Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization

Academia Nut said:

Kielmyr - In association with the Sketch, the Kielmyr have begun construction of a naval facility specifically intended for the outfitting of ships with steam engines and motive drives.

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10ebbor10 said:

I haven't seen much discussion of this, but it's an important thing. Sketch and Kielmyr are working hard together on steamships.

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Sivantic said:

Finally figured what was bothering me



All of that?

That was supposed to happen. It was a feature, not a bug.

The six Political Will that the parties have are supposed to go first and they are supposedly to be self-serving and potentially obnoxious.

It is supposed to be a mess. It was in fact meant to be a horse-trading simulator after all. Both between the parties and the players and between the parties themselves.

All I see here are bandwagons.

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Random Member said:

People complained about the new faction system being too inefficient, but now we've moved too far in the opposite direction, eh?

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keenscythe said:

[X] Just Ploughing Along

[X][Research1] Organic Chemistry (10/40-50?) AND Inorganic Chemistry (17/40-50?) [Science][Chemistry][Open]
-[X][Research1] Organic First
[X] [Kiel] Yes, please (-1 SoL while Five Crowns active (Kale-Yllthon line under construction or have not natively developed Steel Railroad), founds Rail Company)
[X][Research2] Breechloading Cannon (0/???) [Military][Weaponry][Open]
[X] [BS] Containment (Gives time for attempts at diplomacy and mobilization, increases risk to lowlands, gives time for the rebels to organize

I don't go on discord, and the party leaders need a better argument for me to support them than "Wah not giving us all the PW we want will mess up our perfect gemlike plans" especially since other parties can also take actions we need.

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Xepheria said:

OOC Justification:

This plan does several key things that we want. Most notably, the diplomatic and espionage core brings us to 10(12) Trust and 10(10) Espionage, which allows us to immediately used the evolved trust actions starting from the coming executive turn – couple this with the reduced PW costs for DOs in the future, and this represents a massive jump in our diplomatic capabilities. Narratively, we're throwing our full diplomatic weight behind resolving the Black Sheep situation as swiftly and bloodlessly as possible, whilst increasing the scope and breadth of our espionage networks, in the Sketch and their territories (like the HEKC and Canada), and the Hespranxer. The disruption of the Sketch-Hesp alliance is critical to our national security.

With regards to the Hung espionage mission, we have the Emperor's permission to start weeding out dysfunctional elements of the bureaucracy, which was deemed more time critical than an espionage mission to the HEKC for example (which is still getting attention in the form of espionage networks) – the nature of these capitalistic, exploitative companies means that we can kick it over at our leisure (though preferably launching the espionage mission in the next executive turn).

The non-diplomatic portions of the bill hit several critical areas – industry, rail companies, SoL and sewers. Balancing the effects of SoL, Pollution and consciousness this turn was particularly tricky, and the current iteration does as much as possible whilst still leaving our happiness in a respectable state. Both the sewer and the two bonds are necessary to not drop happiness to an unacceptable 6(2) – in the choice between rails and sewers, which are mechanically equivalent for these purposes, it was decided that the narrative benefits of sewers would be greater, and help alleviate some of the growing stresses in the urban population. The railway company was chosen to go to Kus, and thus the Black Sheep, as an economical initiative to back up our diplomacy in that area, both making it easier for farmers in the lowlands to connect their goods to the core (and the wider world trade network), and bring in military reinforcements to the area if need be.

The support military research action in the royalist plan is to immediately finish steamships, so we can hopefully slot in ironclads next phase, whilst also getting some good progress into breechloading cannons this turn, which are critical to counter enemy ironclads

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Citino said:

Honest question here Siv, but have you actually talked to the other faction leaders?

From what I understand, the faction leaders are supposed to be talking to each other, covering each other to get what they want. In this case, Manus builds a sewer to let Corn and Xeph do their plans, but he also uses the temp IC that Corn is generating to raise SoL to prepare for an education raising action, and from there to get a hospital.

Just because he's not rushing the Hospital this turn doesn't mean that he isn't doing what he needs to.

