With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Somewhere out there
No, it just means he hasn't written out the upcoming plan.
- Location
- United States
Ah. Well, nothing to do but settle in then.
Is that normal by the way, that the list of parts expands as they come out?
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
Eh, I was only referring to his whole pomegranate action sequence as "don't regret it." Though I really don't think he'll regret the other in principle. He might, perhaps, dislike the outcome, depending on exactly what heaven dishes out, but affirming the validity of a choice while disliking its effects is not repentance at all.
Offering the fruit hardly seems evil in this case. The angel was stuck, and he simply offered it a way out that he had available. As far as we know, his intent was genuine, and he didn't try to hide the consequences; Zauriel made an informed choice.
bottom ends of the filaments are
he dodging less
he's dodging less
an alternative suggestion
: if we tried this
; if we tried this
; a large interstellar empire
: a large interstellar empire
make me a lantern
So:
"-why you poozers thought
Though I'll warn you;
Though I'll warn you:
Bleed fracture
A field of spatial charges appear
A field of spatial charges appears
: I caused the
: looking stern and sober
Tell me, impostor:
spencer1519
(Verified Heretic)
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Though in this case it might. It's about the right length for an episode. Around 20-30 parts.
Last edited:
Why should he? The Silver City doesn't have a monopoly on anti-demon warfare. Rather the opposite, considering how much help (ie, none at all) the angels have provided against Satanus. Hell is literally invading Earth and the angels are doing nothing. No angels were at Fawcett City. No angels were present when Paul fought the ball demon with the Hawks. The Silver City has demonstrated time and again that they are either not willing or not able to help in the war against Hell. Given that angelic magic has proven anti-demon properties (the angel feather rounds, the Blue Devil smouldering from Zauriel's mere presence) we must assume that the answer is the former. Moreover, since the one source we know has tried to talk to them (Thana) was burned for doing so, Paul would be a fool to try.
To talk to the dead. That is literally her job, to talk to the dead so that the living get closure. Thana isn't a demon, she doesn't collect souls to burn for magic power. She was literally there just to talk to the dead and she was burned for asking.
We have no reason to suspect that Thana is lying. At no point in her on screen history has she been shown to be anything other than forthright and honest. Also, no context? Where do you get that? The context is right there! Paul asked if Thana can speak to any dead, or just Themyscrian dead. Thana replied that she can talk to any dead, but usually doesn't have a reason to. Paul then asked if that includes monotheistic dead, where Thana replied that she couldn't and that the Silver City gave her eternal burns for asking.
By the way, I don't know if you've ever been burned, but it's incredibly painful. The Silver City is essentially torturing Thana for the grave and terrible crime of asking if she could do her job. Tell me again why Paul should bother talking with them again?
- Location
- 'Murica
Except this isn't some random person off the street saying this. It's Thana. Someone who is to all appearances intelligent, humble, and straightforward. You can't just say her first-hand account isn't a reliable source because what we know of her character indicates that it would be. Ultimately, we have no actual indications that she is lying, and you are assuming she's guilty with no proof or even hints of that being true. She's not a criminal, we don't take you seriously for treating her as such.
I would also note that Zauriel is considered atypical of angels. He empathizes with mortals enough to fall in love with one and that is treated as very unusual. It's entirely possible that another angel could hear a command to not let followers of other gods into the Silver City and take that to mean they should attack anyone who tries to make contact for defying God's will.
Because while angels aren't capable of disobeying orders they do carry them out to the best of their ability and interpretation: Zauriel chose to be reasonable with Paul when he didn't necessarily have to be. He could have flown up, explained why he was there, and then refused any other communication. He could have interrupted OL every time he spoke for weeks until he caved. Or sung show-tunes forever.
TL;DR: Thana's not an unreliable source until you prove her to be, and Zauriel is not a good indication of typical behavior for angels.
While I do think that it is odd and annoying that Paul is showing less respect to the Silver City than he did the fucking Spider Guild, they aren't really paragons of good and righteous behavior in DC either.
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
I don't know anything canon about the Spider Guild. Are they usually evil?
an alternate idea
an alternative idea
Dox give me
Dox gives me
mashing their faces into their words are
mashing their faces into, their words are
he vanishes and I stare
an orange
the beam
"Orange Lantern Corps motto: 'I want it all.'"
destroy my window again;
and she needs you to reduce
Tell me, Grayven:
the flames concentrating themselves
the carpet or his clothes
the Darkstars' map
an alternate idea
an alternative idea
Dox give me
Dox gives me
a few of them:
mashing their faces into their words are
mashing their faces into, their words are
Heggra
zhuull
SB still lying to protect Racists what else is new
Would you please stop trying to find excuses for your pet religion , which by the way isn't the same as the one in the comics universe beyond a purely superficial resemblance?
