We don't know yet. In fact the second best thing about this story arc is that we may finally know.
Both version of Paul are really dragging their feet on that issue. It's clear Paul knows about Cassandra, he mentioned it to Jade in casual conversation. He can be forgiven for not acting on his knowledge, since he was young and inexperienced at the time he brought it up and probably forgot about it since then. Although one might think, after rescuing a muse from repeat sexual assault, that he would sit down, have a think, and realize there are other people in bad situations he might want to get onto rescuing. Like say, the little girl whose assassin dad is giving her permanent brain damage to see what happens, shooting her as training, and will eventually let her loose on the world to be traumatized by killing her first victim. Or maybe he could have used his 'I'm compiling a list of future members for the Team' as an excuse to find her. I know he doesn't like people without powers, but who would make a list like that and not at least think about Batgirl?
So yeah. I'm actually thrilled that Lady Shiva is dead. It means that, depending on the level of attraction David Cain had for her, he might come and avenge her. Since Ras gave up a while ago and nobody else really tried, I'd be really fascinated to see what one of the world's deadliest assassins (read: Not deadliest martial artist, although he is that, I mean he's the guy who probably has more experience figuring out ways to kill people than any other baseline human. At least, that's the distinguishing feature I make out between him and other skilled assassins like Deathstroke or Deadshot who rely on showboating instead of actual assassination tactics.) will come up with in terms of how to kill Grayven.
Even if this meeting with Shiva does remind Grayven that, 'oh yeah, a little girl is probably being tortured somewhere and only I know about it so I should do something about it.' if David Cain attacks him he'll be forced to take a personal hand to the situation, and likely liberate Cassandra.
It would also be interesting because, while Grayven preforms reasonably well in fatherly roles, if he tries to adopt Cassandra he would have to bring her around to the whole 'killing's okay if it's the right person' deal. And Cassandra has a very strong aversion to killing. It won't be as easy as Lynn, and in fact he may well give Cassandra to someone else to raise.
It's not ideal. But it's better then nothing happening to help her despite someone with meta-knowledge having been on the planet for a year. *Cough* Get it together Paul, Cassandra needs you *Cough*.
My fingers are crossed that David decides enough is enough, or that the League of Shadows tries to avenge the death of their leader, or that Grayven has actually given this some thought he just hasn't shown it in story and will actually rescue Cassandra when he takes out Ras, or maybe even when the U.S. Military is raiding League of Shadows bases General Lane finds Cassandra and raises her to be Lois Lane's awesome little sister.
Just, either confirm that she doesn't exist in this dimension or help the poor girl!
bad way to go out for her. Dying not in some grand fight against a hundred foes, or by finally finding someone who's a better fighter than her. Casually swatted by someone who's power makes her skills simply irrelevant. Also maybe a bit of a waste, worlds best martial artist sounds exactly like the kind of person who would really benefit from the new god and danner combo package. She'd be far from the most unstable person in grayvens employ.
Having never met David Cain or Sandra Wu-San, the SI has no easy way to find Cassandra. Assuming that she even exists in this setting. Grayven now does, if he can be bothered, given that she would require a lot of time and wouldn't add much to his team. For the SI, while he probably could track David Cain down eventually, he has a lot on his plate and is well aware that there are a great many people in the world suffering worse than her.
im trying to remember, what DID savage actually BRING to the Light, asset wise, that the other members couldn't provide themselves?
... also, i have to admit, RenPaul (cmon guys, you're mythologising! ) and his current allies are, on the surface, being pretty lenient to luthor all things considered. anyone got odds on him managing to STAY the only sane original member of the light and know WHEN to give up and go legit vs doing something stupid/risky against his better judgement?
id be genuinely interested in how he'd react to a "riches to rags" scenario, wither in one of the two primary timelines, or another.
