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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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On a different topic, I'm back to poking at Viserys' level up. Although I would still prefer Legendary Proportions, I guess we can find a scroll for it and have Lya learn it some day. In the interest of compromise, @TotallyNotEvil, I propose Viserys learn Arbitrament as his 7th level spell. It's the Pathfinder version of Word of Balance, but available to Clerics and thus something Viserys can learn. It's not got quite the same punch as Word of Balance, but it accomplishes the same thing in broad strokes, especially targeting anything with a non-Neutral Alignment component. Too many of our enemies, Devil and Illithids in particular, are Lawful Evil, rendering them completely immune to Dictum.

[] Viserys Level Up
-[] Class: +1 Dragon Mystic
--[] Metabreath Feat: Clinging Breath
-[] Skills (15 points, includes 3 missing points): +1 Bluff, +1 Concentration, +1 Diplomacy, +1 Intimidate, +1 Sense Motive, +1 Spellcraft, +1 Survival, +2 Knowledge(Arcana), +2 Knowledge(The Planes), +2 Listen, +2 Spot
-[] Spells:
--[] 3rd Level:
---[] Retrain: Dispel Magic >>> Primal Instinct
--[] 6th Level: Greater Dispel Magic
--[] 7th Level: Arbitrament
--[] 8th Level: Greater Angelic Aspect

[] Richard Level Up
-[] Attribute: +1 Strength
-[] Class: +1 Paragon Knight
-[] Bonus Feat: Greater Weapon Focus(Greatsword)
-[] Skills (5 points): +1 Concentration, +2 Knowledge(War), +2 Spellcraft
 
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Level 1: Blood Wind [Evocation], Nerveskitter [Transmutation], Mage Armor [Conjuration (Creation)], Shield [Abjuration], Silent Image [Illusion (Figment)], Magic of the Dragonheart [Transmutation], Amplify[SoW] [Transmutation] (9/7/day)
Level 2: Divine Insight [Divination], Scintillating Scales [Abjuration], Wings of Cover [Evocation], Elemental Dart [Conjuration (Creation)], Invisibility [Illusion (Glamer)], Mirror Image [Illusion (Figment)] (9/day)
Level 3: Fireball [Evocation], Blinding Breath [Transmutation], Dispel Magic [Abjuration], Ancestral Awakening [Transmutation], Phantom Steed [Conjuration (Creation)], Air of Nobility [Enchantment] (9/day)
Level 4: Voice of the Dragon [Transmutation], Fear [Necromancy], Resilient Sphere [Evocation], Celerity [Transmutation], Heart of Earth [Transmutation], Assay Spell Resistance [Divination], Dispelling Breath [Abjuration] (8/7/day)
Level 5: Teleport [Conjuration (Teleportation)], Firebrand [Evocation], Baleful Polymorph [Transmutation], Greater Blink [Transmutation], Necrotic Bomb [Necromancy], Mass Fire Shield [Evocation], Telekinesis [Transmutation] (8/day)
Level 6: Freezing Glance [Enchantment], Imperious Glare [Necromancy], Greater Shadow Enchantment [Illusion (Shadow)], Starmantle [Abjuration], Heal [Conjuration (Healing)] (8/day)
Level 7: Blood Wish [Universal], Greater Arcane Sight [Divination], Arcane Spellsurge [Universal], Greater Teleport [Conjuration (Teleportation)], Magic Army [Transmutation], Avasculate [Necromancy] (7/day)
Level 8: Nine Lives [Abjuration], Shadow of the Doom* [Transmutation] (4/day)

So. I had a suspicion that proved to be true, and did this little thing. We really are enthusiastic Transmuters.

By school:
Transmutation: 12
Evocation: 6
Conjuration: 6
Abjuration: 6
Necromancy: 4
Illusion: 4
Divination: 3
Universal: 2
Enchantment: 2

Quite interesting, isn't it? A surprising amount of Evocation and Abjuration, and relatively little Conjuration.
 
