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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Snowfire said:
Well, we know that there's been mistranslation in the Bible at least once, it's stated outright in White Night that 'Suffer not the witch to live' was improperly translated to produce that quote. So there's definitely some points of loss involved.
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Also makes sense, since you don't want to divorce conflict between the Church and magic users from the setting. Proper narrative conventions would also state that Free Will is a big thing and reality edits to ensure no one spread anything dicey which might end up having long term consequences would contradict that.

I more meant that the bible would be changed in such a way that you could read it, and go "hey, God doesn't sound like such a bad guy on the face of things even with a lot of in-depth analysis and highly critical panning of his holy text". Which is the sheer minimum of what I would expect for a deity that powerful if they were actually intending on keeping up even the bare minimum of what their faith says they do and would follow through on.
 
If the white council was ever destroyed or fractured to the point where enemies can swoop in then its pretty much end game for humanity. They police the world and stop evil gods and shit from wrecking havoc. Its noted that enough wizards performing rituals with enough power can kill gods and destroy entire species. The white council technically has enough power that they could probably if they did the right rituals destroy the world. I mean a thousand years of resources and a bunch of knowledge of rituals and shit they could easily do it. I mean chicago alone has had more than half a dozen events in the last decade which could have potentially wiped out humanity or a large portion of it. The White Council have been dealing with disasters that dresden finds for over a thousand year. The White Council is basically THE magical authority that protects humans. WIthout it humans are pretty fucked as a lot things like the accords and the laws of magic can suddenly be broken.
 
By the way, found some potentially useful spells in Dragonlance:
Magius's Light of Truth – Spell – D&D Tools
The damage and debilating effects are not worth 500XP, but it's also a Banishment (with no stated limits) to all non-lawful outsiders it hits.
You can remove an entire horde of demons in one shot with this one.
Niche, but if the situation comes up we'll be glad to have it usable through our Arcana.

Displace MemoryEnchantment (Compulsion)[Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Ta r g e t : Two living creatures touched
Duration: 1 day/level
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Ye s

You remove a memory from one creature's mind and place it into another, displacing 10 minutes of memory per caster level from the target's mind and placing that memory into the mind of another willing creature. You must have some knowledge of the memory to be displaced in order to cast this spell (either having witnessed the same event, or having been told of the event from the target creature whose memory you wish to displace). The memory you displace must be of a single event occurring in continuous time (so you could displace any number of consecutive encounters in an adventure up to the maximum time, but not arbitrarily displace just the fi rst and last encounters, no matter how short). As well, you can only displace a memory that has been formed within a number of years equal to your caster level.For example: A White Robe wizard needs to send secret intelligence to the Orders of an event he witnessed. By removing the memory of the event from his mind and placing it into the mind of his servant, she can carry the message unnoticed while his enemies focus on him.This spell cannot be cast upon creatures with Intelligence less than 5. A spellcaster can cast this spell upon himself as either the source of the displaced memory or the target.
Material Component: Two pieces of clear quartz, placed on the foreheads of both creatures.
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This (Towers of High Sorcery) has some potential, particularly if it's about Scrying spells or other effects where first-hand knowledge is useful for the caster.

Reverse DeathNecromancy [Death]
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 9
Components: V, S, M, XP
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Ta r g e t : Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: No
This potent spell enables you to return one creature to life, although it comes at a great cost. You can resurrect a dead being, as long as it has not been dead for longer than 1 minute per caster level. The body makes an involuntary Will save (with a –1 penalty for each minute the target has been dead). If the saving throw fails, the target dies again (suffering the same effects detailed below). If the saving throw succeeds, you have dragged its spirit from the River of Souls, binding it within its body once again and returning it to life. This spell does not heal the body of damage nor does it purify the body of poison or disease. Thus, if a target died because of reaching negative hit points or because of the effects of poison or disease, it will simply die once again, but this time its soul will become one of the restless dead (a ghost, see Monster Manual). If the victim died because of massive damage, the spell will work as normal (unless the massive damage brought the victim to lower the –10 hit points).
Material Component: A black pearl.
XP Cost: 1,000 XP per minute the body has been dead.
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A Rezz spell that does not allow the target to resist.
Might be useful at some point.
 