Hmm, If we go meta with that point of assumptions of continued power being wrong... Has Zoat every said where the story would end, like when Paul leaves Earth for example? .
yeah.
while some of them DID turn out for the best , a good chunk of Mass Effect's renegade options DID strategically backfire as of ME3.
the "Human council" were as useless as the original,arguably WORSE (dunno if it still counts as a spoiler after all this time, but its outright stated by a version of the Codex VI in a secure data storage facility,if it recognises your SPECTRE credentials in one of ME3's DLC's that EITHER potentially cannonical council was fully aware of the reapers being REAL, and simply decided to hide their heads in the sand for literally NO logical reason considering they were facing an extinction-level threat,other than a pathetically childish hope it'll go away if they ignored it.
which makes their initial refusal to help the systems alliance against the initial attack before it spreads to THEIR homeworlds even MORE craven) being one minor-ish example.
ive been expecting the fallout to finally catch up to gravy at some point in the future all along,in a spectacular way (which is why i never got as steamed up about him being a potential sue as some of you other guys/gals) and have just been wondering just WHAT form it'll take to be both impressive/meaningful and realistically survivable.
i mean, a near worst-case would probably be his Cover story being COMPLETELY blown in a public manner that "father" couldn't ignore,but without major off-world support i dunno if that'd BE survivable, for him or earth...
Having never met David Cain or Sandra Wu-San, the SI has no easy way to find Cassandra. Assuming that she even exists in this setting. Grayven now does, if he can be bothered, given that she would require a lot of time and wouldn't add much to his team. For the SI, while he probably could track David Cain down eventually, he has a lot on his plate and is well aware that there are a great many people in the world suffering worse than her.
Yeah, I guess that's about what I expected. She's just an exceptional martial artist, so Grayven has no use for her, and after the Roanoke aftermath Paul is aware that a great many evils are committed and limits himself to those happening when he's around, and can't be bothered with the Shadows because the ones that survived the League's disbanding all know about scry wards. Meanwhile, correct me if I'm misremembering, but you mentioned you have plans for them to search the vast regions of space to find Supergirl's pod once their parole period is up, right?
I'm not saying either of them don't have the best intentions at heart, and I'm not saying they aren't heroes by any metric you care to use. I'm just saying on this one issue, they are dragging their feet. Like Superman neglecting Kon until it's too late.
On another note. The Praxus demons die and it takes up a small percentage of ring energy to regenerate them, right? Does that mean, in a purely hypothetical fight between the two orange lantern's corps armies, that Greyven could rope-a-dope Paul's forces, by getting him to expend energy on regenerating the Praxus demons while the Savage construct regenerates of his own power?
On another note. The Praxus demons die and it takes up a small percentage of ring energy to regenerate them, right? Does that mean, in a purely hypothetical fight between the two orange lantern's corps armies, that Greyven could rope-a-dope Paul's forces, by getting him to expend energy on regenerating the Praxus demons while the Savage construct regenerates of his own power?
If Savage could still regenerate of his own power I expect the result would be two Savages; a Construct one and a Flesh one created by his power. Which would be fairly amusing.
i mean, a near worst-case would probably be his Cover story being COMPLETELY blown in a public manner that "father" couldn't ignore,but without major off-world support i dunno if that'd BE survivable, for him or earth...
Well, this is Darkseid we're talking about. I wouldn't be surprised if he knew Grayven thought he was lying, but knew something he doesn't about the whole situation, like how (and why) he really is turning into Grayven. Hell, I'm half expecting that Darkseid killed this universes Grayven himself.
Ah hell I had forgotten that Grayven had Velocity Ten and Paul has no answer to that until he possibly cracks the Garrick formula. Yeah you're right, it'd be a curbstomp because super speed is fucking hax.
Regarding the emotional entities, I'm guessing that summoning either one available to him would effectively cause Grayven to undergo permanent identity death and go full supervillain. Both of them resonate well with his New God identity, meaning he'd be unlikely to use it to split himself away from them (if that's even possible), and he lacks the support network and specific circumstances that convinced the Ophidian to let go. Summoning either of them would mean he'd definitely win the fight, but it'd basically be a pyrrhic victory as 'Grayven' as he existed previously would effectively cease to exist as Grayphidian or Paraven proceed to conquer the galaxy.
