Right guys, this is the quote to determine if Viserys retains his dragon senses while in Human Form.

Alternate Form said:
A creature with this special quality has the ability to assume one or more specific alternate forms. A true seeing spell or ability reveals the creature's natural form. A creature using alternate form reverts to its natural form when killed, but separated body parts retain their shape. A creature cannot use alternate form to take the form of a creature with a template. Assuming an alternate form results in the following changes to the creature:

  • The creature retains the type and subtype of its original form. It gains the size of its new form. If the new form has the aquatic subtype, the creature gains that subtype as well.
  • The creature loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarian's rage class feature).
  • The creature gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form.
  • The creature retains the special qualities of its original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its new form.
  • The creature retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or attacks of its new form.
  • The creature gains the physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con) of its new form. It retains the mental ability scores (Int, Wis, Cha) of its original form. Apply any changed physical ability score modifiers in all appropriate areas with one exception: the creature retains the hit points of its original form despite any change to its Constitution.
  • The creature retains its hit points and save bonuses, although its save modifiers may change due to a change in ability scores.
  • Except as described elsewhere, the creature retains all other game statistics of its original form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses.
  • The creature retains any spellcasting ability it had in its original form, although it must be able to speak intelligibly to cast spells with verbal components and it must have humanlike hands to cast spells with somatic components.
  • The creature is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its new form, and it gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise.
  • Any gear worn or carried by the creature that can't be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can't wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and vice versa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.

Two of potentially relevant quotes. Basically, unless explicitly noted otherwise the default is that Viserys will retain as much of his Dragon abilities despite his different form..
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Feb 22, 2018 at 7:53 AM, finished with 157763 posts and 28 votes.
 
[X] Explain that he might have magic of some sort and try to discover its nature
-[X] Ask him to allow us a completly harmless and non-invasive test
-[X] Summon a Janni, let it go Etheral and ask him to try hitting it. We and Lya watch with Greater Arcane Sight and True Sight respectivly
 
@DragonParadox Doesn't look like this one is going to change any time soon.
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Feb 22, 2018 at 7:53 AM, finished with 157763 posts and 28 votes.
 
Great! more time wasted poking into other peoples' mysteries. I hope Benjen blows off messing about with us and goes back to his duties.
We're invested in making sure the First Ranger of the Night's Watch stays alive, and part of that is making sure he has a solid understanding on what he is and isn't capable of. An hour or so helping him learn what he can do is not a big sacrifice, and it greatly helps the Watch. This, by the way, would be part of Benjen's duties since he'd be using those abilities Beyond the Wall on his missions.
 
Part MDCCLVIII: The Strength of Elder Days
The Strength of Elder Days

Sixteenth Day of the First Month 293 AC

For a long moment you hesitate in speaking, not wishing to risk confirming any tales of demon calling before one who is not naturally inclined to be sympathetic... but on the other hand could you truly justify denying knowledge that may save lives or souls on such a pretext? "There is naught unusual about the sword. However, you may have some sorcery of your own..." You watch carefully as an expression of appointment changes to one of surprise, but not fear, good.

"I spoke no words and worked no sorcery that I know of," the First ranger replies, confused. "Mayhap there is some power in the blood awakened at great need?"

"So it was for me, but magic once woken does not slumber again," Waymar offers sympathetically. "It was wildlings in the Vale," he adds at Stark's searching look.

"There are some harmless tests we could do to see the manner of it if you wish," you say in turn, cautiously.

"I swore my myself body and mind to the Watch, I suppose that includes whatever strange power I may hold," comes the reply after a thoughtful silence. "I'm willing to try, if it is as you say."

You would have preferred the statement without the final words and the lack of trust they implies, but you will take it over blind hostility any day. With a painful mental twist you shape your power into an imitation of a spell you saw Vee cast many times before, a calling of one of the lesser genies.

"What the hells is that?" comes the expected and wholly reasonable question upon having an blatantly inhuman stranger materialize in the chamber.

"Think of this as... a living dream," you explain. "This is a spirit of distant places not truly present and not affected by any harm that might befall his form."

"Your will I serve, lord of the Burning Blood," the genie says with a bow, thankfully in the tongue of dragons.

