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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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Vaermina said:
I think that should be "There".
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Thank you, corrected.
Enochi said:
Definitely the worst arc you have done.
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That sounds like a challenge.
LazySloth13 said:
Hey Mr. Zoat what happened to Dana Dearden? Last time she appeared was before Time Trapper sent Paragon Paul somewhere in time and she wasn't sent back in time with Paul and Truggs.

Is she still in the future or some alternate timeline?
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The Time Trapper version had no idea who she was, so just assumed that she was with the Legion. They might take her home, or she might end up joining them.
DBDrake said:
The instant anyone goes back in time, unless the universe works harry potter style where there is one timeline that is permanently consistent, everything in the future doesn't cease to exist, it never existed in the first place.
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That's Mr Weisman's preferred version of time travel. I prefer the Dragonball Z type that creates new parallel universes but doesn't let you change the past. This story uses neither.
 
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DBDrake said:
I disagree.

All those lives you talk about? They are a memory in some guys head.

The instant anyone goes back in time, unless the universe works harry potter style where there is one timeline that is permanently consistent, everything in the future doesn't cease to exist, it never existed in the first place.

It becomes one of the infinite potential futures that are in the possibility space of the present time.

Just because the present timeline now connects to different one of the infinite possibilities, doesn't mean anyone has died; people just failed to exist.

I mean, every time you make a decision or a quark spins up instead of down, a timeline fails to actualize and all those potential people don't exist. You can't say that they're dead; because to die you have to live first.
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if time travel is possible, and timelines are able to be changed without endless branches, then there aren't endless possible futures to choose from. There's the one that will happen, because it already has happened in the future, all the quarks that were going to spin up were always going to spin up, and until you time travel there is no possibility of them spinning down.
 
Mr Zoat said:
The Time Trapper version had no idea who she was, so just assumed that she was with the Legion. They might take her home, or she might end up joining them.
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I would say have Dana Dearden stick around in the future with the Legion, have her own adventures, use those superpower coins she has, basically the best road trip/adventure she has ever had, someone from the modern era getting to see amazing things.

Then if there is a future Legion future plotline, Dana can be used as a familiar face to make contact with Paragon Paul if necessary.

!

Have Dana be a future Legion agent based in the past keeping Dox and the rest of the Legion aware of new time based threats.
 
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hance1986 said:
I would say have Dana Dearden stick around in the future with the Legion, have her own adventures, use those superpower coins she has, basically the best road trip/adventure she has ever had, someone from the modern era getting to see amazing things.
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Thing is, the Legion doesn't actually let in people whose abilities are derived from artefacts.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Thing is, the Legion doesn't actually let in people whose abilities are derived from artefacts.
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Why not? How would the differences from someone who's abilities are derived from technology be enough to give a good justification for the exclusion? Both are using an outside source or medium to gain superhuman abilities.

Edit: Do they just not take in magic users, or those who's bulk of their magic power is derived from using artifacts? Or because the artifact is often times not easily replaceable unlike a lot of technology which could just be rebuilt?
 
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Nic611 said:
Why not? How would the differences from someone who's abilities are derived from technology be enough to give a good justification for the exclusion? Both are using an outside source or medium to gain superhuman abilities.

Edit: Do they just not take in magic users, or those who's bulk of their magic power is derived from using artifacts? Or because the artifact is often times not easily replaceable unlike a lot of technology which could just be rebuilt?
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The rule was established in the 1950s. Writing and plot quality was much, much lower all round back then.
 
Evil M. Lurker said:
The rule was established in the 1950s. Writing and plot quality was much, much lower all round back then.
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"You know what? Exlcuding Lanterns from our group of superheroes is a fantastic idea! Especially because the normal arguments against artifact users, that someone else can use the artifact better or that if said artifact breaks they're useless forever, don't apply."
 
Empiricist2 said:
"You know what? Excluding Lanterns from our group of superheroes is a fantastic idea! Especially because the normal arguments against artifact users, that someone else can use the artifact better or that if said artifact breaks they're useless forever, don't apply."
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As I understand it, the Lantern Corps doesn't exist in their era so it isn't a problem.
 
