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That's what Batman brings to the League; contacts, resources and his skills as a detective. Putting him on the punching line makes no sense at all in League events. That's also why Green Arrow -despite being as 'super' as Batman- doesn't make sense to me. He doesn't have those skills and is always going to be overpowered in that sort of fight without anything useful to add in another field to make up for it.

because hes not going to be in the punching range, if he is then someone needs to do the boondocks exorcism scene with the writer and the dictionary definition of bow (the read

green arrow works because while you are dealing with these gnats hitting you, theirs annoying git who keeps shooting you with arro- and now you've been flash-banged. or set in industrial polymer while those gnats now hit you unimpeded.

also arrows that can open phantom zone portals exist. i know red arrow has one
 
It seemed rather obvious to me that I was not intending for my statement to be interpreted by the exact definitions of terms I was using, but if you wish for me to be precise, I'll reiterate. Do you (or anyone else here) really think that you personally have come up with some crazy new loophole that Mr Zoat has yet to think of? Specifically, do you (or anyone else here) really think that Mr Zoat has not thought of the who/what/when/why/how of having the Tamaranian sisters have their powers, and that you are informing him of some unforeseen new path the story could take?
Up until the last few words, I would have said yes, I think we could indeed have done so. We as a community do rather enjoy exploring the universe of possibilities within the established boundaries set by Mr Zoat's written setting, and I'm fairly certain some of the ideas we've come up with aren't among those that Zoat himself has considered in the past.

However, when you add the qualifier of "new path the story could take" then that changes things. For the most part, I'm fairly certain that Mr Zoat already has his mind made up about the path of the story, and it would take something fairly noteworthy to affect things beyond the level of cosmetic description. This is backed up by the fact that he's got several days' worth of updates already written. That's not to say it CAN'T happen, because there have been a few examples in history of community discussion prompting more substantial changes, but I wouldn't consider exercises in creative ringslinging to be among the likely subjects. (That said, we have occasionally gotten Mr Zoat to improvise rationalizations for things.)
 
While I do like this interpretation, I think that the explosion will be because of Larfleeze. Even disregarding the link in the last line, orange rings don't create new desires, they enhance the ones you already have. So this Citadelian probably already wanted to be emperor at some level. Unless the cybernetics only activate on speech, not thought, then he should have exploded a while ago.

While I admit I may have been caught up in the moment to a degree, I did include the qualifier that the Citadel should only be eradicated if they were all like the Citadelian shown here.

Why though? The process itself is likely rather unpleasant and fraught with danger if everything doesn't go well. For what gain? They get enhanced strength and starbolts, both of which can be superseded by technology. Give them some good power armor and a selection of plasma based weapons to choose from and the results are nearly indistinguishable. There is some value in their weapons being inherent, but the danger of the process and the ability to change weapons outweighs that.

And if they're getting power rings anyways, then the offensive and defensive options offered by a ring completely outclass any boost they could get from enhanced physiology.
There's a difference between idle thoughts of "it sure would be nice to be the emperor" and actively planning to overthrow them.
 
green arrow works because while you are dealing with these gnats hitting you, theirs annoying git who keeps shooting you with arro- and now you've been flash-banged. or set in industrial polymer while those gnats now hit you unimpeded.

So, in short, he's about as useful as a police officer would have been? Because if you really think the kind of threats the Justice League faces are going to be anything more than inconvenienced by industrial polymer, you need to take a good hard look at the League's rogue galleries.

also arrows that can open phantom zone portals exist. i know red arrow has one

That'd be great, if he ever used them. Also, Not Necessarily on Earth-16.
 
So, in short, he's about as useful as a police officer would have been? Because if you really think the kind of threats the Justice League faces are going to be anything more than inconvenienced by industrial polymer, you need to take a good hard look at the League's rogue galleries.



That'd be great, if he ever used them. Also, Not Necessarily on Earth-16.

not every issue of issue of justice league involves them fighting darkseid brainiac or amazo.

also inconvenienced means a lot when your being punched by about... six superheroes whose superpowers involve hitting things really hard based on the first team.

also he did. against superboy prime
 
not every issue of issue of justice league involves them fighting darkseid brainiac or amazo.

...what. The entire point of the League is that they deal with threats beyond the capacity of normal humans to deal with. If the situation is dire enough to require the League in the first place, the situation is too dire for Green Arrow to be involved.

also inconvenienced means a lot when your being punched by about... six superheroes whose superpowers involve hitting things really hard based on the first team.

