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This time he didn't even try that and then decided to be spiteful to just because he didn't want to say he was sorry.
Repentence is not just saying you're sorry. You have to mean it, and take on an act to undo the actions.

Paul won't say it because he is not sorry, and will not lie about it.

As far as I can tell, he's just steamrolling past normal human societal norms as if they don't exist.
eh, if the norm isn't useful, but also hinders good actions, fuck the norm.


This has got everyone's panties in a twist because the norms in question involve religion. Which... isn't really that bad? Maybe a bit arrogant...
It's not bad at all. Hell, not even really arrogant, although even arrogance is only bad if you're wrong.

No, he's driven himself a very specific kind of sane, when most humans are insane.
Which is to say, Paul is a Knurd.
 
Yeah it's just annoying because apparently an actual invasion by the forces of hell was literally brushed off, but one angel showing up causes mass disorder.

How many aliens have invaded this Earth by now? Given how frequent it occurs, and given the whole "Our planetary neighbor has life on it," I can see people seeing a shot of a demon on the news and going "Aliens? Again? Thank god for the Justice League" and moving on with their day.

People can be very very self-delusional in order to avoid uncomfortable questions.
 
Interesting read, although I didn't see anything declaring it non-canon? Last I knew, and I wish I was making this up, Squirrel girl has confirmed victories over Thanos, Dr. Doom, and GALACTUS. All because someone at Marvel thinks it's funny, and that people are too uptight and unaccepting of stupid comedy.

...let me guess, you're not a Dragonball Z fan. :V
At the time, when I was a kid, I enjoyed it quite a bit. It still has a special place in my heart, even if the martial arts in it...annoyed me. My issue is anime that came afterwards, that copied DBZ without bothering to fix the problems DBZ had. Or increasing those same problems. Naruto for example threw everything away to just become more like DBZ. To be honest...I think the only worthy successor has been One Piece.


You are officially my favorite person in this particular tangent
Yay!!

Holy shit, are you me? Because I've wanted to see something like this in fiction for years now!
Hmmm...I don't remember releasing a clone. There was that one threesome though...I don't recall all the details.

I am kind of starting to get tired of Paul's attitude.
I'm tired of the tiredness. Nah, kidding. I just don't really get what everyone is talking about.

I am honestly not seeing what Paul's doing wrong.
You and me both.

Im pretty sure that were being set up for some one to come in and seriously humble OL a bit.
Eh, I have faith that Zoat won't be that boring. I'm just seeing a lot of Tall Poppy syndrome going on.

As far as I can tell, he's just steamrolling past normal human societal norms as if they don't exist. This has got everyone's panties in a twist because the norms in question involve religion. Which... isn't really that bad? Maybe a bit arrogant...
And I love it. I hate stupid unspoken rules. "Why must we do this?" "Because it's what we've always done."
 
"Don't." / "It might be best-."

And now I'm thinking of taking him to task on what happens if he dies due to not being sufficiently prepared. I'm thinking of pointing out that Envenomed gangs across the Americas are being replaced -in some cases eaten- by Jizzers. I'm thinking of pointing out that the tiny vial of holy water he's carrying isn't going to make any difference worth mentioning. I'm thinking why are you trying to stop me helping you?
Wow is that a blatant callback to Paulphidian.

The really worrying thing is that at this point the impetus to make him see how far off the baseline for human ways of thinking he's moved will probably have to come from someone else, unless this interview goes differently than I expect, and the list of people that a) Paul will listen to and b) that will actually call him out is getting steadily lower.

It's basically just the Green Lanterns + Alan at this point.
 
How many aliens have invaded this Earth by now? Given how frequent it occurs, and given the whole "Our planetary neighbor has life on it," I can see people seeing a shot of a demon on the news and going "Aliens? Again? Thank god for the Justice League" and moving on with their day.

People can be very very self-delusional in order to avoid uncomfortable questions.
But that's exactly it. The closest thing left to the literal Devil showed up outside the Hall of Justice and Paul kicked his ass and nothing. The self delusion only applies to the guy with feathery wings.
 