As someone else mentioned, Grayven isn't immune to Velocity 9 (yet), but it's not lasting all that long anymore. Additionally, summoning an Emotional Entity requires feeling a lot of that emotion as you try to summon them, which would negate the use of the other Ring while you're doing so. Plus, summoning the Entity does not mean the Entity is friendly to you. Even if Grayven summoned one of them, they could just go "so why should I care?" or even "you've annoyed me" *ZAP!*
With Ophidian's help (not even manifesting her) Paragon could likely shut down Renegade's Orange Ring (luckily for Grayven, he has a second color available to him),
In any Paragon vs Renegade battle, an important consideration is 'were they loaded for bear, or are they only carrying their standard load?'
Jade might have appreciated her tutelage, or maybe she'd actually respect Shiva and not be keen on the whole assimilated mentor thing.
It does feel a little wasteful to just gib the greatest martial-artist in the world. Even if regular martial-arts don't actually work when you are or are dealing with superhumans.
Hmm. I wonder how effective Sumo would be as a martial art for people with super toughness. As a combat form it emphasizes control, positioning, and stability, instead of the blocks and evasion that other martial arts focus on.
yeah. while some of them DID turn out for the best , a good chunk of Mass Effect's renegade options DID strategically backfire as of ME3.
Literally nothing you did in ME and ME2 mattered at all in the long run, contrary to any and all expectations.
The MVP's at the BioWare writing room could've been placed by Zoat and the buyers pick of "Assorted people in the WTR thread that spellcheck or continuity/science correct". They could've saved ME3.
All renegade options there read like Ah, yes I would like to smash your ice cream on the floor for no reason, thank you.
Meanwhile basically all of the behind the scenes politics boils down to Guardians of Oa: Bobblehead Mode levels of extreme thinking, poor foresight and irrationality.
You could write a well thought out and lengthy essay on just how utter shite the writing in that series is.
It's actually quite hard to summon the Entities -otherwise everyone else would have done it before.
Paul had an Orange Screen of Death while in the sim as his fourth or so friend died, and the planet itself was about to be completely overrun + destroyed beyond all hope of recovery. Guy just watched his entire group of heroes/friends become mind controlled and reduced to puppets of a bunch of literal nazis and genocidal madman. And he was about to be next. Both had significant prior experience with aligning their thought patterns to their given emotions, and the situations they were in hit just the right note in their souls to get that level of emotional reverb. At least thats how I interpret it.
Hmm. I wonder how effective Sumo would be as a martial art for people with super toughness. As a combat form it emphasizes control, positioning, and stability, instead of the blocks and evasion that other martial arts focus on.
What a waste. I'd have assimilated Lady Shiva, and dumped Savage into the nearest sun. He might be immortal, but his body is still flammable, but Shiva had useful skills.
People seem to forget that Grayven's super strength is his last ditch weapon when everything else fails. He is primarily a ranged fighter, who also puts some focus on melee weapons and personal armor. The only times he doesn't act as a ranged fighter are when he has no other option, or he outclasses them so much that he just wants to have some fun.
Against non-superpowered enemies? Or against ranged attacks where you're trying to avoid collateral damage? Interception is quite often a valuable tactic.
that doesn't excuse him. he was immortal and its a big multiverse. there had to be an alternative to assimilation right? I mean what exactly is the nature of vandal's immortality? is it mundane? magical? or a combo of both?
Paul had an Orange Screen of Death while in the sim as his fourth or so friend died, and the planet itself was about to be completely overrun + destroyed beyond all hope of recovery. Guy just watched his entire group of heroes/friends become mind controlled and reduced to puppets of a bunch of literal nazis and genocidal madman. And he was about to be next. Both had significant prior experience with aligning their thought patterns to their given emotions, and the situations they were in hit just the right note in their souls to get that level of emotional reverb. At least thats how I interpret it.
Zoat has said that bluePaul would have been able to summon Adara and that Grayven could summon an entity too, so even though it took a bit of an experience for Paul and Guy to do it, it seems easy enough.
Against non-superpowered enemies? Or against ranged attacks where you're trying to avoid collateral damage? Interception is quite often a valuable tactic.
