Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

yrsillar said:

The tangled threads where want overrode need. Where systems constructed nigh wholly by self interest and greed left ragged holes in societies tapestry, and left thousands to languish unfulfilled.

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Socialism!

yrsillar said:

"And those that remain are merely those whose requirements have not yet been accounted for. I firmly believe that with their needs met and acceptable avenues open for their wants, the citizenry of the empire will be better and more productive than ever, benefiting everyone."

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Altruism!

yrsillar said:

"This will be a thankless task. You will not be above my laws, I will not create them with your direct benefit in mind.

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Equality!

Truly, CRX's platform is monstrous. I can see why her Way is utter anathema to SV, makes perfect sense.

Cai Renxiang is not Lawful Neutral, she's clearly Lawful Good, and Lawful Good by relatively colloquial standards at that.

Neshuakadal said:

And what exactly is happening? Nothing has really changed. Cai has just stated her future goals. I don't see anything in those goals that show Cai plans to hurt us. I don't see anything in those goals that shows that Cai is planning to be a monster. So what is happening?

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Are you seriously arguing that friendship and not making exception for your friend can be a thing ?

Like, do you treat your friends the exact same way as you treat anyone else ? Because that's exactly what Cai just said she would do.m

archangis said:

Are you seriously arguing that friendship and not making exception for your friend can be a thing ?

Like, do you treat your friends the exact same way as you treat anyone else ? Because that's exactly what Cai just said she would do.m

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There's a difference between "Of course I'm happy to help out my friends more than a stranger" and "Of course I'll help my friend break/subvert the law"

Thor's Twin said:

Yeah, I was thinking about how nobody challenged us this past month. It would be interesting to see if anyone challenges us this month and for what reasons, and what options we have to choose from (unless it is automated to speed things up).

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From our research (and the commentary from our recent stepping stone), all of the new Inner Sect members were underseeded. It looks like they were initially put in at about 10-20 places too low. Nobody looking to move up through the ranks would want to challenge a freshie over the person immediately above or below them. Well, unless they ignored the end of year tournament and then didn't talk to anybody else about the newbies.

Once we start building momentum on our way up it's also unlikely we'd be challenged, since a person moving up through the rankings is probably somebody growing faster than the people around them. I guess maybe we could get challenged this month by somebody who doesn't share any specialties with us and who is very confident in their combat abilities, but it seems unlikely.

I would expect challenges to either come immediately, in the case where newbies were overseeded, or after we have plateaued in a ranking for long enough to look like a good target for the next generation or for somebody who just had a big breakthrough.

archangis said:

Are you seriously arguing that friendship and not making exception for your friend can be a thing ?

Like, do you treat your friends the exact same way as you treat anyone else ? Because that's exactly what Cai just said she would do.m

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So treating a friend differently then other people is what is expected. You serve them better tea. You play games with them to relax. That is what friends do, help make life more manageable by being there for you.

Making an exception for a friend sounds more like corruption. I will argue that friendship and making exception for friends can be very separate things.

I used to work in a library and had a small amount of authority. I could shush people in the library to remind them to be quiet and I could change the return date in the computer to fix any mistakes. A friend once asked me to change the date so that they would not have to pay an overdue fine. I smiled and said "I really can't do that for you." We are still great friends. I would shush my friends that were in the library to be quieter and they respected that.

Now this really depends on the culture. In Africa for example friendship is paramount. One must keep relationships positive so people will not call out friends for shoddy work and corruption and the trading of favors is everywhere. People will be thrown in jail just for looking the wrong way at a member of a prominent tribe. Placement in tribes is more valuable for judges then facts when determining verdicts. Its a huge problem that a great deal of African politicians are using a massive amount of effort to try and change that culture.

Interestingly the problem that African politicians (at least in the country of Tanzania) are trying to solve seems a great deal like the problem that Cai is trying to solve. Changing the very culture of a region so the increased stability and happiness can occur is a noble goal and one that is really hard and thankless as Tanzania is finding out.

[X] Drugged-Fueled Musical Battle Royale
[X] Battle Royale Skills

Much prefer EANP, although the ideal plan for me would train EANP and include challenge research.

So approval vote for it I guess:
[X]Plan Harmonic Convergence

[X] Drugged-Fueled Musical Battle Royale
[X] Battle Royale Skills

I just want the Night Parade.

[X] Drugged-Fueled Musical Battle Royale
[X] Battle Royale Skills

All aboard the rave train.

Kai Merah said:

There's a difference between "Of course I'm happy to help out my friends more than a stranger" and "Of course I'll help my friend break/subvert the law"

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Neshuakadal said:

So treating a friend differently then other people is what is expected. You serve them better tea. You play games with them to relax. That is what friends do, help make life more manageable by being there for you.

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Buddies, we are talking about friendship, not friendly acquaintance.

But here, as CRX want everything to be controlled by rules the difference is meaningless.

Inserted tally

archangis said:

Buddies, we are talking about friendship, not friendly acquaintance.

But here, as CRX want everything to be controlled by rules the difference is meaningless.

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It's ridiculous for you to think that just because LQ is sorta-friends with CRX, she has to show unmistakable and illegal favoritism.

Arkeus said:

Authoritarian overtones are things that makes people uneasy, even if they knew they were there. This hasn't changed anything and it's everything we knew would happen, but it makes people who want to get CRX to mellow out a bit scared.

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It just means that we need more CRX socials. If only from principle "Keep friends close but enemies closer". Not that i believe that she is enemy, at least not to us.

yrsillar said:

On a side note. Cai is talking about the sort of quasi legal system fuckery and nepotism style stuff when she says that you won't be getting things from her. Please don't flanderize things

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The thing about that is that the only way a system like that works with humans, let alone immortal death gods, is if she formalizes it. Take the grey/black economy and bring it into the light. Even then, you end up with something like Legend of the Five Rings, and the Scorpion clan, a different kind of "legal system fuckery and nepotism".