From what the other factions leaders mentioned, they very much do do horse trading. Corn said that he got Xeph to back down on going overboard on bonds by threatening to veto them, and Xeph then adjusted his plan.

The horse trading and chaos is happening, but its happening in the back rooms, just like irl politics.

Edit: Walrus Ninja

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Xepheria said:

I physically recoil at the idea of planning over a thread. Far too many iterations and revisions of plans to keep up with, and other people are used as a rapid fire sounding board, which is where the instant messaging and voice features of discord are supremely useful.

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Citino said:

Ok.

That work? Several hundred words explaining what they plan to do and get with their plan enough?

Seriously, they posted their explanations, both IC and OOC for what they are doing in thread. You don't need to be on discord to see what they are doing.

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Citino said:

Ok.

That work? Several hundred words explaining what they plan to do and get with their plan enough?

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Sivantic said:

I have been following the thread, but all I usually see is the final product and really, what is there to talk about? I literally have no Political Will to work with.

There is nothing I can do to convince them to listen without it.

The talking and covering for each other? That is supposed to happen after the six Political Will are used for the Primary Objective.

Sometimes, we the voters will find it inconvenient and sometimes even counterproductive. Again, feature, not a bug.

This is when we are supposed to use Political Will against them to stop it.

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Sivantic said:

Missing the point there

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keenscythe said:

Wah not giving us all the PW we want will mess up our perfect gemlike plans

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keenscythe said:

Not really, at best that justifies the royalist party. Why should the conservatives (for example) get PW to build a sewer instead of the Urban Worker party?
Because it was decided on Discord? Because the Conservatives are more powerful and thus we should continue this feedback loop of continuing our oligarchy?

Complaining about the urban parties lack of power as a reason to not invest PW sounds incredibly petty from the big 3 who already have power and thus are entirely self-interested in shutting the other factions out. I'd rather not have the urban workers and the rural citizens rise up in revolt because our entire political structure is based keeping them shut down and voiceless unless they rabble rouse enough for it to be given to them just to prevent tearing the DC apart.

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Xepheria said:

---

Salutations, my dear friends! I hope I find you all in excellent health!

It has been a momentous few years. We, the People, have experienced unrivalled prosperity under the new parliament, whilst the rest of the world looks on at our example. Now mostly recovered from the disastrous global financial crash of 1840, other nations are getting back on their feet, and the outlook is good! On behalf of the Royalist party, and my colleagues and co-workers in the Conservatives and Liberals, I come before you today to present the 'Dual Crown Infrastructure and Security Bill', which aims to address the urgent matters facing our nation.

The core royalist agenda is to address the building tensions within our stalwart ally, the Black Sheep, who find themselves at the precipice of civil war, and to continue the major restructuring and rearmament of our glorious armed forces. Let it never be said that the Dual Crown withholds support from its allies in times of need, nor hesitates to provide nothing but the very best equipment and training for our brave soldiers!

With further investment, we shall implement additional security funding and military grants to help protect our territories from those who would wish to do our people harm!

Glory to the Dual Crown! Long live the Haddyth!

• Prime Minister Xyphyra Fyrrl

---

Core Plan:

Diplomatic Outreach -1 PW: +1 Bond, +2 Temp Trust (BS Emperor)
Diplomatic Outreach -1 PW: +1 Bond, +2 Temp Trust (BS Rebels)
Diplomatic Outreach 2 PW: +1 Trust, -1 Temp Trust (Black Sheep Peace)
Sell Obsolete Military Equipment -0 PW: Requires buyer, -4 temp Armies, +1 Rearm progress

With a further investment of 5PW:

Increase Armies - 1PW: Temp Increases Armies by 3, -2 Temp IC
Build Espionage Network -2 PW: +1 Espionage, -1 Trust (Hespranxer)
Support Military Research - 1 PW: -1 temp IC, +1 temp Militancy, boosts Military type research
Launch Espionage Mission (Pesky Hung Bureaucracy) - 1 PW

Spoiler: Full Parliamentary Plan, with stats changes iterated and OOC justification

