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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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Yog said:
...Wait. In that comic page he could copy knowledge. Paul has meta-awareness. He knows of the nature of DC universe. I'm fairly sure that if Paragon got access to that, then, coupled with all other mind-altering stuff Paul has going for him (soul tattoos mucking up Paragon's soul; Orange light affecting Paragon's soul, lack of natural soul affecting Paragon's soul, orange enlightenment affecting Paragon's mind, connection to Ophidian completely screwing Paragon over), it would screw Paragon's mind into a pretzel.
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Actually the moment Paragon got access to Pavlos' mind it'd knock the former out as it'd mean learning Pavlos' real name.
 
I thought this part really underlined how mentally abnormal he was:

I plant my feet and generate construct armour around myself as I try to wrestle my daiklave forwards. I can feel him scrabbling around the outside of my mental shields, and while they're good, with my divine aura's reinforcement basically gone they aren't inviolable. Sinestro, psi-baffle.

Added. The pressure doesn't vanish, but it does fall away somewhat. Though I would warn you-.

That he still isn't even slightly afraid and the only good source of fear is President Horne. I know. But now that I've got-
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Face burned off, his eyes gone, other wounds too, under attack by enemies and he still doesn't feel any fear at all. Even most supervillains grasp that having your face burned off is a sign you might want to worry a bit.

You don't see Lex Luthor saying "Don't mind the empty eye sockets and the fellow trying to stab me, Mercy; where are those progress reports?"
 
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Escalation (part 24)
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    • 31st May
    17:15 GMT -5

    Mister Doom sets down the datapad he was reading from, his mouth turned down in distaste. "To think that they have fallen so far."

    I take a moment to regard him across the table. "Are you satisfied as to the authenticity of the information?"

    He looks directly at me. "Are you?"

    "Yes, for the most-." Grh. "Could you… Not do that, please?"

    "Hm." He picks up the pad again. "I see that a good deal of this was acquired from the League of Shadows."

    "Yes."

    "I have -upon occasion- had dealings with them myself. How would you characterise your relationship with them?"

    I pause for a half-moment. No compulsion effect. "Thank you." A slight dip of his eyes. "I have a good working relationship with Ra's al Ghul and I am romantically involved with a serving Shadow. We're trying to-."

    His eyes narrow. "You have a good… Working… I would like an explanation for that."

    I briefly consider answering 'she needed the training and stayed on because she likes the work environment', but decide against it. "Ra's al Ghul makes money through murder, extortion and the selling of intelligence. So -more or less- do most nation states. More to the point, he has a longer term view than most rulers. He and I are part of an alliance which aims to improve the lot of Human civilisation. Part of our work requires the sorts of operatives that he commands. Not an ideal situation, obviously, but I hope to gradually encourage him to redirect his energies towards the less malevolent part of his work."

    "The League of Shadows has been a pestilence on this world for over two hundred years."

    "So I kill Ra's, and every League of Shadows cell on the planet goes underground. Someone grabs one of his hair follicles and sticks it in a Lazarus Pit. I lose him as a source and interrupt League operations hardly at all. Ra's voluntarily signed up with an organisation that is finally kick-starting the schizo tech revolution this planet has been crying out for for seventy years. I've even got plans for America's first magic school, and after today I think I can count on President Horne's support. I can't reliably stop him, but by establishing a rapport I can channel him."

    "…had enough thinking time." The door to the meeting room is shoved open and Chester storms through. "Well?" He stares at me, throwing up his hands. "We goin' and getting' the bastards or what?"

    I meet his stare calmly. "Or what."

    "Are you serious? After everythin' that happened today, you're just gonna let them get away with it?"

    "Chester, we weren't acting because we lack the information necessary to create a replacement government. Has anything that happened today-"

    "The fook is your-"

    "-changed that?"

    "-problem!" He takes a right turn and starts pacing. "They try killin' me? Fine, just another rosy day at the office." He swivels sharply, facing me again. "But they went aftah Lynne! A school fulla kids! In America, which I'm shower is gunna go down great with your pal Jon Horne. What-?"

    "Chester." I point to the far side of the room.

    "What?" He frowns, looking around. "You playin' with dolls now?"

    "Those are the original robots used by Eric Dolmann. I acquired them from Penny Dolmann's home half an hour ago. In their place, I left a robotic representation of her. Turn the key in the back and it bleeds from every orifice before exploding."

    "'s start." He turns back around. "But what else?"