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Azel said:
Well, I need to sleep sometimes so I prefer not to drag out my entire reasoning when I know it will spark a huge row about the merits of letting all the Ironborn die to Illithids instead of spending some coin on them that we very much have.

Though I can't sleep anyway, so might as well have that row.
Pretty much this. I didn't mislead anyone, I just didn't announce that the platform I'm standing on is a unpopular one.
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That wasn't really how it reads and I thought the unpopular part is the sum, which you did announce.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Level 1: Blood Wind [Evocation], Nerveskitter [Transmutation], Mage Armor [Conjuration (Creation)], Shield [Abjuration], Silent Image [Illusion (Figment)], Magic of the Dragonheart [Transmutation], Amplify[SoW] [Transmutation] (9/7/day)
Level 2: Divine Insight [Divination], Scintillating Scales [Abjuration], Wings of Cover [Evocation], Elemental Dart [Conjuration (Creation)], Invisibility [Illusion (Glamer)], Mirror Image [Illusion (Figment)] (9/day)
Level 3: Fireball [Evocation], Blinding Breath [Transmutation], Dispel Magic [Abjuration], Ancestral Awakening [Transmutation], Phantom Steed [Conjuration (Creation)], Air of Nobility [Enchantment] (9/day)
Level 4: Voice of the Dragon [Transmutation], Fear [Necromancy], Resilient Sphere [Evocation], Celerity [Transmutation], Heart of Earth [Transmutation], Assay Spell Resistance [Divination], Dispelling Breath [Abjuration] (8/7/day)
Level 5: Teleport [Conjuration (Teleportation)], Firebrand [Evocation], Baleful Polymorph [Transmutation], Greater Blink [Transmutation], Necrotic Bomb [Necromancy], Mass Fire Shield [Evocation], Telekinesis [Transmutation] (8/day)
Level 6: Freezing Glance [Enchantment], Imperious Glare [Necromancy], Greater Shadow Enchantment [Illusion (Shadow)], Starmantle [Abjuration], Heal [Conjuration (Healing)] (8/day)
Level 7: Blood Wish [Universal], Greater Arcane Sight [Divination], Arcane Spellsurge [Universal], Greater Teleport [Conjuration (Teleportation)], Magic Army [Transmutation], Avasculate [Necromancy] (7/day)
Level 8: Nine Lives [Abjuration], Shadow of the Doom* [Transmutation] (4/day)

So. I had a suspicion that proved to be true, and did this little thing. We really are enthusiastic Transmuters.

By school:
Transmutation: 12
Evocation: 6
Conjuration: 6
Abjuration: 6
Necromancy: 4
Illusion: 4
Divination: 3
Universal: 2
Enchantment: 2

Quite interesting, isn't it?
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Neat analysis, dude.

Makes sense to me. Transmutation has the widest selection of available effects of any school of magic. Self buffs, enemy debuffs, tons of utility spells, great offensive spells, etc.
 
Goldfish said:
Although I disagree quite strongly with your proposed loan to the Iron Islands, I can't say that you seemed to be attempting to mislead anyone at any point. You've been quite straight forward from the beginning, though I do think you might not have chosen the best wording earlier.
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I blame a mix of cantankerousness from lack of sleep and a desire not to have the argument at all. Sorry about that.

The loan was basically a last-minute idea how to get him the necessary funds without just handing out a huge sum of money. I originally wanted to sell him stuff below cost and hand him a large lump sum to bail him out of economic troubles, but agonized a long while about how to argue that, since I was certain that would be heavy push-back. Especially as there were voices about "burning down the islands and building on the ashes" today.

I still stand by my comment about later leveraging the loan into other kinds of payments though. Having a nice big military base in the Sunset Sea would be strategically very helpful and I do think we can recoup much of the loan by having us paid back in valuable tracts of land or mines. It will be a long while before we can cash in that token, but some things are allowed to take a while to bear fruit. Especially as we do currently have the funds and I haven't seen any plans so far that would put a serious dent into our 19 million IM cash reserve. So even if he takes a full 2 million right of the bat, we wouldn't be hurting for money for anything else.
 