No, it's an inconvenience. If the situation could be solved by punching from six directions at once in the first place, you wouldn't even need Green Arrow because most people can't defend in six directions at once. If they can, Green Arrow's useless. If they can't defend against it, but are tough enough to take it, Green Arrow's still useless.

also he did. against superboy prime

Yes. Let's shoot arrows at the guy who moves faster than the speed of light. I'm sure that'll work.
 
...what. The entire point of the League is that they deal with threats beyond the capacity of normal humans to deal with. If the situation is dire enough to require the League in the first place, the situation is too dire for Green Arrow to be involved.

just because a situation requires the league doesn't mean or allow for the whole league.

No, it's an inconvenience. If the situation could be solved by punching from six directions at once in the first place, you wouldn't even need Green Arrow because most people can't defend in six directions at once. If they can, Green Arrow's useless. If they can't defend against it, but are tough enough to take it, Green Arrow's still useless.

1) i used the industrial polymer as an example. 2) like i said, paying attention to people at an intimate distance is different than some asshole on the roof or a block away.

Yes. Let's shoot arrows at the guy who moves faster than the speed of light. I'm sure that'll work.

dude, AOE?
 
just because a situation requires the league doesn't mean or allow for the whole league.

Look, name a situation that would require the League but would allow Green Arrow to contribute. C'mon, I'll wait. Any situation that allows Green Arrow to contribute can be done faster and with less collateral damage if Superman or the Flash take out the trash at superspeed, or if Martian Manhunter mind-whammies them, or if Green Lantern does just about anything that isn't a green boxing glove. In short, Green Arrow is a street-level hero, and the League is a global-level response team. You don't take a knife to a gun fight, you don't rob a bank when Superman's in town, and you don't take a street-level hero to a global-level fight.

1) i used the industrial polymer as an example. 2) like i said, paying attention to people at an intimate distance is different than some asshole on the roof or a block away.

It's all situational awareness in the end, and anyone with enough combat sense to take on the whole League at once will be able to make it so that the multiple melee combatants can block line of sight most of the time, assuming they even care. Darkseid sure doesn't. If you don't want me to pick apart the industrial polymer idea, come up with a better idea, such as, say, technology based on Mr. Freeze's gun. Against some League-class people, that might actually be useful. You know, if Green Arrow would actually use that, instead of shooting boxing glove arrows at people. Which is part of Green Arrow's problem: he could, theoretically, leverage his skills into something useful, but he persists in being dumb about it. How many foam arrows could he fit in his quiver if he wasn't wasting space with the boxing glove arrows?


Dude, faster than light. The guy can grab the arrow in midair and stab you in the eye with it before it lands. Sure, maybe the AoE will still hit him, but you'll be taking the brunt of it. Or he can just move behind you. And that is even assuming that this AoE is both something that will hurt the target and won't damage your fellow combatants in melee range.
 
Look, name a situation that would require the League but would allow Green Arrow to contribute. C'mon, I'll wait. Any situation that allows Green Arrow to contribute can be done faster and with less collateral damage if Superman or the Flash take out the trash at superspeed, or if Martian Manhunter mind-whammies them, or if Green Lantern does just about anything that isn't a green boxing glove. In short, Green Arrow is a street-level hero, and the League is a global-level response team. You don't take a knife to a gun fight, you don't rob a bank when Superman's in town, and you don't take a street-level hero to a global-level fight.
The Flash can take out N cans of garbage in the time Green Arrow can take out 1, there are N+1 cans of garbage, and the rest of the League aren't available.

And that's picking something that the Flash's powers are particularly suited for and Green Arrow's skills are particularly unsuited for! Non-dangerous work which can be performed at full speed from close range.
If a villain has a constant aura of deadly cold, then Green Arrow with his ranged arrows is a simpler solution than the Flash who will need to set up an environmental takedown or call in help.

And finally: We've seen AMAZO. Superpowers can be copied - Green Arrow is one of a small handful of non-superpowered specialists. Magic that says, "No superpowers!" doesn't bother him; Amazo doesn't get stronger from him; scans that detect people with superpowers but ignore normal humans ignore him (and we know that Power Rings can very easily fall into the trap of doing exactly that type of scan, or scanning for 'dangerous weapons' and forgetting that arrows aren't just for sport.)

Is Green Arrow the top of the power chart? Heck no!
Is he the middle of the power chart? Nope, not even that!
But he IS on the power chart and he IS useful.
 
Tamanarama (part 19)
13th July
10:29 GMT


Accelerated perception.

Compliance.