Basically, what she wants is inhuman. As in, literally incompatible with humans. At least, in any system that has ever existed in RL. Most people care about family first, laws and rules after. Even with a surveillance state and draconian punishments, all you do is weed the fields. So the subversives that do survive are better at it. I just hope CRX can settle for a close enough human variant of her system. If she tries to remove all inefficiencies, she'll make it inhuman, and herself a tyrant. Then again, inhuman tyrants are a setting staple.

archangis said:

Buddies, we are talking about friendship, not friendly acquaintance.

But here, as CRX want everything to be controlled by rules the difference is meaningless.

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If my best friend murdered an innocent person and asked for my help to get away with it, I... okay, I'd probably help them out because that's the kind of person I am. That said, I understand there are people who wouldn't do something like that for their best friend, and that is a perfectly valid point of view, because Justice really should not be dependent on how close a friend the accused is to the judge.

[X] Plan CRX won't bully us with her dispels anymore

[X] Drugged-Fueled Musical Battle Royale
[X] Battle Royale Skills

archangis said:

Like, do you treat your friends the exact same way as you treat anyone else ?

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In your role as a lawmaker, you sure as hell do.

Well, you sure as hell are supposed to, I guess. In practice it doesn't always work out that way...

[X] Plan CRX won't bully us with her dispels anymore
[X] Skill plan: Sweetly Social Songs

I am kinda unsure about the challenge research going off before the cultivation actions, but the other plan trains the summoning art instead of the resist art that is actually missing from Ling's repertoire so it's a non starter.

Rather than bothering with the art debate I'm just going to talk about skills. We should train speech. Cai just talked with us about how she thinks a more active social role would fit our bardness well (like some of us had already identified). We can get speech to D this turn while still hitting the other skill levels we want in the other plans.

You don't need to vote Battle Royale skills just because you're voting for Battle Royale plan. You don't even need to vote for an art plan at all if you don't want!

Vote [] Skill plan: Sweetly Social Songs

Vote social! Vote for skill level ups!

Vote Speech!

Waves flag

archangis said:

Buddies, we are talking about friendship, not friendly acquaintance.

But here, as CRX want everything to be controlled by rules the difference is meaningless.

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What would you do for a friend then? Because there are definitely limits for what I would do for a friend, yet I see no limit for you which is honestly a little concerning.

primemountain said:

The thing about that is that the only way a system like that works with humans, let alone immortal death gods, is if she formalizes it. Take the grey/black economy and bring it into the light. Even then, you end up with something like Legend of the Five Rings, and the Scorpion clan, a different kind of "legal system fuckery and nepotism".

Basically, what she wants is inhuman. As in, literally incompatible with humans. At least, in any system that has ever existed in RL. Most people care about family first, laws and rules after. Even with a surveillance state and draconian punishments, all you do is weed the fields. So the subversives that do survive are better at it. I just hope CRX can settle for a close enough human variant of her system. If she tries to remove all inefficiencies, she'll make it inhuman, and herself a tyrant. Then again, inhuman tyrants are a setting staple.

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The key word in CRX little speech is wish. This is her dream that she is working towards. A utopia that I believe she knows she will not reach. Why do I believe that? Because of the time we have spent here in the inner sect. She is pragmatic willing to change her ideas on things if new information comes to light. These are not the actions of someone blind to the world or how often dreams truly happen.

I also believe that some people are blowing this dream way out of proportion. Why? Because of these lines (bolded to add emphasis)

I have bent certain rules in last years proceedings, for the purpose of testing, but I will not weave such expectations into the foundations of what I seek to build. The Outer Sect was a testing ground, and what occurred there is to be remembered and learned from, but it must be left behind. You do understand that?"

Here we see the fundamental problem that Cai will be trying to address. Neoptism and corruption are built into the very laws of the realm. She does not say that there will never be bendings of rules in the future. What she does say is that those bent rules will not be common occurrences.

In the outer sect we have seen how pragmatic she can be. Even I one of the most venomous attackers of Cai in the "Cai vote" have seen the character that Yrs is building and have faith both in his writing and the direction CRX is heading. So please do not take things to the utmost extreme because it is incredibly unlikely that such things will come to pass.

Kai Merah said:

If my best friend murdered an innocent person and asked for my help to get away with it, I... okay, I'd probably help them out because that's the kind of person I am. That said, I understand there are people who wouldn't do something like that for their best friend, and that is a perfectly valid point of view, because Justice really should not be dependent on how close a friend the accused is to the judge.

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And if their friend broke a small rule, like I don't know, speeding, or something small like that. What would a friend do ? Let it go or force them to go to the police ?

[X] Plan CRX won't bully us with her dispels anymore
[X] Skill plan: Sweetly Social Songs

I have been convinced about speech. I really don't like war but since everyone is training it a little bit I will go with speech.

SITB said:

I am kinda unsure about the challenge research going off before the cultivation actions, but the other plan trains the summoning art instead of the resist art that is actually missing from Ling's repertoire so it's a non starter.

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Yrs confirmed that if we are challenged we have no control for when the challenges occurs, but when we are challenging someone we can assume that it will be post training of both arts and skills. For the purpose of the plan with challenge, it means getting:

• HDW4, FSS6, FVM8, SES4
• Manip B (likely only), fortitude D
• Domain F

archangis said:

And if their best friend broke a small rule, like I don't know, speeding, or something small like that. What would a friend do ? Let it go or force them to go to the police ?

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Well, given that in this case we would basically be the police and Renxiang our boss...

Yes absolutely she should punish us.

[X] Drugged-Fueled Musical Battle Royale