Remove ads

A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

Reader mode
TotallyNotEvil said:
May I ask you to reconsider? "It will want to kill things when sparring because it can't accept a retreat.". "It will try to twist you for its own purposes". "Don't carry your own damn weapon."

This is ranges from straight up false to purely conjecture. Seems to be trying to scare her away more than anything.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

From the 3.5 srd

The item is, of course, absolutely true to its alignment. If the character who possesses the item is not true to that alignment's goals or the item's special purpose, personality conflict—item against character—results.
Naturally, such actions are unlikely when harmony reigns between the character's and item's alignments or when their purposes and personalities are well matched. Even so, an item might wish to have a lesser character possess it in order to easily establish and maintain dominance over him, or a higher-level possessor so as to better accomplish its goals.
All magic items with personalities desire to play an important role in whatever activity is under way, particularly combat.
Items with personalities are never totally controlled or silenced by the characters who possess them, even though they may never successfully control their possessors. They may be powerless to force their demands but remain undaunted and continue to air their wishes and demands.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It's lawful evil, axiomatically true to a devil's goals, deviating from alignment also triggers an ego roll, is warned that it might favor a certain person to bully or dominate them because it thinks they're an easier target, likes to get involved and never shuts up.

Edit: It can whisper in her ear constantly, and I want her to both have positive social actions that it can't do so, and want her to know that if it starts to be detrimental she can give it back rather than say nothing as it bullies her into being a wielder that it wants.
 
Last edited:
Scribbler said:
Eh, I agree that it seem like Diomedon's plan is too much, but yours is too little. Maybe add a generic IC "explain what Viserys knows of the dangers of such weapons," or "present her with a primer on the baatezu who had once wielded this weapon and whose semblance it bears."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I've amended it somewhat.

We are way too paranoid about it, however. It is a known quantity, and PfE makes her immune to ill effects in the unlikely scenario she triggers its, well, conflict triggers, and it'd still have to go through a high will save even then.

This is a godsend for her. A weapon that is fantastic for both channeling magic like her class allows for, general melee fighting and mounted combat, even more effective at flying mounted combat than what you'd expect.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Yes, but we are also trying to define a monster.

Xor is Beholderkin, an Aberration born of incomprehensible madness with a lot of crazy evil relatives.
Glyra is a Gremlin, an incarnation of petty violence and brutal slapstick.
Yet neither are what we call monsters.

I like what DP said about Dany's view, those within the circle of fire contributing to society and the others.
Azema is in. She doesn't fit in very well, but to the best of our knowledge she's keeping to the rules and deals we made. So she's not a monster here.
That's something we can tell our people, especially if we keep her backstory in the dark.

Edit: And our Westerosi-PR targets couldn't tell a Halfdragon from a Demon, nevermind an Alu from a Tiefling.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Unless she's just a long-term (sleeper) agent.
 
Diomedon said:
From the 3.5 srd



It's lawful evil, axiomatically true to a devil's goals, deviating from alignment also triggers an ego roll, is warned that it might favor a certain person to bully or dominate them because it thinks they're an easier target, likes to get involved and never shuts up.

Edit: It can whisper in her ear constantly, and I want her to both have positive social actions that it can't do so, and know if it starts to be detrimental she can give it back rather than say nothing as it bullies her into being a wielder that it wants.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It might, but it has showed to like her anyway, and it ultimately can't do a thing to her.

A weapon she wields for ten levels won't easily, or ever, betray her. As long as she fights good.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
I've amended it somewhat.

We are way too paranoid about it, however. It is a known quantity, and PfE makes her immune to ill effects in the unlikely scenario she triggers its, well, conflict triggers, and it'd still have to go through a high will save even then.

This is a godsend for her. A weapon that is fantastic for both channeling magic like her class allows for, general melee fighting and mounted combat, even more effective at flying mounted combat than what you'd expect.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Ego triggers have around 25% chance of succeeding currently. And the damaging effect I'm most worried about is talking. We're Viserys, the diplomancer? We of all people should know how powerful words softly spoken at the right moment can be.

TotallyNotEvil said:
It might, but it has showed to like her anyway, and it ultimately can't do a thing to her.

A weapon she wields for ten levels won't easily, or ever, betray her. As long as she fights good.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I just quoted why it might like her because it thinks it can dominate and bully her, from the actual ruleset. That's not a positive.
 
