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Also, this means that MLP exists on earth 16.

This means that Grayven's resident pony can see the future if she watches TV at the right time.
or, as ZOat pointed out, O'brien reads mission debriefs (Or teh whole ambush bug mission debrief was read to the league as a whole for laughs)

on the other hand Sunset Shimmers presence in Grayvens timeline does mean its possible Canterlot High and the precursor to EGs MIGHT be happening on Pauls earth tho.... although since Zoat won't say one way or the otehr we'd have to wait at least 1.5 years (Probably 2 or 3 considering Sunsets 'attendence' of CH) for the events of EG to happen to confirm one way or the other... or more likely a modified (WoG Sirens if they came to OL!earth would ahve been killed during the middle ages) EG2 since there is a good chance EG1 would slip under the leagues radar.... (the whole future with Nightmare moon, wellw e know parallel timelines are a thing in FiM so its not that big a roadblock to having a cannon*ish* Equestria connected to OL!Earth )

Although now I'm wondering how Mordru and Discord would react if they met on Grayven earth
 
"There was a book I read back on Earth Prime, where the patriarch of a Vampire clan exposed his children to holy symbols of every religion on his planet at a young age so they'd build up a resistance.

As I recall, that backfired pretty badly when said resistance was stripped away, and all they were left with was the ability to recognise thousands of holy symbols in everyday objects.

What about symbols of a fictional deity originally created as a hoax?

What about making something up, having her handle it, then telling her it's a holy symbol, then admitting it's not?

Would it stop repelling her after you tell her the truth?

What if you use a real holy symbol and tell her what it is, then 'admit' that you lied and it's not from a real religion?
 
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Hypothesis: Things like belief, religious devotion, association with a god's domain etc has demonstrated effects on gods and the souls of the mortals involved in this setting. Such things can create a metaphysical connection between mortals and gods, leading to everything from the god taking notice to the mortal's soul going to their domain after death.

Perhaps if the vampire doesn't know the relic is a religious one there is no metaphysical connection established, so it's effectively an inert object. But, if the vampire knows that it's a religious object and what kind, a metaphysical connection is established; and being a vampire the effect is that they are driven away or harmed.

As for why it has that effect, it could be everything from "the gods hate vampires" to some kind of metaphysical short circuit between the magical nature of vampires and that of divine magical energies. Given that OL has contact with gods he might try asking them, they might well know either way.

What about symbols of a fictional deity originally created as a hoax?
Given that fictional entities are or can become real in this setting, and it's a fictional setting in the first place it's kind of questionable how much if any innate distinction there is between a "real god" and a "fictional god". You might well make up a fake god and have it show up anyway."


"OL, what the heck is that?! It flies, it's got all those stringy tentacles, meaty lumps, giant eyes and that red goop everywhere. It looks like some bizarre kind of, of flying spaghetti monster."

"...Um. No idea, never heard of such a thing."

"DECEIVER AND BLASPHEMER! THOU SHALT BE TOUCHED BY MY NOODLY APPENDAGES!"
 
"There was a book I read back on Earth Prime, where the patriarch of a Vampire clan exposed his children to holy symbols of every religion on his planet at a young age so they'd build up a resistance.
As I recall, that backfired pretty badly when said resistance was stripped away, and all they were left with was the ability to recognise thousands of holy symbols in everyday objects.
What is the title of the book though?
 
It might be interesting to experiment with holy symbols and a blindfolded vampire. If they can't see it and aren't told that it's there does it still work?
 
It might be interesting to experiment with holy symbols and a blindfolded vampire. If they can't see it and aren't told that it's there does it still work?

Well, given that they need to recognise it to work, then them not being aware that you are holding it would probably mean it has no effect.
Unless they knew it was there (or were told it was there) but couldn't actually confirm that themselves.

Which leads to blindfolding a vampire and telling them you have a cross, when you actually don't. To see how they react.
 
Well, given that they need to recognise it to work, then them not being aware that you are holding it would probably mean it has no effect.
Unless they knew it was there (or were told it was there) but couldn't actually confirm that themselves.

Which leads to blindfolding a vampire and telling them you have a cross, when you actually don't. To see how they react.
And then double-blind it, so both the vampire and the believer think there's a holy symbol, but it's actually randomised, and not even the experiment's controller knows which while it's being conducted.

Science is important.
 
Soo, what about those religions that regard the moon and sun as holy symbols?

Vampires already can't handle sunlight. Telling them that the moon is also holy (or that moonlight is just reflected sunlight) would probably significantly lower their quality-of-life.

I'm assuming that (like in discworld) the whole effect is based on Belief. If a vampire believes that they should be burned by holy symbols, then they will be. If a vampire believes that they can't cross running water, then they can't.

It's not holy power or anything of the like, just a series of behavioural compulsions. Well, that said, this theory falls apart if you press a cross against a vampire and they start to sizzle.

And then double-blind it, so both the vampire and the believer think there's a holy symbol

In my example the believer and the controller are the same person. Partially because you can't believe in a holy-symbol you've never heard of.
Besides, me pretending something is a holy symbol when I know it isn't would clue be into whether it's the vampires belief that matters, or my own.

