With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
- Status
He's already run into anti-orange-light traps on Satanus's minions before. He's also afraid of what assimilating too many demons might do to his ring, or the Orange Light itself.
- Location
- Madness realms
Yeah paul should really be pulling nukes and other doomsday devices out of subspace and activating them.
- Location
- Earth, 3rd rock from the Sun
Not how Death acts. You are ascribing a "trying to improve the human condition is bad-wrong-fun" mindset that is not present in the metaphysics of the setting, just in your knee jerk reactions to changing the status quo.
What should he learn? The only issue was this was not as useful for Jade as he was initially assuming. Studying Lazarus Pits and resurrection/reverse transmigration is useful to his goals beyond that, and has its own inherent worth. That is why when Jade told OL the resurrections were not really going to help her spiritual state she also told him not to stop in the same sentence.
Way too many people seem to be basing their judgements of OL's behavior on the fact his actions got pushback from the literal ruler of Hell. That is dumb.
Hang on. I think I am getting a tingling in my brain. This maybe sounds relevant...maybe the memory of a forgotten chekhov's gun that already existed and was used on Nabu... and I lost it. Eh, it was probably nothing.
Everytime you think more than one person disagrees with you on the internet, easiest to assume it's just Literal Satan in hell operating bunch of sock puppets, trying you make to doubt yourself. You can save yourself a lot introspection and soul searching by doing that. Real time saver there.
Yeah, @Mr Zoat, that bugged me when the Issue of Blazes pocket Hell was mentioned. She seduces people to trap in her little hell for power. OK, makes sense. They are being tormented in there, that seems suboptimal and dumb. If I was making my one little afterlife power battery, I would make it slowly drain MP from anyone inside, at about the rate of natural MP regeneration, no matter what they did. Then make the afterlife a virtual holodeck they can do whatever in. They are paying their way by powering my Godhood, beating the golden goose is dumb. But maybe Hell Magic is just inefficient and wasteful like that, and it's what her soul is aspected to.
But you also said/implied she needed to keep adding souls to her hell or her stuff like her being unaging would stop working. That sounds wrong. Once you have souls in the hell battery to provide power, once you have enough to stop aging, you have enough to stop aging. You stop adding souls you stop gaining more power, you don't lose the power you already have.
lancelot
Completely worth it
It's canon in comics as of the last crisis that they had one of many many many many crisis's but still as of the last one. That fucking around with bringing a lot of people back from the dead causes some bad shit to happen. As in magic in reality in general just losing its fucking mind including a certain angel of Vengeance in green losing his shit.
- Location
- Bay Area
No, no, no. Mushroom clouds aren't the proper way to have more dakka. More dakka is taking more shots. When your individual booms aren't big enough, it's a different problem:
zhuull
SB still lying to protect Racists what else is new
I'd describe it as basically consecrated anti-matter. Only it's been consecrated to the Anti-Monitor, so not only is it going to mutually annihilate any matter it comes in contact with, it also actively hates you while doing so.
- Location
- The UK
While this is a situation in which it would be appropriate to cut loose, singularities and qwa matter are at best sub-optimal options. Paul has no opportunity to disengage and recharge while in Hell, and the Renegade's thoughts on singularity beam projectors are thus:
As for qwa matter, he had to merge with the Ophidian to be able to handle it at all, and even so they noted that they didn't fully understand its nature; they were limited to transforming and aiming an extant sample.
As for qwa matter, he had to merge with the Ophidian to be able to handle it at all, and even so they noted that they didn't fully understand its nature; they were limited to transforming and aiming an extant sample.
A highly anemic effort from Paul. Specialised weapons are all well and good but sometimes you just need to break out the biggatons and brute force the issue.
If his shield can keep him alive they can keep his allies alive.
That is backwards. When faced by massive hordes of hostiles you use the big expensive stuff first then try to pick off the survivors efficiently with the power you have left. Because there will be survivors whether you fire your WMDs first or last.
Paul is a squishy human.A squishy human with a Power Ring, which is just as capable of protecting someone stood next to him as his own body.
- Location
- Tampere
Could Paul not have WMD'd the approaching horde, taken out his lantern and stuck his ring in it and then just spammed wmds until all of hell is slag?
He had access to the Weaponer of Qward, who made him a qwa-matter sword. He should at the very least have some qwa bullets.
- Location
- Ashtabula
I mean...would a gun that shoots Chaos really bother Hellspawn?
- Location
- Oulu
Fairly good point. There's enough Vertigo in here, that Hell may very well be located within dreaming, or the collective subconscious or some finicky thing like that. I think a black hole in the collective subconscious would be bad.
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
I'm with the "he isn't using flashy attacks because they waste power" crowd.
That last paragraph is interesting, though. His Von Neumann horde is growing.
That last paragraph is interesting, though. His Von Neumann horde is growing.
