Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)

What should I do regarding a change in system?

  • Notgreat's proposed simplification of hunting, leave rest intact.

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • Chapter system vastly simplifying everything.

    Votes: 4 44.4%

  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .
Looking at Haman's plan again, it does indeed look like he's completely depending on the vet clairvoyants to be the first defensive screen against the demon, with everyone just rushing in, and that really isn't sufficient. That seems like it would have a good chance of getting someone killed right at the start.

My own doesn't have any active defense, but it does have an alternative means of detection, and is set up to force the demon to trigger Mami's warning spread even if Taya is having difficulty spotting it. (It might be applied to Haman's as well, if Helix allows my 'general' tactics to apply to all proposals, but Haman's still lacks the extra prep time before bringing in the vets.) Still, TheEyes has stirred up my paranoia a bit, and I'm wanting to put the barrier set back in the initial insert team.

Goal #1: Don't get ganked by the demon before we're ready.
Goal #2: Find the demon.
Goal #3: Hurt the demon. (ie: engage/alpha strike)

@Aranfan : Any objections to me moving Kaoru and 3 barriers into the initial insertion?

Edit: Made some adjustments to my plan.
 
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Unfortunately we have four votes--a solid majority--for Plan Let the Clairvoyants Get Ganked, so unless one or more of @Elder Haman, @landcollector, @Diomedon, @tenchifew decide that the same paranoia that convinced them that we can't delay long enough to learn how to fight defensively should also apply to not putting our clairvoyants in range of an Elite-level stealth super-demon, we're stuck.
 
@inverted_helix, has any other Puella Group managed a year of no deaths like we did?
This depends on how you define group. I mean pretty much any existing Elite has lasted a year without dying. Plus you have rare cases like an heiress contracting and then paying an Elite with money to supply grief cubes. If the Elite manages a territory like Kyouko did there's no risk of death, and arbitrarily high money can produce pretty good morale.

I'd at least like to see what @inverted_helix comes up with for the costs; if we're talking 1 meguca-month for the barrier-girls I'd be willing to sacrifice the scouting of Area 1 because I'm reasonably certain that's where our poachers came from:
I'm still mulling that, but I can tell you that you won't be able to get it without delaying until next month. It's going to take a research action before the training can start. There's more to it than just smashing things together.

Not unless one of them has a Taya-level star turn, and I don't think @inverted_helix wants us having any more elites without expanding the territory.
Well a star turn in that case was really just a high roll of 93. One high roll isn't what I use to determine Elite potential in any case though. So it's not like I'm going to just ignore a high roll. A roll like that can let a vet beat an Elite's stealth, so I figure Haman's general idea is just throw enough dice and get lucky.

(I use a lot of d100s, level advantage is not absolute in most cases chance still has a role, theoretically even a green could penetrate an Elite's stealth with a nat 100, though in Fluff I'd probably represent that as the Elite slipping on a banana peel and falling off a building or something.)
 
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I might possibly be convinced to consider some tandem training time, depending on the numbers helix provides for that mechanic. When considered from an IC perspective, rather than "GM Comment" perspective, I can see the validity of incorporating that if it doesn't take too terribly long.


Ah, and word of helix — delaying til next month. Ouch. I don't think we can consider that viable, unless maybe we want to fully support Seto's group in grief cubes, since they're in a rather bad position for hunting.

Edit: Also, I doubt Seto's barrier user would last a month delay. She likely lost a good friend in that fight, and being told to wait a few weeks while we get around to taking revenge on the creature is unlikely to sit well.
 
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Yeah, I agree that a month is too much time. At least we'll have the option of cooperative casting for the next one, let's hope.

We still need to triple up on barriers, though, and keep our clairvoyants out of the miasma.
 
Taya rolled a 2 on her clairvoyance check. Then a 6 then a 4. Good times.

So here's a hypothetical question. I gave a Guardian Angel for "The Abberant" omake since it was so good (essentially prevent a killing blow).

