Emerald Oracle
Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet the Force
- Location
- The Else
Oh no, it totally does. Just not because the writers and/or artists don't have talent. It's the mixing of Editorial control and market requirements that cause the big issues.
With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- texas
Good point, but if someone punches her so hard her implant fails a biologically based legionnaire would probably be in similar trouble too, barring the bricks among them.
Speaking of biological powers, I was catching up on Doom Patrol, and in series 5 Chief captured a kryptonian to duplicate his powers.
His analysis? Barring "some reproductive organs," kryptonians are absolutely identical to humans biologically.
Genetic analysis? No evident genes for kryptonian powers.
So Chief theorized that the difference between humans and kryptonians is not material, but on the energy level.
So he transferred the energy from the kryptonian to himself, becoming SuperChief.
Sounded to me like they were going for a modified form of Maggin's Photonucleic Effect, making their powers come from quantum shenanigans, similar to the Quantum Superman.
NemiTheNen
Perpetual Phone Poster
So, is Paul now safe from Assassin Bug?
- Location
- USA
Technology fails, all the time, for basically no reason (okay, yes there are reasons, but that's for the advanced class). The more complicated the device, the more often it fails. The only thing putting tech in cybernetics instead of a handheld or armor is that it is harder to access, and harder to repair. There are other benefits of cybernetics of course, but that was a terrible leap of logic on the part of the writer.
As far as SuperChief goes... It makes about as much sense as any other interpretation of kryptonians. Even on the low end interpretation, they're pretty bullshit. I think Zoat's gone with the biological side though. Even if the biology interpretation means kryptonian cells naturally tap in the forces of applied phlebotinum.
- Location
A lot of people have said this story didn't do anything. I may have missed it if someone has actually listed the things this nicely done time travel interlude has done, but to try and point out the other side of the story here's my list please feel free to correct or add to it.
- Established Mandate!Paul as Time Trapper (an addition to Checkov's armory)
- Given a plot hook for future Legion of super Hero's interaction
- Adding Braniac 5 as a Meddler to Checkov's armory
- Added Braniac 5/Super-Girl to the shipping chart
- Added the (Mandate!Paul or Paul)/Jade/Jade triad to the shipping chart if a power Girl gets pulled
- Poignantly established the existential horror Time travel is and potentially the arrogance or lack of clear morality there can be when discussing correcting a timeline.
- It's not "Thou shalt not violate causality within my historic light cone. Or else." But Zoat's kicked off an interesting blue and orange morality discussion or at least given us great material for one. What worth is a life that was never lived? Does Hitler, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki never happening make it a better word or a totalitarian state under the Empruh and Nabu?
weredrago2
"Cowabunga, Shadow the Hedgehog..."
- Location
- Florida
All of this LOSH talk had me wondering if there would be an Alt-Paul for the 2006 Legion of Super-Heroes cartoon. I had to look up every "item" in the DC Database, but I eventually stumbled upon the Bio-Ring given to Pre-Crisis Lana Lang by aliens. It let her shapeshift and take on the traits of various bugs as Insect Queen. It's no power ring, but it was that or Kawolo's Magic Ring if I wanted to keep the theme.
Since Insect Queen was allowed into the Legion as a reserve member, it looks like they can't take on tech-based heroes as full members, but they be reserve members if they prove themselves.
Since Insect Queen was allowed into the Legion as a reserve member, it looks like they can't take on tech-based heroes as full members, but they be reserve members if they prove themselves.
- Location
- texas
True, it isn't a power ring, but I'm not sure you realize how powerful the bio-ring is.
It's not limited to Earth insects and arachnids. Kryptonian bugs were shown to be available transformations, for example.
DBDrake
Totaly A Dragon
There appears to be some sort of ontological inertia to the main timeline, so that implies ??? something in this fic, but the interesting thing about time travel is that it can always have been this way, but only for the last X seconds.