It's bad enough when you get in a huff about the Silver City behaving in ways you don't approve of, or the nonsense you were going on about a few pages ago with the UN all suddenly being subordinate to
Thana was "uncomfortable" because she was fucking maimed you twit. Also I love the immediate jump you did to "well maybe she's lying", that was super "Abrahamic" of you, really.
Last edited:
- Location
- United States
According to the two wikis I looked at they're an expansionist empire that may or may not butt heads with the GLC on a semi-regular basis. Also they apparently invade worlds, cocoon the inhabitants, and then feed them to their young so, y'know—there's that.
I need to fill space so: space spiders that like to eat people—not sure if that's the route Zoat went here, can't remember.
Which is why it's so odd that Paul won't even consider talking to the Silver City. The race of creepy spider monsters that literally eat planets worth of people?
"Sure, I'll play bodyguard to one of their leaders and help organize a peace deal with pirates and slavers to avoid the planet they're on falling into chaos."
The Silver City, with its Hellblazer-depiction of rape angels and blown up cities?
"Those bastards are heinous scum. I shan't sully myself by interacting with them! Or y'know trying to find anything out about them personally."
Last edited:
Can you please point to any evidence, in any of DC's storylines, that indicates The Catholic church (or any other church) has a hotline to God/the Archangels. Cause right now it sounds like the 2 of you are substituting RL 'the pope has the ear of God(and viceversa)" part of Religious doctrine and declaring it canon to DC's universes unilaterally.She was asking to contact a soul, to see if he would be willing to be reincarnated (for OL's Lazarus pit research). Considering they had 30 some candidates, a simple 'No' would have been sufficient to send her on her way, looking up another option.
pretty much. they often fight the Green Lanterns among others.
OL: "Well...can you communicate with Heaven?"
Pope: "Certainly. That's why my hat is so tall, it has to fit over the antenna."
- Location
- Oceanside
They have animosity with the Green Lantern Corps, and they're great conquerors, so they're Evil By Default.
- Location
- Oblivion
There was a barrier around Fawcett City.
I rather suspect that made any rapid response from Heaven rather difficult.
And well, given the perspective for all we know they were in the middle of setting up a giant orbital magi-tech cannon to blast through the demonic barrier when the situation resolved itself. :lol
- Location
- madison
The pope is gods representative on earth, and the church has demon hunters so is magically aware. They may not be able to casually call angles, but it's not a bad place to check if you're trying to get an angel within shouting distance of one of his coworkers. the point isn't that it would 100% for sure have worked, the point is:
Holy shit, are you me? Because I've wanted to see something like this in fiction for years now!
I believe @PeliusAnar's incessant arguing on the subject can be used as proof for what was said earlier in this thread: people are not rational when it comes to their religion, and his behavior is an example of how some people will go to any lengths to make YHWH and his Angels the "good guys" while deflecting, ignoring, or dismissing any evidence to the contrary. He jumps to the conclusion that obviously Thana must have done something to provoke them and demands more details about the incident in question, while as far as I can tell he's not using the same standard of proof when he casts judgement on Paul.Would you please stop trying to find excuses for your pet religion , which by the way isn't the same as the one in the comics universe beyond a purely superficial resemblance?
It's bad enough when you get in a huff about the Silver City behaving in ways you don't approve of, or the nonsense you were going on about a few pages ago with the UN all suddenly being subordinate toChristiansahmm, I mean ''Abrahamic" religions. But at this point you are literally ignoring both what people are telling you and what was written in the actual story.
Thana was "uncomfortable" because she was fucking maimed you twit. Also I love the immediate jump you did to "well maybe she's lying", that was super "Abrahamic" of you, really.
- Location
- West Coast
well, I caught up on the thread finally. hi guys.
- Location
- New England
Hello. Welcome to Hell.
Pursuant (part 1)
- Location
- Hampden Park
Pursuant
15th October
14:30
"Would you care to explain what you thought you were doing?"
"Certainly, Batman. But I thought that I was getting you the expert magic users you wanted."
