So you plan on doing double standards regarding fey and humans?
Why?
We should have one set of laws and one set of punishments, same for all. This is order how I see it.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
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So you plan on doing double standards regarding fey and humans?
Why?
We should have one set of laws and one set of punishments, same for all. This is order how I see it.
Because the system is designed to avoid that so we can actually have a story to tell rather than a list of monotonous victories whenever Viserys engages in social combat.
The problem is you are mixing the regular fae, who our citizens, and the Fae courts, foreign powers that seek influence on our territory:
The Fae courts are the ones who do things like replacing Renly with a changeling, for reference. They are not our subjects, nor would they swear such oaths lightly as they have a lot more power.
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- Location
- ?????????
Yes I agree the rules will apply equally. If a human somehow screws a fey then he gets punished. Same as a fey. Their ability will be curtailed if they swear to follow our laws. So yeah I want them to do so. It just so happens that some aspect of their power will be curtailed by our laws.
- Location
- Germany
Precisely this is what we have and what I keep fighting to preserve.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
This. The Fey aren't a single overarching threat which we have to deal with. Going all genocidal murderboner on them is counterproductive.
I think the issue some folks have with them is that the Fey tend to be meddlesome to one degree or another, and their meddling is more likely to come at you from an unexpected angle, while your back is turned, in the dark, while you're fighting something that seems more immediately dangerous. The more you know about the Fey, the powers they can wield and the habits they can express, I believe the more likely you are to not wish to deal with them.
It doesn't help that they come from the Feywild, which is simply terrifying. I don't think I'm the only one here who wishes to completely avoid the place for fear of being displaced in time for weeks, months, or even years.
Even then, I do not see any reason to treat an interaction any differently than with another human kingdom, for example.
Exchanging Renly could have been done as a spy action by a powerful spellcaster of another kingdom.
In my eyes the action is important, not whose kingdom makes it, be it a fey court, an Empire or another Dragon.
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Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
A smaller bag of holding to stash hot junk that he wouldn't want people eyeballing, maybe. A holdout weapon specifically for fey is definitely a must-have, if you're a martial character being less than absolutely Maximally Equipped is unacceptable.
The Fae are far more powerful than most human kingdoms for obvious reasons. Individual Courts are not too powerful, but they can certainly actually be an obstacle to us. So we must treat them with caution to match.
Specially the ones in the Reach, as the fae influence is very strong in those lands. This means there are likely more powerful fae at the top. Coming back to the actual point of this argument, the crown is powerful as a symbol as much as an artifact, and fae can draw literal power from symbols and stories, so they don't get to have it.
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Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
The way to handle this is to go to the local potentate and have them issue the general declaration that anyone living on our lands may apply for Imperial citizenship. Those who do not have a working visa or similar travel allowances and identification (paperwork must be submitted in triplicate for spell-casting merchants
) will be deported. Forcibly. No exceptions. Then it becomes technical clause in the Fey narrative, if enough leading figures accept the terms then most will accept them, and those who don't can be destroyed with impunity because it helps solidify the influence of the few individual groups who play ball.
- Location
- United States
Same. That time displacement thing is utterly terrifying considering how fully we use every single day in our empire building. Imagine accidentally going to the Feywild, then escaping and finding out we missed a month. Holy shit, that's sobering.
Anyway, @Goldfish, what's the best gear we could give Fey!Renly whenever he starts his Feywild adventure?
I'm thinking we put him through intensive training for at least a week to figure out his build and see what kind of PC class we can force onto him, then determine what gear to give him.
But the basics at least should be straightforward, IMO.
Cold Iron Thinblade (+1) (possibly feybane for maximum effectiveness?, or is there a better enchantment we could go with?)
