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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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stsword said:
Mainstream continuity? My understanding is that picture is from the comics for the Injustice the Regime video game, where Green Arrow can go toe to toe with Superman thanks to nanites.

Now if you want mainsteam continuity, here's Wonder Woman being shot by Devastation in the New Earth continuity-


Then here's an admission straight from the horse's mouth-



Now later in New Earth continuity Wonder Woman's durability was enhanced, because she died, achieved apotheosis, and was then exiled back to earth for the crime of interfering too much, but apparently Zeus wasn't so annoyed that he took away her Olympian invulnerability that doesn't care about things like bullets.

However, I think it's safe to say that if Wonder Woman had died and become the goddess of truth, it would have been mentioned, so while of course Zoat can do whatever he wants, there's no reason to believe that Wonder Woman is bullet proof, since no, that is not a default assumption of the character, and if that's the case in Prime Earth, well, Zoat doesn't care about Prime earth continuity.
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So, now we're arguing about which canon is the canonest?

Across a nested stack of multiverses whose sole consistent law is its trademark?
 
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Coda said:
That's not unreasonable when you're arguing about which canon is the canonest within the context of a specific canon.
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Wouldn't the answer to that just be YJ and/or Word of Zoat for supplementary materials though?

Now I feel like I should re-read WTR again to see if WW's state re: invinkability is established previously, because I kinda feel like it was but I'm not remembering where...
 
To be logically consistent then, her weakness must be a form of attack that unenchanted orichalcum can defend against. Whatever this form of attack is, tank shells do not meet the requirements to defeat that. (Alternatively, OL was simply wrong about Diana-16.)

A data point that I don't know what to do with: Grayven gave her Apokoliptian armor that can be worn over her existing armor, thus allowing her to benefit from the Olympian defenses she already had as well as whatever things that New Gods feel a need to defend against that their normal resilience doesn't handle.
 
Coda said:
To my recollection, it is strongly implied that WW isn't invulnerable, because it is implied that her armor actually does something. Otherwise OL wouldn't even be trying to improve upon it.
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she's not completely invincible, but she is incredibly durable. She just tends to get called in to deal with things that can deal out the kind of damage that can hurt her, hence she wears armor.
 
Coda said:
A data point that I don't know what to do with: Grayven gave her Apokoliptian armor that can be worn over her existing armor, thus allowing her to benefit from the Olympian defenses she already had as well as whatever things that New Gods feel a need to defend against that their normal resilience doesn't handle.
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Well even if the Apokoliptian armor is only as durable as her skin, attacks that would have hurt her would simply damage the armor instead. That's still pretty useful.
 
Empiricist2 said:
Well even if the Apokoliptian armor is only as durable as her skin, attacks that would have hurt her would simply damage the armor instead. That's still pretty useful.
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That's a very good point, although it would require that the armor is at least as durable as her skin.

I just feel like New Gods would develop armor that would protect against things that New Gods need protection against.
 
moralrelativity said:
I thought you'd invented a new word but Squirt the Octopus beat you to it.
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It actually dates back to a mis(?)print in a copy of the manual for an NES cartridge I had...one of those combined game carts that had Super Mario Bros, Duck Hunt and...something else, can't remember what it was now. Sporting thing. Anyway, in the manual for SMB, it described the condition immediately after the player took a hit and lost their powerups as 'invinkability' (think the modern term is 'mercy frames').

We were never really sure how intentional that was or wasn't as a contrast to 'invincibility' from the stars.

This probably isn't terribly relevant to anything unless OL winds up in a crossover with the Mushroom Kingdom, but hey, it's a big multiverse. You never know.
 
I always called it "blink immunity" but a Google search suggests that this is fairly rare, and "blink invulnerability" and "blink invincibility" are relatively rare as well. "Mercy invincibility" seems to get hits mostly because of TVTropes.

I'm going to go binge through Kid Radd to try to remember what they called it there.
 