And it can't do shit through PfE, and it will most likely not want to even try anything.

But I've added a line that she should not let herself by bullied by it.

"Overthink each and every word it says as it will probably try to twist you to some nefarious end" is paranoia, and counterproductive.
 
Last edited:
Diomedon said:
It's lawful evil, axiomatically true to a devil's goals, deviating from alignment also triggers an ego roll, is warned that it favor a certain person to bully or dominate them because it thinks they're an easier target, likes to get involved and never shut up.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You're presenting the worst case scenario, and even then I think your warnings are excessive. We got a pretty mild warning at identification, and I trust Valaena to handle it.

[X] TotallyNotEvil
DragonParadox said:
"The chain likes to kill things and isn't picky about what, might give some bad advice if whoever has it is the kind to listen."

Coils of Agony proclaimed safe
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Last edited:
TotallyNotEvil said:
And it can't do shit through PfE, and it will most likely not want to even try anything.

But I've added a line that she should not let herself by bullied by it.

"Overthink each and every word it says as it will probably try to twist you to some nefarious end" is paranoia, and counterproductive.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
PFE isn't enough. We're giving a child a devil that she will keep with her and talk her into Bad choices! Or at least Evil behaviour (maybe cruelty?).
Vyserys is good at talking, he wouldn't underestimate the power of words.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
[X] Speak to Valaena.
-[X] Offer her the Coils of Agony but warn her that the chain likes to kill things and isn't picky about what. Be careful about listening to its advice when it's about anything but fighting. It can't actually affect her, however. Her amulet makes her immune to it, and a spellcaster's trained will should make her highly resistant. The most it can do is talk.
-[X] It is, however, a truly phenomenal weapon. Especially good for someone mounted on a flying beast, and at the same time great for the style we are seeing her develop. Getting anything comparable would be highly unlikely. We trust her good sense in handling it, it's a weapon, a great and unique weapon, it just has some unique safety warnings, much like any other weapon might. She shouldn't let herself be scared of it.
--[X] If she accepts encourage her to train with the weapon before the expedition to Daemon's Folly.
--[X] Don't let it bully her, she is the master and it is the weapon.
-[X] Give Valaena her dragon egg and pass on the dragonlore advice you received from Bloodraven.

There, the weapon is a bloodthirsty puppy, not a shoulder demon.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There, amended it.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
PFE isn't enough. We're giving a child a devil that she will keep with her and talk her into Bad choices! Or at least Evil behaviour (maybe cruelty?).
Vyserys is good at talking, he wouldn't underestimate the power of words.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm pretty sure that she is smart enough to realize "why don't you kill those orphans?!" is Bad.

She is in control. Let's underline this. People do bad things when they can justify it as not being responsible for their actions. Like being in the middle of a mob, or inebriated, or angry.

If we make it clear that it's 100% her, it shouldn't be a problem.

Short of scaring her away from it, not much we can do on that front anyway. I doubt it's a chatterbox. Or a Khornate chatterbox, for that matter.
 
Last edited:
This is going to be an incredible weapon for Valaena. I was excited about giving her that Valyrian Steel sword before (what are we going to do with that thing now, btw?), but this is leagues better.

So she's getting the chain, Amulet of PfE, Belt of Healing, Anklets of Translocation, Mithral Armor (eventually), and a Valyrian Dragon.

I also want to tack a Ribbon of Disguise on there at some point. Not a greater one, just a regular 200 IM one that even Leila could craft. I want one for every baby adventurer (although Argo probably needs a Greater Ribbon).
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
And it can't do shit through PfE, and it will most likely not want to even try anything.

But I've added a line that she should not let herself by bullied by it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


*sighs*

Again, from the srd.

Should an item gain dominance, it resists the character's desires and demands concessions such as any of the following:
  • Removal of associates or items whose alignment or personality is distasteful to the item.
  • The character divesting herself of all other magic items or items of a certain type.
  • Obedience from the character so the item can direct where they go for its own purposes.
  • Immediate seeking out and slaying of creatures hateful to the item.
  • Magical protections and devices to safeguard the item from molestation when it is not in use.
  • That the character carry the item with her on all occasions.
  • That the character relinquish the item to a more suitable possessor due to alignment differences or conduct.
In extreme circumstances, the item can resort to even harsher measures, such as the following:
  • Force its possessor into combat.
  • Refuse to strike opponents.
  • Strike at its wielder or her associates.
  • Force its possessor to surrender to an opponent.
  • Cause itself to drop from the character's grasp.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It can't do the full possession actions, but it can actively resist being used and make demands of the character before permitting use again, or move itself to do things like...strike Valaena or others, or fall out of her hand. And, once again, a PfE doesn't protect against words.