That's why multiple worlds interpretation makes so much sense; because how could it be any other way? How could there be possible futures floating around disconnected causally from their parent pasts?
re. Mr Zoat: This arc was perfectly satisfying to me, but it could come off as a bit of a shaggy dog if it aint your thing.
Embattled (supplementary, SI option)
- Location
- Hampden Park
Embattled
23rd October
21:03 GMT -5
There's a noticeably different feel to the audience than last time I was on Ms Manning's show. For one thing, there aren't any empty seats in the audience. For another, she looks much less happy with me. To an actual journalist, the fact that I've been uncharacteristically unhelpful to anyone asking me questions must have been a bit obvious; I mean, even Dana worked it out.
Or.. maybe it's because I went on Ms Grant's show first.
But, now is the time to be totally-
"Orange Lantern, my first question is fairly obvious. There's been a lot of speculation online and in the press about exactly what sort of fruit you might have stolen to draw an angel's attention. The obvious possibility is that you stole an apple from the Garden of Eden-"
-honest.
"-and unlikely as that-"
I raise my right hand slightly. "Ah?"
"-seems…" She raises her eyebrows.
"Yes, that's exactly where I took it from." There's a sharp intake of breath from the audience. And a lot fewer smiles. "Though I should point out that they're not apples. They're pomegranates. I entered the Garden of Eden uninvited and stole a fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. I did this with the intention of feeding it to a demon in an attempt to give her the ability to make moral decisions rather than act in a purely malevolent way."
"Ah-" She blinks, but swiftly recovers "-and did it work?"
"It.. appears to have done so. Testing is in the early stages, and we don't really have anything to compare it to. The subject is.. more than a little traumatised." I shrug. "She only just gained the capacity to feel guilt and she's got a lot to feel-"
"God damn you!" / "You call yourself a hero?!"
"-guilty about."
"That angel should of burned you!"
Ms Manning turns towards the audience as an increasing number rise to their feet, shouting. "Please. I understand-."
"-lesbian whores like Sodom and Gomorrah!"
"I understand that you're upset, but-."
The shouting continues, and Ms Manning's eyes dart towards the bouncers. I glance down, shaking my head slightly. Then I generate a construct above our heads showing the words 'You have questions. I can't answer them if you keep shouting over me. Silencing in 5.'
Some quieten down, and some of them even sit back down. The rest… I suppose that 'heretic scum' is fair enough, and I am mildly impressed that they knew the word 'heretic', but… Gosh, I hadn't realised that people were still prepared to say things like that about Themyscira.
But the 5 ticks down to 1, and I generate sound deadening constructs on either side of the seating area and activate them. The noise drops off immediately, then dies almost completely as I fine tune the area effect.
"I'm sorry about that. Feel free to shout at me on your own time, but stop ruining it for everyone else. But if I-" I glance at Ms Manning. "-can treat some of those as actual questions?"
"You may as well."
"O-kay. You, madam." I point the first respondent out. "As I've repeatedly stated, I'm a Hellenist. So… Jehovah's opinion on the subject doesn't matter to me. I have physically entered Erebos while still alive. I know where my soul is going, and I don't regard the Silver City as the highest authority on morality. It is quite possible that if I went before the angels for judgement that I would indeed be damned. Fortunately, that will never happen."
"In answer to you sir-" The second respondent. "-while I have used the term 'superhero' to describe myself, I use it in the sense of being an altruistic costumed vigilante, not in the sense of being someone everyone should admire. And yes, while I did steal the fruit, I was giving it to someone else for their benefit and so it was an act of altruism. I quite understand if you think I should have acted differently; I just disagree."
I turn towards the third shouter. "Zauriel didn't appear interested in harming anyone who wasn't literally a demon. He was shocked and confused at what I'd done, yes, but at no point did he become angry. Please understand that 'turning the other cheek' and 'letting he who is without sin cast the first stone' weren't metaphors, but literal instructions on how Christians should conduct themselves. Demanding that holy agents kill someone is something which you are not supposed to do. What you're supposed to do is what Zauriel tried to do, which was gently and rationally persuade me that I have sinned and try and get me to change my ways. And I'm going to be more inclined to listen to him and to everyone who didn't start shouting at me than I am to you."
