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He's also said that the Speed Force is not a thing. Consequently, if the universe treats the Flashes differently because they go fast, he is, in fact, using a version of the Speed Force despite his protests to the contrary.
That's something of a non sequitur. Just because the universe treats the Flashes differently because they go fast doesn't mean that there's a singular, explicit, coherent, self-contained phenomenon that causes all of the observed effects. It's just the way the world works, and you don't have to have something called a "Speed Force" to make that happen. In particular, it's not necessary for a character to tap into the Speed Force in order to be a speedster, and it's not necessary to research the Speed Force to have more understanding about how speedsters work. And in fact, it's vaguely hinted that it ISN'T a single, coherent phenomenon, because different speedsters can do different things with their speed instead of it all being granted by a centralized source.

It's really more of an ontological question than anything; obviously, speedsters have effects CONSISTENT with the Speed Force, but whether or not that IS the Speed Force is a matter of how the writer wants to handle it.

Aren't speedsters naturally (well post transformation) much more durable than baselines in order to help bolster them against the forces acting against them? Flash and Superman can both move at faster then sound speeds easily, but if Flash's body is basically baseline then Superman is hitting with much more force at the same speed even if you don't factor in his strength.

So we have a world where Batman somehow strikes with more force then the Flash. Wonderful. As I highly doubt either Barry or Wally train as obsessively as Bruce.

Super speed seems a whole lot less impressive, and drops the speedsters down several notches. Of course, it also makes me wonder how Wally manages to knock out anyone. If he's only hitting as hard as your average teenager who kinda works out and trains.
Thus far, Earth-16-Zoat has speedsters able to derive SOME kinetic benefit over unpowered individuals, just not as much as speed alone would suggest they do. And it appears that speedsters aren't so much "more durable" as it is that they don't interact 100% with the rest of the world.

The BIGGEST benefits of being a speedster appear to be reaction times (if you can move at the speed of thought, all you need is to be aware of a threat to avoid being hit by it) and area control (if you can be wherever you want on the battlefield, you always have the initiative and can strike from anywhere).
 
Well, There Is a Time Factor in the inertia Equations, so I could see that.
or it's like the Alcubierre drive -the Flash Isn't Actually Moving - they're warping space around themselves.
I had thought of that, but that's not specifically the way I'm envisioning it. I'm instead seeing an expansion of the mass and energy terms in some equations to account for the reduced interaction of super-speed objects with normal-speed objects. (This is complicated by the fact that gravity still works normally for a speedster in their own frame of reference.)
 
How Worm handles superspeed is that it's personal timeshifting, along with phasing your mass out of reality. Velocity sees himself as going normal speed, everyone else is just slow, and his punches don't do much because he can barely interact with everything else. Even that would break down if he was able to go light-speed like the Flash can, though...

Course, DC just goes with vigorous handwaving, which also works perfectly fine. Trying to make superpower physics self-consistent is an exercise in futility.
 
Look at what he knows from clues dropped here.


And add that to out of context knowledge, in addition to a power ring.

He could run them through the list one by one till something happens, since he knows it is the machine that ends up exploding, not them.
Or just scan the princesses and run simulations of procedures the machine is capable of in those scans to see what unlocks teh powerz.
I can't see either of the sisters volunteering to undergo hours of agony in a process that 'should' give them a couple new powers (Super strength and starbolts), especially when they have no idea who the hell this guy is.

While I do like this interpretation, I think that the explosion will be because of Larfleeze. Even disregarding the link in the last line, orange rings don't create new desires, they enhance the ones you already have. So this Citadelian probably already wanted to be emperor at some level. Unless the cybernetics only activate on speech, not thought, then he should have exploded a while ago.
The Citadelians are all clones of The Emperor. Of course, they are going to desire to be the guy in charge. The Admiral just suddenly had a chance of actually doing it.

While I admit I may have been caught up in the moment to a degree, I did include the qualifier that the Citadel should only be eradicated if they were all like the Citadelian shown here.
Again, the entire race is clones of the First Citadelian/Emperor, and likely have personalities quite similar to his as well , either through imprinting (if they download the 'minds' into the clones) or picked up from the Citadel culture

Why, exactly? Surely the Psions would have had preparations and countermeasures ready for containing an experiment whose success they were actively trying to achieve?
Empowering the princesses was not a 'success' result. The experiment was 'Tamaranians can absorb lots of solar energy. Let's pump these two with way more than their bodies would normally accept and see how much it takes to make them explode/self-ignite/etc'. Less science and more sadistic torture.

He's also said that the Speed Force is not a thing. Consequently, if the universe treats the Flashes differently because they go fast, he is, in fact, using a version of the Speed Force despite his protests to the contrary.
The Director/writers of Young Justice also said there 'no Speed Force' in that world, partly due to thinking it sounds silly.