I'm trying to stay out of this for the most part, but it was established that just saying sorry wouldn't cut it.
I dunno. One of the things that popped up in the story was that the fruit was not some verboten may never, ever be taken thing, And that if a Gabriel-in-good-standing had wanted the fruit, he could have just requisitioned one on his own authority. And then at the end, when the poor angel who had been nothing but polite and respectful was having a BSOD moment, I would have tried to repent as much as I was able. Out of compassion and pity if nothing else. Because he was standing there in front of me, suffering. And using "want the ends, want the means" is a bit bullshit if the ends (a fruit of knowledge) have the means (get it from the garden somehow), but that somehow didn't actually require theft, and the theft was just a lazy, unnecessary step made along the way. And if I couldn't have convinced myself, that's alright. I would have said the lie anyway, because Zauriel seemed to be personally hurting, might have accepted it because if he did, that would have freed him to leave.

And if it didn't work fine, at least you tried. I mean, OL isn't a fairy. He is perfectly free to lie, and has done so before. It would have been a miniscule moral compromise for Paul, compared the the humongous moral compromise he was asking from Zauriel when he tempted him to literally eat of the forbidden fruit. It is also easier than offering to accompany him to the gates of the silver City and wait while he reports, or transition back into Eden so he could relay a message through one of the angels there.

The whole scene made me very disappointed in Paul. Because he was so much crueler than he could have been. And because it was a lie. There were so many more choices other than take the fruit or "stand there paralysed until I leave or you're given alternative orders." The devils first lie is that the only options you have are the ones he puts in front of you. For someone acting as an advocate of free will, he diabolically made sure there was as little free choice given as possible.
 
Pursuant

15th October
14:30
This feels very much like a rerun of the orange-poisoning after the home invasion. Paul is loosing it, and at an increasing rate.

and while I'd like it if people responded rationally I don't really expect it.
I have to wonder if he has interacted with anyone in the last, say three months, and come away thinking that they are making rational decisions. Because at this point I'm pretty confident he is using 'rational' like SB used to use 'competent'.

I'm thinking why are you trying to stop me helping you?
This is something that Paul desperately needs to meditate on. Because he keeps trying to 'help' people and everyone with a shred of authority over him keep telling him to go away.

I am honestly not seeing what Paul's doing wrong.
Fundamentally? Disregarding the opinions of others, with no thought to the consequences of doing so.
 
Paul really needs to discover that goverment run by demons and its cultists.

The hilarity from topling the government of one of the nations on the Security Council would be glorious.
 
Only me is eager to read the next chapter with Ms. Grant?

Also, I have a question related to this chapter, but I think someone can take it as offensive. Can I ask it, now that I've warned?
 
Yes, but the only thing that you and I really seem to disagree on is whether I'm a good cook, and fuck you, I am.

But that's exactly it. The closest thing left to the literal Devil showed up outside the Hall of Justice and Paul kicked his ass and nothing. The self delusion only applies to the guy with feathery wings.
No, people are cool with the Eagle helmed Thanagarians. It's just the albino one they're rioting over.
 
Regarding the Silver City going to invade Earth I thought that Christians believed in the Rapture or was that demon invasion it?
 
This continuity? If I'm not mistaken - one, and it resulted in creation and official U.N. sanctioning (with large budget allocations by member states) of the Justice League.

The Appellaxians were just the first alien invaders the Justice League handled here.

While there are no explicit mentions in YJ canon of other open invasions in 2010 and '11, this Earth still has three Green Lanterns for some reason.

I'd be shocked if the Appellaxians were the only alien invaders, especially given what Zoat's pulling from the comics to fit here.

I mean, in YJ canon, most of the alien invasions happen in 2015. Braniac, the Reach, Despero, and Mogul had invaded Earth that year.

The Kroloteans and Apokolips technically have already invaded earth, at least in secret by this point in the timeline.

Young Justice Invasion was "surprisingly" chocked full of invasions.
But that's exactly it. The closest thing left to the literal Devil showed up outside the Hall of Justice and Paul kicked his ass and nothing. The self delusion only applies to the guy with feathery wings.

Given how I know numerous theologians would argue that Satanus is the farthest thing you could get to the literal Lucifer since he's not at all beautiful and resplendent tells me that they would easily hand-wave that away. These people did see Poseidon and hand-wave that away too.

We have real people who believe the Earth is flat and that the moon landing was faked. It isn't that much of a stretch for them to be doing an Olympic Games' worth of mental gymnastics to make their world view stay safe and solid.

Angel Boy was just the one who finally cracked it wide and open.
 
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Probably when Zauriel was talking in Biblical Verses, anyone interested heard it. Cause OL isn't all that important, and morality lesson to many people.
People being stupid didn't learn said morality lesson. News at 11!:V
 
The Appellaxians were just the first alien invaders the Justice League handled here.