I was moderately pleased to see that the Watchtower's zeta tube has been moved to a more secure location, but otherwise the place looks basically unchanged from when I was last here. Of course, this time I'm still wearing my rings which puts a rather different spin on things. And I'm not talking to the full League, just Batman and Diana.
"Ms Blaze is still recovering, but has indicated a continued desire to fulfil her end of our bargain. And you've already spoken to Doctor Balewa. Is there anything wrong with either of them?"
"You broke into the Garden of Eden and stole a fruit from the Tree of Knowledge."
"I believe I stated that in my report, yes."
"Are you really trying to tell me that you see nothing wrong with that?"
"It was suboptimal, but I judged that the harm done was trivial and the potential benefits extremely large. I had contingency plans in place for all readily foreseeable outcomes and quite a few possible but unlikely ones. All told, I achieved my objectives and the only real difficulty came from a surprisingly reasonable angel."
"An Angel who followed you back to New York, where he was seen by thousands of people." Batman presses a button and a holographic display lights up, showing newspaper pages and news recordings from around the world. "Recordings of him hovering over the city and speaking with you have now been shown in every country on the planet."
"Okay? I'm not quite sure why the existence of Angels comes as a surprise, given the number of Demons that have been seen recently and.. given the predominance of monotheistic religions. I mean… You're Catholic, right? You believed in angels before you saw that video, didn't you?"
"Yes. But the only person you appear to have consulted before pursuing this course of action was Zatara, who is not an expert on theology."
"Last time I talked to Father Mattias about it, he told me that the Catholic Church had no direct contact with the Silver City. The Resurrection Crusade did, and it turned them into a hole in the ground. Again, as far as I'm aware, no monotheistic group has any direct contact with the Silver City and most of them have no knowledge of basic thaumaturgy anyway. I admit, not talking to Mister Cassidy was an oversight, but as it turned out he wouldn't have had all that much to offer either."
"I'm not talking about the thaumaturgical aspect. I'm talking about the political fallout from a being representing God appearing on Earth."
Another button press, and news recordings appear of demonstrations and riots. Batman's not stupid enough to just play random riot footage…
"I gave you a transcript of everything Zauriel said to me. He wasn't angry and he didn't give the impression that he thought that his superiors were either. His sole interest was in making me repent and he was pretty clear that Jehovah isn't directing the officials of the Silver City on a day to day basis. As for-" I gesture to the pictures with my right arm. "-that… " I shrug. "Loonies gunna loon, I'm afraid. We had the same thing after Fawcett City, and while I'd like it if people responded rationally I don't really expect it. My fellow Amazons didn't riot when I dropped Apollo in a pigsty."
Diana winces slightly. "We generally try to avoid getting caught up in conflicts between Olympians."
"There are more Hellenists on Themyscira than outside it. Over half the Human race worship the God you just provoked."
"If an actual demonic invasion didn't result in direct divine intervention I doubt that what I did will. And if it does… I'll just have someone open a portal to Hell, fly through and wait until they've cut through half of Hell to find me. I don't have a lot of time for the Silver City, but if they're finally involving themselves in the world… Great. They're far more able to fight Demons than I am. If they'd taken action after Fawcett City I wouldn't have gone to Eden."
"I'm not talking about the possibility of a response from heaven. I'm talking about the response from billions of people and from their representatives in the UN."
Ah… Okay, there's a majority of monotheist countries on the Security Council, but solidly atheist China would probably veto anything too stupid. Wouldn't they? "Why? Are they.. hassling you? Because we both know that the League's Charter isn't much more than a fig leaf. And in any case, I don't work for the League in any formal way."
"Talking to an angel isn't a crime. But there's a lot more concern about the fact that you went into Eden. In Judaism, Christianity and Islam Humans are explicitly forbidden from setting foot inside. Aside-."
"Zauriel said that they weren't that bothered. I'm not really all that impressed about them getting offended on someone else's behalf, or in thinking that their understanding of what Jehovah wants is better than the angels."
"Aside from anything else, we've received a lot of… Requests, that you release information on how to get to Eden."
"No."
"I recognise the value of information security, but if you can get inside-."
"People who know the location are me, Zatanna, John and the people who guard it. Getting in and out undetected required a group of technologies and magic that no one else on Earth has. In fact, I don't think anyone in the universe has tattoos like mine, just.. due to the way magic works in this universe. Which means that the absolute last thing I should do is give anyone more information. Idiots flooding the place to try and protect it are far more likely to trigger a counterattack than just about anything else."
"And what do you expect us to do if they ask us to arrest you?"