Azel said:
Especially as we do currently have the funds and I haven't seen any plans so far that would put a serious dent into our 19 million IM cash reserve. So even if he takes a full 2 million right of the bat, we wouldn't be hurting for money for anything else.
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I don't think you should count our extraplanar currency reserves as liquid assets. That's not something we can easily draw on, or should even touch, if we can help it.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Level 1: Blood Wind [Evocation], Nerveskitter [Transmutation], Mage Armor [Conjuration (Creation)], Shield [Abjuration], Silent Image [Illusion (Figment)], Magic of the Dragonheart [Transmutation], Amplify[SoW] [Transmutation] (9/7/day)
Level 2: Divine Insight [Divination], Scintillating Scales [Abjuration], Wings of Cover [Evocation], Elemental Dart [Conjuration (Creation)], Invisibility [Illusion (Glamer)], Mirror Image [Illusion (Figment)] (9/day)
Level 3: Fireball [Evocation], Blinding Breath [Transmutation], Dispel Magic [Abjuration], Ancestral Awakening [Transmutation], Phantom Steed [Conjuration (Creation)], Air of Nobility [Enchantment] (9/day)
Level 4: Voice of the Dragon [Transmutation], Fear [Necromancy], Resilient Sphere [Evocation], Celerity [Transmutation], Heart of Earth [Transmutation], Assay Spell Resistance [Divination], Dispelling Breath [Abjuration] (8/7/day)
Level 5: Teleport [Conjuration (Teleportation)], Firebrand [Evocation], Baleful Polymorph [Transmutation], Greater Blink [Transmutation], Necrotic Bomb [Necromancy], Mass Fire Shield [Evocation], Telekinesis [Transmutation] (8/day)
Level 6: Freezing Glance [Enchantment], Imperious Glare [Necromancy], Greater Shadow Enchantment [Illusion (Shadow)], Starmantle [Abjuration], Heal [Conjuration (Healing)] (8/day)
Level 7: Blood Wish [Universal], Greater Arcane Sight [Divination], Arcane Spellsurge [Universal], Greater Teleport [Conjuration (Teleportation)], Magic Army [Transmutation], Avasculate [Necromancy] (7/day)
Level 8: Nine Lives [Abjuration], Shadow of the Doom* [Transmutation] (4/day)

So. I had a suspicion that proved to be true, and did this little thing. We really are enthusiastic Transmuters.

By school:
Transmutation: 12
Evocation: 6
Conjuration: 6
Abjuration: 6
Necromancy: 4
Illusion: 4
Divination: 3
Universal: 2
Enchantment: 2

Quite interesting, isn't it? A surprising amount of Evocation and Abjuration, and relatively little Conjuration.
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Which begs the question if there is anything we can do that boosts Transmutation in particular. Especially as both Baleful Polymorph and Shadow of the Doom would profit from that.
 
We have over 20 mil iron marks? Holy bejeezus.

Also azels plan seems way less risky now that I know we're not beggaring ourselves to do it.

I thought we'd have like... 2.5 mil at most.
 
Goldfish said:
I don't think you should count our extraplanar currency reserves as liquid assets. That's not something we can easily draw on, or should even touch, if we can help it.
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No, we wouldn't touch the extra-planar currency. What we would touch and will touch next month is the Imperial Marks that are backed by this reserve.

When we issue coins next month, we are printing money. Namely as much money as we have in planar currency. In the books, that money actually already exists. Once we exchange existing coinage to Imperial Marks, we get all of that money in precious metals.

So the planar currency is literally money on the bank.
 
Goldfish said:
Illithid SR is high enough that just one of them would be all but invincible to an entire squad of low level mages. It could feast on their brains with impunity. Add a few Sahuagin and it would be even more of a slaughter.
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They don't have to be front line fighters of Illithid, it's kind of a weird assumption to me that they would be.
Azel said:
Hm... then no. More accurate would be:
"I didn't want the matter discussed in depth, because I did not have the time or inclination to do so, especially as there likely would be not much opposition anyway."