Strands of orange light reach out from the Ceebiss ring to the glowing meat-chunks that used to be Admiral Drolyk, grabbing them and turning them construct-orange. The Admiral's head is largely intact, and I wonder for a moment if he's still aware as the tendrils latch onto it and convert it as well. There's a quiet 'fizz' from my environmental shield as it vaporises the spray of blood that hits me, and a quiet 'splat' as the rest of it splashes against the ground and the astonished Fon.

The incandescent ring floats from Admiral Drolyk's phantasmal finger to the approximate centre point of the explosion as I fly back towards Fon, laying my left hand on his right shoulder.

Hellwraith, possess.

I hunger.

The ring on my left hand shimmers for a half-second, but there's no other outward sign as it flows into its new host.

End acceleration.

Compliance.

Chunks of construct-flesh impact on the floor and walls as I frantically start scanning the princesses. Implants, but not dead man's switched. Ring? Good, disintegrate them and absorb the components.

Compliance.

The chunks of construct-flesh begin rolling across the floor to a point just behind the ring. With every remaining part of the Admiral converted, it keeps glowing. A translucent image begins forming next to it, ghostly hands reaching for the ring and a snarling muzzle baring its teeth at the room.

"More thieves! Everyone tries to take what's mine from me!"

Another blast of light from the ring and Larfleeze's construct-self becomes a little more substantial. Behind him, the Construct-Lantern form of Admiral Drolyk begins pulling itself together. Ring, railguns, load crumbler rounds. And heal the princesses as best you can.

Compliance.

Larfleeze clutches the Ceebiss ring to his chest, his eyes moving briefly over the shuddering Fon before fixing on me. "You! You're already dead!"

"
Hello, Larfleeze."

He bends over as if trying to mantle the ring as he uses his left hand to conceal it from me completely. Interesting that he only wears one ring himself. His right hand extends towards me, claws reaching out-. That hand collapses into orange mist as my crumbler round hits it.

"I'm still alive and still stealing from you. And there's nothing you can do to stop me."

"No! No! I'm going to find you! I'm going to take everything back! And I'm going to-"
He lunges forwards. "-eat you!"

I back up, crumblers striking his face and chest and turning them to orange mist. He falters for a moment, pulling back so that the light from the ring can knit him back together.

Hellwraith, use Fon's knowledge to deactivate the Tamaranians' implants and deactivate all anti-Lantern measures.

I obey.

Admiral Drolyk has fully pulled himself back together, his eyes glowing orange as he glowers at me. Oh, don't even. You had that coming.

"Tear you apart!"

Larfleeze ignores the possessed Fon in favour of trying to rend me with his talons. Retreat and fire, retreat and fire! Chunks of his body disintegrate, but he keeps trying to come on. Shooting the Ceebiss ring might end the fight and it might blow a circular hole a mile across in this facility and take me and the Tamaranians with it.

"I'm stealing your stuff, Larfleeze! And you can't tell where I am, can you? Because I'm clever and you're stupid! Stupid Larfleeze! Big stupid-head Larfleeze!"

"Rraaaaaaggghh!"
He jerks his right hand forwards, a beam of orange shitshitshit! I raise my hands, generating a construct shield. Can't let him hit me. Or anything else. There are all sorts of power relay systems and potential poisons, to say nothing of him probably being powerful enough to collapse the rock around us. His beam hits my shield and immediately fractures it. I abandon it and create another. Come on, he's a powerful idiot, how do I-?

I stick out my right hand and call my personal lantern out of subspace as filaments reach out from my left arm and reach around my shield to touch his beam.

The Ophidian Feeds.

"You even stole my Ophidian from me!"

"
My Ophidian." Orange incandescence flares from my filaments as Larfleeze's beam fades and falters, the excess power flowing into my personal lantern. "You're not very good at this. Maybe you should ask for help?"

Please do that. I can draw power away from him, but-

Sixty two percent power remaining. Sixty one. Sixty.

-it's doing a number on my power reserves and even Larfleeze isn't dumb enough to let me recharge in the middle of a fight.

Larfleeze drops his beam and darts forward again, and I reward him with a crumbler to the face. Okay, this I can work with. Hellwraith?

Anti-Lantern measures no longer function. The chattels are liberated.

Good work. Now jam all local non-Lantern FTL and communications. Trap them around the planet.

I obey.

I load a tungsten round into the railgun, batter Larfleeze with crumblers until there's little left but mist, then shoot the solid metal slug into the Ceebiss ring. It sails backwards out of the Larfleeze cloud and slams into the far wall, prompting me to generate construct barriers around-

Fifty five percent power remaining.