Double Crossbow (+1) (with Cold Iron & Mithral Bolts)
Razorsharp Adamantine Dagger
Boneward Belt (+1 CON)
Anklets of Translocation
Cloak of Endure Elements
Gloves of Zephyr's Grace (+1 DEX)
Amulet of PfE (w/ Amulet of Tears effect)
Bead of Newt Prevention
Earring of Arcane Accuity
+ Stalwart Pact & Renewal Pact
I think our bigger problem is less about his gear and more about what minions we give him. He can't go in there alone. Do we hire a pack of Blink Dogs for him to serve as guides? Or get a volunteer from the Scholarum to be his adventuring partner?
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Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Besides some exaggeration for shitposting purposes, I am fine with Fey as individual beings and characters. There's little that one acting on their own can do that a spellcaster or PC or creature of another type couldn't if they had the inclination to cause trouble.
But the political entities, "the Fey", are very, very difficult to deal with traditionally, which tends to make them more trouble than they are worth, so planning for the eventuality that you will have to destroy them is sensible. Accepting that some might see reason is another eventuality you should also plan for, and of course, exploit.
- Location
- ?????????
- Location
- United States
They're going to be in completely different places in the Feywild, and he's going to be busy with his own quest. If we manage to get a way to communicate with the Ifequevron without risking ever stepping foot in the Feywild that would be fantastic.
- Location
- Goose Land
The big difference is the fact that Fey are innately magical. We have laws that specifically deal with magic users and those don't apply to the everyman (yet), and so we'll likely need specific laws that have to deal with Fey once we actually have a proper Court within our domain that the leader of isn't directly beholden to one of our Companions.
Of course we could just have it so that every Fey Royal is directly beholden to us personally, but that feels like a lot of effort.
Imagine if every citizen of a kingdom was able to casually murder a standard citizen of your kingdom. Imagine if each of those citizens of that other kingdom had easy and reliable access to magic, and the standard citizen of your kingdom doesn't to that level. Imagine if the vast majority of citizens in that other kingdom had the ability to make Conceptual Deals of some sort, decades of experience in making deals of that kind at minimum, and regularly made use of said ability to try their best to gain power over others, and your citizens don't have anything approaching any of that.
Now imagine said kingdom popping up in the middle of your domain without any warning and without any attempts at diplomacy from their ruling body to explain why they're there, that they're there, or to negotiate terms for access to land that was previously yours. Their citizens are interacting with your citizens with no regard to your laws and now you have stories going about in regards to your people being screwed over at best by this intruding kingdom's citizens.
If a Court is willing to negotiate entrance into our lands and abide by our laws, then there's no issues at all. But you'll notice that every Fey Court we've heard of either randomly showed up into someone else's domain or specifically infiltrated into said domain in an effort to gain power.
The two advantages humans tend to have against Fey are numbers and Cold Iron. The latter only bypasses their DR making them any amount of killable, and the former is cold comfort when so many of those numbers would end up dying.
This is exactly why we have the Inquisition, because we can't rely on any Fey who shows up to abide by our laws especially if they randomly show up and are inclined to treat mortals like fey usually treat mortals. And also demons and devils and rogue magic users, but I expect a signficant percentage of Inquisition Work to have to do with fey and The Fey.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Do we have F!Renly's stats? He might need higher bonuses than +1 on his stat boosters.Same. That time displacement thing is utterly terrifying considering how fully we use every single day in our empire building. Imagine accidentally going to the Feywild, then escaping and finding out we missed a month. Holy shit, that's sobering.
Anyway, @Goldfish, what's the best gear we could give Fey!Renly whenever he starts his Feywild adventure?
I'm thinking we put him through intensive training for at least a week to figure out his build and see what kind of PC class we can force onto him, then determine what gear to give him.
But the basics at least should be straightforward, IMO.
Cold Iron Thinblade (+1) (possibly feybane for maximum effectiveness?, or is there a better enchantment we could go with?)
