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Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization

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Citino said:
Yenya not understanding the military and where are people are coming from is more likely to be a long-term disaster though.
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This does not seem to be a likely outcome we have been told that

"Yenyna has a broad set of strong points and she would do well at any of the institutions suggested. She would probably enjoy the archaeology the most"

The fact that she has a broad set of strong points seems to suggest that she would understand the military and all the other things the other options teach at least at a general level no matter which option we pick.

And even if it was the case that if she doesnt go to the military axademy she wouldn't understand the military that would also mean if she doesnt go the redshore, the science or archeology academies then she wont understand politics, science, and history
Ans what use is military connections if she doesnt have the political skill to use them
(I'm not sure that this is the arguement your making but it was a major point in your last post so im commenting on it)
 
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Warning: JUST AN ADVISORY
  • Staff Post
    • loserthree said:
    You are wrong about the last game. You overestimate the merits of your feelings. And you can go pound sand.

    Let the creator work this out with the constructive contributors and leave the grandstanding to other, better dramatic sorts.
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    just an advisory This is just on the edge of rudeness requiring us to take official notice. I know the next couple votes will be contentious. Let's avoid this line.
     
  • Staff Post
    • [X] [Science] Collaborate with extra funding (-1 temp SoL, boost Science research, Kielmyr gain significant information on Spectroscopy, significantly boost chemistry knowledge for both groups, small chance of metalight knowledge leaking)
    [X] [Yenyna] University of Redshore - As the inheritor to a most political position, perhaps being at the forefront of political thought and discussion would be valuable
     
    sam5447 said:
    This does not seem to be a likely outcome we have been told that
    "Yenyna has a broad set of strong points and she would do well at any of the institutions suggested. She would probably enjoy the archaeology the most"
    The fact that she has a broad set of strong points seems to suggest that she would not understand the military.
    And even if this were the case it would mean if she did go to the military academy she wpuldnt understand politics
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    She will do quite well at anything.

    However, there is a serious difference between experiencing something, and just being capable in that field.

    Yenya, even without going to the military academy, will not make horribly stupid mistakes when it comes to war. Nor will she ask for the impossible of her generals. Same if she does not go to the political academy. She will be able to understand new political ideas as they are presented to her, and she won't do something idiotic just because she didn't learn from the best.

    However, without being able to experience what a military life is like, she will not truly be able to understand the mindset of the military's culture. What a soldier does every day is one thing to hear about in a theoretical class, about the theoretical soldier who theoretically serves the Empire.

    It's another to actually take command of a unit, lead those men, and actually see how the soldiers and officers live on a day to day basis.

    Furthermore, the act of joining the military will be an excellent symbol of national unity. "Even the Empress is not exempt from the duty to the nation" is something that we very much want to cultivate, since it gives the idea that even our ruling class is in many ways similar to the common man, and truly cares for the same things they do.

    Edit: I'll also note that taking just that one sentence is pulling it quite out of context. My basic argument wasn't that she couldn't into military, it was that she wouldn't understand the people in the military as well as she needs to, considering the needs of our militant nation.
     
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    I just picked Military because the combination between steel, trees and military women reminds me of the Stones on Dandriss and I miss them ;_;

    Also @Citino, why do you keep calling her Yenya? Her name is Yenyna >:U
     
    [X] [Yenyna] Royal Military Academy - While somewhat unorthodox, as the Haddyth she shall be the leader of armies, so full training now would be most appropriate.
    [X] [Science] Collaborate with extra funding (-1 temp SoL, boost Science research, Kielmyr gain significant information on Spectroscopy, significantly boost chemistry knowledge for both groups, small chance of metalight knowledge leaking)
     
    Citino said:
    She will do quite well at anything.

    However, there is a serious difference between experiencing something, and just being capable in that field.

    Yenya, even without going to the military academy, will not make horribly stupid mistakes when it comes to war. Nor will she ask for the impossible of her generals. Same if she does not go to the political academy. She will be able to understand new political ideas as they are presented to her, and she won't do something idiotic just because she didn't learn from the best.

    However, without being able to experience what a military life is like, she will not truly be able to understand the mindset of the military's culture. What a soldier does every day is one thing to hear about in a theoretical class, about the theoretical soldier who theoretically serves the Empire.

    It's another to actually take command of a unit, lead those men, and actually see how the soldiers and officers live on a day to day basis.

    Furthermore, the act of joining the military will be an excellent symbol of national unity. "Even the Empress is not exempt from the duty to the nation" is something that we very much want to cultivate, since it gives the idea that even our ruling class is in many ways similar to the common man, and truly cares for the same things they do.

    Edit: I'll also note that taking just that one sentence is pulling it quite out of context. My basic argument wasn't that she couldn't into military, it was that she wouldn't understand the people in the military as well as she needs to, considering the needs of our militant nation.
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    Noting Nokly has no formal martial education either.
     
    veekie said:
    Noting Nokly has no formal martial education either.
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    Nokly was noted to be quite invested in his early martial training, as it was one of the few things he felt that the praise he got was earned.

