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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Less the actual contents, more in principle what drove their creation.

Edit: To expand, it's less one single situation (this one in question) and more a broader spectrum of similar incidents with votes being conducted with no truly comprehensive goal, and an implication that 'random' objects can be pushed through when they are no more than a footnote, create a part of the narrative that justifies action retroactively, and 'forces' voters to make a decision when a portion of the voters didn't really care or want anything to do with it in the first place.

If that's not comprehensive enough of an explanation, then it never will be, and we should just stop talking about it already.
 
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Crake said:
Less the actual contents, more in principle what drove their creation.

Edit: To expand, it's less one single situation (this one in question) and more a broader spectrum of similar incidents with votes being conducted with no truly comprehensive goal, and an implication that 'random' objects can be pushed through when they are no more than a footnote, create a part of the narrative that justifies action retroactively, and 'forces' voters to make a decision when a portion of the voters didn't really care or want anything to do with it in the first place.

If that's not comprehensive enough of an explanation, then it never will be, and we should just stop talking about it already.
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I don't want to force voters into anything.

I just think this is a good chance for a deal with a mage who specialises in a field none of our friends is really into.

It would be annoying to see that thrown away just to set a precedent that slipped-in tasks can be rejected.

Of course they can, but mostly they shouldn't because the original idea behind them is still valid.

So if you vote to do nothing because you genuinly don't want to work with the necro in any capacity right now do it.
But if you vote for Azel just to set a precedent, please think it over to avoid letting this opportunity slip away.
 
Artemis1992 said:
@Azel Do you see that differently?
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I generally agree with your goals, but I feel this isn't the right moment to do it and am leery of handing secrets of unknown magnitude to him and Zherys.

What if the Shadow research unlocks the ability to make Necroplitans? That would be awesome to have, but do you also want Zherys turning the entire Old Blood into immortal undead? I don't, but since we are trading mystery boxes, there is no way to tell what they will get out of this and there is a high chance that we will regret this to some degree.

Artemis1992 said:
I don't want to force voters into anything.

I just think this is a good chance for a deal with a mage who specialises in a field none of our friends is really into.

It would be annoying to see that thrown away just to set a precedent that slipped-in tasks can be rejected.

Of course they can, but mostly they shouldn't because the original idea behind them is still valid.

So if you vote to do nothing because you genuinly don't want to work with the necro in any capacity right now do it.
But if you vote for Azel just to set a precedent, please think it over to avoid letting this opportunity slip away.
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My full agreement.

I still don't want to make a deal, but as long as I am allowed to vote for this, I'm fine with whatever the majority wants.
 
I would say that when in the position of power but not an insermountable position making uninformed trades has too high a chance for negative unintended consequences. There is nothing this necromancer can provide us that we can not get elsewhere with minimal risk. Also just saying he seems way too stereotypical necromancery for me to trust him to not do some crazy evil stuff with anything we'd give him even if he wasn't working directly against our interests while doing so.
 
Sarasin said:
I would say that when in the position of power but not an insermountable position making uninformed trades has too high a chance for negative unintended consequences. There is nothing this necromancer can provide us that we can not get elsewhere with minimal risk. Also just saying he seems way too stereotypical necromancery for me to trust him to not do some crazy evil stuff with anything we'd give him even if he wasn't working directly against our interests while doing so.
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Good necromancers are basically impossible by DP's metaphysics, so I'll take a cautious and stable one any time.

Our only other chance for getting a decent necro in our service is if Wylla decides to work for us, rather than rule her own realm.
 
Deliste said:
Well to know if it would work, you'd have to know what it was, but I might be misunderstanding you. I think you can be confident that DP is being consistent in it's application.
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What I mean is I want to know what kinds of magic items the spell does not work on. A ritual is not a black box, and our characters, especially Lya, should be able to look at it and see that--for example--the ritual does not work at all on intelligent items or artifacts. Or that it offers an intelligent item a will save. Or whatever. Right now it seems to be a vague "it works unless it doesn't," which doesn't tell us anything.
 
