I think people would complain less about OL's limits if they stopped to think about how much danger his passive defenses have already saved him from without him even being aware of it. Someone somewhere has certainly tried to "scry and die" him, and probably a bunch of other things too. Someone should do an omake' of a bunch of villains sitting around somewhere bitching about him being a pain in the ass for them.
With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Hampden Park
Thank you, corrected.
Zigzag (part 21)
- Location
- Hampden Park
5th May
14:22 GMT -5
Tula, Garth, Raquel and I look up as Kaldur, Roy and Richard walk into our meeting room. "Please tell me you've got some good news?"
Kaldur looks very slightly downcast. Richard shakes his head. "Nothing to do with the kidnapping. We did get solid proof that General Kerimov has been breaking dozens of minor laws, but nothing about kidnapping Miss Molotova or hiding her."
Roy slumps into a seat at the far end, next to Raquel. "We checked dozens of places they owned or worked or rented. If they've got her somewhere, then it's totally off the books."
Richard sits down opposite Canis while Kaldur takes his place at the head of the table. He looks at me. "Were you able to apprehend The Demon Constantine?"
I nod. "Bound in magic suppression chains and handed over to Belle Reve." Ms Waller was fairly upbeat about the prospect of having definitive proof that the upgrades she's made to the place for the purpose of containing magic-based offenders actually work. The chains are designed to be highly resistant to damage but they're keeping him in solitary confinement just in case. "Max Mercury was being possessed by Edward Clariss under his direction. The General was planning to recreate the Soviet Union through super speed operatives by reverse engineering whatever potion it was that gave Max his speed. From what he said before he clammed up, he probably didn't have Miss Molotova kidnapped." I shake my head. "I'm not even sure that he knew about the Demons."
Roy frowns faintly. "Don't you have to be a Demon to possess someone?"
"Um." How to explain to someone with the limited knowledge of magic that Roy has? "The Exorcist-style spontaneous mutation and added super powers type? Yes. But... It's possible for a damned soul to become a Demon."
His eyes widen slightly. "Seriously?"
"We don't... Understand the process... It's unusual and slow and they usually aren't all that powerful. Of course, if someone like Satanus thought that Clariss would be useful he might have helped the process along a little."
"Oh, good. At least we don't have to worry about every dead criminal in history coming back."
Kaldur leans forward slightly. "Was Max Mercury able to give you any useful-?"
There's a rush of displaced air as Wallace comes to a sudden halt in the doorway. "Hey, guys."
"How are they doing?"
"Well... Jay's gunna get an earful from Joan when he's... Y'know... Okay enough to take it in." He crosses to the table and takes his usual place next to Richard. "She only let me off lightly 'cause she was really worried." He fidgets uncomfortably for a moment. "They.. are gunna be okay, right?"
Kaldur blinks, eyes directly on Wallace. "Did something happen to Mister Garrick?"
Wallace's eyes flick to me. "Oh. You guys only just started?" I nod. "Tempest and Aquagirl used some sort of magic to get Clariss out of Max, but rather than getting sent back to Hell or just destroyed he ended up inside Jay."
"Did Mister Garrick take to the field?"
"No." Wallace shakes his head. "He was still back in our room. Far as we can tell Clariss ran straight over to the mansion as soon as he took control." He looks over at the team's Atlantean members. "How did he do that?"
Tula shakes her head regretfully. "We are not really sure. There are a number of possibilities. The fact that all three of them have super speed might create enough of a link to enable Clariss to transfer himself. He might have taken power from the ritual in the basement to make it work, or they might have prepared a spell in advance."
"I thought-. Ah, don't take this the wrong way, but I thought you guys were experts on magic?"
Garth's eyes dip for a moment. "In the Conservatory of Sorcery, Demons are not a popular field of study. We simply do not know enough about how they use magic to determine what they did without a great deal of study of the site, and I do not think that General Kerimov is likely to invite us back." He turns his head my way. "Orange Lantern, do you think that the original John Constantine would have any useful insights?"