The First Ranger takes some persuasion to strike a defenseless... being, but once it becomes clear that he does not have to cause any serious harm, merely swing his sword through what seems like empty air, he acquiesces to interesting results. As the plain castle-forged sword passes through the janni now treading the edge of the spirit world, the blade abruptly comes alive with ghostly blue flame and you can see for just an instant the power bound to it, a magic meant to unravel and banish.

"That's exceedingly odd..." you muse.

"There was no blue light when I fought the specter." Stark sounds shocked by the blatant show of sorcery, looking at his own hand as though he cannot quite recognize it.

"Little wonder, that," you explain. "That would have done little good against one of the dead, as they are still creatures of this world, however unnatural their presence. You did not so much harm the spirit as send it back whence it came."

"Did any words come to mind, any odd gestures that somehow felt right in the moment?" Waymar asks after a moment.

A shake of the head confirms what you already suspected. With every moment this looked less like magic, which was consciously directed in the service of the caster and more like some odd blessing that came out in times of need, but who could have gifted such a thing? Not the Old Gods, for Bloodraven would surely have told you, and not the Seven for they would have no business blessing a northerner who paid them no homage...

"What if its that?" Ser Richard interjects, pointing out the window to the looming presence of the Wall. "You said there is still great magic in it. What if it does more than lie there like mortar binding brick."

"Of course..." you shake your head at the revelation. "Much would have changed since it was raised, the names of the lands, the tongues its people spoke, but the oaths would have been held sacrosanct by their very nature, perhaps close enough to serve as a spell of sorts, an invocation of its slumbering power."

"The others couldn't hurt the ghost," Stark says, not so much in denial, but wishing to understand.

"The others were not First Ranger," you counter. "Perhaps something within the Wall recognized that. I confess I could not tell you how its inner workings turn. It shines so bright to mage-sight that to attempt that would be like trying to decipher writing upon the face of the sun."

"Or perhaps it is merely that you kept to your oaths more closely than any other present that night," Waymar adds thoughtfully. "There is great worth in an oath kept."

The ranger shakes his head not in denial but weariness, suddenly looking much older then his years. "I suppose in such days one should be grateful for whatever blessings we may find, even strange ones."

***​

Not long after all four of you seek out Maester Aemon, finding the old man looking over the ledgers Alinor complied. He seems cheerful at his work, undaunted by the fact that this is only one of several heavy tomes before him.

"Is that not the task of the First Steward?" you ask upon offering greetings.

"He is... busy for the moment," Aemon replies, looking a trifle embarrassed, with perhaps a spark of disappointment in his eye. At a guess the man does not want anything to do with 'witch steel' without the Lord Commander here to make him do his job.

Still you do not press for Aemon's sake and speak instead of other matters, how one may be warned of the presence of unseen foes and the signs that mark enthrallment as well as what mundane means there are to counter both. You also cautiously propose the notion of Black Brothers being sent to Sorcerer's Deep to take part in the Scholarum and learn magic.

"We have few enough men as it is... though likely to receive more now with the new steel," the old man says between optimism tempered by many decades of privations on the Wall.

"Green boys drawn in by the promise of magic," Stark snorts. "Ser Thorne might swear hard enough to blister stone if that happens," he adds a hint of his natural good humor coming through in spite of your presence.

How many men do you offer to train for the Watch?

[] Write in


OOC: Ser Richard's luck with wisdom rolls strikes again.
 
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We're invested in making sure the First Ranger of the Night's Watch stays alive, and part of that is making sure he has a solid understanding on what he is and isn't capable of. An hour or so helping him learn what he can do is not a big sacrifice, and it greatly helps the Watch. This, by the way, would be part of Benjen's duties since he'd be using those abilities Beyond the Wall on his missions.
Not really. They'll appoint another one if he dies. His missions beyond the wall are not critical to our plans.

Meanwhile the Nights Watch is tied in to the Maester network and can investigate their own emerging powers and can even send a letter to our college if they want.
 
Not really. They'll appoint another one if he dies. His missions beyond the wall are not critical to our plans.