TheLastOne said:
We don't actually know if any energy will do or the conversion cost, or how large the harvest is from pruning timelines.
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It doesn't matter.

He's on the clock, he can only maintain Mandate Earth for so long, while he's harvesting energy to grow it into a stable universe.

If an alternate energy source would give him more extra time than it costs him to arrange it, that's a plus.

If an alternate energy source makes him closer to growing Mandate Earth than it would take him to arrange it, that's a plus.

Eemeer said:
Vanishing Point, due to it's unique nature temporally and physically, does have additional limits though. The original conversation ParaPaul had with Dox hinted at this.
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Being in a pocket dimension carved out of the final moment before entropy claims the universe would be limiting, however, that would mean nothing to some of the energy sources in the DC franchise.

However, whoever said he was limited to what he can do himself? He's the Time Trapper. He's allowed to have minions, it's even canon with Glorith. He can have other people build bleed generators, tap into the literally infinite Quantum Field, the elemental powers, steal Dr Destiny's dreamstone that has 6 and a half billion alternate universes in it born out of the dreaming, recruit an opener like Tim Hunter to create a universe, get a world egg from faerie, whatever.
 
Nic611 said:
Why not? How would the differences from someone who's abilities are derived from technology be enough to give a good justification for the exclusion? Both are using an outside source or medium to gain superhuman abilities.

Edit: Do they just not take in magic users, or those who's bulk of their magic power is derived from using artifacts? Or because the artifact is often times not easily replaceable unlike a lot of technology which could just be rebuilt?
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Because an artifact user's abilities can be stolen/broken.

In one version that rule was established after Quantum Kid got killed because of that.

His sister, who had the time manipulation technology surgically implanted, didn't have that problem.

Crimson Doom said:
Makes you wonder what happened to them. Whatever it was must have been catastrophic.
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There are three major legion of superheroes versions.

In one version the Green Lantern Corps was enough of a thing that Universo got kicked out, becoming a hypnotic supervillain, so his son got the ring. Which was a problem because lanterns weren't legally allowed on Earth.

In I believe another legion of superheroes, the green lantern corps was enough of a thing that a lantern's power battery blew up in Neon's face causing her to absorb the energy and to become a construct green lantern.

In another version, Oa is a dead planet, the Guardians are extinct, Mogo is dead so no new green lanterns (Mogo is the one who chooses recruits), and Sodam Yat is the last green lantern.

But the Guardians created a golem to restart the GLC after their death and make a new Oa, the ring being offered to Earth Man and Harmonia Li.
 
Rond Vidar is a member of the Legion, and his only superpower was having a Green Lantern ring. As Stsword mentioned, he was Universo's son, and he got an 'honorary membership' for helping thwart Universo, and then later became a full member as a Green Lantern. Thus, there's precedent for Dana Dearden joining the Legion depending on the situation. Odds are good she'll want to help thwart the Time Trapper since the timeline she came from no longer exists and all, and that'll probably get her foot in the door.

Also, to those who think this episode didn't have an impact on the story, you're missing something. This was the Origin Story of the present incarnation of the Time Trapper. If he shows up again, and he just might given the situation and all, that's fairly relevant.

As I see it things went like this.

In 'The Universe without Paul' Controller Jevok experiments with temporal mechanics and severs himself from time, becoming the Time Trapper. When he grabs Paul (who remains something of a temporal blindspot for some reason) Paul recognizes him. Trapper Jevok realizes he has the ability to influence his own timeline, and attempts to do so by influencing Earth's history to ensure it has more advanced technology and is thus stronger, so the Controllers and the Orange Lantern Corps are stronger as a knock on effect.

His chosen means of accomplishing this is to utilize Vandal Savage. He grabs Savage from Paul's timeline and sends him back to cause the alteration that leads to the Mandate timeline. At the same time, this same manipulation of the timeline means that the identity of the Time Trapper now shifts from Jevok to Savage himself, because Savage is a more capable ruthless manipulator than Jevok.

The heroes of the Mandate timeline are unable to ensure their own artificial history, and given the damage done by and the absolute strength of Savage backed up by Trapper Savage, instead opt to ensure Savage's plans are entirely thwarted by sending Mandate Paul back to the temporal manipulation that caused the Mandate Timeline to exist and killing this iteration of Savage off.

