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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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Well, not that it wasn't satisfying to see Nabu be the recipient of social-fu, but it's become very obvious now IC to the rest of the League that OL has a fairly sizable grudge against him (even if they may not know the exact reason for said grudge). I expect that Diana and a few of the others may end up wanting to have a word with him after the meeting (if it hasn't stalled completely due to this last bit).

Alternately, I wonder if Paul will show a recording of this to Zatanna. Probably not, but the idea of her getting to see Nabu become upset like that is amusing in its own way.

More likely it would just make her upset in general to see her possessed father regardless of the fact.
 
Am I the only one who wanted Paul to just abruptly ask say to Nabu after his excuses "Why are you the better choice?" in a like 'justify your job' kind of way. What is Nabu doing that is qualitatively better? Or a new approach to fighting Chaos. Nabu is more powerful...sure. Although ascending to becoming an Order Lord made it so Nabu required the Helm of Fate to function which meant he needed a host whoch means dependency which means weakness. What is he doing that is out and out better than Giovanni Zatara?

But that might be too obviously an attack and Nabu dos not justify himself to chaos worshippers.
 
Slayer Anderson said:
You know, I recall reading somewhere that Nabu was part of the reason that magic didn't spread beyond a few mages and the Atlantian magical societies.

It was something about how the dispersal of magical knowledge would upset the world's order. I can't remember where I read that, but it seems very much in-character for him.
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"I'm afraid we're establishing a New World Order."

Ring, Eye of Providence.

"Oh. Why didn't you just say that earlier?"

And everything turned out better than expected.
 
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Mr Zoat said:
"How about cloning Kryptonians?" The set of Superman's jaw indicates his displeasure at the idea.
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Why did Superman bring this up? Paul said nothing about cloning Kryptonians and if Clark has been paying attention he knows Paul and Conner are friends. So cloning more Conner equivalents is not in Paul's makeup to do.

Fucking Christ, Kal-El. Bark at Luthor about that shit.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"Of course not, sir. Creating people purely to use them as weapons is grotesquely immoral, the only pure Kryptonian produced by Human science is insane and hybrids like Kon don't really have much advantage over Danner Formula augmented Humans." Though I do need to talk to him about this after the meeting. "Bringing arcane education to the surface world would also produce a pool of people with useful and currently very hard to get abilities. I know-" I look at King Orin. "-several governments have expressed an interest in doing there part to ensure that we don't ever have another Roanoke Island."

"It cannot." Thank you, Nabu. "The Witch Boy cannot both channel such great magics and evade my detection."
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You know, I think I figured out what Nabu's problem is.

He LIKES being the only one at the big boys table with magic, the only real archmagus who the good guys can turn to.
He likes feeling important, and Klarion's existence means he's needed as a counterweight.
Change might or might not be Orderly, but it definitely threatens his position as the most powerful and knowledgeable spellworker on Earth 16; the Wizard doesn't count.

Call it narcissism, or jealousy or greed. Depending on how you tilt your head, all fit.

It might even explain his refusal to release Zatara, who is the only other top-tier mage who is guaranteed a seat at the big boys table.
And it makes one wonder if he's ever really tried to pin down Klarion, as opposed to thwarting him and letting him flee until next time.

Of course, OL just kinda tipped his hand here.
Everything he said is logical, but there's no way people will miss he was baiting him.
Especially with Manhunter in the room.
 
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hance1986 said:
Why did Superman bring this up? Paul said nothing about cloning Kryptonians and if Clark has been paying attention he knows Paul and Conner are friends. So cloning more Conner equivalents is not in Paul's makeup to do.

Fucking Christ, Kal-El. Bark at Luthor about that shit.
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I saw it as something he logically knows won't happen, but emotionally fears it happening again so he grit his teeth and threw out the idea just to further confirm to himself what he already knows.

Kinda like when someone has a fear of something that seems silly but they put it out there just to have everyone agree with them; making them feel more secure.
 
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query said:
I saw it as something he logically knows won't happen, but emotionally fears it happening again so he grit his teeth and threw out the idea just to further confirm to himself what he already knows.

Kinda like when someone has a fear of something that seems silly but they put it out there just to have everyone agree with them, making them feel more secure.
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Superman is still complaining to the wrong person about that. Plus practically, cloning Kryptonians is hard with current E-16 tech. Plus beyond that, Superman is strong, but he has certain ability ranges. Strength, flight, invulnerability, heat vision. Diversity in capability I would say is more valuable and what Paul is saying is valuable to the League.

Beyond that, how much Kryptonian DNA do any potential cloners have left to play with? Supergirl is still in the wings somewhere, and the Paragon timeline has not introduced the Kryptonian former soldier living on Earth the Renegade timeline introduced.
 
uju32 said:
You know, I think I figured out what Nabu's problem is.

