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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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Nervaqus987 said:
Lucifer has already abdicated Hell in setting about thirty years ago. So he doesn't give a shit.

As for the Presence, Zoat's mixing in a fair bit of Hellblazer and thus Hell is what grew up around the First of the Fallen when the Presence told him to begone from his sight and thus Hell is conceptually out of his awareness.
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Would you give a shit if an Ant declared itself King of your former home?

I sure wouldn't.

On the hand if that Ant burned the place down I would, at the very least, be interested in learning just how that happened.
 
Something to remember: he's in Hell.

and Hell works on its own rules.

In Hell, you Never get what you Want, you get what you Fear.

So it may well be that Paul's Power is actively being opposed by the Nature of Hell itself.

By contrast, if he had a Yellow Ring he might well be drowning in power by now.
 
Cherico said:
Right so as smart as OL is....he litterally did this to himself.

Hopefully he will learn from this one.
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He brought the world's leading expert on Lazarus Pits. He brought a necromancer. He brought an expert in Green magic and a magic generalist and consulted with someone who uses Demon magic. None of them knew this could happen.

What exactly did you want him to do?
 
BrambleThorn said:
Everytime you think more than one person disagrees with you on the internet, easiest to assume it's just Literal Satan in hell operating bunch of sock puppets, trying you make to doubt yourself. You can save yourself a lot introspection and soul searching by doing that. Real time saver there.
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I don't write this story for the benefit of Satan.
Yeah, @Mr Zoat, that bugged me when the Issue of Blazes pocket Hell was mentioned. She seduces people to trap in her little hell for power. OK, makes sense. They are being tormented in there, that seems suboptimal and dumb. If I was making my one little afterlife power battery, I would make it slowly drain MP from anyone inside, at about the rate of natural MP regeneration, no matter what they did. Then make the afterlife a virtual holodeck they can do whatever in. They are paying their way by powering my Godhood, beating the golden goose is dumb. But maybe Hell Magic is just inefficient and wasteful like that, and it's what her soul is aspected to.

But you also said/implied she needed to keep adding souls to her hell or her stuff like her being unaging would stop working. That sounds wrong. Once you have souls in the hell battery to provide power, once you have enough to stop aging, you have enough to stop aging. You stop adding souls you stop gaining more power, you don't lose the power you already have.
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What makes you think she's draining MP from the souls?

What she's actually doing is making her pocket Hell as much like real Hell as possible to maintain a sympathy resonance that lets her use it to draw power from real Hell without having to have anything to do with other Demons.
ThrawnCA said:
, monstrosities formed of
an Angel
I see tiny flares
a group
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Thank you, corrected.
Vaermina said:
Would you give a shit if an Ant declared itself King of your former home?

I sure wouldn't.

On the hand if that Ant burned the place down I would, at the very least, be interested in learning just how that happened.
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Currently, Duma and Remiel would be more of a concern.
 
Mr Zoat said:
He brought the world's leading expert on Lazarus Pits. He brought a necromancer. He brought an expert in Green magic and a magic generalist and consulted with someone who uses Demon magic. None of them knew this could happen.

What exactly did you want him to do?
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If we are being completely fair though while what happened might not have been a "known danger" it's an easily predictable one given "If one thing can go through a door so can others" is more or less a staple of summoning magic in DC.
 
Vaermina said:
If we are being completely fair though while what happened might not have been a "known danger" it's an easily predictable one given "If one thing can go through a door so can others" is more or less a staple of summoning magic in DC.
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Given the multi-thousand year old necromancer didn't bring this up, it seems like this isnt the case. And it's hardly a door when the procedure calls for a specific soul. It doesn't leave a portal open next to someone for them to wander through, it draws them directly.
Buggy said:
Huh, okay, fair point. I misremembered there.

Strongly defined DC universe emotions can be confusing.
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Yeah, it's not super obvious. There have been other bits where the point is made, but I can't remember the context of those.
 
Yog said:
Also, just realized: Paul doesn't assimilate sapient beings, but he is not averse to creating blank clones. He could easily make a blank clone, implant a sub-sapient AI into it, Garrick it, then assimilate it, to produce a flash-fast orange light construct. Give it the Sword of the Fallen, and he's set to destroy hell's forces.
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He might be able to create the life form in question, but he wouldn't be able to assimilate it. Assimilation requires that the target has a strong connection to the emotion of avarice. An intelligence sufficiently sub-sapient to avoid tripping Paul's "do not want" reaction would also be sufficiently sub-sapient to not experience metaphysically-significant emotions.