Super speed seems a whole lot less impressive, and drops the speedsters down several notches. Of course, it also makes me wonder how Wally manages to knock out anyone. If he's only hitting as hard as your average teenager who kinda works out and trains.
Flash may not hit as hard as Batman, but he can probably get off a dozen plus punches in the time it takes Batman to throw 1.
 
Tamanarama (part 20)
13th July
10:32 GMT


The impact knocks me back, Ceebiss grabbing onto my sides with his upper arms as he tries to shove me into the far wall. I retrain my railguns on his wrists and fire, then pull myself downwards with the ring's flight aura.

"Rueeerh!"

I fly myself feet first between his legs. His front left and middle right hooves manage to stamp on me and there's.. some sort of matter disrupting effect in play, but the fact that I'm moving and he's not flying means that he can't maintain pressure long enough to eat through my armour. Okay, what next? With Larfleeze gone I could theoretically subvert-.

No.

I come upright behind Ceebiss as he tries and fails to arrest his momentum, careening into the far wall face first and managing to dent the metal. I generate construct armour and raise my fists just in time to block a punch from Admiral Drolyk, bracing myself on thin air with the ring's flight aura. His initial swing blocked, Drolyk attempts to grapple me. He certainly.. hasn't.. lost any of the strength that Citadelians are.. infamous for. My railguns shoot Ceebiss in the face as I plant my feet and push back, construct muscle straining against my armour's synthetic musculature. Ceebiss… Some sort of ultra-fine construct barrier appears around him as he remembers that Lanterns can fly and turns himself around. Did his equipment get assimilated with him?

All internal doors open, master.

Good show. Now sound the evacuation alarms.

I obey.

Drolyk pulls his head back, prompting me to drop my construct armour and activate my armour's kinetic barrier. He slams his forehead forwards, pale blue light flaring for a moment as its force vanishes. I bring a railgun to bear on his right hand and fire, the appendage and part of his chest behind it collapsing into a cloud of orange. I plant my feet and pull my right arm back, then punch him directly in the face. His grip on my left side loosens and I yank it free. Ah, no, I can't hang around.

I reach across my chest with my right arm and draw the Sword of the Fallen. I had thought about not bringing it at all, but… The risks of needing it rather outweighed those of somehow losing it. Can't see a ring inside him… I slash at his chest, but he flies backwards out of range and Ceebiss is coming up behind me.

I need to get this finished!

I sidestep before Ceebiss hits me, pulling myself around with the ring's flight aura and stabbing the Sword into his flank. The construct.. material just parts around the blade-

"Raaaaahhhhh!"

-in a way which apparently is quite painful.

"Woooawh. Woooawh."

The alarms start sounding as I create a jump pack construct and thrust myself onto Ceebiss' back. He twists, trying to reach me or toss me off but I grab his left horn with my left hand, yank his head back and slice through his neck with the Sword. All the way through, as he doesn't bleed or breathe. As the head comes free the body beneath me disintegrates into vapour, then vanishes entirely. The head similarly decays as I toss it aside and generate construct armour-

Fifty three percent power remaining.

-in time to block a shot from Drolyk's construct gun. My railguns return fire, vaporising his face and a chunk of his torso. The rest of him stays stuck together well enough for me to trigger my jump pack and slam into it with the Sword outstretched. The blade pierces him directly through the sigil on his chest. Done? His arms and legs begin falling apart as I pull the sword free. Good, good.

I drop the railguns, the barriers around the princesses and my construct armour. Right. Filaments fly away from my body and dart throughout the facility as I-. Right, they need clothes. A quick burst of orange light and I fabricate body suits based on Kon's solar infusion design. Don't know if it will.. help

My lantern appears from subspace.

"This is my cause, this is my fight."

The filaments reach the inhabited parts of the facility, the Citadelians making a hurried but orderly evacuation and utterly ignoring their chattels. Education, prisoner storage…

"Shine through the void with orange light."

Filaments make contact with the Tamaranians and transition them into the nearby gestation chamber. Service and… 'Entertainment'.

"I've claimed all within my sight."

Oh, I hadn't… There aren't anything like as many as I.. hoped that there would be. Technical and kitchens.

"To keep what is mine, that is my right."

"Recharge complete."
/ "Recharge complete."

I send my lantern back into subspace as I lift the princesses from their drone platforms, flying the three of us down the corridor into the gestation chamber. A sea of bewildered orange faces turn to greet me as I land, more appearing every second.

"Could I have your attention for a moment, please! Your implants have been deactivated and in a moment or two we will be escaping." Less than a hundred left to come. Come on! "Please remain calm and above all avoid panicking. If any of you have medical experience, please see to the injured."

A few look around at that, zeroing in on those who aren't able to stand on their own. Not much they can really do for them at the moment. There are additional flares of yellow as a handful recognise the princesses. Ten, three, none! Yes!

Hellwraith, kill your host and get back into the ring.

I obey.