While there are no explicit mentions in YJ canon of other open invasions in 2010 and '11, this Earth still has three Green Lanterns for some reason.

I'd be shocked if the Appellaxians were the only alien invaders, especially given what Zoat's pulling from the comics to fit here.

I mean, in YJ canon, most of the alien invasions happen in 2015. Braniac, the Reach, Despero, and Mogul had invaded Earth that year.

The Kroloteans and Apokolips technically have already invaded earth, at least in secret by this point in the timeline.

Young Justice Invasion was "surprisingly" chocked full of invasions.
Well, there were/are Durlans, but, in the absence of evidence, I think my point stands: after experiencing a worldwide invasion, the world reacted, by sanctioning JL. Of course then something went wrong. Very wrong.

Also: if the angelic appearance is causing a stir... Why hasn't Oceanus appearing resulted in a lot of social upheaval? Neo-pagans are a thing, and there were probably hellenists in Greece.
 
I highly doubt anyone heard them talking from that high up.
I wouldn't bet on them not hearing the angels side. He was speaking in bold with biblical chapter markings. I don't think he was using his indoor voice. Also, messenger of the lord. I would be surprised if everyone who saw him heard it, and everyone who heard it understood it. The angels side if the conversation at least. Pauls responses, probably not.

No, he's driven himself a very specific kind of sane, when most humans are insane.
I've made that exact observation before.

If most humans are insane, then they are, by definition, sane, because sanity has far more to do with the baseline of mental stability than it does with any sort of objective standard.
No, if you watch some of the science shows about how we think and perceive the world, there are biases and short cuts hard wired into the brain that make us want to make erroneous conclusions about factual, observable phenomenon. Human are as a species insane, and a person who tells you otherwise is just another patient in the nuthouse pulling your leg. You are conflating normality for sanity, when rejecting objective reality because you have visceral emotional reaction against it is the essence of insanity. It is also something humans are innately predisposed to do. But that doesn't make it sane.
 
It's kind of ironic that despite how abnormal his mindset is compared to most heroes, and people in general, Paul is often dealing with PR or just explaining things as simple as possible to the public. Explaining how or why the League or heroes in general deal with certain problems, such as politics, and how catastrophes occur either due to magic or a differences in cultures or science.

He'll probably bring up his previous statements on how certain religions, if not most, how actual tangibility that a normal person could be affect or affect it themselves. Stating that how much of it is due to human interpretation getting it right and how much of it was wrong, smoothly going the fact that the reason why he came down to investigate was due to his involvement in a process of ensuring future demon invasion being stopped by a weapon/warrior empowered by the Heaven itself.

At this point Paul is going to be a reoccurring guest on the show they might as well have a seat reserved for him.
 
Oh boi oh boi oh boi I'M SO EXCITED! OL sitting in for news interviews is one of my favorite parts of the story. I love interludes, and this is the closest we can get. I want to know how the genpop perceives Paul.
 
No, if you watch some of the science shows about how we think and perceive the world, there are biases and short cuts hard wired into the brain that make us want to make erroneous conclusions about factual, observable phenomenon. Human are as a species insane, and a person who tells you otherwise is just another patient in the nuthouse pulling your leg. You are conflating normality for sanity, when rejecting objective reality because you have visceral emotional reaction against it is the essence of insanity. It is also something humans are innately predisposed to do. But that doesn't make it sane.

...you and I are clearly operating under very different definitions of sanity, because I feel like you're conflating sanity with rationality.
 
How many aliens have invaded this Earth by now? Given how frequent it occurs, and given the whole "Our planetary neighbor has life on it," I can see people seeing a shot of a demon on the news and going "Aliens? Again? Thank god for the Justice League" and moving on with their day.

People can be very very self-delusional in order to avoid uncomfortable questions.
That incident might have been reported as demons, and as widely believed as that the guy who flew into the base was an angel, but Paul didn't get any backlash because the problem was there before him and most people (who believed he was fighting demons) approved of fighting demons.

The whole scene made me very disappointed in Paul. Because he was so much crueler than he could have been. And because it was a lie. There were so many more choices other than take the fruit or "stand there paralysed until I leave or you're given alternative orders." The devils first lie is that the only options you have are the ones he puts in front of you. For someone acting as an advocate of free will, he diabolically made sure there was as little free choice given as possible.

I agree. Zauriel seems smart enough to come up with alternatives and decide if it's worth it on his own, but that doesn't excuse Paul pushing a major life choice on someone for his own convenience.
 
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