"I'm afraid the shouting got a little blurred together-" Just about everyone has sat back down, though a red-faced hardcore are trying to shout over the suppression system. "-but if I can address your… Point, madam. Themyscira doesn't exactly have a currency any longer. They used to, but the island has finite amounts of metal and… Well, for various reasons it just didn't make sense to.. keep using it. As such, there isn't any prostitution, because there isn't any point in making an exchange. And while there are residents who are.. open minded about sex, at this point just about everyone has settled down into stable relationships. Your description of them as 'lesbian' is inaccurate, as only a few have ever spent any time on Lesbos. Though obviously their sexual and romantic relations are almost exclusively with other women."
"And the angel who murdered the populations of Sodom and Gomorrah has been dealt with." I turn back to Ms Manning. "I'm sorry. Please carry on."
She takes a moment before carrying on. "I'm sure a lot of our viewers at home will be thinking that what you've said in.. previous interviews was somewhat misleading. The pomegranate you stole was a fruit, but it's also quite a bit more than that."
"Yes, I was deliberately misleading everyone."
"Why? You were perfectly happy to tell us now. What changed in the past few days?"
"No, this.. was always planned. I wanted people to have time to think about.. under what circumstances they'd consider it legitimate to steal a fruit, without prejudging the issue because it was their fruit."
"The fruit belonged to God."
"Yes, and I've never disputed the fact that I stole it. But as I see it… You can't steal from an omnipotent, omniscient being who wants to stop you, simply because they know and you can't overpower them. So -assuming Jehovah has those characteristics- either he wanted me to do it or flat out didn't care. Because any other position would have resulted in it not happening."
"What I meant was that you're treating stealing from God the same as stealing from anyone else."
"No, I'm treating it far less seriously. Jehovah is the only being who might be considered to own things who can effortlessly replace any of them. Therefore, stealing from him is less significant than stealing from someone who has to work for it."
"If you're confessing to theft, should we hold you here until the police arrive?"
"Um. There are questions to which I'll plead the fifth, but I don't mind being questioned by the police. The problem is, no complaint has been made to the police and very few people know to which police force such a complaint should be made. As such, unless an angel makes a complaint or I'm called to appear before a panel of archangels, it's unlikely that any proceedings could be initiated."
"What police force should the complaint be made to?"
"That's not entirely clear." Maybe the Law Enforcement Force of the Islamic Republic of Iran, but a reasonable argument could be made that it's extraterritorial. They might be able to get me on transporting stolen goods, though. "And I can't tell anyone without revealing how I got into Eden."
"What's wrong with that? If it's fine for you to go there, why shouldn't.. I.. have that opportunity?"
"Because while one person fishing in a lake isn't a problem, a thousand people doing it kills all of the fish. I had a good, mission-related reason for going there and I spent no more time there than I had to. Why do you want to go?"
23rd October
21:03 GMT -5
There's a noticeably different feel to the audience than last time I was on Ms Manning's show. For one thing, there aren't any empty seats in the audience. For another, she looks much less happy with me. To an actual journalist, the fact that I've been uncharacteristically unhelpful to anyone asking me questions must have been a bit obvious; I mean, even Dana worked it out.
Or.. maybe it's because I went on Ms Grant's show first.
But, now is the time to be totally-
"Orange Lantern, my first question is fairly obvious. There's been a lot of speculation online and in the press about exactly what sort of fruit you might have stolen to draw an angel's attention. The obvious possibility is that you stole an apple from the Garden of Eden-"
-honest.
"-and unlikely as that-"
I raise my right hand slightly. "Ah?"
"-seems…" She raises her eyebrows.
