- Location
- Hampden Park
Since I live in the UK and have never been in court, I know nothing about the way in which real trials are conducted. I specified Missouri because that's where Grayven is being tried.
With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
- Status
Hestia&theCourt
Turns out we're plural too.
- Location
- In transition
- Pronouns
- She/Her
- Location
- The Shadowlands
Get a job like a decent person of society.
I can not believe I said that with a straight face.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hmm...that's hard. I'm really not very informed about that stuff; my uncle knows it well, as a lawyer, but...let me see if I can pull up some overviews from YouTube.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Okay, here:
Note: this is part of a series; I highly recommend watching the next several videos in the series, including the ones about the Supreme Court and Judicial Review.
Also, it's worth noting that cases that start in states can very much go all the way up to the US Supreme Court (the federal one).
EDIT: And it's worth noting that it's pretty likely for Grayven's case to go all the way up to the Supreme Court (note: "Supreme Court" refers to the federal one, unless specifically noted otherwise, like "California Supreme Court")...unnnnnnless getting a presidential pardon throws a wrench into things; how the pardon would come into play/affect that whole process, legally speaking, is something I don't know.
EDIT 2: #19 in the series is the one most relevant to you, btw.
Note: this is part of a series; I highly recommend watching the next several videos in the series, including the ones about the Supreme Court and Judicial Review.
Also, it's worth noting that cases that start in states can very much go all the way up to the US Supreme Court (the federal one).
EDIT: And it's worth noting that it's pretty likely for Grayven's case to go all the way up to the Supreme Court (note: "Supreme Court" refers to the federal one, unless specifically noted otherwise, like "California Supreme Court")...unnnnnnless getting a presidential pardon throws a wrench into things; how the pardon would come into play/affect that whole process, legally speaking, is something I don't know.
EDIT 2: #19 in the series is the one most relevant to you, btw.
Last edited:
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Actually, watching #19 right now, it seems pretty much guaranteed that the case will just go straight to the Supreme Court and skip the state court altogether. This is because Klarion isn't a US citizen...and I don't think Grayven is, either. And Klarion is an international criminal.
In which case, it's far better if Grayven isn't granted a pardon at all, so that the Supreme Court can make a ruling on the case (which is exactly what Grayven wants).
EDIT: Or not. I'm not a lawyer, and this stuff is complicated.
In which case, it's far better if Grayven isn't granted a pardon at all, so that the Supreme Court can make a ruling on the case (which is exactly what Grayven wants).
EDIT: Or not. I'm not a lawyer, and this stuff is complicated.
Last edited:
Rem
fite me
Um, I doubt I'll be of much help, but I studied under some US judges three-to-five years ago (Not getting more specific), notably a Judge in a state's court of first instance. That Judge mostly dealt with plea cases at the time I was there (As I understand it, nothing too exciting was on their docket at the time), but we had quite a few discussions and I was passed to one of their colleagues to watch a high-profile murder case once.
Please keep in mind that my perspective was limited (Both by lack of understanding and the time frame--the internship only lasted a few months, which is nothing in the US legal system).
- Location
- Argentina
"This storyline took too many updates, WITNESS THE POWER OF DEUS EX MACHIDNA!"
Paul, you should be ashamed. Grayven would have stuck the terror thing inside his yellow power battery and be done.
Paul, you should be ashamed. Grayven would have stuck the terror thing inside his yellow power battery and be done.
Stratagemini
Totally a Fire Ferret.
- Location
- Central Park
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They/Them
Hahahah. Fate for the lose!
I'm not a lawyer, but I've watched an annoying number of court things and served on a few federal juries so I do have some perspective on how things flow. Some random bits:
1. Courthouses (at least, any courthouse that deals with real crimes) have security checkpoints at all entrances and armed guards inside. It's super-rare that someone manages to shoot a prisoner in the courtroom anymore, unless they manage to overpower one of said guards (of which there are many).
2. Trials take forever. A murder trial can easily drag on one, two, or even more years.
3. Most of the time, a murder verdict requires a unanimous vote from the jury. If the jury cannot reach a unanimous decision, the trial is called a "mistrial" and the prosecution can choose to retry it, which starts most of it over from the beginning.