Royalists

Diplomatic Outreach -1 PW: +1 Bond, +2 Temp Trust (BS Emperor)
Diplomatic Outreach -1 PW: +1 Bond, +2 Temp Trust (BS Rebels)
Diplomatic Outreach 2 PW: +1 Trust, -1 Temp Trust (Black Sheep Peace)
Increase Armies - 1PW: Temp Increases Armies by 3, -2 Temp IC
Sell Obsolete Military Equipment -0 PW: Requires buyer, -4 temp Armies, +1 Rearm progress
Build Espionage Network -2 PW: +1 Espionage, -1 Trust (Hespranxer)
Support Military Research - 1 PW: -1 temp IC, +1 temp Militancy, boosts Military type research
Launch Espionage Mission (Pesky Hung Bureaucracy) - 1 PW

Conservatives

Improve Standard of Living - 2PW + Innovation >10: Increases SoL by 1, -2 Infrastructural Temp IC, -1 Temp IC
Improve Standard of Living - 2PW + Innovation >10: Increases SoL by 1, -2 Infrastructural Temp IC, -1 Temp IC
Construct Sewer - 1 PW: -4 temp IC, +1 Sewer

Liberals

Rapid Develop Industry - 1 PW + Innovation 10+: +2 IC and Active Development, +1 Pollution, -2 Temp IC, +2 Infrastructural Temp IC
Rapid Develop Industry - 1 PW + Innovation 10+: +2 IC and Active Development, +1 Pollution, -2 Temp IC, +2 Infrastructural Temp IC
Build Espionage Network -2 PW + >10 Trust: +1 Espionage, -1 Trust (The Sketch Problem)
Found Valleyhome-Kus Railway Company - 1 PW, -2 IC
Sell Crown Corporation (7/14) - 0 PW

Projected actions this turn:

[] [Kiel] Yes, please (-1 SoL while Five Crowns active (Kale-Yllthon line under construction or have not natively developed Steel Railroad), founds Rail Company)
[] [BS] Containment (Gives time for attempts at diplomacy and mobilization, increases risk to lowlands, gives time for the rebels to organize)
[][Research1] Organic Chemistry (10/40-50?) AND Inorganic Chemistry (17/40-50?) [Science][Chemistry][Open]
-[][Research1] Organic First

[][Research2] Breechloading Cannon (0/???) [Military][Weaponry][Open]


Raw stat changes -19 PW spent

Rail companies: -2 IC, -1 SoL
DOs: +2 Bonds, +3 Temp Trust, +1 Trust
Espio: +2 Espionage, -2 Trust
SoL: +2 SoL, -4 Infrastructural Temp IC, -2 Temp IC
Armies: +3 Temp Armies, -2 Temp IC
RDI: +4 IC, +2 Pollution, -4 Temp IC, +4 Infrastructural Temp IC
Sell Guns: -4 Temp Armies, +1 Rearm
Sell CC: +1 Temp SoL, -1 Crown Corp
Research: -1 Temp IC, +1 Temp Militancy
Sewers: -4 Temp IC, +1 Sewers (-1 Pollution)

Raw Totals:

+1 Temp SoL, +1 SoL, +3 Temp Trust, -1 Trust, +2 Espionage, +2 IC, -13 Temp IC, -1 Temp Armies, +1 Rearm, -1 CC, +1 Sewers, +1 Pollution, +1 Temp Militancy


Stats after plan and stat iteration:

Econ
Industrial Cap 13 (13) (Max. 11+75%) -> 15 (7)
Development 36/56+25% -> 38/56
Bonds 8 -> 10
Pollution 3 (5) –> 4 (8)

Infrastructure
Railroads 3/7
Sewers 0/7 -> 1/7
Hospitals 0/3

Culture
Consciousness 4 (16) –> 4(14)
Standard of Living 7 (17) -> 8 (14)
Happiness 6 (6)/10 -> 6 (5)

Research
Academies 5/5
Mil Academies 2/2
Education 4
Innovation 7 (15) -> 7(14)