He LIKES being the only one at the big boys table with magic, the only real archmagus who the good guys can turn to.
He likes feeling important, and Klarion's existence means he's needed as a counterweight.
Change might or might not be Orderly, but it definitely threatens his position as the most powerful and knowledgeable spellworker on Earth 16; the Wizard doesn't count.

Call it narcissism, or jealousy or greed. Depending on how you tilt your head, all fit.

It might even explain his refusal to release Zatara, who is the only other top-tier mage who is guaranteed a seat at the big boys table.
And it makes one wonder if he's ever really tried to pin down Klarion, as opposed to thwarting him and letting him flee until next time.

Of course, OL just kinda tipped his hand here.
Everything he said is logical, but there's no way people will miss he was baiting him.
Especially with Manhunter in the room.
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Yep. IIRC OL once noted that Nabu fears becoming obsolete.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"This is Janissary. She's a medical doctor and magic user and she's been active since nineteen ninety nine." That is to say, as long as Batman and longer than most of the others.
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This only makes sense if comic book time applies to Batman but doesn't apply to her.

Also, I would be wary of anyone calling herself Janissary. Naming yourself in a way which indicates that you approve of children of another religion being kidnapped from their parents, forcibly converted to your own religion, and used as soldiers, is something that would only be done by either a supervillain, or someone incredibly ignorant.
 
arromdee said:
This only makes sense if comic book time applies to Batman but doesn't apply to her.
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How so? Batman wasn't the first ever superhero, he was acting within an existing tradition. Turkey would have seen superheroes in action on its soil towards the end of WW2, plenty of time for locals to have picked up on the idea.
 
Mr Zoat said:
He sort of has to. The Earth needs bigger and better weapons and it needs some of them in space. His position is that as the League is a supernational entity it is free to build whatever weapons it wants to fulfil its UN mandate. Otherwise Superman violates it whenever he goes into space.

That sort of comes back to why they're on Earth in the first place.
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You know the relevant treaties are about the use of nuclear weapons right?

SALT I limits the number of strategic ballistic missile launchers.
SALT II added (it expired in 1986) more limitations to nuclear weapon delivery systems.
START I reduced (expired in 2009) the total number of nuclear warheads allowed.
START II was going to ban the use of MIRVs but never went into effect because Russia pulled out.
SORT (successor to START II) further reduced the total number of nuclear warheads allowed.
New START (Successor to START I and SORT) reduced the number of nuclear warheads allowed once again.


As you can see none of these treaties have anything to do with space or non-nuclear weapons. The only treaty I know of that's really relent, well aside from if you want to make new nukes for planetary defense, is the Outer Space Treaty which only bans the deployment of Weapons of Mass Destruction. Although the exact definition of WMD is left undefined in the treaty:
Outer Space Treaty - Article IV said:
States Parties to the Treaty undertake not to place in orbit around the earth any objects carrying nuclear weapons or any other kinds of weapons of mass destruction, install such weapons on celestial bodies, or station such weapons in outer space in any other manner.
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in fact from what I can tell there is no internationally agreed upon general definition of what qualifies as a WMD only that specific things, like say nuclear weapons, are WMDs.

So legally speaking unless the UN, or other relevant groups, has specifically ruled Superman, Kryptonians, or Superheroes in general are WMDs then there is no violation. That being said you still have the problem that most weapons systems that can take on advanced alien starships would be classified as WMDs by a reasonable person.
 
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*Mental Headscape Batman*

Batman turned his seat with slightly smug grin looking at each of the league members in turn as watched Nabu leave acting very much like a child. "So who else saw that coming because I know I did."

*Outside Batman*

If anyone blinked they might have missed the slight upturn of his lips on his stony face though it disappeared just as quickly as it appeared. He'd speak with Orange Lantern after the meeting concluded but, he would also have to issue reprimand toward Nabu not that he minded in this particular case.
 
Stroth said:
Well... yes. Lord of Order isn't just a fancy title he calls himself. It's what he is. Orderly. Precise. Unchanging.
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Also, he's been stuck on a shelf for several decades, his current host probably hates him (along with everyone else), and he doesn't seem like the type to have many friends to help him get antiquated with the modern world and the people around him. There's also the thing of him actually being stuck in the helmet (or at least needing it to interact with the world).

It would be like a several thousand year old paraplegic having to interact with the world through a robot body with a camera on top by typing in his commands on a keyboard. All the while the people on the other side are giving him odd looks, he still has to fight villains who don't have his limitations, and the robot he's piloting is constantly sending out pop-up alerts that he can't disable and honestly can't afford to click 'yes' to even if he felt like obliging it.

The second he gives up any control to his so-called 'teammates' is likely going to be the second he gets stuck in his helmet again and left forgotten on a shelf for decades just like before. It happened with his previous host.
 
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