"He might. I'll certainly be asking him."
Richard presses a couple of buttons and an image of a man in a grey waistcoat appears. His hair is auburn, aside from his distinctive shock of white running along the right side of his head. Jason Blood. "Might be easier to call in someone they won't recognize as a Demon."
Kaldur stares at the image for a moment-. No, he's staring through it as he thinks. "I do not think that the precise mechanism will be of much significance. It would be more useful to have Jason Blood available when The Demon Constantine is interrogated."
I raise my eyebrows slightly. "Not Constantine mark one?" From the looks they give me I'm going to assume that the answer is 'no'.
"Ah..?" Wallace raises his right hand, index finger extended. "That spaced out thing Jay and Max are doing. They're not going to be like that permanently, are they? I mean... I don't know what being possessed by a Demon does to you. When Nabu did it to me I was just standing in an empty room, but I guess... With a Demon..."
The Atlanteans make brief eye contact with each other and with me. Why would-? Oh, right. I nod, and Kaldur turns to Wallace. "Do you remember how -before he got his current tattoos- Orange Lantern could become overwhelmed by magic, so that it would seem as if he was intoxicated?"
"Yeah? But, they're not acting like they're drunk, just... It's kinda like they've got... Like they've got dementia or something."
Kaldur nods. "For sudden or intense exposure, that is how it usually manifests. They should be fully recovered within two days. If they are not, then there are other treatments which can be used to improve their recovery."
"Okay." He nods, looking quite relieved. "Thanks."
"Okay, I need to bring this up. Whatever we managed to achieve today, we don't have any current leads on what happened to Miss Molotova. Is this mission effectively over?"
Instinctive responses range from denial to downcast. Kaldur mirrors me in taking a look around before responding. "We will need to speak to The Demon Constantine, and it is possible that the Director may have further information for us. But in the event that neither meeting results in us gaining new leads, I fear that you may be right."
Raquel frowns. "Ah still don't understand why you can't just use your ring to scan for her."
I smile ruefully, then connect the ring to the table's holographic display. "When I first arrived on Earth, I could scan pretty much anything I wanted to. After the League of Shadows was destroyed, that started to change."
"Yeah, 'scry wards', you said. But they can't be everywhere."
"These are corporate logos from companies owned by LexCorp before the League of Shadows... And after." I give them a moment to take the images in. "Please note the change in emphasis here and here..."
Garth gets it first. "Those are runic wards."
"Yep. But it gets better. LexCorp has a paper production business. And guess what shapes are now included in the structure of the paper? And guess who are adding it to their computer security product line?"
Richard's eyes narrow slightly. "That's kind of a lot just for you, isn't it?"
"Lex had LexCorp Metropolis warded by an actual wizard. If Satanus actually has joined the Light he's most likely got a few competent cultists around to work on that sort of thing. The protections won't be powerful, but they'll keep me and the Greenies out. Perhaps more importantly, if everything's warded, then magic users on our side can't tell what's important and what isn't, so looking for blind spots isn't really going to help." I look around the room. "Our enemies are intelligent people. In the same way that I've tried to persuade League members to cover their weaknesses, the Light are doing the same, and in the most inconvenient of ways."
14:22 GMT -5
Tula, Garth, Raquel and I look up as Kaldur, Roy and Richard walk into our meeting room. "Please tell me you've got some good news?"
Kaldur looks very slightly downcast. Richard shakes his head. "Nothing to do with the kidnapping. We did get solid proof that General Kerimov has been breaking dozens of minor laws, but nothing about kidnapping Miss Molotova or hiding her."
Roy slumps into a seat at the far end, next to Raquel. "We checked dozens of places they owned or worked or rented. If they've got her somewhere, then it's totally off the books."
Richard sits down opposite Canis while Kaldur takes his place at the head of the table. He looks at me. "Were you able to apprehend The Demon Constantine?"
