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the angel has been a lot more reasonable than he thought it would be and seems mostly cool with the fruit being used for good. Presumably, that means he would have given it if asked.
just because the security guard thinks your plan is cool/good doesn't mean his bosses are gonna be okay with you taking stuff from the office. He also said it was thought that 'unfalling' a demon was impossible. Odds are rather against OL being given permission to take a fruit.

I dunno. Maybe he could try and apologize before going "screw you. Lets fight!".

I mean up to this point he has tried literally nothing to get along with them. Maybe a apology would work and maybe it wouldn't but SOME attempt at diplomacy would be nice.
Paul didn't say 'screw you lets fight'. The Angel asked him to repent, OL said he won't (because he'd be lying if he tried), the episode ended.

Next part may well start with the Angel asking 'why not?' and Paul replying 'because I don't actually regret it, and I don't want to lie to you'. and the conversation go from there.
 
I don't think we have enough information on the angels to say this with any certainty as yet.

You might be are definitely correct that we can't be certain. I am going off of the catholic understanding of the subject, which I only mostly remember. And even if I am remembering it correctly, Zoat's interpretation of DC's interpretation of angels might not have that much to do with catholic teachings. We will probably find out next update.
 
But that's kind of the rub. He's NOT sorry that he didn't find a better way of doing it, because he got what he wanted. He got what he wanted, so what could be better? Also, nothing at all indicates that OL is genuinely sorry for his actions.
Then OL is turning into Orange Asshole and it's only matter of time before he'll go full MIIIINE. Because "it's good if I want it" is exactly that step that makes difference.
 
Then OL is turning into Orange Asshole and it's only matter of time before he'll go full MIIIINE. Because "it's good if I want it" is exactly that step that makes difference.

He's been that way for awhile, the difference is that due to his enlightenment he doesn't suffer from the short-term thinking and instant gratification of someone like larfleeze; he can weigh what he wants more and work towards a goal (or rather, he doesn't have to weigh it, because he's constantly aware of all of his desires and their relative weight).
 
He could always ask for forgiveness from the Jewish God. Technically the same guy, but Judaism doesn't have hell, IIRC. I mean, I doubt that he would, but it's still an option.
 
He could always ask for forgiveness from the Jewish God. Technically the same guy, but Judaism doesn't have hell, IIRC. I mean, I doubt that he would, but it's still an option.

I thought it was one monotheistic God that was worshipped all over the universe with lots of different methods of worshiping him (though we don't know if they all get you into heaven), and pagan gods that were worshiped locally. There's no Jewish God or Christian God, just a monotheistic one.
 
Should I be asking Mr Zoat for forgiveness after posting these?

interdictions fields
interdiction fields

covered by the field
covered by the fields

to whoever
to whomever

far more violent place that
far more violent place than

: if it were
; if it were

prepare itself for the potential for
Awkward wording... Maybe "prepare itself for the possibility of"?

Hyn'xx
Hny'xx

one cluster encounter
one cluster encounters

flies into the corridor

practised

moving onto the second point
moving on to the second point

an alternate agreement
an alternative agreement

the Dominator's former
the Dominators' former

check the Green Lanterns
check with the Green Lanterns

Koriand'r's face

carrying on a burning
carrying on into a burning

looking forwards to
looking forward to

and he keeps

I practice
I practise

flying at the drones swarm
flying at the drone swarm

practised
(occurs multiple times)

-lly!

quite so intently

billion units worth
billion units' worth
 
Their cosmology includes nigh-omnipotent beings that can respond to heartfelt resolutions and that demand offerings from believers. They believe in the existence of an afterlife. They preach a morality centered around their discovered ideals, with objective right and wrong. They may not revere any deities as worthy of worship, but that's not a requirement -- Zen Buddhism doesn't either, and nobody denies that's a religion.

Uh, almost none of that is true. Rationalists, with the exception of a few scattered Catholics, do not believe in an afterlife. The hope that death can be forestalled indefinitely through cryonics is a thing, but most are pretty sure it's more likely than not to not work, though with the Large Mammal Prize having been claimed recently the probability cryo -> uploading will work within our lifetimes is rising. (cryo -> healing the body fully is much less likely) "Roko's Basilisk" was a thing like five people believed and EY overreacted to. It is theoretically possible to create infohazards that would actually hold up under scrutiny even if you had resolved not be swayable by them, and dancing near that has no clear benefit, so it was kind of dumb to bring it up, but not as big a deal as people (RationalWiki, mostly) have made it out to be since.