Against other super strong people. Against ranged fighters or baseline humans, you don't really need any martial arts at all. Just get in close without dying, then splatter them. You wouldn't bother grappling with someone you could make as thin as a pancake.
Against other super strong people. Against ranged fighters or baseline humans, you don't really need any martial arts at all. Just get in close without dying, then splatter them. You wouldn't bother grappling with someone you could make as thin as a pancake.
This is assuming you WANT to splatter them. Martial arts training is useful for learning how to control your opponents without necessarily injuring them.
Admiral Strom looks around as I step out of the hush tube and onto his carrier's bridge. If it wasn't for the stinking headache I've got right now I'd make time to be a little more impressed by how quickly the marines on duty bring their weapons to bear. Ah, damn it, I should really have thought that through better.
It's fascinating, Corpsman. For every flaw you correct, you swiftly find another to replace it.
He's not wrong. When I call Crock or Dorrance into the ring, I get a quick information burst of whatever they've done or seen. Mildly useful the first time, pretty much irrelevant since. It should really have occurred to me that doing the same with a man as old as Savage might be… Inadvisable.
That's certainly one way to put it, Corpsman.
I mean, it's kind of interesting that despite his claims to the contrary he actually wasn't Genghis Khan. He was some guy called Yelü Chucai, and basically ended up as Genghis Khan's Prime Minister due to being the only one in the whole horde who knew how to do anything other than wage war. It's a bit surprising, given what I know of Savage. I struggle to imagine him letting someone else out-rape and out-pillage him, but I can see from his own memories that he did.
This is the closest I've come to having any respect for him at all. Rather novel, considering the fate worse than death I consigned him to.
"Is there some reason why you've decided to join us, Mister Grayven?" I note that Admiral Strom hasn't turned to face me. He also hasn't told the marines to stand down.
I blink, hard. Head in the game. Embody strength!
"How goes the attack, Admiral?"
"Gotta say, I'm impressed by how many sea mines they stuck in these waters with no one noticing. Could probably walk to the damn island." A short nod to his flag captain and he steps back from his station, turning towards me. "You sure about them having anti-air lasers?"
"I got a tour as a thank you for resurrecting the Tasmanian Tiger."
"Well, we've been dropping missiles and shells on the coordinates you gave us since we got the go-ahead. Those sites are about as flat as we can make 'em." From outside I hear the roar of a jet engine igniting. I look out of the conning tower window as the first planes take off. The admiral follows my gaze with a cruel smile, then walks over to the window to watch them go. "I told 'em not to bother being too precise, seeing as how everyone on that island is a terrorist and it's gunna be a couple a' hours before we can land troops by sea."
I nod, though I don't otherwise move and test the marines' discipline. "Any problems so far?"
"Lost one minesweeper to frogmen."
I frown. "I'm sorry, this line of work… When you say 'frogmen'-?"
"People in scuba gear. Swam out and stuck charges on the hull. I've got a screen of dinghies with marines out in front, stop anyone doing that again."
"The crew?"
"They all got out." He glances my way. "Stand easy, fellers."
The marines snap their guns back to a rest position.
"Thank you. Admiral, you understand… This is a navy operation, but President Horne's orders were quite clear. Under no circumstances is Ra's al Ghul-."
"Yeah yeah, you wanna go in yourself."
"I'm not trying to steal your credit or anything, but-."
"His house is getting trashed in the first wave of air strikes, but we're not using bombs designed to penetrate fortified structures. Any underground bunkers are gunna still be intact." He looks over his shoulder towards me. "And you can take our bombs, right?"
"Anything short of a tactical nuke, yes."
"Then what're you waiting for? Go get him."
"Thank you." Father Box, hush tube to… Oh, I don't know…
Ploong.
Yes, that'll do.
I give Father Box a moment to create the new hush tube, then send through two blaster drones and one death ray drone to scout out the far side. Anything..? Ah. Interesting, though hardly unexpected. I stride through, yellow construct armour manifesting around my body as I appear in the catacombs under Ra's' mansion.