Coda said:
I always called it "blink immunity" but a Google search suggests that this is fairly rare, and "blink invulnerability" and "blink invincibility" are relatively rare as well. "Mercy invincibility" seems to get hits mostly because of TVTropes.

I'm going to go binge through Kid Radd to try to remember what they called it there.
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Invincibility frames or I-frames is the most common usage I've heard.
Coda said:
That's a very good point, although it would require that the armor is at least as durable as her skin.
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The way I think it works is this: you have the baseline person, not including the effects of their soul. This is their base durability. Cut a piece off and it's the same as the whole person. When the souls of New Gods or those like them comes in to play, it adds another layer of durability over top of their existing durability, making them as durable as baseline+soul. If you cut their arm off however, the soul effect stops for the arm and it's only as durable as the baseline person is. New God armor is special in that in addition to being really good by itself, it can also use the divine soul of the wearer to reinforce itself, making it as durable as soul+really good armor. Armor+soul is much tougher than skin+soul. New Gods like Grayven can be really durable even without soul effects taken into account, and also have an aspect of their soul be specialized for some level of conceptual defence, further increasing durability.

This is also basically how I think that Kon and his armor work, with the divine soul part replaced with nuclear force manipulation forcefields. Not totally sure about the flight part though.
 
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Fool's Canon (part 10)
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    • 1st April
    20:07 GMT -5

    "Who?"

    Neither Holly nor Karon appear to recognise the name. I turn my head to the right to see if Jade knows it, but she just shakes her head.

    "Richard Swift. The Shade?" Still nothing. "He took over from Jack Knight -Starman- as superhero-in-residence of Opal City in Maryland… Um, about twenty years ago?"

    Holly makes a little shrug, her lips pursed. "So why'd it matter that he was strong enough to hurt Wonder Woman?"

    Jade shifts position a little, leaning into the settee's side cushion. "Because Wonder Woman's one of the toughest people on the planet."

    "I've seen her on TV. She uses those bracelet things to block bullets. If she's so tough, why doesn't she just ignore them like Superman does?"

    "A few reasons. Firstly, if she didn't they might go anywhere. There have been a few incidents where bullets deflecting off Superman have hit and injured people."

    Karon blinks in surprise. "Really?"

    I nod. "Doesn't get a lot of news coverage, apart from one time early on in his career when someone sued him over it, but yes. He doesn't have super tough skin, he has a sort of skin tight biological force field, so if you hit it from the right angle it doesn't necessarily remove much momentum from the bullet. Secondly-."

    "You mean-." Jade looks at me in disbelief. "-Wonder Woman can judge bullet trajectories fast enough to deflect them precisely?"

    "Well… She has been doing this for seventy years. And the bracers are enchanted. But, yes, most of the time. Um, anyway, the other reason is because you never know when someone's going to fire something at you that actually can hurt you. Someone uses something that doesn't look threatening-" I turn my head to look directly at Jade. "-like poisoned lipstick-" She rolls her eyes. "-and you can end up looking like a right idiot."

    "You-?" Holly smiles slightly as she waves her right forefinger at us. "You kissed him.. when you had poison lipstick on?"

    I nod at her. "It was so romantic."

    Jade nods, sitting up then leaning into my side. "Then he nearly choked me to death."

    I smile affectionately at her. "Oh, you totally had that coming."

    "Aaaand now it's just like Christmas at my parents' house." Jade and I both look at Karon in horror. "Wha-?" She blinks, then rolls her eyes. "I was joking, guys. Jeez. My parents never get that bad."

    "And.. I'm.. glad to hear it."

    "They just do all this weird passive-aggressive stuff. Eh." There's a moment of silence. "Ah, Wonder Woman blocking bullets?"

    "Um, yes. Anyway, Wonder Woman is very resilient."

    Holly leans forwards slightly. "If they're both superheroes, why'd they fight?"