Savage's failure and now non-existence means that the identity of the Time Trapper now shifts from him, to Mandate Paul, whose own actions have severed him from time. As with every shift of the Time Trapper's identity, this means Mandate Paul has now always been the Time Trapper, merely presenting himself as others to maintain the Time Trapper identity's internal consistency.

Mandate and now Trapper Paul's goal is to save his timeline, which is now trapped in a loop of the four days it actually existed. He requires more temporal flexibility to do so, and the only way to gain such is to muck around with time like the Time Trapper always does and let the Legion revert his changes.

TLDR; As a result of this entire mess, Truggs now remembers the whole shebang, though he probably doesn't know Mandate Paul is the Time Trapper, there's a secondary version of Dana Dearden and her coins in the now stabilized time period of the Legion of Superheroes, and the Time Trapper is now an alternate version of Paul who is doing the same things the Time Trapper always does, but now is doing it for the sake of saving his loved ones and entire history.
 
Emerald Oracle said:
Rond Vidar is a member of the Legion, and his only superpower was having a Green Lantern ring. As Stsword mentioned, he was Universo's son, and he got an 'honorary membership' for helping thwart Universo, and then later became a full member as a Green Lantern. Thus, there's precedent for Dana Dearden joining the Legion depending on the situation. Odds are good she'll want to help thwart the Time Trapper since the timeline she came from no longer exists and all, and that'll probably get her foot in the door.
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I thought they loopholed Rond Vidar, that his qualifying power was that he had the willpower to resist the superhypnosis of his father, and presumably similar mind controllers. So his power was "super willpower."

Actually there's another possible rule that might prevent Dana from being a legionnaire. And this rule I find silly- Every legionnaire is required to have a unique power, unless you have the kryptonian package. As if potentially useful legionnaires not being on a mission for whatever reason didn't happen all the freaking time in the stories.

The coins give her strength, speed, flight, supervision, electricity, and durability. The legion probably has all of those covered.

It was a plot point when Wildfire tried to join up. He auditioned with powers that Mon-El, Shrinking Violet, Colossal Boy, Phantom Girl, and Chemical Kid all had. He didn't learn how to release his anti-energy for energy blasts without leaving his suit until later, so he refused to show that power. Then he uses it to save Colossal Boy's life, and the legion, not realizing he wasn't dead, jacked his suit, so it took him a while to fly back to Earth and find his suit again.

And was why Lightning Lass's powers were altered to make her Light Lass instead- her brother decided to return to the legion, and two lightning throwers was one too many, according to the rules.

Of course, none of the legions ever shown were the legion of superheroes of Earth-16, so Zoat is perfectly free to jettison both rules as silly if he so desires.

Heck, he could have the founder of the Legion of Superheroes, Brande, be the Martian Manhunter like DC comics once decided on but was never shown.
 
stsword said:
And was why Lightning Lass's powers were altered to make her Light Lass instead- her brother decided to return to the legion, and two lightning throwers was one too many, according to the rules.
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What.

I mean...

So you go through some procedure to change someones inherent powers, the powers she's probably practiced with for her whole life, because someone else also has them. That's...

Just dumb.
 
TheLastOne said:
What.

I mean...

So you go through some procedure to change someones inherent powers, the powers she's probably practiced with for her whole life, because someone else also has them. That's...

Just dumb.
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I won't defend that, but it's not quite that bad. The Lightning kids weren't born with their powers, they were stranded on planet that has native lightning throwing beasts, which naturally enough, tried to electrocute them all.

Fortunately for them, all three of them had the metagene apparently, because they were turned into Lightning Lad, Lass, and Lord, respectively.

Comic book time being what it is, I'm not sure how long she had with her original powers before they were temporarily altered on her. Her powers later went back to normal on their own, if memory serves.
 
stsword said:
Well if novels had a monthly deadline, with series writers being replaced on a regular basis, said writers being free to contradict earlier material, I imagine novels would have similar issues.
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Good point. Now that you bring it up, I do recall some objectively good writers being kicked off their respective books for.... who even knows why. Okay, I retract my statement in favor of "the comic book industry kinda sucks".
 
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