What I do strongly object to is the implication that I withheld information. We all here have exactly the same information available to us. What I withheld is my analysis of the information.
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Objextibf to that is of course your right but maybe better when it actually happens, I said pretty explicitly it was an omission of your reasoning. Though I do feel it would be arguing in good faith to supply that too.

Deliste said:
This seems to have had the opposite effect, also I think people would probably prefer to have anyone's full reasoning in thread rather than being mislead by omission as this sentence seems to imply.
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Deliste said:
They don't have to be front line fighters of Illithid, it's kind of a weird assumption to me that they would be.
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The assumption isn't that they would be front line fighters going after Illithids, but rather that they would be an understandably tempting target. Unable to effectively fight back, far from our realm of influence, and sporting juicy brains of above average Intelligence. They'd be dead or Dominated within the month.
 
zxzx24 said:
We have over 20 mil iron marks? Holy bejeezus.

Also azels plan seems way less risky now that I know we're not beggaring ourselves to do it.

I thought we'd have like... 2.5 mil at most.
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Here is the full accounting table on that:

       
Accounts Balance
Own Accounts
Cash 6,790,706.13 IM
Iron Bank 0.00 IM
Bank of Lys 50,000.00 IM
Treasure 37,635.00 IM
Crafting Materials 59,766.75 IM
Trade Goods 0,00 IM
Investments
Lys 200,000.00 IM
Volantis 43,750.00 IM
Currency Reserve
Silk Notes 6,000,000.00 IM
Glass Scepters 6,000,000.00 IM
Gold 0.00 IM
Imperial Mark - Book 12,000,000.00 IM
Imperial Mark - Coin 0.00 IM
Currency Issuing -12,000,000.00 IM
Total 12,000,000.00 IM
We got nearly 7 million cash right now and 12 million in Imperial Marks. The row "Currency Issuing" tracks how much money we printed and thus how much liability we have. As it stands, the whole liability is covered to 100% by our planar currency reserve, so we essentially have 12 million in book money that will be emitted next month into the wider economy in return for gold as we take old coinage out of circulation.

So we have 19 million.
 
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Goldfish said:
Too many of our enemies, Devil and Illithids in particular, are Lawful Evil, rendering them completely immune to Dictum.
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I worried about this, too, but didn't think to be sneaky and look for PF Word of Balance. Quite a nerfbat it was hit with, twice even as PF Holy Word allows saves.

I'm fine with this outcome, as I like that it makes WoB that much more special.
Goldfish said:
--[] Metabreath Feat: Shape Breath
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Dude, think about it: almost every time we use our breath, clinging would mean a ton of extra damage,

Meanwhile Shape Breath could be substituted with a number of targeted spells.
Goldfish said:
--[] 8th Level: Greater Arcane Fusion
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While it's good, and I have no problems with it, I'm trying to think of something a bit more flavorful yknow?

That Euphoric spell looked interesting.
 
Deliste said:
Objextibf to that is of course your right but maybe better when it actually happens, I said pretty explicitly it was an omission of your reasoning. Though I do feel it would be arguing in good faith to supply that too.
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Consider it the same as a CnD letter. Even though I know that you didn't mean it, your wording made it necessary to object to this statement as to not appear as if I acknowledge the implication as true.
Goldfish said:
The assumption isn't that they would be front line fighters going after Illithids, but rather that they would be an understandably tempting target. Unable to effectively fight back, far from our realm of influence, and sporting juicy brains of above average Intelligence. They'd be dead or Dominated within the month.
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I've added a strong suggestion to spend some of his funds on equipping them, especially with wands. Summon Monster IV can greatly increase their survival chances in case of Illithid ambush.

We can later either buy back the equipment or the mages do it themselves. Or he keeps it and equips other people with it. A bit of an odd arrangement, but I really didn't want to invent leasing on the spot.

Edit: Fact is though, he needs mages or everything else won't help that much. I'm open for alternate suggestions to get him some casters though.
 
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Azel said:
Which begs the question if there is anything we can do that boosts Transmutation in particular. Especially as both Baleful Polymorph and Shadow of the Doom would profit from that.
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Short of investing feats (Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, Mage's Tattoo), not really.