It's been said that it's a novel branch of philosophy, one of whose tenets is that philosophy is stupid. This seems like an accurate criticism. Calling it a religion is not.

(Also, there are a bunch of us here and have been since before the ragequit.)
 
I thought it was one monotheistic God that was worshipped all over the universe with lots of different methods of worshiping him (though we don't know if they all get you into heaven), and pagan gods that were worshiped locally. There's no Jewish God or Christian God, just a monotheistic one.
Doesn't your method of worship determine how your afterlife works?
 
Yes. In essence, they take the view that if it is possible to simulate a universe (or as much of a universe as we can detect; given that FTL isn't a thing, you can have lower resolution on things that humans can't ever see anyway) then it is much more likely that we are inside a simulation. The reasoning goes something like this:

1. Assume that simulating a universe is possible.

2. Assume that people who are capable of simulating a universe will do so for any number of reasons. (anthropology, testing economic theories, video games, whatever)

3. Given the above, it is possible that we are in a simulation.

4. Given the above, it is possible that the people simulating us are also in a simulation.

5. Given the above, there is no particular reason to assume that we are at the top of the stack. (ie, that we are not a simulation)

6. Given that any universe stack would by definition have many more simulated instances than real instances, because there is only one real instance while there can be many simulated universes, is is significantly more likely that we are a simulated universe.

7. Therefore, as it is more likely that we are a simulation, we should treat that as true.
I remember a wonderful story that demonstrated this. Essentially, they invented a computing device with infinite processing power and memory, and started a simulation of their own universe., including the computer. They fast-forward the simulation to the present day, and then they can use the computer to manipulate their universe, because not only are they in a simulation for the above reasons, but also over infinitely many iterations it reached a sort of steady state where each nested simulation was identical.

I cannot for the life of me find the blog where it was posted though. If anyone else remembers it, its the same blog where there's a story about a AI who emergency-uploads the entire population of the earth to escape a asteroid impact, and then transmits them to a nearby star in the hopes of discovering ftl later. There's also a- OH. IT'S THE SAME PLACE THAT HAS RA. I'm dumb. Here.
 
My GOD.....God's just an SI!
LOOK, CREATING A RACE OF BEINGS WHOSE ONLY PURPOSE WAS TO BLINDLY ADORE AND OBEY ME SOUNDED LIKE A GOOD IDEA AT THE TIME, OK!
...
Teenage hormones may have been involved.

On the topic of Rush Hour, wasn't one of them going to join the team at some point?
Ok, if we can only take one of the duo from Rush Hour, I vote for Jackie Chan over Eddie Murphy hands down!
 
Alienated (part 22)
14th October
11:08 GMT -5


3:1 "I do not understand."

And here's where things get frustrating. "Which part of 'no' eludes your comprehension?"

3:2 "You are willing to mutilate yourself, but not ask the pardon of one who loves you and will forgive you anything. It is senseless."

"Okay. For a start, he isn't my god. I haven't gone to church since Zatanna wanted to stop in at one last year and I harangued the choir for making a mess of Good King Wenceslas. I haven't gone into one for devotional purposes for… I don't even know how long. I worship Eris, Hellenistic Goddess of Chaos. When I die, my soul will be judged by Hades, as advised by Aeacus."

3:3 "The Lord Most High takes no offence. He merely asks that you live a moral life, and strive always to turn away from vice."

"What happened to 'I am the Lord your God'?"

3:4 "Jesus Christ."

Okay, that's.. actually a reasonable answer. "Is there some sort of compensation I could pay instead?"

3:5 "Forgiveness cannot be bought or sold. It is not for the harm done to God that you must repent, for He is beyond all harm. It is for the harm done to you, in turning from the path of righteousness."

"I think that you and I have mutually incompatible ideas about what righteousness is. And anyway, I don't feel bad about it; I could say the words, but I'd be lying and I doubt that counts."

3:6 "I commend you for your honesty. Do you understand why theft is wrong?"

"Generally speaking, depriving people of the products of their labour without compensation discourages them from labouring in future and makes the person doing the stealing unproductive, since they merely parasitise on another."

3:7 "Do you feel then that the Lord of Hosts not personally labouring in the gardens undermines his claim to its fruit?"