Double Crossbow (+1) (with Cold Iron & Mithral Bolts)
Razorsharp Adamantine Dagger
Boneward Belt (+1 CON)
Anklets of Translocation
Cloak of Endure Elements
Gloves of Zephyr's Grace (+1 DEX)
Amulet of PfE (w/ Amulet of Tears effect)
Bead of Newt Prevention
Earring of Arcane Accuity
+ Stalwart Pact & Renewal Pact
I think our bigger problem is less about his gear and more about what minions we give him. He can't go in there alone. Do we hire a pack of Blink Dogs for him to serve as guides? Or get a volunteer from the Scholarum to be his adventuring partner?
+1 Feybane Cold Iron Thinblade would be great. Mithral armor should also be on the list.
Boots of Speed (+30ft Enhancement bonus to speed) are cheap and useful.
I would give him more than one Bead of Newt Prevention. His Boneward Belt needs the Healing Belt effect, too.
He would probably benefit from a few Lesser False Ravens and a Greater one as well.
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- Location
- United States
We don't have his stats unfortunately.
I forgot about the armor! Good catch, there. Mithral armor is a must. What enchantment can we stick on it? Maybe Glamered to aid him in any courts he visits?
With Boneward Belt I was working under the assumption that it was automatically a Healing Belt.
Yes please to more than one Bead of Newt Prevention.
As for ravens, you're a genius. Not only should he get ravens, I'm tempted to give him a set of elemental wyrmlings to guard him.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Glamering the armor would be cheap, but possibly pointless. The Fey are have shown themselves to be very good at seeing through such illusions in this setting.
Elemental Wyrmlings are not cheap, at 500 IM each. We only have two full sets right now, though three more sets are being crafted this month.
I wonder if one of the Air-Infused Griffins we hired from the Plane of Air would like to accompany him?
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- Location
- United States
I wouldn't mind giving him a Hippogriff. I honestly flinched at the suggestion of seeing if a Griffon wanted to go to him. We spent a lot of hard-earned money hiring the Griffons.
But IIRC he has this weird fey horse and he's probably going to stick with it.
As for Elemental Wyrmlings... Damn. That is a lot. Maybe just one, then, to serve as a sort of guard or something?
- Location
- Germany
Why are you equipping him so much?
We are likely to loose that investment.
Edit: This narrative as a questing hero is much more likely to keep him alive than a +1 or +2 here and there.
We are likely to loose that investment.
Edit: This narrative as a questing hero is much more likely to keep him alive than a +1 or +2 here and there.
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Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Yes, there are cults, but once they are suppressed, and then activity similar to what followed is monitored, the Inquisition dealing with fiends is more of a situational crisis rather than an endemic problem.
Yes, there are rogue spellcasters, people who are unlawfully practicing their arts in our lands and doing dangerous research, but this is dealt with systematically by making the alternatives (government sponsorship) vastly more preferable than trying your luck against the Inquisition. Even those who's abilities are questionable will not be persecuted hastily, for they might find their abilities can be used to do objectively better things than human/spirit experimentation (common problem).
Yes, eldritch horrors from beyond creation are concerning, but they have spheres of influence. Once pushed outside of our borders, the Inquisition's work with them will consume a certain minimum amount of resources to monitor any resurgence in aberrant behavior.
The Fey however? They're tied to the land, which makes them endemic. This could be considered an obstacle to be carefully maneuvered around with gentle words and soft courtesies with a steel core at their center, or with fire and iron in large quantities, like any other infestation.
Even the most well-meaning are a drain on our budget. A constant "status" for a province which can give a (completely random) malus to resource generation or a somewhat random bonus.
The unreliability is the problem, because those better informed and equipped simply have to get to the point of complete independence regardless of possible aid from them, like the Silver Eye in Braavos. Despite having friendly relations with them, beyond the political face of requiring a degree of self-sufficiency, they simply aren't reliable, which can be the doom of normal people more than any other harm that could befall them by fey actions.
Take a village alderman or a chief who for years was paying tribute to the local Fey lord for protection. This Fey lord has amicable relations with this chief, and would even be somewhat sad to hear they had died.
These are backwater folk, they don't send word to the nearest Legion outpost when they have trouble with bandits or the like. They have friends in the area and they can rely on themselves.