There are other things we can do, however, that would improve all aspects of our magic.

Create Magic Tattoo is only a 2nd level spell and its effects last 24 hours. It can be used to ink a tattoo that increases someone's caster level by +1 for 24 hours. Coincidentally, Lya knows Craft(Tattooing). :drevil:

A Ring of Arcane Might is another item we'll want to get soon, as it grants a +1 bonus to caster level.

The Spell Enhancer spell is something I want Viserys to know without having to use a PoSK. +2 caster level and +1 saving throw DC to any spell you cast after using it. I'm trying to figure out what Viserys could retrain to get this spell right now. If used in conjunction with Harmonic Chorus + Moment of Greatness, Viserys could push his caster level up to 24th after DP implements his level up. Add a Caster's Tattoo and the Ring of Arcane Might and his caster level rises to 26th. That doesn't necessarily make spells more difficult to resist, but it increases all of the other variables and makes Dispelling them extremely difficult.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Dude, think about it: almost every time we use our breath, clinging would mean a ton of extra damage,

Meanwhile Shape Breath could be substituted with a number of targeted spells.

While it's good, and I have no problems with it, I'm trying to think of something a bit more flavorful yknow?

That Euphoric spell looked interesting.
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I just think there will be more opportunities to use Shape Breath than Clinging Breath. A 50ft cone is just so indiscriminate that our options to use it are extremely limited, whereas a 100ft line, while still what amounts to a huge death beam, can be use near allies, indoors (sometimes), and from much further away. There have been so many times where I would have loved to include Viserys' breath weapon in combat, but couldn't due to the dangers of friendly fire (punny!) or collateral damage. We can use Ancestral Awakening to learn Clinging Breath should it be necessary.

I like Greater Arcane Fusion, but I'm not set on it by any means. Euphoric Tranquility is powerful, but too limited for an 8th level spell, IMO. What about Telekinetic Sphere instead? It's much more useful than the ordinary Resilient Sphere, and it's mobile. We could retrain Resilient Sphere in order to learn Spell Enhancer.

Or Greater Angelic Aspect? We could do a lot with this spell. Imagine how hard we could troll the Faith of the Seven. It's loaded with awesome effects, from Immunity to Cold (a significant weakness of Viserys'), to an aura which mimics Magic Circle Against Evil and Lesser Globe of Invulnerability. I really like this spell.
 
Goldfish said:
-[] Skills (12 points):
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Also, we are missing three skill points, so we could round off a couple things.

But seriously, Clinging > Shape when we can nuke precisely with spells of both the damaging and SoD variety.

There were many, many more times where Clinging would have been used, compared to Shape.

Also, I think I found the perfect 8th level pick: Symbol – Spell – D&D Tools

That's a spell you'd expect to get from the hoards of Great Wyrms.
 
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[X] Azel

@Goldfish, I'm still a fan of legendary proportions and am sad we're no longer getting it. I don't quite understand what the compromise is, are we buying scrolls with that spell?

Have to say I'm in favor of making our breath weapon stronger rather than more versatile. We have plenty of other options if finesse is needed, the fire breath should just be really good at killing shit.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Also, we are missing three skill points, so we could round off a couple things.

But seriously, Clinging > Shape when we can nuke precisely with spells of both the damaging and SoD variety.

There were many, many more times where Clinging would have been used, compared to Shape.

Also, I think I found the perfect 8th level pick: Symbol – Spell – D&D Tools

That's a spell you'd expect to get from the hoards of Great Wyrms.
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Fine, fine. Clinging Breath it is, but I'm swapping Greater Angelic Aspect into the 8th level spell slot.

The Symbol spell is super obsolete, dude. The 3.5 version got split up into a separate spell for each possible effect, with varying spell levels. I'd rather not try to use it, as it runs contrary to so many newer spells.
 
@TotallyNotEvil Mind if I put a +1 Craft(Tattooing) in for Viserys? He can start using Ancestral Awakening to learn Create Magic Tattoo in order to give himself and others a +1 caster level bonus.
 
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