Would players like to use it on anyone? Or restrict it to just Mami?
 
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Why is everyone suddenly switching to rolz, and why does it always turn out bad? I think Shepard Quest just switched to rolz for a recent event and got an epically bad botch there too (we failed something that was like a 99.9% sure thing; the GM actually had no idea what to do).
 
Damnit. There goes the hope of few casualties.
Not really, you guys brought a huge amount of force compared to Incubator recommendations. And you planned pretty well. Even though rolls on seeing the enemy went poorly you had backups layered up so heavily that a starter boss like this one wasn't much danger.

This event is because A: no one ever seemed to wonder what was going on in the areas beyond your border regions (Even when I told Aranfan that his Tokyo omake are nothing like what I planned for Tokyo, never once did anyone think to ask about that), B: Because Lightmage called it repetitive and wanted mini events, C: Because people seemed to be forgetting that in PMMM things are never all positive.

It isn't meant to just obliterate you. Though if you had planned more poorly and hadn't taken the clue bat about asking Kyuubey, you could have had critical losses with rolls this bad.

When considered from an IC perspective, rather than "GM Comment" perspective, I can see the validity of incorporating that if it doesn't take too terribly long.
I often question how interactive and open I am with players. It's kind of a rare tact to take in quest mastering. Perhaps it damages the quest, but I find it really annoying sometimes when QMs let players just blunder about without revealing critical details. And what I consider obvious conclusions can be easily missed, and the reverse is also the case. So I figure that's me being bad at it so better to just avoid such problems.

Why is everyone suddenly switching to rolz, and why does it always turn out bad? I think Shepard Quest just switched to rolz for a recent event and got an epically bad botch there too (we failed something that was like a 99.9% sure thing; the GM actually had no idea what to do).
Yeah I had no idea how you could crit-fail Clairvoyance checks either? Brain aneurysm maybe, but meguca in this aren't subject to such body failures of that sort.

Mostly for me it was because invisiblecastle was unstable for a while. Plus Rolz lets me keep track of all my rolls much more easily.
 
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Yeah I had no idea how you could crit-fail Clairvoyance checks either? Brain aneurysm maybe, but meguca in this aren't subject to such body failures of that sort.

Mostly for me it was because invisiblecastle was unstable for a while. Plus Rolz lets me keep track of all my rolls much more easily.
Except... I think their RNG is broken. I don't have much time right now, but I just tried rolling a bunch of 1000d100s (Expected value 50500, standard deviation about 70) and got a set of rolls that are... really low.

1000D100 => 49178
1000D100 => 50731
1000D100 => 50507
1000D100 => 50585
1000D100 => 48755
1000D100 => 50289
1000D100 => 51638
1000D100 => 48740
1000D100 => 50414
1000D100 => 49039
1000D100 => 50795
1000D100 => 50171
1000D100 => 51106
1000D100 => 49358

The average is too low (5 expected standard deviations below the mean!), but what's weird is that the standard deviation is way too high, like 10 times too high (919 vs around 70). I'm not sure rolz can be trusted.
 
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Not really, you guys brought a huge amount of force compared to Incubator recommendations. And you planned pretty well. Even though rolls on seeing the enemy went poorly you had backups layered up so heavily that a starter boss like this one wasn't much danger.
A Class 3 Demon, who is geared to absolutely murder veteran meguca and steal their powers, is a "starter boss"? *is skeptical*
 
Looking at Haman's plan again, it does indeed look like he's completely depending on the vet clairvoyants to be the first defensive screen against the demon, with everyone just rushing in, and that really isn't sufficient. That seems like it would have a good chance of getting someone killed right at the start.