    Also, Nokly is a pretty bad example, because iirc, he was younger or about the same age Yenya is now when he became Haddyth. And he also struggled massively in many areas in his early reign because of his lack of training.

    Not to mention the first war he got was a glorified slap fight that made him look good because the Khem went and knocked out the Vortuga fleet.

    Unless Yenyna can also pull out short, victorious war out of her poofy dress right at the start of her reign, it's quite likely that her rep is going to be significantly weaker without being reinforced in some way.
     
    Nokly was about 24 when he became Haddyth, Yenyna is currently 19.

    Also, Nokly did serve a stint as an officer between ages 19 and 22. He sort of enjoyed military matters because he felt he got honest praise, but he was honestly never very good at them. Passable, but he never got actual combat experience before he became Haddyth, and during the wars he mostly had to leave things up to the generals because his ministers didn't want to risk him, so he basically has minimal military experience.

    Yenyna is a good shot and has some basic understanding of military matters right now, but isn't too terribly interested in them on their own merits, but from a political perspective she sees the appeal of attending the military academy and gaining experience there. She would of course be chaperoned, and Valdem is an officer in his own right from the Kielmyr, so they would attend together.
     
    [X] [Yenyna] Royal Military Academy - While somewhat unorthodox, as the Haddyth she shall be the leader of armies, so full training now would be most appropriate
    [X] [Yenyna] Royal Museum of Antiquities - This exciting new field of old things is both prestigious and sufficiently traditional to be a good fit for royalty
    [X] [Science] Collaborate with extra funding (-1 temp SoL, boost Science research, Kielmyr gain significant information on Spectroscopy, significantly boost chemistry knowledge for both groups, small chance of metalight knowledge leaking)
     
    To be honest I don't know why people keep on voting for more military when we should just you know try to keep the peace with diplomacy because having Yenyna graduate from Redshore would help to temper the insane ideas of this very thread of harping for the military where they are using as the most boring hammer that ever existed. I want Yenya's age to be of peace and prosperity to use a silk glove in handling international affairs than the barbaric mailed fist during Nokly's turbulent reign. With our new theory of empire we need to be loved and feared but mostly to be their patron in the creation of a new world order that puts the Dual Monarchy as first among the equals not only to the Great powers but also the world. Everything must be for our benefit and we will not need the soldier but the diplomat and trader to flourish the empire.
     
    [X] [Yenyna] Royal Museum of Antiquities - This exciting new field of old things is both prestigious and sufficiently traditional to be a good fit for royalty
    [X] [Science] Collaborate with extra funding (-1 temp SoL, boost Science research, Kielmyr gain significant information on Spectroscopy, significantly boost chemistry knowledge for both groups, small chance of metalight knowledge leaking)
     
    ALanos said:
    To be honest I don't know why people keep on voting for more military when we should just you know try to keep the peace with diplomacy because having Yenyna graduate from Redshore would help to temper the insane ideas of this very thread of harping for the military where they are using as the most boring hammer that ever existed. I want Yenya's age to be of peace and prosperity to use a silk glove in handling international affairs than the barbaric mailed fist during Nokly's turbulent reign. With our new theory of empire we need to be loved and feared but mostly to be their patron in the creation of a new world order that puts the Dual Monarchy as first among the equals not only to the Great powers but also the world. Everything must be for our benefit and we will not need the soldier but the diplomat and trader to flourish the empire.
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    I get the impression that people are voting milliatary for women's rights
     
    Ada goes to science and meets Babbage and they invent the computer and use it to do science to stuff. This is a categorical imperative. Do not attempt to defy it.
     
    ALanos said:
    To be honest I don't know why people keep on voting for more military when we should just you know try to keep the peace with diplomacy because having Yenyna graduate from Redshore would help to temper the insane ideas of this very thread of harping for the military where they are using as the most boring hammer that ever existed. I want Yenya's age to be of peace and prosperity to use a silk glove in handling international affairs than the barbaric mailed fist during Nokly's turbulent reign. With our new theory of empire we need to be loved and feared but mostly to be their patron in the creation of a new world order that puts the Dual Monarchy as first among the equals not only to the Great powers but also the world. Everything must be for our benefit and we will not need the soldier but the diplomat and trader to flourish the empire.
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    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    It's a pretty thought to think that her reign will be peaceful if we attempt to be peaceful, but in this age of empires, do you really think that is likely? Maybe if we were an island like the Sketch, we could attempt that, but the world around us will remain turbulent, and again and again we will be drawn into wars to ensure our own peace.

    However, the important point is not that we avoid wars, it is that we avoid wars within our own land. That is the true way to gain peace, and in many ways we have already built the foundations for that peace. Not one nation around us other than distant Nohon has any interest in our lands. It is in their lands and the lands beyond them that we will find ourselves fighting our wars.