, monstrosities formed of
an Angel
I see tiny flares
a group
- Location
- Sector 2814
Given the situation, and the fact that Satanus is pulling out Agony-tier demons, that's a good way to get that lantern stolen. Probably not the end of the world, but it's at least inconvenient and potentially dangerous.
RichardWhereat
Feanor did nothing wrong.
- Location
- Australia
Probably. Personally though, I'd have just invited Ophidian along to fuck everyone up.
- Location
- U.S.
That's the thing - why would he heal the Joker? He won't do it just because some random guy just tells him to do it. If he has a legitimate reason to do so, e.g. "If you don't heal me, I can't turn off the scry-proof nuke I hid in a major city! HAHAHAHAHA!", then he will be able to because he wants to protect the lives of millions more than he wants to kill someone who's killed hundreds.
There is never a disconnect between "things he wants to do" and "things he will do if he can", for him or anyone else who is rational. And ignoring the fact that sometimes there was still, somehow, a example of disconnect between "want" and "want selfishly" despite Enlightenment (honestly I'd bet its no longer a issue, it was very early on and by now his mindset has changed even further), there should never be a disconnect between "things he wants to do" and "things he wants to do selfishly such that a Orange Ring will not refuse".
"He can't do what he doesn't want to do" doesn't make sense because its actually a contradiction, not just for OL but for anyone, just like saying "the blue dress is gold", or "the open door is shut", or "the true statement is false". And if you really mean "he can't do what he wants with his Orange Ring because he doesn't want to do it selfishly", that shouldn't be possible because everything he wants, he wants selfishly... sort of. Kinda? It's not 100% consistent, but that seems to be the trend at least.
Last edited:
- Location
- South of England
You're conflating want as in 'wishes to do something for one of any number of reasons' with want as in 'is motivated by the metaphysical force of avarice, greed, and desire to pursue'. He might want to do something which he doesn't want to do - maybe because he's motivated by compassion, or hatred, or fear. But just because those things make him want to do something doesn't mean he wants to do it. And without wanting to do something, he can't use his ring to do it, and we also don't know how his soul being made of the Ophidians heart might affect things.
The example earlier in the story was him healing people in the aftermath of the Roanoke incident. He wanted to heal them but it was eventually motivated solely by compassion not avarice, and so he couldn't do so.
Also, want doesn't look like a word anymore.
hance1986
The One Above All.
All true, but now the white hats can be told about the existence of Hell technology.
I want to see Cyberdemons.
Nero200
High Priest of Eito, Part Time Nyar.
We already had one, I think.
One of John's old buddies.
Silverias
Seeing is Believing
- Location
- Squiddy Places
I didn't say it would. People were just going on about a weapon from Eris.
I was wondering where this whole resurrection plot was going to go.
Hell was a surprise.
Makes sense though.
Hell was a surprise.
Makes sense though.
- Location
- U.S.
Yeah, that's sort of the confusing bit. The impression I get from Enlightenment and his current mindset is that all of the "reasons" in "wishes to do something for any number of reasons" are want; he literally has a orange and orange mentality. He's demonstrated that he's able to use a orange ring to act with compassion, or hatred, or fear in the past, or at least shown that you can't distinguish between the emotion in question and avarice.
One notable example, from when he's merged with the Ophidian:
He isn't technically enlightened at this point, but since he's full-on Paulphidian at this point and his text is only orange, I think it's safe to say he's only feeling avarice. But, that sure looks like rage to me, it has a loud "KILL YOU" scream and everything.
You could absolutely color that all red and it'd make perfect sense, but at this point above all others you'd expect him to only feel avarice. The confusing part is, if for some reason he was using a ring to shoot a orange pulse, if it was red the ring wouldn't work, but if it was orange it would. And you could define the situation as either of those two without necessarily being wrong.
Ultimately I think the problem comes back to DC's strict and naive definitions of emotions. If you give hard, exclusionary definitions for emotions and have real consequences for which emotion is being used at any particular time, things start to break down when you get a situation which doesn't have a single emotion.
This wouldn't be so confusing if DC used a more sensible approach, like having all actions based in self-interest as per normal and then a sudo-magical universal "emotion" is assigned to it based on the intent of the action. This could actually be how it works right now, but that raises the question of what is enlightenment if you can still get 201 error, incorrect emotion. Please try again later. The description we've gotten is that Paul has perfect knowledge of his own desires and how they combine, so if we go with a sensible self-interest model then that should mean that all of his actions fall under avarice because they're all ultimately self-interest and he can see this. But... it doesn't.
I don't know, its too early for metaphysics discussions.
edit: not just intent. More like intent+outcome. Eg, breaking things is most likely red, unless you're re-breaking someone's bone so it can heal properly which is compassion, unless you're breaking the bone to get it to heal properly so they pay you money because you're a doctor which is avarice, etc.
Last edited:
- Status