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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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[X] Snowfire

DON'T BE HASTY!
Remember that we haven't yet asked Lya to marry us. Mom should know this! Otherwise when she talks to Lya sha may say unwise e things that will ruin our proposal to Lya when we get around to it.
Don't take Lya for granted, it's rude!
 
Frankly, it's for the same reason a king would marry a lord paramount daughter. Power. On one side, it's trough their armies, and on the other trough their magic, but in the end what matter is binding that power to the crown.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Remember that we haven't yet asked Lya to marry us. Mom should know this! Otherwise when she talks to Lya sha may say unwise e things that will ruin our proposal to Lya when we get around to it.
Don't take Lya for granted, it's rude!
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It's worse that rude, that'd ruin our proposal!

Speaking of have we even discussed when and what that's going to be?

Personally I'm all for doing after the Great Squid Genocide, to have our promise of love illuminated by the fires of a burning empire and the unending screams of a horror from beyond the grave begging for a death we will never grant it.

But I'm a hopeless romantic.
 
[X] Azel

"Even if I didn't love Lya too much to let her be second to some political marriage to someone who wouldn't be able to share my life, I would still value her mind and magic higher than tenthousand swords and all the acres of a kingdom and time has and will prove me right in that."

I think that brings my opinion on the point.
Too blunt?
 
Hate to break out the obvious answer to the conundrum of getting Rhaella on board with merit/love based marriages instead of purely political ones..

in the Freehold, Politics was of course a great motivator for marriage, but sorcerous power moreso.

And We have a High Valyrian Lawyer on the payroll.


[X] Snowfire
 
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Thelunarwolf said:
Hate to break out the obvious answer to the conundrum of getting Rhaella on board with merit/love based marriages instead of purely political ones..

in the Freehold, Politics was of course a great motivator for marriage, but sorcerous power moreso.

And We have a High Valyrian Lawyer on the payroll.
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....

On the one hand you've got a point, a damn good point if I'm going to be honest.

On the other hand bringing an ancient wizard from ages long past who has been sleeping for untold years to our mother in order to explain why we want to marry a low born orphan instead of a princess kinda defeats the point of doing this in a way that doesn't shatter her world view.
 
"Mother, may I introduce our latest ally. Among other things, he is the foremost living expert on Valyrian history in the world, with a special focus on the legal system of the Freehold."

After all, no need for unnecessary tangents. :)
 
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Woke up early. Have a preliminary plan. No coddling or psychological jujitsu here, just the truth.

[X] "I understand your confusion, Mother, and forgive your presumption. Lya will not be my mistress. I care for her too much to ever demean her so. I intend to make her my wife, if she will have me."
-[X] "Before you object, let me speak." Gently, but firmly. This is a worldview that needs...readjustment.
-[X] "The world has changed a great deal from what you once knew, Mother. For one such as I, who possesses the power to burn armies and sunder entire fleets with no more than word and gesture, their is little value in a political marriage. Sorcerous power buys allies just as surely, and without half the hassle or intrigue."
-[X] "The return of magic has made the world small. You saw it yourself, how easily I journeyed thousands of miles in an instant, and returned just as quickly. Westeros is but a single continent of a single world, Mother. Why bind myself to a noble daughter from one small province of a small world? I would much prefer sharing all the worlds within my reach with an equal, who can appreciate the splendor of the Planes just as much as I."
-[X] "There is also the matter of my draconic nature. I am on the cusp of a great transformation, one born of our Valyrian ancestry and the magic flowing through my veins, which will prolong my life for centuries, if not millennia, barring accident or injury. Lya is fully capable of making similar arrangements for herself. Would you rather I spend a few decades with a mortal woman, who will soon enough return to the dust of the earth, or one who can stand by my side as I build an empire that would make the Lords of the Freehold weep tears of bitter envy?"
[X] "Consider, too, the terrible enemies I have made in the short time since magic awakened. From us you have learned of but the barest fraction of what truly lurks in the darkness, Mother. Beings unlike any you could ever imagine already have designs on my life, and the lives of my friends. Such is the price for protecting the world from their ceaseless predation. I do not need a helpless wife to serve as a target of opportunity for any creature that bears a grudge against me. A powerful wife loyal to me through bonds of love and mutual respect, who can defend our future children just as surely as I, will be of far greater worth than any noble's daughter bound by duty or greed."
 