    "Chester, I am completely furious about what happened. But fundamentally, nothing has changed except that the opposition have lost some resources. And before too long they will lose their allies in SHADE as well."

    Most SHADE-certified agents responded to President Horne's edict almost immediately. Might take a while to process them, but as General Lane told me: most of them didn't know that SHADE was an actual organisation. Those who did and tried going to ground will be brought in presently.

    Those conversations will be less polite.

    "I am simply not prepared to send a civilised country collapsing into anarchy because one particular offence was personal. The timetable remains in effect. Continue your work. Once I have completed Vera's new arms I will send her to join you once more. Once you have completed your task, then we will move against our adversaries directly."

    He tilts his head noticeably to the left, continuing to stare at me. "Are y-? Fine. Fine." He waves his right arm dismissively in my general direction and then he trudges back out of the door. He slams it behind him as he leaves.

    I watch the door for a moment before during back to Mister Doom. "Is there anything else you would like to ask?"

    "No, I don't believe so." He rises, pushing back his chair as he does so. "I do not trust you, Mister Grayven. But I find that I struggle to strongly disagree with those things that you have done to date. And I doubt that anyone else is engaged in the work of restoring the government of Britain to moral probity as you intend to. I will continue to watch you, however. If I detect any sign that your associates are converting you to their methods more than you are converting them to yours… You may well imagine what I will do."

    "No."

    His eyebrows rise very slightly. "Excuse me?"

    "I am not prepared to be brought into line with threats. You just told me that you agree with what I'm doing. Do you make a habit of threatening your allies?"

    "I would hardly describe us as that."

    "Why ever not? In fact, why are you not volunteering to provide me with information yourself? The more I learn, the faster and more precisely I can act. The lower the quantity of collateral damage."

    "Because I have been absent from this world for some time. Before I take such a risk, I would learn more about you and those whom you describe as your friends. I have no desire to unseat one corrupt establishment merely to replace it with another."

    "Then join in. You can keep a better watch on me standing next to me than you can from a castle that is even now being occupied by armed police. And once you have assured yourself that I am genuine, you would be better placed to shape policy to something that is… Appropriately non-villainous."

    "That is…" He bows his head and narrows his eyes as he considers the suggestion. "Not something I will reject out of hand, but… No, not yet." He looks up again. "But in the spirit of future cooperation, would you be so good as to open a portal that would return me to my customary abode? I believe that I have uninvited guests to evict."

    "Certainly. Just as soon as you return the rest of my soul." His face tightens slightly. "I know perfectly well that knowing its shape gives you very nearly as many options for acting against me as holding it. But you having it diminishes me, makes me less capable. Apokoliptian technology works on the spiritual strength of the one wielding it. You taking a tough line on this could get me and mine killed. Not to mention the fact that it's damn rude."

    He regards me passively for a moment. "I.. suppose that you may have a point. Very well." He raises his right hand and ah! Back in business! "But I will warn you: having granted you this reprieve I will now take any backsliding on your part as a personal insult."

    I smile. "Then I will avoid giving you cause. Father Box, if you would?"

    "Ploong."

    The hole in space opens and Cursitor Doom sweeps majestically through it before it closes down.

    I wait for a moment, then slip my new goggles over my eyes and check the area. Nothing that I can see. Sinestro?

    So far as I can determine, Corpsman, the area is clear.

    Good good. I rise and head for the door, gently pushing it open and walking out.
     
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    Mr Zoat said:
    Mister Doom set down the datapad he was reading from, his mouth turned down is distaste.
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    "in"

    Mr Zoat said:
    "I have -upon occasion- had dealing with them myself.
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    "dealings"

    Mr Zoat said:
    And I doubt that anyone else in the work of restoring the government of Britain as you intend to.
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    There seems to be a word missing from this sentence, I'm not sure where.

    Mr Zoat said:
    Not to mention that fact that it's damn rude."
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    "the"
     
    Vaermina said:
    There's no getting rid of Mordru, he's immortal in the literal sense of the word.
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    He can be gotten rid of the way the Justice Society got rid of him; throwing him out of the universe. Or various other non-lethal options for rendering him impotent for an indefinite period; which would actually be more effective than killing or banishing him since it would prevent another Lord of Chaos from showing up.

    Also being stabbed with the Sword of the Fallen probably wouldn't do him much good.

    Plus as Zoat just said, the evidence is that there's no such thing as true immortality in-universe; just different levels of difficult-to-kill.

    OL would probably try sticking him in Tartarus.
     