"Batman. What an unexpected… Meeting."
He steps out of the shadows to glower at me. "Grayven."
"Aren't you supposed to be in Germany? I'm almost entirely certain that was the plan. In fact, I'm not even sure how you got here-."
"I'm here for Talia."
"Funnily enough, so am I. As the League of Shadows' moneyman-. Moneywoman…" I frown, then dismiss the point. "Her arrest and conviction is just what we need to make the takedown real for people." He continues to study me. "What, you thought I was going to let her just disappear, take up some new identity? After all the murders she's arranged? Don't be absurd, Batman. She's going down and she's staying down."
"I don't recall you having the same attitude towards Jade Nguyen."
"And I'm sure that if you took down the League of Shadows, President Horne would have offered you a get out of gaol free card. Besides, Jade was hardly critical to the organi-." There's a tremendous BOOM from up above us, the walls around us shaking in response. "Organisation. They have killers to spare, but no one else Ra's would trust as their business manager." We continue to regard each other. "The United States government wants her by the end of the day."
"And I don't rate her chances of being taken alive if I have to come looking for her."
He waits a moment, then walks backwards and tries to fade into the shadows. A move which completely fails due to my ring augmented vision. I see him clearly as he turns and runs towards the minisub pen.
Oh, he'll be better off without her.
I turn left, heading towards the command centre. Yeah.. I.. do kind of need to eat Ra's' brain as well. There are bound to be shadows and other such people I don't know about. And I genuinely am curious to see if I can track down David Cain. I mean, if anyone knows where that nasty little psychotic serial killer is, it's Ra's al Ghul. Not sure what I could do for little Cassandra -if she even exists here- but I'm sure that it's more than him. I walk out into a training area and-.
"Grayven."
Oh, it's that Ubu bloke. He pulls a metal bar… Thing… Off the weapon rack and brandishes it. I raise my left hand and explode him. I start walking again as parts of his body rain down around the room. I just can't work these people out. They must know I don't care about killing them. Right? I mean, I called in the US fucking Navy. I shrug to myself.
A short corridor later and I'm outside the underground command centre. The yellow ring shows only four people inside. Two shadows, that Sensei bloke and Ra's himself. Three sources of fear, but Ra's himself is perfectly calm.
And… Suddenly I'm bored with this whole thing. This is just barely worth my attention. All these… Self-proclaimed masterminds just can't cope with someone of my power level stomping on them. Not without editorial fiat protecting them. I don't even bother shooting, I just barrel into the door at a loping charge, knock it down, grab the shadows around their necks and squeeze. As their heads drop to the ground I'm already lunging at the Sensei, a solid punch from my right fist crushing his chest to a mess of mashed organs and broken bones.
Then I turn to my prey. "Ra's."
He seems calm. If I had to characterise his mood, I'd describe it as disappointed. Well diddums. "I assume that you're here to kill me."
"No. Someone might find a hair follicle and use a Lazarus Pit to bring you back. I'm going to turn you into a construct, and use the knowledge that grants me to ensure that your organisation is completely destroyed."
"Talia?"
"Batman's going to find her. A show trial, and then life imprisonment."
He nods. "You would not attempt this if Mordru and Savage were not already.. taken care-."
"Dead, they're dead. Of all people, you shouldn't be squeamish about saying it."
A slight curl of distaste appears on his lips. "We could have achieved so much. Your betrayal-."
"YOU LEFT YOUR DAUGHTER TO DIE IN A NAZI CONCENTRATION CAMP! YOU DON'T GET TO CALL ME A TRAITOR!" My construct armour fails as I let the rage flow through me. "Father Box, boom tube."
BOOM! The glowing portal opens next to us, and a moment later Nyssa Raatko steps through. Her eyes are hard, and she's smiling cruelly. She's going to be useful, and she was so eager when I offered her the chance to watch this.
) and his current allies are, on the surface, being pretty lenient to luthor all things considered. anyone got odds on him managing to STAY the only sane original member of the light and know WHEN to give up and go legit vs doing something stupid/risky against his better judgement?