Meanwhile the Nights Watch is tied in to the Maester network and can investigate their own emerging powers and can even send a letter to our college if they want.
I think we have a fundamental difference in thinking between the two of us if you really see no value in putting in effort to keep Benjen alive. Not only is he a competent First Ranger who will be invaluable in helping fight the Long Night, but he's also a way for us to indirectly diplomance the Starks. There's a reason we give a damn about him, otherwise he would have been ignored.
 
Basically what Duesal said. We cannot directly approach the Starks, so if we want to push the North towards being neutral towards us, we must approach indirectly. We've made some gains with House Manderly, and the wall is something the entire north is aware of, so our aid here is good. More particularly though in this case, we know from canon that Benjen visits Winterfell on occasion and talks with Ned. Making a good impression on him, and then keeping him alive to pass that impression on, when added to our public actions in helping the wall, and the good word for us from White Harbor, those actions will matter more to him in forming his opinion of us than rumor and hearsay will.

Hearing of the good we've done for the watch directly from his brother will carry more weight, and if Ned dies at any point (a.k.a. the war of five kings is kicked off in any manner that even passingly resembles canon), the Stark's opinion of us will come from what Ned said, and as many people we've gotten in our court as possible. Benjen being available to give his personal opinion of us is invaluable.
 
When are we raising Elia again?

All this talk of alliances is getting me interested in building bridges with Dorne (an objectively better ally than the North in almost every way).

And we are having our showdown with the shadow Dragon soon, right? That way we can easily solve most logistical issues like troop transport between our allies in an emergency. And I want to use the tower as a means of invasion!
 
When are we raising Elia again?

All this talk of alliances is getting me interested in building bridges with Dorne (an objectively better ally than the North in almost every way).

And we are having our showdown with the shadow Dragon soon, right? That way we can easily solve most logistical issues like troop transport between our allies in an emergency. And I want to use the tower as a means of invasion!

Dorne means dealing with Doran, so that looses like... 30 ally points right there.

I would like to do it soon. There was some mention of Orberyn's mission, but IDGAF, grab him and talk to him and Doran and get on with our day.

Edit: I really wanted to rez the Dracolich as a gold dragon, but there's no traction for a long term plan in the thread :'(
 
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Dorne means dealing with Doran, so that looses like... 30 ally points right there.

I would like to do it soon. There was some mention of Orberyn's mission, but IDGAF, grab him and talk to him and Doran and get on with our day.
Wasn't the idea 'after Tyrosh', to make a real impression?
 
Dorne means dealing with Doran, so that looses like... 30 ally points right there.

I would like to do it soon. There was some mention of Orberyn's mission, but IDGAF, grab him and talk to him and Doran and get on with our day.
And we have free days soon...
We're waiting to do it immediately after Tyrosh is captured. The plan is to give Doran a heads up that we have the scroll at the beginning of next month and give Oberyn a bit of time to finish his mission, because the second Elia is resurrected Oberyn won't leave her side and his mission (invaluable to Dorne, btw) would effectively be dead.

We're doing it, just not immediately.
 
My proposal is to do it next month, without Oberyn present. He might get pissy about it, but hey, his sister is alive. It also prevents him from abandoning his men in Essos, if he just gets a message from Doran (passed through us) to wrap things up and return (rather than being present, and then refusing to leave his sister to return to Essos).

Wasn't the idea 'after Tyrosh', to make a real impression?

I prefer the opposite, that is, before Tyrosh to cement the alliance. If we do it next month, and then say we'll return to discuss the exact details of the alliance once Doran isn't quite so busy helping his sister, and then go conquer Tyrosh before returning would be ideal. It puts us in a strong negotiating position, but also demonstrated that we took his request seriously and did not delay Elia's resurrection.
 
And we have free days soon...

Would only take an hour to explain all the things and then do it a day later after they have had time to think about their plan.

Edit: maybe it's just me, but I just do not care about Oberyn's mission. We can just grab him and drop him back in a week if need be. He might still be on his boat

We're raising their dead sister (if she consents). There is no 'greater impact' worth mentioning.

So, my position is, asap, grab Oberyn, explain the situation to himself and Doran, (attempt to) raise their sister, then after a week, drop Oberyn back, or not. Up to him if he wants to abandon his men. Again idgaf, and I don't see why others care either.
 
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