Until they can't. A suspicious man in robes stops into town for a few days, his behavior becoming increasingly strange. The only one informed enough of what to look out for thanks to being briefed and somewhat educated by a Legion Colonel doesn't send word for an Inquisitor to come by and investigate. They ask their allies in the nearby woods for assistance.
Only their friends in the woods are all gathered in another Plane for a bender and feast celebrating some sort of celestial occurrence. Or a portent. Some bird crashed into a tree, a fox feasted on its entrails, or a sunbeam struck the Fey lord's face at midday.
There isn't anyone to help the village when the cultist gets jumpy and summons up a babau using the chief and other well-to-do locals' virgin daughters as fuel and tribute, and the rest of the settlement is wiped out overnight. The Colonel appears a week later and goes to the Fey lord as part of their investigation, and learns they were absent where usually they keep someone of sufficient power and experience posted at the forest's edge to make sure nothing nasty snacks on the locals.
The Colonel jots down a few notes and orders the settlement cleansed with flame, which incenses the Fey lord, so he orders the forest burnt out too.
The report lands on Malarys' desk, who stamps it and sends a copy to us.
Yes, there are rogue spellcasters, people who are unlawfully practicing their arts in our lands and doing dangerous research, but this is dealt with systematically by making the alternatives (government sponsorship) vastly more preferable than trying your luck against the Inquisition. Even those who's abilities are questionable will not be persecuted hastily, for they might find their abilities can be used to do objectively better things than human/spirit experimentation (common problem).
Yes, eldritch horrors from beyond creation are concerning, but they have spheres of influence. Once pushed outside of our borders, the Inquisition's work with them will consume a certain minimum amount of resources to monitor any resurgence in aberrant behavior.
The Fey however? They're tied to the land, which makes them endemic. This could be considered an obstacle to be carefully maneuvered around with gentle words and soft courtesies with a steel core at their center, or with fire and iron in large quantities, like any other infestation.
Even the most well-meaning are a drain on our budget. A constant "status" for a province which can give a (completely random) malus to resource generation or a somewhat random bonus.
The unreliability is the problem, because those better informed and equipped simply have to get to the point of complete independence regardless of possible aid from them, like the Silver Eye in Braavos. Despite having friendly relations with them, beyond the political face of requiring a degree of self-sufficiency, they simply aren't reliable, which can be the doom of normal people more than any other harm that could befall them by fey actions.
Take a village alderman or a chief who for years was paying tribute to the local Fey lord for protection. This Fey lord has amicable relations with this chief, and would even be somewhat sad to hear they had died.
These are backwater folk, they don't send word to the nearest Legion outpost when they have trouble with bandits or the like. They have friends in the area and they can rely on themselves.
Until they can't. A suspicious man in robes stops into town for a few days, his behavior becoming increasingly strange. The only one informed enough of what to look out for thanks to being briefed and somewhat educated by a Legion Colonel doesn't send word for an Inquisitor to come by and investigate. They ask their allies in the nearby woods for assistance.
Only their friends in the woods are all gathered in another Plane for a bender and feast celebrating some sort of celestial occurrence. Or a portent. Some bird crashed into a tree, a fox feasted on its entrails, or a sunbeam struck the Fey lord's face at midday.
There isn't anyone to help the village when the cultist gets jumpy and summons up a babau using the chief and other well-to-do locals' virgin daughters as fuel and tribute, and the rest of the settlement is wiped out overnight. The Colonel appears a week later and goes to the Fey lord as part of their investigation, and learns they were absent where usually they keep someone of sufficient power and experience posted at the forest's edge to make sure nothing nasty snacks on the locals.
The Colonel jots down a few notes and orders the settlement cleansed with flame, which incenses the Fey lord, so he orders the forest burnt out too.
The report lands on Malarys' desk, who stamps it and sends a copy to us.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
What we're talking about is really not much of an investment for us, in time or resources. Basic, essential gear which significantly increases one's effectiveness at minimal expense.