-the princesses just in case. No, no explosion. Larfleeze remanifests, glowers, snarls, and then notices Admiral Drolyk. Yes, yes, come on! Put one and one together and get x>1!

"I know where you are! I'm going to send the entire Corps after you!"

'All the more to steal from you' might put him off or encourage him to come himself. Something else… "I'm too good for you! You'll never send enough! I'll win!"

"RAAAAAAAAAGHHHHH!"
The Larfleeze projection grabs the Ceebiss ring and stares at it for a moment. "Ceebiss, kill him! New Guy, kill him! EVERYONE, KILL HIM!"

Thank you.

Larfleeze tosses the Ceebiss ring aside. It travels a few metres and then stops in the air. It shimmers orange, then expands outwards into the form of the six legged four armed Centaur-like alien I saw when I tried touching it. The Admiral slams his right fist into his left palm while his partner lands and lowers his head to gore me with his horns.

Okay, don't know exactly how long that gives me… Hellwraith, open every internal door.

I obey.

"
See you, Larfleeze."

Three crumbler rounds and his construct image dissolves to nothing just as Ceebiss' horns hit my chest plate.
 
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ok, kinda wondering what his play here is. Does he intend to throw him into the meat grinder to soften him up?


He is trapping the Citadelians and their forces in the system, he will fight the construct lanterns disable them with crumblers and then leave the place with every Tamaranian, ensuring the destruction and assimilation of everyone that remains behind.
 
The Flash can take out N cans of garbage in the time Green Arrow can take out 1, there are N+1 cans of garbage, and the rest of the League aren't available.

And that's picking something that the Flash's powers are particularly suited for and Green Arrow's skills are particularly unsuited for! Non-dangerous work which can be performed at full speed from close range.
If a villain has a constant aura of deadly cold, then Green Arrow with his ranged arrows is a simpler solution than the Flash who will need to set up an environmental takedown or call in help.

Even in Young Justice, Flash is acknowledged as being close to lightspeed. Under what circumstances could Green Arrow take out one before Flash takes them all out? No, seriously, I can't conceive of any situation where this would be the case, unless Flash is showboating for some reason.

Also, unless it's an aura of instant death, lightspeed movement means that Flash can punch him with the force of a nuke and be out of there before the cold/heat/whatever has a chance to really affect him. No more complicated than Green Arrow's ranged projectiles, and hits harder to boot. Even if it is an aura of instant death, Flash can throw just about anything and it will hit harder than almost anything in Green Arrow's quiver.

And finally: We've seen AMAZO. Superpowers can be copied - Green Arrow is one of a small handful of non-superpowered specialists. Magic that says, "No superpowers!" doesn't bother him; Amazo doesn't get stronger from him; scans that detect people with superpowers but ignore normal humans ignore him (and we know that Power Rings can very easily fall into the trap of doing exactly that type of scan, or scanning for 'dangerous weapons' and forgetting that arrows aren't just for sport.)

Is Green Arrow the top of the power chart? Heck no!
Is he the middle of the power chart? Nope, not even that!
But he IS on the power chart and he IS useful.

And Batman can't do all of this why, exactly? Frankly, Batman does everything Green Arrow does, better, and does stuff that Green Arrow doesn't even try to do, such as information gathering and strategic directions. If Batman wasn't on the League, maybe there'd be a point to Green Arrow being there, but as it is, he's redundant in an already somewhat-niche role. Put him on the backup team instead of the main team, if you must have him around. That way he'll be there when you need him, but he won't be forcing the actually useful members to waste time stopping him from dying in a fight against Darkseid/Mongul/Wotan/what have you.
 
Okay, he wants all the orange constructs in one location. Too many to try and kill them with his super sword. The Tamaranians are still here so he's probably not going to blow the station up, I doubt the Psion teleporter can move everyone in time. He wants all the doors open so either he wants people to easily move our he wants something to spread through our the base. Poison gas and fire won't do much.

Or be wants Larfleeze alone.

Only thing I can think of is he's going to steal Larfleeze's army and our feed them to the Ophidian/his ring.
 
He is trapping the Citadelians and their forces in the system, he will fight the construct lanterns disable them with crumblers and then leave the place with every Tamaranian, ensuring the destruction and assimilation of everyone that remains behind.

yeah, but he did't need to actually be present to do that did he? Like if someone else had put that ring on wouldn't lafreez have shown up anyways?
 
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