Artemis1992 said:
A Rezz spell that does not allow the target to resist.
Might be useful at some point.
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Woah.

Seems rather restrictive for the purposes of trying to get a living being that died due to bodily trauma though.

Was about to say "slow down there, Satan" but those guidelines are highly niche... seems fair.
 
Crake said:
Woah.

Seems rather restrictive for the purposes of trying to get a living being that died due to bodily trauma though.

Was about to say "slow down there, Satan" but those guidelines are highly niche... seems fair.
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We can propably repair the body first, but every minute taken raises the costs and makes the save harder.
 
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Part MMDCXLIII: Hound's Hunt
  • Threadmarks
    • Hound's Hunt​

    Twentieth Day of the Eighth Month 293 AC

    "I would very much give a shit if the Mountain died," you reply plainly and honestly. "If you brought me his severed head I would weigh it up in gold for you, but if you publicly murdered him with half the world watching in the middle of my realm, I would have little choice but to hang you for murder. It would sour the moment quite a bit to repay a good deed in that fashion."

    "Oh aye, 'murder'. Wouldn't want to have kinslaying stain your cobbles, would you? A knight killed by a dog?" Sandor frowns ferociously, the expression pulling at his scars in a way that almost makes you wince in sympathy. Why had he never had them seen to by a proper healer you wonder. Perhaps if it was indeed the Mountain who gave them to him he wears them as a band of his own desire for vengeance, or worse still he feels he deserves the pain as penance for some perceived failure.

    "Rest assured, I do not count your bother a knight, who has defiled those vows in the most heinous of ways," you counter. "If he had been so foolish as to come here he would have likely suffered a very unfortunate accident long before he took a step into the arena. Or got himself an appointment with the hangman within a day all on his own."

    "And who would have dragged him before the hangman, eh?" the Hound asks, still surly as ever though at least he is listening. "Those watchmen in grey cloaks? They would've shat themselves at the sight of him, same as the gold cloaks and the red cloaks too..." An expression far too cynical to be called a smile flashes for a moment upon his face. "Doesn't matter what color you wrap a thief-catcher, they ain't doing shit to Gregor." The words have almost the ring of religious conviction, as though his brother were his own personal devil whom he alone can slay... or perhaps needs to slay. There is fear to his words too, old and heavy, a burden denied even to himself you suspect.

    "You were able to best me alone by a razor's edge of skill, Sandor Clegane. How do you think your brother would have managed against a score of my sisters all just as skilled as I?" Leto interjects. The hardened steel chain at her belt twitches to her command like a serpent waking from its slumber.

    "So you're a witch, too?" the Hound asks, sounding almost relieved to move away from speaking of his brother.

    "Only if you insist on calling every woman who has ever used magic that," the Fury replies coldly. "The world is changed, Clegane, and you keep your eyes closed to it at your peril."

    "The world never fucking changes," he shakes his head as though dispelling a buzzing fly from his ear.

    "There were many noble houses, important magisters, and rich merchants in the cities I've conquered who thought the same," you reply, refusing to allow Clegane to sink back into the apathy that seems to hang about him like an unseen cloak. "It turns out that hemp ropes cared little for their money or their titles, and neither did the crows."

    "And who did you put in their place, then?" he rumbles. "Bastards who were quicker with the knife when you came calling?"

    "You know Clegane, if you had slammed that door in my face I would have walked away without another word, but having let me in could you do me the courtesy of listening to what I am saying?" The anger in your words is real and hopefully enough to pry his eyes open at least a fraction.

    "When my brother took Tyrosh some of the palace guards reasoned that they would gain his favor by bringing him the heads of the Archon's family," Dany speaks up in cold and measured tones. "I saw those men hang with my own eyes, and the former Archon's kin are still alive and well."