My own doesn't have any active defense, but it does have an alternative means of detection, and is set up to force the demon to trigger Mami's warning spread even if Taya is having difficulty spotting it. (It might be applied to Haman's as well, if Helix allows my 'general' tactics to apply to all proposals, but Haman's still lacks the extra prep time before bringing in the vets.) Still, TheEyes has stirred up my paranoia a bit, and I'm wanting to put the barrier set back in the initial insert team.

Goal #1: Don't get ganked by the demon before we're ready.
Goal #2: Find the demon.
Goal #3: Hurt the demon. (ie: engage/alpha strike)

@Aranfan : Any objections to me moving Kaoru and 3 barriers into the initial insertion?

Edit: Made some adjustments to my plan.

Unfortunately we have four votes--a solid majority--for Plan Let the Clairvoyants Get Ganked, so unless one or more of @Elder Haman, @landcollector, @Diomedon, @tenchifew decide that the same paranoia that convinced them that we can't delay long enough to learn how to fight defensively should also apply to not putting our clairvoyants in range of an Elite-level stealth super-demon, we're stuck.

Excuse me. I kind of resent declaring my plan "gank the clairvoyants." I also have barrier generators there, so I don't see how barrier generators w/o clairvoyants is more safe than clairvoyants w/ barrier generators. Furthermore, I have the Elites and Vets moving in together, so we have Taya and 3 clairvoyants looking for this thing. That has got to be better than depending just on Taya.

PS: Kyubey said the demon stealth is not very detectable using particulates. I assume that means the ribbon grass method won't work.

Well a star turn in that case was really just a high roll of 93. One high roll isn't what I use to determine Elite potential in any case though. So it's not like I'm going to just ignore a high roll. A roll like that can let a vet beat an Elite's stealth, so I figure Haman's general idea is just throw enough dice and get lucky.

(I use a lot of d100s, level advantage is not absolute in most cases chance still has a role, theoretically even a green could penetrate an Elite's stealth with a nat 100, though in Fluff I'd probably represent that as the Elite slipping on a banana peel and falling off a building or something.)

Exactly. Say the DC check for Taya is 50, and the DC check for the Vet Clairvoyants 80. Well one chance in 50, plus 3x one chance in five is better then just one chance in 50. Specifically, using those examples 74.4% chance (Elite + 3 Vets) is better than 50% chance (Elite alone).

Of course the DC check could be something like 90 for the Vets, but we don't know, and even then it helps.

Taya rolled a 2 on her clairvoyance check. Then a 6 then a 4. Good times.

So here's a hypothetical question. I gave a Guardian Angel for "The Abberant" omake since it was so good (essentially prevent a killing blow).

Would players like to use it on anyone? Or restrict it to just Mami?

Well crap. Nothing we can do against rolls like that. I'd say Guardian Angel is for Elites (excluding Kyouko Clone) and Kaoru. Being cold-blooded, they are the ones that are pretty essential for this plan.

EDIT: By the way, how did our Vets Clairvoyants roll?
 
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A Class 3 Demon, who is geared to absolutely murder veteran meguca and steal their powers, is a "starter boss"? *is skeptical*
No ranged attack, only one Elite level ability, moving by itself. Now put yourself in the shoes of a Tokyo meguca, where you'd likely currently have 3 of these active in your territory which may be working together and have more than one power each. (I'm so glad to finally have an excuse to let people understand just how things are happening just beyond your horizons. Though this doesn't change the fact that this is still a sandbox game, at least in my view, sandbox games can still have roaming elite enemies.)

Yes it can still absolutely murder Veterans by themselves, but that's what you have Elites for. People were wondering why Incubators allow Elites to exist.
 
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Class 3 Demon Event, Battle
Class 3 Demon Event, Battle

The tension as you mobilize a truly massive battle force is palpable. No one's really too sure of this. Outside of training times and SIMP meetings most girls have only moved in groups of 4 or 5 before. And it came so suddenly, barely hours after you first received the message you're martialing half the Serene into one attack group.