    So, some thoughts on the Paul's side of the story:
    1) At some point relatively early in the story he wanted to check if Gotham was housing some sort of eldrich abomination, which would explain how all wardens of Arkham went insane / died. Did he ever do it? Also, did he try and find Gotham's shaman? Or maybe get someone to take up the job. To steer Gotham in a right direction.

    2) Grayven's knowledge of kryptonian biology necessary to stabilize Match (and turn Kon fully kryptonian) comes from an AI neural clone of Jor-El in the fortress of solitude. Now, OL is too much of a good guy to go there uninvited. But I find it very strange that Kal-El hasn't talked to Jor-El about any of this (Match, Kon) in all that time, especially after the alternative became Lex running kryptonian biological research. I mean, if nothing else, he'd have tried to look for Kryptonians (since OL told him there's at least one more on Earth), and the fortress should have sensors. Frankly, I kind of find the whole situation baffling. I mean, Kal-El exists beyond his interaction with OL. Kents, Lois, Jor-El's AI - all those would have talked to him about the situation at length, and likely called him out on his behavior. And Jor-El would have the knowledge needed for solution to be found. Did Clark cut his ties to his social circle over this? Are we seeing (well, not seeing, but it's happening off scene) Superman in the midst of becoming estranged from his loved ones?

    Point is, I realize and understand how Match not being active on OL's side is to prevent character bloat, and for there to be some sort of balance between paragon and renegade sides, but to me, on reread, it still feels like Superman exists in the universe only when he interacts with OL, without any ability to meaningfully affect the universe long-term when not "on scene".

    Hell, speaking of politeness and such, sending Jor-El an e-mail should be completely within OL's rings' abilities.

    3) On Superman not having Phantom Zone access - you might need to retcon this part then:
    "Two main groups I know about. Firstly, you've got the Phantom Zone prisoners."

    Green Arrow brings a bowl of some sort of biscuit over, and puts it in front of Wallace. Not a bad idea, usually, but in this situation it might come across as a bit blatant.

    "Thanks, but no thanks."

    "Superman's not going to let them out any time soon."

    "Yeah. What we want, are answers. About Red Tornado and his siblings."

    "They're not all serial killers. As I understand it, the Science Council got a bit Phantom Zone happy towards the end. Some of them could be paroled eventually."
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    Or play it off as Jor-El having access, and not Kal-El himself, and how Kal-El was avoiding Jor-El due to their disagreement about Kon (which would be made much worse if Kal-El ever referred to Kon as, well, Kon, ie "abomination" in Jor-El's presence)

    4) Shortly after Kaldur got Ocean Master's armor, he was asked about when others would get such protections. Here is the conversation in question:
    "At a distance, perhaps, but I am both shorter and broader than Orm and it is quite possible that they have already heard of his fate from other criminals. This.. armor-" He holds out his right arm and looks at it, flexing the armour on the back of the hand. "-should protect against all but his most powerful arcane attacks."

    "And when do the rest of us get armor like that?"

    "The materials employed in its construction are transmuted. They do not occur in nature, and the difficulty of their creation..." He trails off, looking at me.

    I jazz hands. "It's on the slate, but it isn't a priority and to be honest we'll probably skip straight to orichalcum rather than mess around with impure mithril derivatives."

    Mithril's lighter, and the pattern of external plates on Ocean Master's armour are designed to improve the protection it offers without interfering with the user's agility. Makes sense if you're forced to work the material in a more or less conventional way, but with a power ring Sephtian and I should be able to transmute any size of loop for chainmail, down to far below what would be possible with mere steel.
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    OL now has access to orichalcum, and the first of the new generation of mythical armors has already been made (for Wonder Woman). With advanced ring-based forging techniques, like cold diffusion welding (ring can apply a lot of pressure) laminated plate armor with thousands of layers (10 micrometer thick gold foil is commercially available, and the ring can make thinner ones with engraved mystical patterns), each with individual enhancement, should be doable. So... I'm wondering when others are getting their armors. I expect the progression to be something like (assuming politics play a role, which they will): Aquaman (king of Atlantis), helmet for Kon, armor for Donna (who is pretty much Diana's sister, which is now a known fact), gloves and boots (I think) for Kaldur, maybe actually swapping inferior Ocean Master's armor to full orichalcum laminate magical armor, then other league members starting with "squishy humans".
     
    shepsquared said:
    I think Grayven may be feeling out Doom as a replacement for Mordru, if that becomes necessary
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    Doom is a do gooder, I don't see the members of the Light accepting him as a kindred spirit.