"Celebrate, because it means that you've actually taken a decision on the future role of the Justice League. Have you actually voted for the 'recruit everyone' model?" I stare at him for a moment. "Be confused, because the Security Council doesn't issue arrest warrants? Sigh, cut off a hand and post it to the Chief Justice of Iran? Is that.. likely to happen? Do I need to start sleeping on the moon or outside the Sol system?"
Diana takes a calming breath. "Paul, when was the last time you took your rings off?"
"About a week ago. It's not that. I just respond badly to stupidity. Do you want a high end anti-demon magic user..? Or not? Does the Security Council want you to have a high end anti-demon magic user..? Or not? Because those are the options."
No immediate response.
"No, serious question. Because if you're not going to take her then I need to find someone else and that's.. going to take a while."
"Don't." / "It might be best-."
And now I'm thinking of taking him to task on what happens if he dies due to not being sufficiently prepared. I'm thinking of pointing out that Envenomed gangs across the Americas are being replaced -in some cases eaten- by Jizzers. I'm thinking of pointing out that the tiny vial of holy water he's carrying isn't going to make any difference worth mentioning. I'm thinking why are you trying to stop me helping you?
But if he's winding me up to see what happens or has just genuinely decided to be this obstinate, the result of me pushing is the same. I will achieve nothing useful.
And… Just like that… I don't need to keep pushing any longer. Huh. That feels nicer, actually.
"Okay. If you don't like what I've been doing, what would you like me to do instead?"
16th October
15:30 -5
I stride out onto the stage to applause from the audience as Ms Grant stands to welcome me.
Media training, don't fail me now.
15th October
14:30
"Would you care to explain what you thought you were doing?"
"Certainly, Batman. But I thought that I was getting you the expert magic users you wanted."
I was moderately pleased to see that the Watchtower's zeta tube has been moved to a more secure location, but otherwise the place looks basically unchanged from when I was last here. Of course, this time I'm still wearing my rings which puts a rather different spin on things. And I'm not talking to the full League, just Batman and Diana.
"Ms Blaze is still recovering, but has indicated a continued desire to fulfil her end of our bargain. And you've already spoken to Doctor Balewa. Is there anything wrong with either of them?"
"You broke into the Garden of Eden and stole a fruit from the Tree of Knowledge."
"I believe I stated that in my report, yes."
"Are you really trying to tell me that you see nothing wrong with that?"
"It was suboptimal, but I judged that the harm done was trivial and the potential benefits extremely large. I had contingency plans in place for all readily foreseeable outcomes and quite a few possible but unlikely ones. All told, I achieved my objectives and the only real difficulty came from a surprisingly reasonable angel."
"An Angel who followed you back to New York, where he was seen by thousands of people." Batman presses a button and a holographic display lights up, showing newspaper pages and news recordings from around the world. "Recordings of him hovering over the city and speaking with you have now been shown in every country on the planet."
"Okay? I'm not quite sure why the existence of Angels comes as a surprise, given the number of Demons that have been seen recently and.. given the predominance of monotheistic religions. I mean… You're Catholic, right? You believed in angels before you saw that video, didn't you?"
"Yes. But the only person you appear to have consulted before pursuing this course of action was Zatara, who is not an expert on theology."
"Last time I talked to Father Mattias about it, he told me that the Catholic Church had no direct contact with the Silver City. The Resurrection Crusade did, and it turned them into a hole in the ground. Again, as far as I'm aware, no monotheistic group has any direct contact with the Silver City and most of them have no knowledge of basic thaumaturgy anyway. I admit, not talking to Mister Cassidy was an oversight, but as it turned out he wouldn't have had all that much to offer either."
"I'm not talking about the thaumaturgical aspect. I'm talking about the political fallout from a being representing God appearing on Earth."
Another button press, and news recordings appear of demonstrations and riots. Batman's not stupid enough to just play random riot footage…
"I gave you a transcript of everything Zauriel said to me. He wasn't angry and he didn't give the impression that he thought that his superiors were either. His sole interest was in making me repent and he was pretty clear that Jehovah isn't directing the officials of the Silver City on a day to day basis. As for-" I gesture to the pictures with my right arm. "-that… " I shrug. "Loonies gunna loon, I'm afraid. We had the same thing after Fawcett City, and while I'd like it if people responded rationally I don't really expect it. My fellow Amazons didn't riot when I dropped Apollo in a pigsty."