"Yes, that's exactly where I took it from." There's a sharp intake of breath from the audience. And a lot fewer smiles. "Though I should point out that they're not apples. They're pomegranates. I entered the Garden of Eden uninvited and stole a fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. I did this with the intention of feeding it to a demon in an attempt to give her the ability to make moral decisions rather than act in a purely malevolent way."
"Ah-" She blinks, but swiftly recovers "-and did it work?"
"It.. appears to have done so. Testing is in the early stages, and we don't really have anything to compare it to. The subject is.. more than a little traumatised." I shrug. "She only just gained the capacity to feel guilt and she's got a lot to feel-"
"God damn you!" / "You call yourself a hero?!"
"-guilty about."
"That angel should of burned you!"
Ms Manning turns towards the audience as an increasing number rise to their feet, shouting. "Please. I understand-."
"-lesbian whores like Sodom and Gomorrah!"
"I understand that you're upset, but-."
The shouting continues, and Ms Manning's eyes dart towards the bouncers. I glance down, shaking my head slightly. Then I generate a construct above our heads showing the words 'You have questions. I can't answer them if you keep shouting over me. Silencing in 5.'
Some quieten down, and some of them even sit back down. The rest… I suppose that 'heretic scum' is fair enough, and I am mildly impressed that they knew the word 'heretic', but… Gosh, I hadn't realised that people were still prepared to say things like that about Themyscira.
But the 5 ticks down to 1, and I generate sound deadening constructs on either side of the seating area and activate them. The noise drops off immediately, then dies almost completely as I fine tune the area effect.
"I'm sorry about that. Feel free to shout at me on your own time, but stop ruining it for everyone else. But if I-" I glance at Ms Manning. "-can treat some of those as actual questions?"
"You may as well."
"O-kay. You, madam." I point the first respondent out. "As I've repeatedly stated, I'm a Hellenist. So… Jehovah's opinion on the subject doesn't matter to me. I have physically entered Erebos while still alive. I know where my soul is going, and I don't regard the Silver City as the highest authority on morality. It is quite possible that if I went before the angels for judgement that I would indeed be damned. Fortunately, that will never happen."
"In answer to you sir-" The second respondent. "-while I have used the term 'superhero' to describe myself, I use it in the sense of being an altruistic costumed vigilante, not in the sense of being someone everyone should admire. And yes, while I did steal the fruit, I was giving it to someone else for their benefit and so it was an act of altruism. I quite understand if you think I should have acted differently; I just disagree."
I turn towards the third shouter. "Zauriel didn't appear interested in harming anyone who wasn't literally a demon. He was shocked and confused at what I'd done, yes, but at no point did he become angry. Please understand that 'turning the other cheek' and 'letting he who is without sin cast the first stone' weren't metaphors, but literal instructions on how Christians should conduct themselves. Demanding that holy agents kill someone is something which you are not supposed to do. What you're supposed to do is what Zauriel tried to do, which was gently and rationally persuade me that I have sinned and try and get me to change my ways. And I'm going to be more inclined to listen to him and to everyone who didn't start shouting at me than I am to you."
"I'm afraid the shouting got a little blurred together-" Just about everyone has sat back down, though a red-faced hardcore are trying to shout over the suppression system. "-but if I can address your… Point, madam. Themyscira doesn't exactly have a currency any longer. They used to, but the island has finite amounts of metal and… Well, for various reasons it just didn't make sense to.. keep using it. As such, there isn't any prostitution, because there isn't any point in making an exchange. And while there are residents who are.. open minded about sex, at this point just about everyone has settled down into stable relationships. Your description of them as 'lesbian' is inaccurate, as only a few have ever spent any time on Lesbos. Though obviously their sexual and romantic relations are almost exclusively with other women."
"And the angel who murdered the populations of Sodom and Gomorrah has been dealt with." I turn back to Ms Manning. "I'm sorry. Please carry on."