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There's always an air of "put upon" with you, @Goldfish, when it comes to Rhaella. I understand you personally aren't a great fan of navigating around her delicate psyche, but your vote basically ignores the spirit in totality of how Viserys views helping his mother adapt to the world as it is now. "Forgive your presumption"?

There's an easier way of getting across that you aren't offended, without making it clear that were it anyone else, you would be offended.
 
Goldfish is not one of the talky guys. He tends to always have that air.

Making my cliff notes a plan until @Snowfire comes up with something.

[X] Plan Politics
-[X] The political landscape has vastly changed. Westeros alone is not everything we have to consider and the vast personal powers of mages make them a force in their own right.
-[X] A marriage alliance cuts both ways and tying us to a LP in that fashion would be a considerable investment.
-[X] Westeros is disunited since the Rebellion. Strong royal favor to a single house would significantly worsen that issue.
-[X] The changes to the world mean that reforms are necessary to the way countries are governed. The Rebellion has shown how brittle a system without strong central authority can become and it needs institutions, not Lord, to address this.
-[X] Due to our awakening blood and personal might, we will probably live for centuries. Dynastic considerations have changed vastly and a wife who we will easily outlive is untenable.
 
Crake said:
There's always an air of "put upon" with you, @Goldfish, when it comes to Rhaella. I understand you personally aren't a great fan of navigating around her delicate psyche, but your vote basically ignores the spirit in totality of how Viserys views helping his mother adapt to the world as it is now. "Forgive your presumption"?

There's an easier way of getting across that you aren't offended, without making it clear that were it anyone else, you would be offended.
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@Azel has the right of it. I'm not talky on a lot of stuff, hence my frequent comments somewhere along the lines of "too wordy" when some of ya'll really get too deep into the speechifying.

As for Rhaella, yeah, you're right. I've enjoyed the character interactions since she was Resurrected, but I've made no secret of my hope that the spell would fail. The more we have to cater to her fragile psyche and obsolete PoV, the more certain I become that she is going to be a drag on the entire quest. @Snowfire isn't helping by further encouraging the treatment of her as a delicate snowflake. He certainly didn't like my suggestion of using Heart's Ease to fix her in the event of a mental breakdown, despite that being the exact purpose of the spell.
 
@DragonParadox, when Aemon was talking about this:
DragonParadox said:
of direwolves white as driven snow whose breath was frost like the ice dragon's
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Were the direwolves with ice breath overly hostile? Were they actively hunting the living?

Because if not, there's a chance that at least one winter-touched species isn't claimed by the Others. These things would make great companions for the Starks if we could pull it off.
 
Ok, properly awake. A question though, @DragonParadox because I'd like to resolve this a bit. How would Viserys or Dany react to being forced to use Heart's Ease on their own mother in the (hopefully unlikely) event that they somehow made a catastrophic misstep and her mind broke? We've already seen Viserys blame himself for non-perfect results where people he has no emotional connection with are involved. How would a major failure affect him when the person involved was his own mother?

Edit: this assumes that Heart's Ease would in fact be the panacea people keep assuming it to be when we've already had proof that it's not.
 
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It's more a matter of, "Viserys, when the source of concern was family", became incredibly depressed for a non-inconsiderable length of time, which did negatively effect the quality of life of... pretty much everyone around him for the duration of that time.

Treating family roughly just for the simple sake of expedience when a little patience might do just as well is a sure-fire way to regret.

I don't actually particular like the way Snowfire has handled the wording of votes, much less the overall tone, but you can't argue that it's been effective.