That said, his ability to create such a life form in the first place is a little bit questionable anyway. How do you implant an AI in a blank brain at all? Especially one that's close enough to Earth-magic-compatible for the Garrick formula to work on it? You could probably work out how to artificially construct a brain that's compatible with some form of software that a power ring can compile, but I don't think that would be metaphysically Earth-like enough for its soul structures to accept the alchemical formulas.
 
Coda said:
He might be able to create the life form in question, but he wouldn't be able to assimilate it. Assimilation requires that the target has a strong connection to the emotion of avarice. An intelligence sufficiently sub-sapient to avoid tripping Paul's "do not want" reaction would also be sufficiently sub-sapient to not experience metaphysically-significant emotions.

That said, his ability to create such a life form in the first place is a little bit questionable anyway. How do you implant an AI in a blank brain at all? Especially one that's close enough to Earth-magic-compatible for the Garrick formula to work on it? You could probably work out how to artificially construct a brain that's compatible with some form of software that a power ring can compile, but I don't think that would be metaphysically Earth-like enough for its soul structures to accept the alchemical formulas.
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Not really. Paul was perfectly ok with assimilating Tiki, which he assumed was somewhere between a cat and a human in intelligence. So, make superdogs, and assimilate them. That's probably the easiest option, really.
 
Empiricist2 said:
Given the multi-thousand year old necromancer didn't bring this up, it seems like this isnt the case. And it's hardly a door when the procedure calls for a specific soul. It doesn't leave a portal open next to someone for them to wander through, it draws them directly.
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It's the demonologist that's thousands of years old, not the necromancer.

Further the pit resurrects people using purely alchemical means and not in combination with ritual or verbal magic that would allow them to specify what soul is being called back using that souls name.
 
Vaermina said:
It's the demonologist that's thousands of years old, not the necromancer.

Further the pit resurrects people using purely alchemical means and not in combination with ritual or verbal magic that would allow them to specify what soul is being called back using that souls name.
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No, Thana's at least two thousand years old. I haven't decided exactly how old Ambrose is, but I'm leaning towards early fifties.
 
Yog said:
So, make superdogs, and assimilate them. That's probably the easiest option, really.
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Maybe he could visit some animal shelters, pick up whichever critters seem like the right combination of tough and unlikely-to-be-adopted, then Danner them and assimilate. OTOH he does kind of consider assimilation to be worse than death, so he might not like doing that to non-evil animals.

Do DC animals have souls and afterlives?
 
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Mr Zoat said:
He brought the world's leading expert on Lazarus Pits. He brought a necromancer. He brought an expert in Green magic and a magic generalist and consulted with someone who uses Demon magic. None of them knew this could happen.

What exactly did you want him to do?
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Not repeatedly mess with the great beyond?

Expecially people who were sent to hell when he is already on hells bad side.
 
Vaermina said:
Thana? I thought we were talking about Beulah...
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?
Why would you think that I think that Beulah is thousands of years old?
Cherico said:
Not repeatedly mess with the great beyond?

Especially people who were sent to hell when he is already on hells bad side.
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What section of this story specifically made you think that Paul "I am perfectly willing to stab angels to death" Candle is a particularly reverent person in regards to higher powers?

Doing what the rulers of hell don't want you to do is a fairly decent guide to morality, actually.
 
So do the spelleaters not counter enemies attempting to teleport you?
Or was being drawn into Hell different then a hostile spell shifting your position?
 
Say, the candle thing reminds me, did we ever find out why he couldn't speak his last name or is that still an outstanding mystery?
 
ThrawnCA said:
Still a mystery.
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Also don't delve into that too deeply, its a SI so that is Zoat's real name, last time someone even said they had figured it out from clues hidden in the story they got banned.

And don't use the d-word! The one that rhymes with Dax! That will also get you banned! Also it probably can't hurt to avoid thinking about it whenever possible, and you should also probably cover "P---" with a sharpie whenever you see it in the story.
 
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