She takes a moment before carrying on. "I'm sure a lot of our viewers at home will be thinking that what you've said in.. previous interviews was somewhat misleading. The pomegranate you stole was a fruit, but it's also quite a bit more than that."
"Yes, I was deliberately misleading everyone."
"Why? You were perfectly happy to tell us now. What changed in the past few days?"
"No, this.. was always planned. I wanted people to have time to think about.. under what circumstances they'd consider it legitimate to steal a fruit, without prejudging the issue because it was their fruit."
"The fruit belonged to God."
"Yes, and I've never disputed the fact that I stole it. But as I see it… You can't steal from an omnipotent, omniscient being who wants to stop you, simply because they know and you can't overpower them. So -assuming Jehovah has those characteristics- either he wanted me to do it or flat out didn't care. Because any other position would have resulted in it not happening."
"What I meant was that you're treating stealing from God the same as stealing from anyone else."
"No, I'm treating it far less seriously. Jehovah is the only being who might be considered to own things who can effortlessly replace any of them. Therefore, stealing from him is less significant than stealing from someone who has to work for it."
"If you're confessing to theft, should we hold you here until the police arrive?"
"Um. There are questions to which I'll plead the fifth, but I don't mind being questioned by the police. The problem is, no complaint has been made to the police and very few people know to which police force such a complaint should be made. As such, unless an angel makes a complaint or I'm called to appear before a panel of archangels, it's unlikely that any proceedings could be initiated."
"What police force should the complaint be made to?"
"That's not entirely clear." Maybe the Law Enforcement Force of the Islamic Republic of Iran, but a reasonable argument could be made that it's extraterritorial. They might be able to get me on transporting stolen goods, though. "And I can't tell anyone without revealing how I got into Eden."
"What's wrong with that? If it's fine for you to go there, why shouldn't.. I.. have that opportunity?"
"Because while one person fishing in a lake isn't a problem, a thousand people doing it kills all of the fish. I had a good, mission-related reason for going there and I spent no more time there than I had to. Why do you want to go?"
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Empiricist2
Let's play doctor!
- Location
- Baton Rouge
The main timeline could be something like a local minimum in terms of time energy, where any changes from that minimum are unstable and result in a spontaneous release of energy in order to get back to the most stable timeline.
GilliamYaeger
M'crazy.
Well. This is going to be a shit storm.
- Location
- Norway
I believe that should be "shouldn't".
Also, Paul is doing reasonably well, considering just what got revealed.
- Location
- Hampden Park
Thank you, corrected.
OL implied he defeated if not outright killed a biblical angel over Sodom and Gomorrah.
The shitstorm is going to be incredible.
T0PH4T
[Verified Accessory]
- Location
- United States of America
Because I want to eat some goddamn Godly Pomegranates, obviously. I'm pretty sure that asking nicely could get me one.
RichardWhereat
Feanor did nothing wrong.
- Location
- Australia
That, and the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah wasn't homosexuality, but breaking Xenia, guest rights and the laws of hospitality.
I'm pretty sure that, in a universe where said Angel was to have punished that one, the angel in question would probably have been a covert Hellenist.
General public safety concerns.
Specifically: Don't mess with angels.
They will fuck you up!
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TheLurker
Random Omnipotent Lazy-As-Fuck Being
- Location
- The space beyond the stars
Y'know, my instinctive reaction is that you're right, but I can't for the life of me think of the arguments that support WHY you're right.
RichardWhereat
Feanor did nothing wrong.
- Location
- Australia
Eh, kinda. But there are still laws about how people are to act in a civilised society, and if the people who want to go balls to the wall and skeet skeet skeet all over him for his actions outside of mortal society, do so, then they no longer deserve the protections afforded civilised people in a civilised society.
Because you subconsciously identify as Christian?
TheLurker
Random Omnipotent Lazy-As-Fuck Being
- Location
- The space beyond the stars
probably. I'm more or less agnostic by now, but I'm self aware enough to know I have behaviors left over from a relaxed christian upbringing.
- Status