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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Azel said:
@Goldfish, subcontracting them is utterly pointless. They are pirates in the Pkane of Fire. Everything here is either Efreeti ships or People-Who-Trade-With-Efreeti ships. They are all valid targets.

The Shaitan aren't stupid enough to pay us for a pirat doing pirate things in the middle of their enemies holdings.


Just let them team up with Bealla. A whale can't loot the ships it attacks, thanks to missing opposable thumbs. Thus she gets aid in her anti-whaling efforts and the pirates get easy marks and sone serious support. Their pay is whatever they can get their grubby hands on.

Meanwhile, they scout for valuable targets like Efreeti Nobles pleasure barges, military convoys or other fancy shit and call us when they got something. We will then haggle about the split on a case-by-case base.
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No, no. Normal pirates go for weak targets, usually only vaguely related to the Sultan's throne. We'd be paying them to go after Efreet ships and such.
And this ship should be the first of many: we should try to recruit as many as possible to handle this.
 
Azel said:
@Goldfish, subcontracting them is utterly pointless. They are pirates in the Pkane of Fire. Everything here is either Efreeti ships or People-Who-Trade-With-Efreeti ships. They are all valid targets.

The Shaitan aren't stupid enough to pay us for a pirat doing pirate things in the middle of their enemies holdings.


Just let them team up with Bealla. A whale can't loot the ships it attacks, thanks to missing opposable thumbs. Thus she gets aid in her anti-whaling efforts and the pirates get easy marks and sone serious support. Their pay is whatever they can get their grubby hands on.

Meanwhile, they scout for valuable targets like Efreeti Nobles pleasure barges, military convoys or other fancy shit and call us when they got something. We will then haggle about the split on a case-by-case base.
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Is this what it feels like when you try to convince me that some weird, overly subtle bit of diplomatic theater is the correct course of action, when I just want to set people on fire?

Because that's what it feels like, I think, with some metaphorical bashing of my head into a wall?

I honestly cannot understand how you aren't comprehending what I'm trying to explain...

:confused:
 
As for rates when teaming up, I'm perfectly happy with just the salvage right's to a turtle ship and our pay from the Shaitan. He could keep everything else, getting paid out for anything that strikes our fancy, barring truly exceptional stuff.

I want those tons upon tons of Adamantine. He can keep the sparkly stones and weaponry.
 
Azel said:
I'm not saying his rates are bad. 80% to 90% would be perfectly fair, given that they do all the work.

I'm merely dubious that the Shaitan will pay him and us for doing stuff he would be doing anyway.
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They are at war, dude. Why wouldn't they pay?

They won't give a flying fart about who is raiding the ships as long as the job gets done.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
EDIT: The job I'm quitting next week is a subcontractor. We take about 80% of the profits, and then give the other 20% to an up-chain company. Sometimes they get even less. But on the other hand all that they're giving us is the ability to rely on their brand recognition (TripAdvisor/Viator - it's a tourism business where people buy their tours and they pay us to actually provide them). And this is super common: pretty much all tourism business in France functions this way, and I'm sure other sectors do this too.
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In this case, we'd be paying them a bonus to, essentially, keep doing their jobs.

The hunt itself is already a huge profit.
 
Snowfire said:
Although I'm sure this has come up already, something to consider here is that the City of Brass apparently has the means to bring True Death to part of a captial G God. We should probably take that into account for the future.
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Isn't this the Sultan's Forge? The one that he burns and grinds souls with to make "living" brass?
 
Goldfish said:
Is this what it feels like when you try to convince me that some weird, overly subtle bit of diplomatic theater is the correct course of action, when I just want to set people on fire?

Because that's what it feels like, I think, with some metaphorical bashing of my head into a wall?

I honestly cannot understand how you aren't comprehending what I'm trying to explain...

:confused:
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Probably. My point is:
- they are not buff enough to go after Efreeti military vessels or well-guarded transports
- the Shaitan are unlikely to pay for them raiding random small-fry, which they are already doing without getting paid for it

So there is no point in subcontracting them. They are unable to render the service without our aid. But they can gather intel for us and will earn handsomely for it.
 
Goldfish said:
They are at war, dude. Why wouldn't they pay?

They won't give a flying fart about who is raiding the ships as long as the job gets done.
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The Fire pirates will already raid efreeti ships, that's why they won't pay. I would support your argument otherwise, but Azel's point it pretty huge: they are going to do it anyway.

The Shaitan won't pay us to pay a pirate to continue being a pirate.
 
Azel said:
Probably. My point is:
- they are not buff enough to go after Efreeti military vessels or well-guarded transports
- the Shaitan are unlikely to pay for them raiding random small-fry, which they are already doing without getting paid for it

So there is no point in subcontracting them. They are unable to render the service without our aid. But they can gather intel for us and will earn handsomely for it.
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They would only be raiding the ships they are capable of engaging. Not all Efreeti ships are military vessels, not all of them travel in convoys, and not all of them will be heavily defended. They're smart enough not to bite off more than they can chew.
 
Goldfish said:
So what? They're getting paid more to do their job. Yay for them. The point is that we would be getting 10% for doing absolutely nothing!
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Your plan hinges on the Shaitan being stupid.

We get paid for attacking military shipping, not random fishing vessels. Yrten can't take on military vessels by his own words.

So they are incapable of doing the job you want to hire them for.
 