A huge number of cubes are handed out amongst the girls, which rapidly becomes awkward. Besides healers most of the girls have rarely carried more than three on their person before. Let alone half a dozen poured into pockets. You idly worry about that, since demons can respawn from grief cubes touching each other, but it shouldn't be a concern in such a short time frame.

You brief your girls on the situation, on everything Kyuubey has told you about this Meguca Hunter. You let them know that the all of the Elites of SIMP will be there and keep them safe, and pray you aren't lying. You stress to use grief cubes early and often no matter what they might feel, they need to be careful with the drain effect they'll be under.

With such a large group you opt to teleport. It would take too long to get there from Mitakihara just taking the bus. You teleport to the edge of Seto's territory to let your teleporters have a chance to recover before the fight. You get directions from Seto and run from there.

Seto meets you with the contingent you requested she bring shortly, rather shocked at the numbers you've brought to her aid. She makes sure you know how grateful she is even as you hand her the Kevlar equipment and go over last minute arrangements. You can feel the demon miasma now, but it's moving away. Kyouko idly comments that perhaps it's not so anxious to fight when it's not going to win.

Your group splits up into the designated squads and you let the healer team lag behind. The demon's movement means you won't really be able to set up a stationary field station as you'd like so they'll just have to keep their position carefully, you can coordinate teleports anyways.

The demon miasma is moving at about half your pace, not enough to outrun you, but significantly faster than the usual crawl. It's also massive. It's one thing to hear it over the phone; it's another to see it in person, far larger than any you've ever seen before. Your whole party slows up for a moment as you see it. You idly let the clairvoyants scry for it from just outside, but it's no good.

You have the three barrier users put up a layered shield over the entire party before you enter. You all stay grouped under it and slowly enter the miasma, you feel like twenty kilograms just settled on each of your shoulders. Your worry about your girls safety seems to double, but you know this is just the demon and push it aside completely. Your soul gem remains sparkling. The other Elites mostly handle it well, though Seto less so, her gem clouding a bit before she steels herself and straightens.

The Veterans you brought with are more affected. Aiko even falls to her knees. You push a grief cube against her soul gem yourself as Kaoru shakes her head clear and begins projecting her magical song. That seems to reduce the effects somewhat.

You order the clairvoyants to begin scrying, reminding them of their job in this again. The seconds inch by with none of them reporting anything. The demon seems content to just let you wait while its aura wears you down. Taya seems halfway to bursting a blood vessel on her forehead as she tries to penetrate its stealth. All she seems to be accomplishing is burning magic at an extraordinary rate. For your part you spread out ribbons around the group as much as you can for just an extra chance of warning.

It's a full minute, that feels like an hour of quiet tinkling of grief cubes against soul gems under a multicolored barrier before anything happens. Ayako's shout comes seemingly the same moment as the first barrier shatters from above despite the lack of buildings around you and Aiko collapses to the ground in pain from the feedback. Yui and Miwa's barriers manage to hold though even as Yui flinches from the hit against her barrier and takes a grief cube.

The storm of immediate reaction fire from your group is uncoordinated at best, more panicked flailing. Though maybe it's for the best given you still don't have a firm target. At least the shatter of Aiko's barrier gave you a general direction of "above" to focus fire in. The hail of attacks sent in that direction by your vets mostly misses and much of the remainder glances off, but at least you can make out your target from that.

Your Elite core's attacks are much more on target. Your battery of musket fire slams into the invisible monster, though without clairvoyant penetration you're knowing you hit more by the lack of the bullets continuing than anything else. Likewise Kyouko is throwing spears as fast as she can while the affectionately nicknamed Kyoclone follows suit, you put a bow on it to be sure which is which. Seto flickers into the shadow of the attacks for an instant, an oddly strange sight as you can still see her clearly in what looks like the path of your attacks but not being hit. Taya fails to respond, seemingly locked up.