You're missing the key leverage I'm trying to deny a worst case scenario, that completely neuters the danger. If Valaena knows that we wont think less of her for saying she doesn't want it, the girl who is insecure about her place in our court will do so. If she thinks she needs to "prove" herself, despite it making her lose sleep and constantly bothering her, and that she can't ask for help because that shows she isn't strong enough to be what we expect. In particular

--[] Don't let it bully her, she is the master and it is the weapon.

This line is worse than saying nothing. It's implying that if she admits she's failing, that she is failing our expectations of her, so rather than admit she's having trouble, she'll stay silent.

Like, I feel you're misunderstanding my misgivings completely.
 
Seems like a pretty solid vote to me.
Adhoc vote count started by TotallyNotEvil on Feb 14, 2018 at 9:41 AM, finished with 154605 posts and 15 votes.
  • [X] Speak to Valaena.
    -[X] Offer her the Coils of Agony but warn her that the chain likes to kill things and isn't picky about what. Be careful about listening to its advice when it's about anything but fighting. It can't actually affect her, however. Her amulet makes her immune to it, and a spellcaster's trained will should make her highly resistant. The most it can do is talk.
    -[X] It is, however, a truly phenomenal weapon. Especially good for someone mounted on a flying beast, and at the same time great for the style we are seeing her develop. Getting anything comparable would be highly unlikely. We trust her good sense in handling it, it's a weapon, a great and unique weapon, it just has some unique safety warnings, much like any other weapon might. She shouldn't let herself be scared of it.
    --[X] If she accepts encourage her to train with the weapon before the expedition to Daemon's Folly.
    --[X] Don't let it bully her, she is the master and it is the weapon.
    -[X] Give Valaena her dragon egg and pass on the dragonlore advice you received from Bloodraven
    [X] Speak to Valaena about her choice of weapon
    -[X] Warn her about the chain's origins and conflict triggers. It will likely want to kill things rather than accept surrender, and thus she should be cautious, particularly during sparring.
    --[X]Finally, it is able to speak to it's wielder, and it is likely to give her bad advice if they will listen, or even worse, seemingly good advice designed to make her rely upon it, and use that reliance to twist her to its purposes.
    --[X]If she does take up this weapon, you advise her to not carry it with her at all times, and in particular ensure she has time spent with comrades away from the thing every week.
    --[X]If it's too much, she doesn't have to accept it, you simply think it could be useful from the back of a dragon, but there are other ways to squeeze use from things. Additionally, if she accepts and finds it too difficult or too grating, you'd prefer she'd tell you and exchange it rather than suffer needlessly. She is much more important and valuable than some rusty chain, no matter how magical it is.
    --[X] If she accepts encourage her to train with the weapon before the expedition to Daemon's Folly.
    -[X] Give Valaena her dragon egg and pass on the dragonlore advice you received from Bloodraven
    [X] Speak to Valaena.
    -[X] Offer her a choice between adamantium thinblade like garins or vs longsword
    -[X] Give Valaena her dragon egg and pass on the dragonlore advice you received from Bloodraven
    [X] Talk to Azema about her learning magic
    -[X] Ask how it's going and how she gets along with Dany in her training
    -[X] Tell her that you, as well as your sister and Maelor all had chances to draw power from our heritage, she will likely have too. That's not a bad thing, not a temptation to be resisted, but something she should keep under control, lest she becomes a full demon without considering all consequences.
    -[X] Talk about the things of beauty in this world she enjoys, poetry, cooking and interesting people and ask her if she knows a single true demon who could enjoy such things.
    -[X] Promise that she can walk in the Deep openly soon, concealing her appearance was lately more for her spy-work's sake than because of her fiendish features.
    --[X] Suggest that she spends some time among your people before her magic awakens.
    [x] TNE
Click to expand...
 
@Diomedon, if you just right now up and decide to vote to give her that longsword we (I think?) prepared in the likeness of her House (seahorse et al) then I will name vote you right on the spot.

Is the chain good? Yes, goddamn is it good.

Am I interested in the back and forth? Not in the least.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top