    Silence falls, interrupted only by the clank of steel as the Hound works, and for a long time it seems like he is not going to answer at all. Finally he does speak, his voice rough with more emotions than anger: "Good for them, then. I still have to kill Gregor." The words 'and die doing it' hang so clearly in the air, he might as well have shouted them.

    Rather than addressing the matter directly, you take a different track: "It is strange that you traveled this far on nothing but a hunch to face your brother. It seems Tywin Lannister hardly cared about the last 'hunting accident' that saw a Clegane dead, so why should you face more scrutiny if another occurred?"

    "You know why, damn you!" the Hound explodes. "Because he's Tywin's monster, his to keep on a leash or to kill when he damn well pleases."

    What do you reply?

    [] Write in

    OOC: I know this is short, but like with Mel this situation is very delicate, and I think requiring player input about where you want to try and lead him.
     
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    • You know... I am having a real problem caring about Clegane right now, his absolute denseness is irritating me, it feels like its best just to let him go on his on and die or kill the mountain.
     
    Did we come to this meeting with full social spells active, @DragonParadox? It sure doesn't look like it.

    Not that I expected us to have Sandor eating out of the palms of our hands, but this is a degree of stubbornness in the face of a new reality that is concerning. I want a useful tool, not one that is so broken we end up spending a lot of valuable Viserys time trying to fix him.
     
    The social situation here is supposed to be "here's a person with enough karmic debt and kismet that pays to make this 'encounter' interesting and not just a simple 'one and done' recruitment action".

    The thing you have to realize is with the new system DP had to find new ways to make social encounters interesting, and Sandor was pretty narrow in his focus on Gregor to exclusion of everything else in life.

    So he probably just slapped a +20 modifier on his Opinion in relation to Gregor, and Sandor is infamously cynical, so I would not be surprised if there were a few other modifiers keeping the current state of the conversation at "Viserys is slowly wearing him down, but keep in mind that you have to keep coming up with decent arguments to make him start leading himself towards those same conclusions because of how much he would prefer his apathetic and nihilistic point of view to be justified, because then it would mean his family died because of reasons that he couldn't have changed".
     
    Goldfish said:
    Did we come to this meeting with full social spells active, @DragonParadox? It sure doesn't look like it.

    Not that I expected us to have Sandor eating out of the palms of our hands, but this is a degree of stubbornness in the face of a new reality that is concerning. I want a useful tool, not one that is so broken we end up spending a lot of valuable Viserys time trying to fix him.
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    You did, but the problem is that you are trying to undermine the very core of his identity, that's a hell of a opinion modifier. He is frightened of Gregor yes, but he is terrified of letting go of his view of the world because he has nothing else.
     
    The threading of the needle here is to not only knock out the pillar that forms the foundation of Sandor's byronic impetus, but also to replace it in the same motion with something of equal value to him.
     
    My counter thrust here would largely coincide with slowly eroding the idea that Gregor matters, so much as the state of the world that allowed a Gregor to form.

    Basically, we need to do the following:

    1) Convince Sandor that there were people responsible that should be held accountable for the state of the world, where monsters like Gregor Clegane can prosper, and that they can and will be held accountable. Have been, in some cases. The point with our conquest of Tyrosh and those men who tried to curry our favor more often than not ending up at the end of a rope notwithstanding.
    2) Convince him we are a figure of not only the same accountability, using the numerous occasions where we upheld our word no matter how difficult, unpleasant or inconvenient it was to us, and that justice not only matters, it is enforceable, even practical.
    3) That getting even with Gregor wasn't important to Sandor, it was trying to find some form of atonement, for feeling helpless, afraid, but all the while have himself come to that same conclusion rather than try to use it against him. That just becomes a new threat for him to lash out at.
    4) In the same motion, give him purpose, every moving hand, the eyes and ears of our realm, our agents and our own will is guided in purpose to make right the horrors inflicted upon others by the men such as Gregor. Sandor could find a place and purpose in that, the same as many have.

    In the course of doing this we need to be careful, since it could end with a case of Sandor never being convinced until his own personal bogeyman was killed. Probably even asking us to do it for him, if we're so powerful that we can strike down his ghost than at the very least all the other "bullshit" we're spouting is truth.