Something tells me these experiments wouldn't get past the ethical reviewboard though.
 
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Perhaps if the vampire doesn't know the relic is a religious one there is no metaphysical connection established, so it's effectively an inert object. But, if the vampire knows that it's a religious object and what kind, a metaphysical connection is established; and being a vampire the effect is that they are driven away or harmed.
My hypothesis is that holy objects are like mystical carcinogens to vampires, objects that cause large long-term harm but aren't obvious about it. Assuming vampirism was designed instead of evolved, the designer put in a strong psychological aversion to any objects the vampire thinks is holy, because of the damage that can be done but that isn't noticed. Think of how people avoid anything that might cause cancer, but humans have no in built detection system for cancer causing materials/effects.

So vampires avoid any object they know is holy as a safeguard, even if the object isn't, because they have no way to tell. If the object is holy but the vampire doesn't know it, it still causes damage.
 
Vampires already can't handle sunlight. Telling them that the moon is also holy (or that moonlight is just reflected sunlight) would probably significantly lower their quality-of-life.

I'm assuming that (like in discworld) the whole effect is based on Belief. If a vampire believes that they should be burned by holy symbols, then they will be. If a vampire believes that they can't cross running water, then they can't.

It's not holy power or anything of the like, just a series of behavioural compulsions. Well, that said, this theory falls apart if you press a cross against a vampire and they start to sizzle.

I dunno. You could argue that part of the vampiric package is an instinctual control over your own body. Subconsciously causing yourself to burn when touching a cross because that's what you expect to happen would make sense if that were the case.

Of course, then that begs the question of how those expectations got into the minds of the first vampires.
 
Vampires already can't handle sunlight. Telling them that the moon is also holy (or that moonlight is just reflected sunlight) would probably significantly lower their quality-of-life.
I rather liked Dracula's theory in the Saberhagen vampire stories, that vampires actually need something in sunlight, sort of like a vitamin, but direct sunlight is too much and overloads them. Moonlight doesn't because it's so much weaker.
 
In my example the believer and the controller are the same person. Partially because you can't believe in a holy-symbol you've never heard of.
Besides, me pretending something is a holy symbol when I know it isn't would clue be into whether it's the vampires belief that matters, or my own.

Something tells me these experiments wouldn't get past the ethical reviewboard though.
I was thinking a card or block with the symbol on one side?

I rather liked Dracula's theory in the Saberhagen vampire stories, that vampires actually need something in sunlight, sort of like a vitamin, but direct sunlight is too much and overloads them. Moonlight doesn't because it's so much weaker.
Vampires are then most active during the full moon. If my urban fantasy and horror reading is accurate, this suggests that werewolves evolved to hunt vampires during the times they would be most active, and remain dormant the rest of the month to avoid suspicion.

Evolved, were created, whatever
 
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9th April
09:57 GMT -5


Guy raises his eyebrows slightly, his arms folded defensively across his chest as he stands next to the mountain training area's zeta tubes. "What? You not bringin' a clipboard?"

I shake my head as I walk towards him. "I've got an eidetic memory. Once I've done the research it just sits in my head for as long as I'm wearing the ring." I hold up my left hand slightly… "Do you think it would be better if I left John's.. other ring here?"

Guy thinks about it for about half a second. "Ahhh, wouldn't worry about it. You always wear it durin' our training sessions and he's never said anythin'."

"I just thought… This is a more formal thing, everyone's going to be looking at me and seeing two rings..?" He shakes his head. "Okay, you're probably right."

I walk past him into zeta tube aper-. "Ow." I whip my head around, looking at Guy accusingly. "What was that for?"

He doesn't look even slightly guilty. "Somebody convinced Wondy t' stop wearing a swim suit."

"Do that again and I'll convince Black Canary to stop wearing tights."

"Eh." He shrugs nonchalantly. "That's Ollie's problem."

I frown. "Wait. Are you trying to tell me that you're actually interested in-?"

"No, no, nothing like that. I'm just saying there's a difference between checkin' out someone who's not with anyone and someone who is. Oh, hey, how'd that thing with that Vampire chick go?"

Nice subject change there, Guy. "Interesting. I handed a blood sample from her over to one of Sephtian's alchemy colleagues for a magic spectral analysis."

"Plannin' on turnin' us all into Vampires?"

"No. To be honest, even ignoring the sire's mind control ability it's too inferior to the Danner Formula for me to recommend it. You know, there was one funny thing about it. Vampires can't tolerate holy symbols, right?"

"Yeah?"

"There was a book I read back on Earth Prime, where the patriarch of a Vampire clan exposed his children to holy symbols of every religion on his planet at a young age so they'd build up a resistance. When I tried exposing Ms Barr-" Not Ms Briggs. She was quite insistent on the subject of not using her ex-husband's name post divorce. "-to religious icons, they didn't work if she didn't know what they were, but as soon as I explained them, she couldn't tolerate them."

He blinks. "Whow. Really?"

"Yep. By the end of it she couldn't even look at these rings because of the sigils on them."

"So… What, it's not God tellin' 'em t' get lost?"