"No." Heh. "Though that is an amusing image. I didn't know that Angels could joke."

He doesn't smile and he doesn't blink. 3:8 "It was not a joke. I am trying to understand your mindset, that I may better escort you back to the side of righteousness."

"No." Uh… "Maybe, a bit? A farmer labours because they need the food to eat and to trade for other necessities and luxuries. If the story of Genesis is remotely accurate then God has no need for the Trees at all. They're literally just there, doing no one any good."

3:9 "And you believe that your need was greater than God's commandment?"

"God's commandment doesn't apply to me. I'm not descended from Adam and Eve. Or.. any Human from this world. And, actually, yes. If Satanus wasn't reaching out to strike at Earth with all of the forces of Hell then I wouldn't be looking for better anti-Demon weapons. Why haven't Duma and Remiel stopped him?"

3:10 "I do not question the methods of the Most High. And while I understand that the beliefs of the pre-Christian Greeks made no mention of the Garden of Eden, you yourself have travelled it. Surely you now realise-."

"I don't know whether the Humans around here are all descended from them or not, though I rather doubt it. But I'm not." He doesn't immediately respond, though the compassionate gaze is starting to feel a little condescending. "Seriously. Parallel universe. Can you..? Tell when someone's lying to you?"

3:11 "Normally, I can weigh a being's spirit merely by looking at them. Though the magics you have woven about you are giving me difficulty."

"Fine." I move my spell eaters into subspace and float closer to him. "Come on. Hand on forehead, or.. whatever. Ignore the Snake."

He raises his right hand in benediction, then moves it towards me. His skin is utterly opaque; even this close I can't see veins or arteries under it, or any sign that he's not an animated marble statue. My environmental shield parts as he lightly presses against my forehead, letting me feel the wind for the first time since I flew up here. Chilly, but it shouldn't be a problem-.

Um. What's that?

Ring, scan-.

Zauriel lifts his hand away. 3:12 "You are telling the truth. Your nature is strange."

"I know." I drift back to my former position. "So, yes, trespassing and theft, but the aim was to create anti-Demon weaponry and I wasn't breaking any specific prohibition. Are we done now?"

3:13 "Not until you repent."

"But I was specifically trying to serve the greater good! I practice utilitarian ethics, not deontological ones! If you want me to repent, you'll have to demonstrate that there was a better way to achieve what I wanted to achieve which I might reasonably have known about. And if you do that? I will gladly repent and try and do that sort of thing in future. But I'm not going to ever repent for doing something that I couldn't have done any better!"

3:14 "I have been instructed to ensure that you repent, and I will not leave your side until you do."

Getting.. closer to dosing him with pomegranate seeds. As long as I take his heart out before his superiors find out that he knows how to evil he won't actually go to Hell when they cast him out…

No. No. I'm not doing that to someone whose only crime is to be slightly irritating. But having him following me around isn't acceptable. How do I get rid of him?
 
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Okay, seriously, I kinda like Zauriel. "...okay, you worship a different religion, which is... mostly irrelevant for this discussion. Can you apologize for the theft? My god, you're weird." Yep, reasonable angel.
 
Heh, that is the best way for an angel to get to him. He's perfectly fine dealing with wrath and punishment, but while coming from a completely different morality, the angel is reasonable.
 
Typos:

When I die, my soul will be judges by Hades, as advised by Aeacus."
"judged"

As long as I take his heart out before his superiors find out that he knows how to evil he won't actually go to Hell when they cast him out…

No. No. I'm not doing that to someone whose only crime is to be slightly irritating. But having him folling me around isn't acceptable.
"to be evil", "following"
 
The angel has a way to convince Paul:
1) Demonstrate the unreliability of John Constantine's account on the nature of angels. Easily done: "he's John Constantine" is all the argument one needs here.
2) Demonstrate that there exist unbiased records of interaction with angels that Paul could reasonably be expected to access. That should also be doable, they probably exist in several archives of various world religions that had to deal with christian missionaries.
3) Demonstrate how Paul could have acquired the fruit through negotiation.
 
God is messing with Paul. This is hilarious.

From the sounds of it Paul basically needs to honestly apologize for taking the fruit without asking. It seems like they if they read his mind to verify his reasoning that they would've let him take it, which is cool. Angels and the forces of heaven should be overall good forces.
 
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