I nod. "Bound in magic suppression chains and handed over to Belle Reve." Ms Waller was fairly upbeat about the prospect of having definitive proof that the upgrades she's made to the place for the purpose of containing magic-based offenders actually work. The chains are designed to be highly resistant to damage but they're keeping him in solitary confinement just in case. "Max Mercury was being possessed by Edward Clariss under his direction. The General was planning to recreate the Soviet Union through super speed operatives by reverse engineering whatever potion it was that gave Max his speed. From what he said before he clammed up, he probably didn't have Miss Molotova kidnapped." I shake my head. "I'm not even sure that he knew about the Demons."
Roy frowns faintly. "Don't you have to be a Demon to possess someone?"
"Um." How to explain to someone with the limited knowledge of magic that Roy has? "The Exorcist-style spontaneous mutation and added super powers type? Yes. But... It's possible for a damned soul to become a Demon."
His eyes widen slightly. "Seriously?"
"We don't... Understand the process... It's unusual and slow and they usually aren't all that powerful. Of course, if someone like Satanus thought that Clariss would be useful he might have helped the process along a little."
"Oh, good. At least we don't have to worry about every dead criminal in history coming back."
Kaldur leans forward slightly. "Was Max Mercury able to give you any useful-?"
There's a rush of displaced air as Wallace comes to a sudden halt in the doorway. "Hey, guys."
"How are they doing?"
"Well... Jay's gunna get an earful from Joan when he's... Y'know... Okay enough to take it in." He crosses to the table and takes his usual place next to Richard. "She only let me off lightly 'cause she was really worried." He fidgets uncomfortably for a moment. "They.. are gunna be okay, right?"
Kaldur blinks, eyes directly on Wallace. "Did something happen to Mister Garrick?"
Wallace's eyes flick to me. "Oh. You guys only just started?" I nod. "Tempest and Aquagirl used some sort of magic to get Clariss out of Max, but rather than getting sent back to Hell or just destroyed he ended up inside Jay."
"Did Mister Garrick take to the field?"
"No." Wallace shakes his head. "He was still back in our room. Far as we can tell Clariss ran straight over to the mansion as soon as he took control." He looks over at the team's Atlantean members. "How did he do that?"
Tula shakes her head regretfully. "We are not really sure. There are a number of possibilities. The fact that all three of them have super speed might create enough of a link to enable Clariss to transfer himself. He might have taken power from the ritual in the basement to make it work, or they might have prepared a spell in advance."
"I thought-. Ah, don't take this the wrong way, but I thought you guys were experts on magic?"
Garth's eyes dip for a moment. "In the Conservatory of Sorcery, Demons are not a popular field of study. We simply do not know enough about how they use magic to determine what they did without a great deal of study of the site, and I do not think that General Kerimov is likely to invite us back." He turns his head my way. "Orange Lantern, do you think that the original John Constantine would have any useful insights?"
"He might. I'll certainly be asking him."
Richard presses a couple of buttons and an image of a man in a grey waistcoat appears. His hair is auburn, aside from his distinctive shock of white running along the right side of his head. Jason Blood. "Might be easier to call in someone they won't recognize as a Demon."
Kaldur stares at the image for a moment-. No, he's staring through it as he thinks. "I do not think that the precise mechanism will be of much significance. It would be more useful to have Jason Blood available when The Demon Constantine is interrogated."
I raise my eyebrows slightly. "Not Constantine mark one?" From the looks they give me I'm going to assume that the answer is 'no'.
"Ah..?" Wallace raises his right hand, index finger extended. "That spaced out thing Jay and Max are doing. They're not going to be like that permanently, are they? I mean... I don't know what being possessed by a Demon does to you. When Nabu did it to me I was just standing in an empty room, but I guess... With a Demon..."
The Atlanteans make brief eye contact with each other and with me. Why would-? Oh, right. I nod, and Kaldur turns to Wallace. "Do you remember how -before he got his current tattoos- Orange Lantern could become overwhelmed by magic, so that it would seem as if he was intoxicated?"