    "Superheroes fight each other in training all the time. Wonder Woman usually works out with Superman or Big Barda-."

    Holly snorts in surprise. "There's a guy who picked 'Big Barda' as his superhero name?"

    "Her name's Barda and she's just over seven feet tall."

    "Okay, Big Barda it is."

    "The Shade used to be a thief. He fought the Justice Society on a number of occasions. His particular ability… He had a cane which appeared to grant him the ability to manipulate shadows, including the ability to make them have actual weight behind them and to teleport between them. What they didn't know was that he was sandbagging them. He was actually much more powerful than he pretended to be. He doesn't need a cane at all, he can control shadows at will and he can control a far greater mass of them than he ever did against the Justice Society."

    Jade frowns. "Why did he do that?"

    "He didn't need the money. He's about a hundred and eighty years old and.. when he was younger, something happened to turn him into some sort of eldritch shadow creature. He competed against the Justice Society because he found it entertaining, but he realised that if he fought them at full power he'd kill them and his fun would end. So he didn't. He faked weaknesses he didn't really have and when they won, he dipped his hat and let them." I lean back slightly. "I told Diana that last year, when this nutter called Nylor Truggs attacked a group of us with a thing called an 'Enemy of All' and I called in the Shade to get rid of it. She didn't quite believe me, but today she had to go to Opal for something and decided to check."

    Holly looks incredulous. "She asked him to try to hurt her?"

    "She asked for a display of his real power. Things.. escalated. See, Diana's.. a lovely woman, but when she was younger she had quite a temper on her, and she was a lot more prideful than she is now. Knowing that he was basically taking the piss out of her younger self.. sort of… Caused her to have a relapse. Apparently he just found the whole thing rather funny."

    "She gunna be alright?"

    "Oh yes, she'll be fine in a few days. Diana heals very quickly from mundane injuries, however they were caused."

    "So, ah…" Karon nods at the television playing silently in the background. "What's with her new look?"

    "Diana's normal armour was made by Hephaestus. And you may have noticed, but it's basically a swimming costume."

    Holly smirks. "You bet I noticed."

    "Right, well, we can't equal Hephaestus' work quite yet, but Io, Ted Kord and this Atlantean guy I know are working on enchanted armour that will actually cover her everywhere. There's even a helmet. The fact it covers up the burns on her arms is just a nice bonus."

    Holly looks up at the ceiling. "So… Wonder Woman."

    "What about her?" Holly's grinning and her eyebrows are raised. Karon glances at her then rolls her eyes. Oh. "Diana grew up in a homonormative society but I have no idea whether she prefers men, women, neither or both. To the best of my knowledge and the knowledge of those Amazons I've asked, she's never been in a serious romantic relationship with anyone."

    "Oh." She nods. "That explains it."

    "Explains what?" Jade lets out a quiet snort and Karon giggles.

    "You holding out for Wonder Woman?"

    "O-? No." I shake my head. "No, that… N-. No. I mean, she's my best friend's mother." Sniggers all around. "And even if this is a work of fiction, it's not that kind of work of fiction. Honestly, I don't think of her in that sort of way."

    "So, um…" Karon moves her right hand in a circle. "What happened to them? The.. Pony princess and the pyromaniac and the Leopard guy?"

    "I don't really know. I assume that Nightmare Moon joined the Orange Lantern Corps. Or.. will in the future. If it actually was a vision of the future and not just something… Else. I stopped being aware of what was happening to Azula just after she started shouting at me. Him. The Leopard, I don't know."

    Jade shifts position so that she's kneeling on the settee, looking down at me. "And the beautiful supervillainess you rehabilitated? What happened to her?"

    Ah, heck. It's a beautiful feed line, but she's still effectively on probation. On the other hand, so is Talia and Batman's marrying her. "Well, that depends." I lean forwards slightly and purse my lips. "On what she wants to happen to her."

    She nods, smiles, then sits back down. "Good to know."

    …

    Dang.
     
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