    Grayven would have more luck with someone either mercenary or at least anti-heroic enough to be a credible bad guy- Like say Enchantress, who is possessed by a demon after all, or maybe Mirabai the tyrant of Sorcerer's World (not a good lady by any means, but I believe she's better than Mordru any day of the week).

    Hmm, looking up magical types, I came across a character from milestone that would be real easy to incorporate- Arcaana, she has magical powers thanks to a statue, and her magic allows her to transform into an alternate form covered in green flames that allows her to fly, create constructs and minions, fire energy bolts and protect herself with a forcefield, teleportation, and the transportation of matter. If Zoat would like to incorporate the starheart in this fic, he could have it reside in that statue. She only retains her powers when it's within a certain range of her, so she enchanted it so it teleports to remain in range no matter where she goes.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    The Renegade does not believe in immortality. The SI remembers that at the end Death of the Endless is all that is left, so presumably he either died or time-looped at some point.
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    Or you know, just jumped to another Universe with all the other immortals. :lol

    Poor Deedee, never gets invited to the fun parties. :rofl:

    Also I assume that means he forgot that Hourman determined that Mordru's timeline had no beginning or end?
     
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    Marcus.D.Basterd said:
    throw him into the Blead, even if that doesn't kill him i bet that it can be used to provide power somehow.
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    That appears to be what let Klarion replace him.

    Mr Zoat said:
    "Um, well, we've been going through Mister Nelson's books. The first mention of Klarion was a few years after the Justice Society threw Mordru through what we think was a Bleed portal. Into the space between universes. Since he hasn't come back that might have killed him, or-" She looks at me. "-maybe he just doesn't want to come back."
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    Vaermina said:
    Also I assume that means he forgot that Hourman determined that Mordru's timeline had no beginning or end?
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    That fits into Mr Zoat's time loop theory much better than it does into the "true immortal" theory.

    Also, it's his story.
     
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    There's always the fact that people are fallible, and this is universe 16.

    I actually have something I find more interesting than Mordru anyway.

    WoZ is that Nabu hates Grayven.

    There's enough of Nabu (somewhere, probably some order-plane) that is cognizant that he is capable of hate. This is going to come back.
     
    Vaermina said:
    Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, it's 4am and I was trying to prose. :lol

    Hourman using his temporal powers determined that Mordru had never been born and that he would never die.
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    You seem to have confused forgetting with not giving a damn.


    In the comics, the lords of order and chaos as a group predates the universe and are supposed to outlive the universe (The Spectre having a temper tantrum and killing most of them put a cramp in that), in point of fact the Lords of Order had Andrew Bennett drink from the holy grail in an effort to destroy the universe, because in the new universe order would be ascendent before entropy once again kicks in.

    In this fic, the lords are just a bunch of sorcerers mainlining a cosmic force for a power up, according to word of Zoat.

    Which means most likely in this fic Mordru is a Cilian who had Cilian parents, who changed his Cilian diapers, who then went to Cilian school, and possibly went to Cilian prom.

    Now I'm not sure why Zoat gave them the downgrade, perhaps because of Fate's poor showing in the show, perhaps he didn't want another group that makes the New Gods look like irrelevant aliens in silly outfits running around, perhaps he didn't like the idea of lords who are not only older than the Endless but have seen countless iterations of Endless as universes die and are reborn.

    Avernus said:
    Again, that fits a time loop better than immortality. Especially considering that the universe in question itself has a beginning and end.
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    See above, the universe having a beginning and an end doesn't matter too much to those who outlive universes.

    Oh yes, and in point of fact there's a character whose origin hinges on the universe effectively not having a beginning or an end- The Infinite Man. He was a time researcher who had the theory that time was circular- that the past is the future and the future is the past, if you go far enough.

    So he went into a time machine to travel so far into the future that he'd wind up in the present again.

    It worked too well. He travelled through the end of the universe to the beginning over and over and over and over again until he became the embodiment of circular time itself.
     
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    stsword said:
    Now I'm not sure why Zoat gave them the downgrade, perhaps because of Fate's poor showing in the show, perhaps he didn't want another group that makes the New Gods look like irrelevant aliens in silly outfits running around, perhaps he didn't like the idea of lords who are not only older than the Endless but have seen countless iterations of Endless as universes die and are reborn.
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    Earth 16 is supposed to be a much lower power setting in general. In the mainline comics Green Lanterns do the kind of thing that in this story you'd need an Entity like Ophidian or Ion to pull off.
     
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