Tomcost said:
The Fire pirates will already raid efreeti ships, that's why they won't pay. I would support your argument otherwise, but Azel's point it pretty huge: they are going to do it anyway.

The Shaitan won't pay us to pay a pirate to continue being a pirate.
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I give up. I'm obviously not up to the task of explaining how we could get free money for no work.

:jackiechan:
 
Just hire them to track military vessels for for for a finders fee rate of the loot. The main benefit for us is the Adamantium and the Shaitan bonus anyway. Plus I really dont want to try stiffing the Shaitan on this. Let's just offer them 15% of the loot for any Efreeti Military level vessels they find scouting and call us to hit. Heck any Fiend Vessels too. Just for us for the sacrifice value.

Goldfish said:
I give up. I'm obviously not up to the task of explaining how we could get free money for no work.

:jackiechan:
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We get it man. But the problem here is your plan hinges on our Shaitan partners being willing to pay for a subcontracted set of Pirates to hit targets that they were already going to hit. They are paying us to do this because we had no initial plans to.

But offered us a premium in the loot as enticement. Make no mistake the Shaitan wanted a defusabel asset hitting Efreeti military ships so they promised an independent polity a premium on raiding actions.
 
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Azel said:
Your plan hinges on the Shaitan being stupid.

We get paid for attacking military shipping, not random fishing vessels. Yrten can't take on military vessels by his own words.

So they are incapable of doing the job you want to hire them for.
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The Efreeti and Shaitan are at war. It is a war for their existence and freedom. The Shaitan are currently fighting off an invasion from the Plane of Fire. Fishing vessels are part of the Efreeti economy, as are small traders. The Shaitan have just as much interest in disrupting the logistics of the Efreeti empire as they do their military. Perhaps they wouldn't pay as much for a whaler as they would a military vessel, but again, so what? 10% of a small fee is still free money.

But no matter, I'm done with this subject.
 
Why do you guys all trust these random pirates we don't know anything about? It would be too easy for them to lead us into a potentially lethal trap if we let them be spotters for us on a permanent basis. For all I know they are raiding the Sultan's ships because they are servants of Ymeri and will totally turbo fuck us if they get a chance to set up such a good trap.

We already have a bunch of irons in the fire and I'd rather just cut these guys loose than enter a permanent relationship with them without a mountain of assurances.
 
Hold on are they going to be the ones mostly fighting or are they scouting for us so that we fight together because if the former then Goldfish has merit in the 90%... even if it kills me to admit it
 
Also Goldfish's 90% fee makes perfect sense to me honestly as a side note, they are going to be raiding Efreeti ships anyways so we are basically saying 'Hey you want a free bonus for all the ships you raid that you otherwise couldn't access? We can give you one.'
 
Sarasin said:
Why do you guys all trust these random pirates we don't know anything about? It would be too easy for them to lead us into a potentially lethal trap if we let them be spotters for us on a permanent basis. For all I know they are raiding the Sultan's ships because they are servants of Ymeri and will totally turbo fuck us if they get a chance to set up such a good trap.

We already have a bunch of irons in the fire and I'd rather just cut these guys loose than enter a permanent relationship with them without a mountain of assurances.
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The benefits of appropriate CR encounters. Plus the use of periodic divination for betrayal. Which they should know about now that we have Two Oracle snake gods. We are outside their weight class. Our enemies would be too. So it's best for them to just war profiteer.
 
[X] Offer Sorcerer's Deep as a new permanent residence for the Coatl much as you have done for Yss, as it will be easier to keep it safe from being hunted by devils and efreeti in the heart of our and Yss' power
--[X] Afterwards speak with Yrten and Siduri
--[X] In no particular order, try to learn the following from them;
---[X] If they are enemies of the Efreeti, where do they make port, and in what markets do they conduct business?
----[X] Try to learn enough about these locations that we could find them without assistance, if possible.
---[X] While you're at it, learn of the peoples the Efreeti have subjugated, and which ones most chafe under their tyranny.
---[X] Do they have any useful contacts they might be able to introduce us to? This wouldn't just be fences and employers, but black market traders, corrupt City of Brass officials willing to be bought, etc. We are willing to pay for good information.
---[X] Can the Golden Wind Plane Shift in some manner?
---[X] To what degree is their business tied to slaving?
---[X] Most important of all, you need information. You've already seen one neutral port which gave you the intel you needed to attack the turtle ships and even this devil's ship, but you need intel immediately up-to-date. Whatever channel of information Yrten has in place, we want him to leverage it to give us a clear view of all potential targets in the Plane of Fire. He will of course get an informant's fee for his services.
----[X] Suggest a more long-term business arrangement, with them contacting us directly if a particularly valuable target happens to show up. The share of the treasure will be negotiated on a case-by-case basis.
---[X] For now, we suggest they work with a friend of ours here in the Plane of Fire if they are out to hunter whalers or such.
---[X] Buy the Greenscale Pendant and Erynies statue for 1200 IM.
 
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@Goldfish, can we compromise on this by waiting a bit?

Let them tag along with Baella as I suggested for some easy marks and talk to the Shaitan if they pay for whalers attacked by pirates in our employ. I do not want to promise them money we might not get.

That's my only issue with your proposal. In my reading of the Shaitans intentions, you would be selling Yrten a cske that doesn't exist.
 
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