Diplomacy
Trust 11 (8) -> 10 (10)
Espionage 8 (8) -> 10 (10)

Martial
Militancy 6
Armies 8 (4) [2/8 Rearm] -> 8 (5) [3/8 Rearm]
Navies 6 (5)

Political Will 12/20 -> 0/20



OOC Justification:

This plan does several key things that we want. Most notably, the diplomatic and espionage core brings us to 10(12) Trust and 10(10) Espionage, which allows us to immediately used the evolved trust actions starting from the coming executive turn – couple this with the reduced PW costs for DOs in the future, and this represents a massive jump in our diplomatic capabilities. Narratively, we're throwing our full diplomatic weight behind resolving the Black Sheep situation as swiftly and bloodlessly as possible, whilst increasing the scope and breadth of our espionage networks, in the Sketch and their territories (like the HEKC and Canada), and the Hespranxer. The disruption of the Sketch-Hesp alliance is critical to our national security.

With regards to the Hung espionage mission, we have the Emperor's permission to start weeding out dysfunctional elements of the bureaucracy, which was deemed more time critical than an espionage mission to the HEKC for example (which is still getting attention in the form of espionage networks) – the nature of these capitalistic, exploitative companies means that we can kick it over at our leisure (though preferably launching the espionage mission in the next executive turn).

The non-diplomatic portions of the bill hit several critical areas – industry, rail companies, SoL and sewers. Balancing the effects of SoL, Pollution and consciousness this turn was particularly tricky, and the current iteration does as much as possible whilst still leaving our happiness in a respectable state. Both the sewer and the two bonds are necessary to not drop happiness to an unacceptable 6(2) – in the choice between rails and sewers, which are mechanically equivalent for these purposes, it was decided that the narrative benefits of sewers would be greater, and help alleviate some of the growing stresses in the urban population. The railway company was chosen to go to Kus, and thus the Black Sheep, as an economical initiative to back up our diplomacy in that area, both making it easier for farmers in the lowlands to connect their goods to the core (and the wider world trade network), and bring in military reinforcements to the area if need be.

The support military research action in the royalist plan is to immediately finish steamships, so we can hopefully slot in ironclads next phase, whilst also getting some good progress into breechloading cannons this turn, which are critical to counter enemy ironclads.

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Cornuthaum said:

An Address to Parliament
by the rt. hon. Hynryk Cornythyn, Lord Petyrburg​

Friends, People, Countrymen!
Once again Parliamentary negotiations draw to a close and the Liberal Party of our great and beautiful country is able to report our great successes! Indeed we have steered clear of the dangers of populist sentiment and the rabble-rousing baying of foreign agitators to lay the foundations of another great trunk line of our engines of steam and piston to our honourable allies and business partners in the Kus - verily, within the next decade goods from Valleyhome might reach the reaches of the Kus within weeks rather than months, and theirs ours!

But this beautiful vision of our nation's future profits does not end here, my friends, for indeed we have secured a great amount of funding in the budget to ensure the prosperity of our nations' industries. From my own home in Petyrburg to the Symbyrsk Industrial Zone to the expansion of the Trelli foundries, we shall never let the fires fade. Imagine it, my friends, the eternal, unceasing drumbeat of hammer upon iron, the roaring of the forges and the hiss of steam. We will have work for everyone in our cities, all day, all night, every day of the year. None shall go hungry for want of labour!

My friends, my countrymen, we shall continue to build upon the glories of the Dual Monarchy - our armies shall never want for arms, the People shall never want for work, and even the perfidious Elba - a pox upon their houses! - shall experience firsthand the mighty resolve of the Gylruv, the wit and skill of the Ymaryn and the braided-steel strength from all those who have made their home in our nation!

So indeed, forwards to Industry! Forwards to a better, brighter future!