4. The jury isn't asked to determine whether someone is guilty of "murder" or whatever. Instead, the jury is presented with the text of a very specific charge "that this person killed this person with this set of conditions" and must determine whether that person did so beyond any reasonable doubt. "Any" and "reasonable" are the keys there (and judges will belabor them quite a lot in the jury instructions). It's quite possible for someone to be relatively innocent in what they did, but have their behavior still fit the criteria of a serious charge.
5. For every minute of trial, there's probably at least an hour of pre-trial legal wrangling. It starts from the very first and just keeps going. Where will the trial be held? What evidence is admissible? What witnesses are permitted?
6. The Fifth Amendment to the US Constitution gives a person a right to remain silent in criminal proceedings. This generally means that the defendant does not "take the stand" (to testify). It is almost always a bad idea.
7. The jury pool is selected at random from a big group that is currently "on duty". Each side will interview this group (usually all at once, and then directing specific questions at individuals) and reject the ones they really don't want. Rejects are limited, though, and it can be impossible to get a completely unbiased jury, especially in the matter of highly public trials. It's also quite possible that, in the months leading up to the trial, the prosecution or defense will make public statements in order to push this bias in their favor.
8. The defendant generally has to wait in jail for the trial, unless they can make themselves not a flight risk in some manner. Generally, this is done by posting a bond with the court as insurance that they will return for trial (though the amounts required for murder trials are very high). The value is set such that it's believe the person won't flee and lose the money. Given the resources of a Lantern this is kind of a difficult prospect and would likely take a personal guarantee from one or more JL members or something.
9. As for the actual trial, the prosecution goes, then the defense. Both sides make an opening statement at the start of the trial and a closing statement at the end. Then the jury deliberates and returns a verdict.
10. For each witness, the "side" that calls them asks questions, then the other side gets to ask them questions (cross-examination). Finally, the original side has a limited ability to ask final questions (redirect) related to the questions and answers from the cross-examination.
11. Self defense is a defense that does not deny the facts of the matter, but argues that they were legal because the defendant had a reasonable fear for his life or the life of others. Missouri is a "obligation to flee" state that says that the defender must first attempt to flee the situation before resorting to deadly force, but I don't think that'll apply in this case.
Err... that may or may not help. Anyway, love the story
1. Courthouses (at least, any courthouse that deals with real crimes) have security checkpoints at all entrances and armed guards inside. It's super-rare that someone manages to shoot a prisoner in the courtroom anymore, unless they manage to overpower one of said guards (of which there are many).
2. Trials take forever. A murder trial can easily drag on one, two, or even more years.
3. Most of the time, a murder verdict requires a unanimous vote from the jury. If the jury cannot reach a unanimous decision, the trial is called a "mistrial" and the prosecution can choose to retry it, which starts most of it over from the beginning.
4. The jury isn't asked to determine whether someone is guilty of "murder" or whatever. Instead, the jury is presented with the text of a very specific charge "that this person killed this person with this set of conditions" and must determine whether that person did so beyond any reasonable doubt. "Any" and "reasonable" are the keys there (and judges will belabor them quite a lot in the jury instructions). It's quite possible for someone to be relatively innocent in what they did, but have their behavior still fit the criteria of a serious charge.
5. For every minute of trial, there's probably at least an hour of pre-trial legal wrangling. It starts from the very first and just keeps going. Where will the trial be held? What evidence is admissible? What witnesses are permitted?
6. The Fifth Amendment to the US Constitution gives a person a right to remain silent in criminal proceedings. This generally means that the defendant does not "take the stand" (to testify). It is almost always a bad idea.
7. The jury pool is selected at random from a big group that is currently "on duty". Each side will interview this group (usually all at once, and then directing specific questions at individuals) and reject the ones they really don't want. Rejects are limited, though, and it can be impossible to get a completely unbiased jury, especially in the matter of highly public trials. It's also quite possible that, in the months leading up to the trial, the prosecution or defense will make public statements in order to push this bias in their favor.
8. The defendant generally has to wait in jail for the trial, unless they can make themselves not a flight risk in some manner. Generally, this is done by posting a bond with the court as insurance that they will return for trial (though the amounts required for murder trials are very high). The value is set such that it's believe the person won't flee and lose the money. Given the resources of a Lantern this is kind of a difficult prospect and would likely take a personal guarantee from one or more JL members or something.