*sigh*

Can we just let this go? Honestly I think the point has gotten across not just to the playerbase, but to me as well. I will make sure to ask for clarification from now on.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Aug 10, 2018 at 3:16 AM, finished with 272 posts and 26 votes.
  • [X] Plan Getting On With It
    -[X] Necromancer
    --[X] On a second thought, this is a bad idea. Let's make this a polite social call and just be on our way.
    --[X] Have some small-talk with the Necromancer about magical research, then thank him for his time and guestfriendship before being on your way.
    -[X] Have some small-talk with the High Priest about his faith and it's relation to other beliefs, like the Old Gods or Burny. Then talk with Meraxas directly about the vision you had about the meeting of the 14 and their plans.
    [X] Plan TNE
    -[X] Stranger Danger
    --[X] Offer to let him study a unique shadow you've caught, as long as he shares the results of course.
    -[x] Meraxes
    --[X] Have some small-talk with the High Priest about his faith and it's relation to other beliefs, like the Old Gods or Burny. Then talk with Meraxas directly about the vision you had about the meeting of the 14 and their plans.
    [X] Abstain
    -[X] To the Necromancer
    -[X] Ask how his own studies have progressed, you are excited by the prospect of more magical trade between Volantis and your own realm, and wish to know not only about what he has to offer, but to hear about any exciting discovery for the betterment of mankind.
    -[X] Mention that you found yourself as Liege for a very special being, tell him about Amrelath and his desire to return to flesh, you would allow him to study him (with the proper respect, he is a dragon after all) in exchange for his insight and help.
    -[X] To sweeten the pot, you can also provide access to certain necromantic objects and texts, should he also do the same. (The corpse cage, some not too important tomes for now).
    -[X] To Meraxes
    -[X] Thank the priest for his time, but some of the things we need to discuss are too important to risk anyone hearing, you need to speak to his Godess directly.
    -[X] If she doen't manifest an avatar or something, have Dany commune with the echo.
    [X] Plan TNE
    -[X] Stranger Danger
    --[X] Offer to let him study a unique shadow you've caught, as long as he shares the results of course.
    -[X] First Spear of Meraxes
    --[X] Politely ask if you could speak with his lady directly, for you had much you wished to converse with her on.
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spiritualatheist said:
What I mean is I want to know what kinds of magic items the spell does not work on. A ritual is not a black box, and our characters, especially Lya, should be able to look at it and see that--for example--the ritual does not work at all on intelligent items or artifacts. Or that it offers an intelligent item a will save. Or whatever. Right now it seems to be a vague "it works unless it doesn't," which doesn't tell us anything.
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Ok sure but they may only be able to build up a list, there's no reason to assume we have perfect knowledge and if something can for example entirely hide it's aura as far as the ritual is concerned it's a normal item and how would we know otherwise ourselves but through context or assumption like with the staff, it moved and was found with other magic so we know it is but if it had stayed still and was found at a flea market arguably it could just be an eccentric design.

If you want "Ritual didn't work therefore it must be an A, B or C" well I'm not sure we will or should get that.
 
I didn't vote for either out of concern we didn't sufficiently plan for the Meraxes action but seeing as off the top of my head I don't have much suggestion to do so outside of things I dislike e.g. Legend Lore,

For DPs sake and because I still don't trust the Necro

[X] Azel
 
DragonParadox said:
Moved the research section off the Assets and Contacts post to make it easier to edit and read.
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Many hugs DP, and as for this segment:

DragonParadox said:
Shade of the Evening

Description: This cloudy bluish liquid is viscous, flowing like honey. You swear you can almost glimpse shapes in the swirling shades in the depths of the crystalline bottle.

Ability: ???

Aura: Faint Divination
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We no longer have this. We used it to lure the Lich in Lys and the bottle was emptied.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Good necromancers are basically impossible by DP's metaphysics, so I'll take a cautious and stable one any time.

Our only other chance for getting a decent necro in our service is if Wylla decides to work for us, rather than rule her own realm.
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Ehhh we don't really know if hes that "cautious and stable." I mean from what we know of Zherys, man probably wouldn't want someone completely bug fuck running around going full Menagle, but that's based on our assumptions about Zherys and not what we know of the dude personally. Considering how reluctant we were to let Yss and that few shadoweaver into our Tower, I personally was surprised at the sudden "Free Access!" policy. Part of it is that the tower kind a has to be more accessible now to function as a school with guest lecturers but ehhhhh
 
Artemis1992 said:
Good necromancers are basically impossible by DP's metaphysics, so I'll take a cautious and stable one any time.

Our only other chance for getting a decent necro in our service is if Wylla decides to work for us, rather than rule her own realm.
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Yeah but we are also doing the whole 'conquer the entire planet' thing so there is no kingdom for her to go off to rule without being subject to is. Unless she leaves the prime material that is but carving out her own kingdom elsewhere is incredibly dubious at best, most places worth ruling have been taken but other beings of ridiculous power already. Also if we are going to deal with a necromancer I still trust Wyla way way more than this guy and would prefer that option. Wyla route has much higher potential rewards, or so it seems to me anyway.
 
You're talking to someone who'd rather the world be a map gore affair of dozens of tiny fiefdoms ruled by high CR individuals, rather than have any single strong central authority.
 
It's great having Big E amounts of personal power and still being able to do fuck-all to bring sanity to the geopolitical sphere around you, I'm sure. If we had decided to fort up in a flying palace in the Plane of Air rather than sail south to the Stepstones, I might be more supportive of such nonsense.

But alas... Planetos must be conquered.
 
Crake said:
But alas... Planetos must be conquered.
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I'd be perfectly happy with making the best country instead of the biggest one, while running some sort of United Nations on the side.
The bigger we get, so will our obligations/the plates we're spinning increase, making things OOC move even more at a crawl.

I mean I am content to wait till "too many side projects"/"things moving to slow" becomes a more widely felt frustration, but I believe that "conquer everything" is a key malaise to that problem.
 
My goal was Westeros + Essos up to the Bone Mountains and colonies in Sothoryos.

Which for all intents and purposes has gotta be the largest continuous empire in the known world. Take Qarth, and we control trade itself.

Oh I can't wait for the gold to flow into our coffers. So much gold. We'll make Netheril look like school boys with our mighty works.
 
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