.

[X][POWER] You are a devolved unitary state with subordinate governments formed or dissolved by central governmental decrees according to need

[X][TEXT] The Constitution serves as a broad guide for the structure of this document, and many legal concepts integral to it carry through, but it is rewritten from the ground up to serve its new situation rather than simply amending it until it fits.

[X][TEXT] The Constitution was utterly bereft of any kind of legal, political, or ethical merit and shall be cast into the trash heap of history where it belongs. We shall start anew from a blank slate.

[X][REVIEW] The new Constitution should be put to review and possible revision every thirty years.

Timewinders said:

I honestly think it speaks more of SV's demographics than anything else. In real life America soc dem would be too left to win (we might see an exception in 2020 but that's more due to a crowded Democratic primary than anything else). Normally you'd get most people preferring either social liberals or capitalists. Plus a small but present minority supporting libertarians.

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Of course SV is more leftist than America. It isn't a specifically American forum ! It has an awful lot of voters from other countries, pretty all of which are less economically right-wing than current America.

[X][IDEALS] Social Democrat
[X][CRUSH] None
[X][POWER] You are a devolved unitary state with subordinate governments formed or dissolved by central governmental decrees according to need
[X][TEXT] The Constitution serves as a broad guide for the structure of this document, and many legal concepts integral to it carry through, but it is rewritten from the ground up to serve its new situation rather than simply amending it until it fits.
[X][REVIEW] The new Constitution should be put to review and possible revision every thirty years.

[X][IDEALS] Social Democrat: Centered around the idea that it is the state's responsibility to ensure a bare-minimum standard of living, the Social Democrats add to the New Capitalist agenda with a push for a government guarantee of adequate housing, food, and water to all citizens -- itself a fairly titanic task. It remains rooted in the fundamental ideal of private enterprise. The Social Democrats have some interest in the potential of democratized workplaces and are willing to support them in an experimental measure.
[X][CRUSH] None. This is a democracy. If your ideology cannot make its case to the people in practice, it deserves to fail.
[X][POWER] You are a decentralized federal state somewhat akin to the early United States.
[X][TEXT] The Constitution serves as a broad guide for the structure of this document, and many legal concepts integral to it carry through, but it is rewritten from the ground up to serve its new situation rather than simply amending it until it fits.
[X][REVIEW] The new Constitution should be put to review and possible revision every thirty years.