She only needs to keep it together until "strange" becomes the new "normal".
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by TalonofAnathrax on Jan 26, 2018 at 5:46 AM, finished with 76 posts and 9 votes.
  • [X] Snowfire
    [X] Plan Politics
    -[X] The political landscape has vastly changed. Westeros alone is not everything we have to consider and the vast personal powers of mages make them a force in their own right.
    -[X] A marriage alliance cuts both ways and tying us to a LP in that fashion would be a considerable investment.
    -[X] Westeros is disunited since the Rebellion. Strong royal favor to a single house would significantly worsen that issue.
    -[X] The changes to the world mean that reforms are necessary to the way countries are governed. The Rebellion has shown how brittle a system without strong central authority can become and it needs institutions, not Lord, to address this.
    -[X] Due to our awakening blood and personal might, we will probably live for centuries. Dynastic considerations have changed vastly and a wife who we will easily outlive is untenable.
    [X] "I understand your confusion, Mother, and forgive your presumption. Lya will not be my mistress. I care for her too much to ever demean her so. I intend to make her my wife, if she will have me."
    -[X] "Before you object, let me speak." Gently, but firmly. This is a worldview that needs...readjustment.
    -[X] "The world has changed a great deal from what you once knew, Mother. For one such as I, who possesses the power to burn armies and sunder entire fleets with no more than word and gesture, their is little value in a political marriage. Sorcerous power buys allies just as surely, and without half the hassle or intrigue."
    -[X] "The return of magic has made the world small. You saw it yourself, how easily I journeyed thousands of miles in an instant, and returned just as quickly. Westeros is but a single continent of a single world, Mother. Why bind myself to a noble daughter from one small province of a small world? I would much prefer sharing all the worlds within my reach with an equal, who can appreciate the splendor of the Planes just as much as I."
    -[X] "There is also the matter of my draconic nature. I am on the cusp of a great transformation, one born of our Valyrian ancestry and the magic flowing through my veins, which will prolong my life for centuries, if not millennia, barring accident or injury. Lya is fully capable of making similar arrangements for herself. Would you rather I spend a few decades with a mortal woman, who will soon enough return to the dust of the earth, or one who can stand by my side as I build an empire that would make the Lords of the Freehold weep tears of bitter envy?"
    [X] "Consider, too, the terrible enemies I have made in the short time since magic awakened. From us you have learned of but the barest fraction of what truly lurks in the darkness, Mother. Beings unlike any you could ever imagine already have designs on my life, and the lives of my friends. Such is the price for protecting the world from their ceaseless predation. I do not need a helpless wife to serve as a target of opportunity for any creature that bears a grudge against me. A powerful wife loyal to me through bonds of love and mutual respect, who can defend our future children just as surely as I, will be of far greater worth than any noble's daughter bound by duty or greed."
Click to expand...
 
Crake said:
It's more a matter of, "Viserys, when the source of concern was family", became incredibly depressed for a non-inconsiderable length of time, which did negatively effect the quality of life of... pretty much everyone around him for the duration of that time.

Treating family roughly just for the simple sake of expedience when a little patience might do just as well is a sure-fire way to regret.

I don't actually particular like the way Snowfire has handled the wording of votes, much less the overall tone, but you can't argue that it's been effective.

She only needs to keep it together until "strange" becomes the new "normal".
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So what are we looking at here, a week, a month?

Oh dear speaking of strange, I wonder how she's going to react to Xor...
 
Snowfire said:
Ok, properly awake. A question though, @DragonParadox because I'd like to resolve this a bit. How would Viserys or Dany react to being forced to use Heart's Ease on their own mother in the (hopefully unlikely) event that they somehow made a catastrophic misstep and her mind broke? We've already seen Viserys blame himself for non-perfect results where people he has no emotional connection with are involved. How would a major failure affect him when the person involved was his own mother?

Edit: this assumes that Heart's Ease would in fact be the panacea people keep assuming it to be when we've already had proof that it's not.
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Click to shrink...
  1. He would see it as a deep personal failing with far reaching consequences for his own mental well-being. Daenerys would hate it that her brother is miserable and feel deeply sorry for Rhaella, though it would not hit her quite as hard, since her mother is effectively a stranger right now.
  2. Heart's Ease does not in fact fix everything, for an extreme example see the guy who committed suicide after being treated with it because he was able to properly recall all the horrible things that he had done/had been done to him. Heart's Ease is what you cast on the poor sod that has been tortured by demons so as to get him to vacate the torture chamber of his own volition. It does help with underlying mental trauma but the person still has to work through it. For instance Heart's Ease on Aerys could have been the first steep on the way to full recovery, but no more.
 
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