Three thousand three hundred and twenty nine Tamaranians. In.. terms of mass, well within my ability to transport. Good job orange rings don't require confidence.

Orange light spreads throughout the group, and…

Transition.

I ignore the screams as my passengers realise that we're in space, just behind Hny'xx's moon. I picked this location in order to-.

Oh

I feel it in my soul as the Construct Corps arrives. Orange light… Twisted… Compressed. More flares of yellow from the ships as they try to find out what's happening and then find that their communication systems and FTL drives are non-functional. I feel a cluster of lights blink out as the Orange Corps frenziedly tear through the ship, and the ring picks up the radiation spikes as the ships open fire. Can't feel Larfleeze himself, so… Yay me. I guess.

Okay, can't take these people back to Tamaran. There's too much risk that the Gordanians present will spot me or them. Transitioning is a risk. Larfleeze can't detect me directly, but ambient orange light and visible light are both well within the abilities of his slaves to notice. But a warp will probably be too generic to notice, as space is warped by the ring rather than by a distant construct. Or at least to notice quickly. I hope. I move the Tamaranians around into an approximate sphere, eliciting more shrieks… And more dull resignation from all too many. I remember reading that.. Tamaranians live in the now more than Humans do, but… I'm not sure how that works with massive psychological trauma.

Ring, plot course for Rilsomtine. Minimum safe distance.

Compliance.

Warp.

Space.. ripples as the ring distorts a far larger area than I'm used to. Come. On! This is the first significant heroic thing I've done away from Earth and it is going to happen!

The moon vanishes behind us as the starfield blurs around us. The panic dies down slightly, though the helplessness is still present. That can… I'll worry about that later. Or… Hire someone who knows how to fix it.

Emergence in three, two, one.

The warp terminates well inside the 'acceptable' boundary which the Crown Imperium enforces around its worlds, but I cleared my approach in advance. The Crown Imperium is governed by an aristocratic oligarchy, and when the Chief Minister says that you're good people, everyone lower down bends over themselves to make things easier for you. Given that the Imperium would have been the first target of a Citadel expansion wave, I think they probably owed me anyway.

Transition down.

Compliance. Warning: low power.

Space vanishes, and we appear just above the fields of the rehabilitation centre. Tamaranians from my last delivery look around in alarm, some fleeing but others either heading in the direction of the staff buildings or flying closer to offer their help. A large number of those I'm holding immediately try to fly away, so I release my hold on them and try and land the rest as rapidly as I can. Local ambulance vehicles are already heading our way…

I did it. I did it. It worked.

But I'm still not finished.

I hold out my hands palms forwards as my lantern appears from subspace once more.

"This is my cause…"
 
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But I'm still not finished.

I hold out my hands palms forwards as my lantern appears from subspace once more.

"This is my cause…"


Oh shit!!!

Paul is going to fight Larfleeze!!!

I guess you had to move up the time table because of what Lantern Greenman said, and I also think you ended up agreeing with the Psion, negotiating with the controllers is going to be DIFFICULT, if you don't have the clear upper hand, and that clearly involves having the Orange Central Power Battery when you go to negotiate with them.
 
so yeah, I think Paul is a bit scarier than renegade when he really puts his mind to it. See the renegade would have killed everyone in the room, Paul just killed everyone in the system.
 
Dont know why but I expected Paul to just straight pass out or vomit from the strain of the mass warp.
Nah...


Paul: Ophidian
Glorious Snek: MINE
Paul: Energize!
Snek: MINE... move?
Paul: ...*sigh* fine. Ring, Warp!
...I really hope we don't encounter a negative space wedgie.

Everyone Else (Thoughts): *The glowing Orange man is talking to to himself... let's let him have his moment*
 
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His first big heroic thing...feeding a bunch of people to a monster for a fate worse than death.
Presumably, once Larfleeze is no longer in the picture, he can do something about them. Maybe with a OCPB he can destroy them the same way the Sword does, or maybe he just starts offing them with the Sword one by one until none are left.

Given his personal power constraints and his need to prevent everyone in that system from committing further crimes against sapient life, I think this actually may have been the best option available.
 
Presumably, once Larfleeze is no longer in the picture, he can do something about them. Maybe with a OCPB he can destroy them the same way the Sword does, or maybe he just starts offing them with the Sword one by one until none are left.

Given his personal power constraints and his need to prevent everyone in that system from committing further crimes against sapient life, I think this actually may have been the best option available.
Imagine the rep he'll get for this.
 
Lets see liberates a planet, murders the fuck out of a bunch of slavers, frees a legion of slaves, and rescues two princess's.

If your looking to bang an alien princess this is the way to do it.

unfortantly you then have to live with the fact that all dick grayson has to do is elbow the jukebox say 'hey' and will then bang her sister.

Some times the DC universe isn't fair.
 
@Mr Zoat

Actually, thinking about it...why isn't there a renegade interrupt right before he says "I'll give you this ring."

There's been interrupts for less.
 
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