You attempt to latch onto it with your ribbons, but it's gone before you can draw them taut on anything, Yui's barrier dimpling a bit as it does so. The engagement lasted only seconds. It still doesn't trip any of the ribbons around you.

You've no way of knowing how much damage you inflicted because the invisibility never failed. Your plan relied on being able to at least see it after the first engagement. You're tempted to order the rest of the squads to stay for another round, but following your standing orders, or perhaps just scared, the three squads of vets teleport out before you can decide.

Taya is still attempting to scry for the demon, but has nothing to say. You and Kyouko and Kyoclone form a circle around her, Seto standing next to her, daggers slightly quivering. You catch Kyouko smiling at you out of the corner of your eye, and have an amazing sense of nostalgia.

A thought flashes across your mind, some instinct perhaps, and ribbons form a dome above your group. Just in time it seems as the demon seems to have had no reason to wait after your vets left. You aren't able to harden them enough to stop it as it crashes through them, but it does give you an awfully nice target and slows it down as the five of you scatter. The air roars with gunfire as you open up on the revealed demon. For its part it goes after Kyoclone leaving her in a frantic evasion and parry that leaves her spear screeching from abuse as claws and teeth are deflected.

Seto flickers into view in front of it, stabbing directly into its maw, and it's jaws snap shut, your blood runs cold and you pull with strength you know you don't have to slow them. For just an eyeblink the ribbon across its jaw loses its color. And Seto flickers away, daggers left behind as she summons more. Taya spins around the demon her totsuka biting deep, trying to make up for her failures before.

Your own shots ping off it, deflecting. You can't really tell how injured it is though. You have an outline of ribbons but you still can't see it. Kyouko struggles to safely attack it with her spears.

It suddenly shifts its attack from the beleaguered but holding Kyoclone. Seto leaves behind a leg as she teleports completely out of the miasma. You get several telepathic calls from worried vets which you shut out as you focus on restraining the demon, guns abandoned for the moment.

The monster taking its attention away from Kyouko for even a moment was a mistake though as twin Kyoukos are free to tear into it, and its struggles against your ribbons weaken. Chunks become visible as they fall away. Finally it stays still and the stealth effect fails completely, you get a look as it begins to dissolve away. It's more intact than you'd like given how many attacks it absorbed.

The miasma around you begins breaking down.



Fight Complete:

Cube costs: .3 replacing a leg, 2.4 vets resisting miasma, 1.5 Kyuubey information = 4.2 cubes
Guardian Angel expended preserving Seto Tomoe (not actually related, just coincidence, maybe) from death.
Cube rewards: Kyuubey's bounty 9, Dropped 5.

Net gain: 9.8 Cubes
 
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Class 3 Demon Event, Battle
Snip

Fight Complete:

Cube costs: .3 replacing a leg, 2.4 vets resisting miasma, 1.5 Kyuubey information = 4.2 cubes
Guardian Angel expended preserving Seto Tomoe (not actually related, just coincidence, maybe) from death.
Cube rewards: Kyuubey's bounty 9, Dropped 5.

Net gain: 9.8 Cubes

Oho! Not so bad! I was sure we'd lose a vet or two with Taya's rolls. Though it clearly shows how we need to work on this tandem magic thing and the value of stealth & clairvoyants. I suggest splitting the Gross instead of the Net with Seto's group (so 7|7 split, or a profit of 2.8 cubes for us) as the opening move towards eventual absorption. Maybe include a line like, "You and your girls are always welcome with the Serene. Take care of yourselves and keep in touch."

With Seto's group seriously gutted of vets, I wouldn't be surprised if she decided that it was safer to join us, or at least get a lot closer to us. Even if they don't go for full absorption, it might be actually better. A friendly buffer state that we are not too close to, between us and the Tokyo deathfields is quite beneficial to us. Any big movements towards us will hit Seto first, trading her girls lives for info instead of our girls for the same info. Not that Mami would consider this. She'd want them to join, but doesn't want too be too pushy.
 
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