9. As for the actual trial, the prosecution goes, then the defense. Both sides make an opening statement at the start of the trial and a closing statement at the end. Then the jury deliberates and returns a verdict.
10. For each witness, the "side" that calls them asks questions, then the other side gets to ask them questions (cross-examination). Finally, the original side has a limited ability to ask final questions (redirect) related to the questions and answers from the cross-examination.
11. Self defense is a defense that does not deny the facts of the matter, but argues that they were legal because the defendant had a reasonable fear for his life or the life of others. Missouri is a "obligation to flee" state that says that the defender must first attempt to flee the situation before resorting to deadly force, but I don't think that'll apply in this case.
Err... that may or may not help. Anyway, love the story
Lets be honest. She did the right thing calling him. Your "put siskin in charge" plan clearly didn't work, and catching all the runners and putting them back in the village over and over is nothing but a stalling action. All the while your own team members seem to be fleeing from the site as fast as they can, and may or may not be possessed themselves.
Find a way to banish the fear elemental, let Siskin go into the light, find the rest of your team and make sure they aren't mutilating themselves.
Paul seems remarkably unworried for someone who just saw a possessed woman try to cut her arm off with a knife, but it's about time to give up his "clever plan" as a bad job and do something more practical.
Don't let your hate for Fate blind you to the fact that he's one with a reasonable chance of actually solving the problem.
This bodes interesting.
:scepticism: Dude has been a practicing mage for (on and off) at least five thousand years. The fact that wizard-lasers are what we usually see him using in his rare appearances doesn't mean he isn't a versatile magic user.
I was under the impression that enlightenment dealt with that sort of thing. His desire to have good relations with her outweighs his desire for petty revenge and he is consciously aware of it.
If Paul decides to hold a grudge or take offence it will be by no means ineffectual.
Recall the whack-a-mole and family reunion he arrange after the archers pranked him?
Empiricist2
Let's play doctor!
- Location
- Baton Rouge
I think he agrees. He just seems annoyed that Fate had to be called in at all. He certainly doesn't have a practical way to contain the elemental currently, and I imagine he would have called Fate in when he had the situation a bit more stable.
This. He doesn't think that Fate is useless; he disapproves of Fate's actions for moral and personal reasons.
I would personally be happier if it turned out Nabu fixed this whole situation and rapped things up if not only for story telling purposes. Sure the main character achieved enlightenment but that doesn't mean he's going to be right all the time or his decisions end on a good note. Even if he hates nabu because of a personal or moral reason doesn't mean he should get rid of him and id like to point out the only reason he's against him is because he took over someone he actually care about in a way.
Last edited by a moderator:
Checking, you are correct.
- Location
- Oulu
But... isn't Hela Loki's daughter? Or was this one of the things Marvel changed?
Bah, google.
...Nope, Still Loki's.
What do you mean, 'evil'? I don't really understand the meaning....
Wow, you've really managed to take in Paul's PoV.
- Location
- Hampden Park
They are, but at that point the SI has no access to an interstellar database and doesn't remember their name quite right.
I don't think so. Grayven isn't trying to claim that the Constitution says he's right and so there's something wrong with a lesser law and it needs to be struck down. He's saying that the law is stupid.
Last edited:
HanEmpire
Delicious
It's touches like this that make your story so great.
Not to be offensive though, and apologies if it comes off that way, was that the reasoning you used when you wrote Zamoran, or did you shoe-horn it in just now?
Last edited:
- Location
- Hampden Park
Bit of both.
I didn't remember their name accurately, but if I can't then the SI probably wouldn't have been able to either.
If you look at the examples from after he nommed John Stewart's ring, those should all be correct.
Hah, like what happened with Grayven, mistaking Radion for Radon. That was pretty hysterical. Not that he was really in a position to appreciate the humor...
Ganurath
Literal Enthusiast
- Location
- A Valid Location
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hestia&theCourt
Turns out we're plural too.
- Location
- In transition
- Pronouns
- She/Her
How do you practice a tick?
Mithrandir
Endurance and victory!
- Location
- Lighting the Blue Beacons.
First you attend law school...
- Status