    That is reductive and not helpful to us. We need to find a way to get some measure of immediate trust so that we can later build on it, not have this come down to ultimatums and bargaining.

    Then we can start conditioning him building up a mutual understanding, as well as his own confidence.
     
    DragonParadox said:
    And who would have dragged him before the hangman eh?" the Hound asks still surly as ever though at least he is listening. "Those watchmen in grey cloaks. They would've shat themselves at the sight of him, same as the Gold Cloaks and the Red Claoks too..."
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    I would have been satisfying if we could have just gone LHD form here and said we'd do it if we had too. But i feel that it probably would have made the situation worse. With clegane simply assuming us as a noble taking our revenge on someone that we feel slighted us.
     
    superguy2876 said:
    I would have been satisfying if we could have just gone LHD form here and said we'd do it if we had too. But i feel that it probably would have made the situation worse. With clegane simply assuming us as a noble taking our revenge on someone that we feel slighted us.
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    You're right here, he is not thinking rationally, he is thinking in terms that support his underlying state of mind, that the world is unfair and that there is nothing you can do to change it. That is what we're arguing against. Not "Gregor cannot be killed" or "Gregor should be killed", but that "it is natural for there to be a Gregor and there will always be Gregors, prospering in the decaying world we are 'privileged' to merely survive in".
     
    Crake said:
    You're right here, he is not thinking rationally, he is thinking in terms that support his underlying state of mind, that the world is unfair and that there is nothing you can do to change it. That is what we're arguing against. Not "Gregor cannot be killed" or "Gregor should be killed", but that "it is natural for there to be a Gregor and there will always be Gregors, prospering in the decaying world we are 'privileged' to merely survive in".
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    Yea with DP stating that his worldview is all he has. This is a situation in which clegane is going to end up fighting for something despite it not being in his interests. His own worldview is almost like fighting FOR his brother simply because he can't imagine it any other way. I think he needs to realize that without us explicitly pointing that out.
     
    I would write up a plan but I don't want to do that just yet, there are other people invested in this and I am content to merely offer analysis on what we are up against.

    With that said, you have to keep in mind that we need tangible, practical, easily understood comparisons, ones that he can draw largely from all that is implicit in his own innate understanding of those situations compared to ones that have occurred in Westeros, where he is familiar with the "rule of law".

    The Magisters of Essos are easily understood in their evil, because all in Westeros know "of course they are wicked, they keep slaves/are merchants/are decadent".

    But that is useless when he has his mind on things closer to heart.

    Pointing out a situation occurring in Westeros, like Septons dragging away already impoverished and punished nobles for "being sinful" while letting the corrupt prosper is a situation that has had consequences, that has undermined the rule of those who have permitted this situation in a way, all because of fear and madness.

    And then point out that we have time and again come upon situations where being decent and communicating and even doing things that weren't easy, that took time, and took resources (like rebuilding the slums of Tyrosh, when we could have left them alone, or sending our men to quell unrest in the outlands when we could have just ignored the continued slavery occurring and instead reaped the rewards from ruling over the more prosperous and rich city states directly).

    We need to compare these types of situations with the decisions Tywin has made, the types of decisions that even allow Gregor to exist. This both downplays the role his brother holds, and gives him a new enemy, one that we have killed mirror images of, that means he can kill them too, but it also pairs it closely with the idea that justice is achievable and loyalty is rewarded, as we can also point out that the plot of the former Archon was uncovered by his daughter, who we made Head of her House instead of her brother, who would have been more easily accepted by other Tyroshi "worthies", and even easier to turn into a puppet.

    We don't do the easy thing, we do the Right Thing. "And so can he". Etc.
     
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    Give him more motivation.

    You want him dead? So do we. You think it's wrong for him to thrive in this world? So do we.

    If he wants to kill Gregor, if he gives us his time and service; we can give him that.

    In the meantime we will show him what our dominion entails. How we treat others. What we are building.
     
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