---

The Liberal Party's core plan is as follows:

CORE:
Rapid Develop Industry - 1 PW + Innovation 10+: +2 IC and Active Development, +1 Pollution, -2 Temp IC, +2 Infrastructural Temp IC
Rapid Develop Industry - 1 PW + Innovation 10+: +2 IC and Active Development, +1 Pollution, -2 Temp IC, +2 Infrastructural Temp IC
Sell Crown Corporation (7/14) - 0 PW

Furthermore, dear readers, I would ask for your support on this:
Thread PW:
Found Valleyhome-Kus Railway Company - 1 PW, -2 IC
Build Espionage Network -2 PW + >10 Trust: +1 Espionage, -1 Trust (The Sketch Condition)


We would like to make sure that our rivals, nemeses and all-around constant irritants, the Sketch, will not get away with everything, forever - and if anyoen can outwit the Sketch, it is the agile, innovative and progress-oriented Liberal party. Support us in this endeavour!

Furthermore, it is in our interests - as shown by the recent unpleasantness with the western half of the Sheep - to link this area up with rails. Both for the transfer of goods between India and our heartlands but also in case we need to beat on people with a great big stick.

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ManusDomine said:

Adress to the Parliamentary Higher Chamber
Right Honourable Lord Mynys, Estate of Dymonie​

Countrymen and people of the Ymar-Gylruv Dual Crown.

It is the nature of men to meet adversity, and it is the nature of some to break, and some to stand and some to bend. In the parliament of ours, there can be no standing, and there can be no breaking. Those who break get no say, and those who stand are eventually crushed. No, there can only be bending like the willow, proud and full of one's convictions, but willing to accommodate others. In such manner, man can learn from the tree, and civil negotiation can take place in a proper manner. And that is proper, for willingness to listen, but pride in one's beliefs is the only way to evade the populism and reaction that threatens democracy, and requires a great King like our own to temper.

Once again, willingness to accommodate each other has seen our most august parliament successful. The Royalist-Conservative-Liberal coalition has, with proper and civil rhetoric and negotiation reached many conclusions, and will continue to do so in the future. It is thus, that I can proudly present my sincerest, deepest desires to increase the living standard for the common man. Old buildings will be renovated and a new sewer will see to the swift and expeditious movement of waste and water. The brave soldiers in wars abroad will return to a new city, a better city, a place improved by the very best of everyone.

The cursed Sketch are a factory people, the common poor know only the iron wheels and churning smoke of the factories, and they have turned their forests to blasted heaths in service of a golden calf of industry. Let us show them that every proud man and woman of the Ymar-Gylruv Dual Crown can work thrice as good as any worker there, and return to a home that any Sketch nouveau riche can only be envious of!

Forward, forward into the new century, with the traditions at our back and God above us!

The core Conservative plan is as follows:

Construct Sewer - 1 PW: -4 temp IC, +1 Sewer

In addition, I would like to ask of you to receive four political will to enact the changes below, all for the good of the Nation:

Improve Standard of Living - 2PW + Innovation >10: Increases SoL by 1, -3 Infrastructural Temp IC
Improve Standard of Living - 2PW + Innovation >10: Increases SoL by 1, -3 Infrastructural Temp IC

We wish the brave soldiers abroad to return to a city that is cleaner, better, and open to them for their bravery and their courage. We wish to demonstrate to the pox-ridden Sketch that we can do all that they can, and come away better, prouder and healthier too. We will progress steadily, surely, and with the rock of tradition below our safely-planted feet. Support the Conservative Party!

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Citino said:

From what the other factions leaders mentioned

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Citino said:

Again.

They have their reasoning, in clear and excellent detail.

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George said:

This is exactly it though. Just as they have every right to go off to a metaphorical smoke-filled room to get stuff done, we have every right to be upset that they did so and vote against them out of principle due to not being able to actually see how the plan is decided.

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10ebbor10 said:

I haven't seen much discussion of this, but it's an important thing. Sketch and Kielmyr are working hard together on steamships.

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Random Member said:

Of course the bourgeoisie would work together to promote their own interests and shut out the workers (and farmers too, I guess). This just proves that none of them can be trusted. The proletariat must seize what it wants instead of begging them for scraps, by force if necessary!

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Random Member said:

See @Sivantic , the problem is that you're trying to work with the bourgeoisie. As I already pointed out:

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