"Yeah? But, they're not acting like they're drunk, just... It's kinda like they've got... Like they've got dementia or something."
Kaldur nods. "For sudden or intense exposure, that is how it usually manifests. They should be fully recovered within two days. If they are not, then there are other treatments which can be used to improve their recovery."
"Okay." He nods, looking quite relieved. "Thanks."
"Okay, I need to bring this up. Whatever we managed to achieve today, we don't have any current leads on what happened to Miss Molotova. Is this mission effectively over?"
Instinctive responses range from denial to downcast. Kaldur mirrors me in taking a look around before responding. "We will need to speak to The Demon Constantine, and it is possible that the Director may have further information for us. But in the event that neither meeting results in us gaining new leads, I fear that you may be right."
Raquel frowns. "Ah still don't understand why you can't just use your ring to scan for her."
I smile ruefully, then connect the ring to the table's holographic display. "When I first arrived on Earth, I could scan pretty much anything I wanted to. After the League of Shadows was destroyed, that started to change."
"Yeah, 'scry wards', you said. But they can't be everywhere."
"These are corporate logos from companies owned by LexCorp before the League of Shadows... And after." I give them a moment to take the images in. "Please note the change in emphasis here and here..."
Garth gets it first. "Those are runic wards."
"Yep. But it gets better. LexCorp has a paper production business. And guess what shapes are now included in the structure of the paper? And guess who are adding it to their computer security product line?"
Richard's eyes narrow slightly. "That's kind of a lot just for you, isn't it?"
"Lex had LexCorp Metropolis warded by an actual wizard. If Satanus actually has joined the Light he's most likely got a few competent cultists around to work on that sort of thing. The protections won't be powerful, but they'll keep me and the Greenies out. Perhaps more importantly, if everything's warded, then magic users on our side can't tell what's important and what isn't, so looking for blind spots isn't really going to help." I look around the room. "Our enemies are intelligent people. In the same way that I've tried to persuade League members to cover their weaknesses, the Light are doing the same, and in the most inconvenient of ways."
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shepsquared
Erratic Aussie
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
There. Now lets all agree to never bitch about scry-wards ever again.
Mizu
Software Developer
- Location
- Victoria, Australia
actually works
Good that baddies are shown as smart, but also oh-so-annoying
- Location
- madison
the paper thing sounds pricey, and I doubt even high-end paper can be sold for that much. Then again lexcorp is profitable enough they can probably eat a loss on paper, and the exposure of being able to market anti-scrying paper might offset the cost. Man, that would be classic Luthor, getting good PR from a move that majorly impedes the heroes.
"lexcorp, the leading provider of magical counter surveillance! provided at a loss to all our office supply customers, just because wizards can violate the laws of physics don't mean the should be able to violate your privacy!"
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- Location
- texas
Question about the wards- how broad are the effects?
They obviously work against magic, since that's the original point of them, and they work against lantern rings.
How about psychics? Is the Face of Gotham suddenly finding she doesn't know everything that happens in Gotham? The next time Captain Comet shows up on Earth, is he going to have numerous blindspots in his clairvoyance?
They obviously work against magic, since that's the original point of them, and they work against lantern rings.
How about psychics? Is the Face of Gotham suddenly finding she doesn't know everything that happens in Gotham? The next time Captain Comet shows up on Earth, is he going to have numerous blindspots in his clairvoyance?
"Are now" is there twice.
- Location
- Hampden Park
Thank you, corrected.
Earth 16's more advanced tech-base doesn't just make lasers cheaper.
- Location
- Somewhere out there
Silveraith
Argent Phantasm
- Location
- Terra Atlantus
Sounds like it could be something like a watermark, which is not uncommon, especially given the redesign of the logos.
Lets the warded paper be used for secure purposes, and floods the market with distracting chaff to avoid the "hmm, there's nothing there, that means there's something there."
Heh, on the general note of suspicious blank space, relevant Schlock Mercenary: Schlock Mercenary - Sunday 11 Jul 2004 Bottom row.