    And most important is the fact that serving in the military is an important tool for Yenyna. It gives her so many options that will otherwise be denied to us. Female service in the military possibly starts to gain traction, Yenyna gains contacts amongst the military, and the training to understand what, exactly, she needs in a general. She also gains the ability to be able to appeal to the common man with her military connections.

    Going into the military isn't just us pounding at the military button more. It's about letting Yenyna use our biggest advantages to her own ends.
     
    [X] [Science] Collaboration would be useful (Kielmyr gain information on Spectroscopy, boost chemistry knowledge for both groups, tiny chance of metalight knowledge leaking)

    [X] [Yenyna] University of Redshore - As the inheritor to a most political position, perhaps being at the forefront of political thought and discussion would be valuable

    Okay I don't know why but my vote isn't being counted in the tally properly, I'm going to repost it here in hopes that it fixes it.​
    Adhoc vote count started by masterofmadness on Jun 25, 2018 at 12:34 AM, finished with 24092 posts and 85 votes.
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    masterofmadness said:
    [X] [Science] Collaboration would be useful (Kielmyr gain information on Spectroscopy, boost chemistry knowledge for both groups, tiny chance of metalight knowledge leaking)

    [X] [Yenyna] University of Redshore - As the inheritor to a most political position, perhaps being at the forefront of political thought and discussion would be valuable

    Okay I don't know why but my vote isn't being counted in the tally properly, I'm going to repost it here in hopes that it fixes it.    ​
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    Pretty sure it's because you weren't using the default font.

    Edit: Hm, maybe not? Guess it just doesn't like you?
     
    You lot have tossed away oodles of resources chasing the metalight KoolAid, but you are actually going to pass up the chance to get computers a whole century before anybody else?
     
    ALanos said:
    It is not the military where rights are equal but education that would serve the state would be better than wasting more bodies when we are not at total war.
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    No, it's military service, the first women to vote where Canadian nurses who served on the front, and because of that got the right to vote, because you know... they were combat nurses, so they served, and anyone who serves, gets the right to vote.
     
    Citino said:
    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    It's a pretty thought to think that her reign will be peaceful if we attempt to be peaceful, but in this age of empires, do you really think that is likely? Maybe if we were an island like the Sketch, we could attempt that, but the world around us will remain turbulent, and again and again we will be drawn into wars to ensure our own peace.

    However, the important point is not that we avoid wars, it is that we avoid wars within our own land. That is the true way to gain peace, and in many ways we have already built the foundations for that peace. Not one nation around us other than distant Nohon has any interest in our lands. It is in their lands and the lands beyond them that we will find ourselves fighting our wars.

    And most important is the fact that serving in the military is an important tool for Yenyna. It gives her so many options that will otherwise be denied to us. Female service in the military possibly starts to gain traction, Yenyna gains contacts amongst the military, and the training to understand what, exactly, she needs in a general. She also gains the ability to be able to appeal to the common man with her military connections.

    Going into the military isn't just us pounding at the military button more. It's about letting Yenyna use our biggest advantages to her own ends.
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    Women will never meet the requirements unless we have genetic tampering the only jobs they will have are either clerical or medicinal as nurses. The only way to prevent war in our borders is to use the question of Greater Khemetri to be conquered and civilising them to get them off our backs. There is also the problem that we keep on warring on the continent recently and not the periphery like what good empires do.
     
    Citino said:
    Not sure if you don't know how you are doing it, and I might be wrong.

    My suggestion would be to drop the vote for Science and try doing just the Yenyna vote to see if it stacks or not. Worst comes to worse, that way you can just manually tally it into the vote.
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    Okay, thanks for trying to help BTW very much appreciated.

    [X] [Yenyna] University of Redshore - As the inheritor to a most political position, perhaps being at the forefront of political thought and discussion would be valuable


    Edit: Okay checked again and it still isn't counting, so I guess it doesn't stack?
    Edit2: Okay I 'm going to try copying the vote from the tally and see if that works.
    Edit3: Holy shit! finally!... does that mean that it was the font?    ​
    Adhoc vote count started by masterofmadness on Jun 25, 2018 at 12:44 AM, finished with 24099 posts and 85 votes.
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    Adhoc vote count started by masterofmadness on Jun 25, 2018 at 12:50 AM, finished with 24101 posts and 85 votes.
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    ALanos said:
    Women will never meet the requirements unless we have genetic tampering the only jobs they will have are either clerical or medicinal as nurses. The only way to prevent war in our borders is to use the question of Greater Khemetri to be conquered and civilising them to get them off our backs. There is also the problem that we keep on warring on the continent recently and not the periphery like what good empires do.
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    ...Genetic tampering like, say, Metalight?

    The thing that turned Yenyna into a 7'1" giantess? And which we know has a tech called 'Metalight Training', which exposes our people to metagreen during military service?

    Also, what? You do realize we haven't fought a war in our borders since Faron, right? That's literally because we've intervened in any fire that might spread into us, and have kept allies strong enough and friendly to us on our borders to keep the fire outside our borders.

    Our strategy has prevented the massive damage that western and central Syffryn have suffered repeatedly.
     
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