"No, no, not at all. It appears to be innate to the Vampirism itself. The best idea I can come up with is it's some sort of built in warning mechanism, so the Vampire knows not to get into a fight it can't win. Or… It could be anything, really. She was actually getting a bit weirded out by it-"

The zeta tube chimes and we start walking forwards.

"-by the time we stopped."

"Can't you just ask-"

"Recognised, Green Lantern, one seven, Orange Lantern, B zero six."

9th April
16:00 GMT +1


"-whoever it was turned her into one?"

"No, Batman destroyed hoh goodness me." I stare stunned at Nightmare Moo-. Wait a second. I narrow my left eye as the chuckles from the Justice League's meeting table reaches me. "Most amusing, sir, but you don't desire the same things she did."

Mister O'Brian shifts his head back into its normal shape, a neck about a metre long extending from Nightmare Moon's shoulders. He keeps the horn in the middle of his forehead as he grins down at me. "Not megalomaniacal enough for yah? Or do I need to work on my nicker?"

"Nightmare Moon was a mare." I walk past him in the direction of the table. "Put some clothes on, man."

There's another round of chuckles from the table as Mister O'Brian bends his neck around so that he can look at his really? Guy pats Mister O'Brian on the withers as he follows me towards the League's meeting table. Full house as far as League members go, Batman, Mister Kent and Diana at the head of the table with the others spread around the 'U'. Two empty seats, and those are quickly filled as Guy transitions -giving Jordan a smug grin as he settles into place- and Mister O'Brian extends his legs and strides past me on tiptoes.

"Good afternoon, sirs."

Mister Queen nods at me with a smile. "Got our report cards, teach?"

"Yes sir. However, I thought-" I come to a halt at the opposite end of the 'U' from Batman. "-it might be helpful if I explained the grading system first."

"For those not aware of why Orange Lantern is here-" I come to parade rest as Batman starts talking. "-I asked him to conduct a review of League performance, both of individual members and the organisation as a whole. This is not intended to single anyone out as underperforming, but rather to guide us as we work to improve our effectiveness in the future."

Mister Kent glances at him. I suppose that was a slightly 'management speak' way of putting it, but Bat-. But Bruce Wayne is a business owner. The full attention of the Justice League is on me now. I used to hate this sort of thing. If I'd been asked about delivering this sort of speech before I came to Earth 16 I'd have said that I'd have been a stuttering mess. Either that or cracking up at the daft costumes. But now? I'm fine. Even Nabu being here isn't bothering me.

Well.

Much.

"Orange Lantern, you may begin."

"Thank you, Batman." I take a second to make eye contact with the League members. "The first step in the process of assessing League performance was working out what the League is actually for. The League's internal documentation never expressly states a purpose, Superman's.. speech just prior to New Year not withstanding. The nearest thing to a written mission is your United Nations Charter, which assigns you four main areas of responsibility. Firstly, assisting conventional authorities in crime fighting. This includes gathering evidence, pursuing leads, locating the criminals, apprehending them and securing a conviction. Secondly, dealing with supervillain attacks. Though there is some overlap, supervillains do sometimes just stride into a place and start smashing things. While conventional law enforcement is perfectly capable of dealing with conventional crime-" My eyes alight on Batman. "-when they're not being paid off by it, police cannot presently deal with high powered supervillains. The alternative to people like yourselves would be the military and I don't think anyone really wants their home cities blown up by a missile strike."

Mister Kent nods. "There wouldn't be much of Metropolis left by now if General Hardcastle has his way."

"Perhaps worse is that for the really tough ones, it wouldn't necessarily work. Black Adam took several anti-tank missiles to the chest and just laughed it off, and there are any number of exotic techniques for avoiding conventional weapons." I wait a moment before carrying on. "Thirdly, defending the planet against external threats. We're fortunate enough to live in a relatively peaceful area of space, but if anything does come here there isn't much other than the League which can fight it." I smile. "For the purpose of my study I used a slightly more realistic example than a fictional species-" My eyes alight on Mister J'onzz. "-that would increase their number to overcome any obstacle. I'll give you all a.. written copy at the end, but I used the examples of Gordanian pirates and Khundian and Thanagarian privateers."

Ms Thal glares at me. "Thanagar doesn't have privateers. And even if we did, we wouldn't send them anywhere near Earth."

"True, but the law of the Thanagarian Empire allows private corporations to own warships up to battle cruiser size and would -for example- allow a Thanagarian mining corporation to strip mine every part of this system except for Mars and Earth quite legally."

"It wouldn't happen. There are safeguards-."

"Would you like me to show you the relevant case studies?" For a moment it looks like she wants to continue the argument, then she sits back. "Fourthly, responding to natural disasters, minimising damage while it's ongoing and helping with the recovery afterwards. In addition to physically carrying out those four core aims, I had to assess the organisational skills and infrastructure which allowed you to achieve them within a reasonable time span. So, in summary, here's how I rate you currently as individuals."

And up come the top trumps holograms.
Above all I am reminded of good old Benji from the Mummy. That man would be *so* completely immune to vampires, forever and ever and ever, it's not even funny.
 
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