- Location
- Oblivion
He still hasn't explained why he hasn't tried to work out a broad reaching countermeasure to their countermeasure.
Like enchanting his Ring with Anti-Scry ward magic. :lol
- Location
- Hampden Park
Thank you, corrected.
The next episode is called 'Binding'. Just one part of this episode left.
There are few things that can't be achieved with magic, but the lowest level wards won't stop many magic users.
- Location
- forest grove oregon
Maybe not. Both of their abilities might be powerful enough to just punch through the wards or they might just ignore them entirely. The Face of Gotham's powers seem like their telepathic and Captain Comet's power is practically described as being able to see really, really well. So probably not for the first one and maybe for the second one.
- Location
- Internet, The
I know they cannot stop many magic users. I was more thinking along the lines of someone scrying for something in one of Luthor's buildings and all the paper starting to burn. As in, the magic user is not stopped and all the weak scry wards combust.
The Maltusians are the ones that made the Starheart, the trapped-crystallized magic of the entire universe. The Empire of Tears also says hello. They erased magic from most of the DC universe and the only reason Earth has it is because of the White Entity.
Basically the League and OL should have the magical resources/know-how to either bypass or disable most of the low-effort scry wards, since they are so simple and low level. That leaves a few more high powered ones around important locations that they can then put under more mundane surveillance.
This is the dichotomy: a lot of low powered scry wards that completely counter power ring scans, but we haven't seen any magic user aligned with the JL spend effort to bypass them. Why are the Light the only ones allowed to implement this stuff? Has the Watchtower been warded the same way by Nabu both against scrying and other magical attacks? Is Batman/WayneCorp utilizing his own version of scry wards and helping the proliferation?
- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
I'm still planning to. The Light has basically crippled OL's effectiveness (considering he went from all-singing, all-dancing omniscience to "average RFP" in his ability to gather intel) and Paul's response has been to kvetch occasionally. No effort has been made to actually fix the problem, it's just been accepted as the new norm.
- Location
- texas
Nabu, Mordru, Klarion, and Karmang say hi.
The Guardians didn't erase magic from the universe, they "collected loose magic" after they defeated the Empire of Tears. Loose, as in they gathered the magic no one was using.
According to Sandman Oa's sun is a member of the parliament of stars (analogous to the parliament of Trees from Swamp Thing), as is the Sun Rao that Krypton revolved around, according to Swamp Thing, Oa is a member of the parliament of worlds. So the Guardians didn't even remove all the magic from their own solar system.
And it doesn't seem like the Guardians made the Starheart in this fic, since one would have to assume it would have made its presence known by now- Since Paul changed its lantern into orange, and gave it a roommate in the Ophidian.
Plus magic in DC generally comes from extradimensional sources- Slaughter Swamp is basically a hellmouth, Atlantis made use from energy leaked by the Dark Dimension before it woke up and said "Hey, cut that out, moochers!" and in continuities in which Zerox isn't Gemworld, the entire planet is a hellmouth, having magic energy leaked into it from at 15 other dimensions, ranging from the 5th dimension, various divine and elemental realms, and the Dreaming.
So you can't remove magic from a universe in the DC franchise without blocking it from all other realms, and they certainly didn't do that.
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- Location
- Hampden Park
Most of this does not apply to universe 16.
The League's magic user is Nabu. The SI prefers not to spend time with him when he really doesn't have to, but after their last meeting he did get around to placing protective spells on the Watchtower.
The only way to 'fix' the problem would be to fry every ward on the planet, and keep doing it whenever anyone tried making new ones. That is just about possible, but would be taken as extremely hostile action by currently neutral or friendly parties. Plus there's the risk of frying things you didn't want to fry.
- Location
- Hampden Park
I seem to remember something about SV having an adult forum? Am I remembering correctly? I ask because I've been getting an impulse to write what would have happened if the SI had said 'yes' to Holly and Karon and I'd rather do it here than QQ.
- Status