Diana winces slightly. "We generally try to avoid getting caught up in conflicts between Olympians."
"There are more Hellenists on Themyscira than outside it. Over half the Human race worship the God you just provoked."
"If an actual demonic invasion didn't result in direct divine intervention I doubt that what I did will. And if it does… I'll just have someone open a portal to Hell, fly through and wait until they've cut through half of Hell to find me. I don't have a lot of time for the Silver City, but if they're finally involving themselves in the world… Great. They're far more able to fight Demons than I am. If they'd taken action after Fawcett City I wouldn't have gone to Eden."
"I'm not talking about the possibility of a response from heaven. I'm talking about the response from billions of people and from their representatives in the UN."
Ah… Okay, there's a majority of monotheist countries on the Security Council, but solidly atheist China would probably veto anything too stupid. Wouldn't they? "Why? Are they.. hassling you? Because we both know that the League's Charter isn't much more than a fig leaf. And in any case, I don't work for the League in any formal way."
"Talking to an angel isn't a crime. But there's a lot more concern about the fact that you went into Eden. In Judaism, Christianity and Islam Humans are explicitly forbidden from setting foot inside. Aside-."
"Zauriel said that they weren't that bothered. I'm not really all that impressed about them getting offended on someone else's behalf, or in thinking that their understanding of what Jehovah wants is better than the angels."
"Aside from anything else, we've received a lot of… Requests, that you release information on how to get to Eden."
"No."
"I recognise the value of information security, but if you can get inside-."
"People who know the location are me, Zatanna, John and the people who guard it. Getting in and out undetected required a group of technologies and magic that no one else on Earth has. In fact, I don't think anyone in the universe has tattoos like mine, just.. due to the way magic works in this universe. Which means that the absolute last thing I should do is give anyone more information. Idiots flooding the place to try and protect it are far more likely to trigger a counterattack than just about anything else."
"And what do you expect us to do if they ask us to arrest you?"
"Celebrate, because it means that you've actually taken a decision on the future role of the Justice League. Have you actually voted for the 'recruit everyone' model?" I stare at him for a moment. "Be confused, because the Security Council doesn't issue arrest warrants? Sigh, cut off a hand and post it to the Chief Justice of Iran? Is that.. likely to happen? Do I need to start sleeping on the moon or outside the Sol system?"
Diana takes a calming breath. "Paul, when was the last time you took your rings off?"
"About a week ago. It's not that. I just respond badly to stupidity. Do you want a high end anti-demon magic user..? Or not? Does the Security Council want you to have a high end anti-demon magic user..? Or not? Because those are the options."
No immediate response.
"No, serious question. Because if you're not going to take her then I need to find someone else and that's.. going to take a while."
"Don't." / "It might be best-."
And now I'm thinking of taking him to task on what happens if he dies due to not being sufficiently prepared. I'm thinking of pointing out that Envenomed gangs across the Americas are being replaced -in some cases eaten- by Jizzers. I'm thinking of pointing out that the tiny vial of holy water he's carrying isn't going to make any difference worth mentioning. I'm thinking why are you trying to stop me helping you?
But if he's winding me up to see what happens or has just genuinely decided to be this obstinate, the result of me pushing is the same. I will achieve nothing useful.
And… Just like that… I don't need to keep pushing any longer. Huh. That feels nicer, actually.
"Okay. If you don't like what I've been doing, what would you like me to do instead?"
16th October
15:30 -5
I stride out onto the stage to applause from the audience as Ms Grant stands to welcome me.
Media training, don't fail me now.
Last edited:
- Location
- West Coast
yeah I mean it was definitely a time to catch up, but tbh I've read through nabugate, blackfiregate, citadelcideghazi... getting jimmes rustled about a monotheism feels like a fresh of breath air in comparison.
edit: shit New chapter! is this the beginning of the schism with Batman?
Last edited:
Hestia&theCourt
Turns out we're plural too.
- Location
- In transition
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah, I'm still with Paul on this one. What's the League gonna do, arrest someone for trespassing in a country that they have no authority over?
Empiricist2
Let's play doctor!
- Location
- Baton Rouge
Ok, it makes sense from context who he's talking about, but there are like half a dozen people who answer to "John" in this story. Two of them are even on the League.
Last edited:
- Location
- New England
Yeah, but when you're talking about people who've trespassed in the Garden of Eden which John are you going to immediately think of to the exclusion of all others.
Massgamer
Advance toward the Future
- Location
- The Future
- Status