Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)

[Elder Haman]

I think it was more that Elemental power type wishes are going to be very rare.

helix talked about this.

Wishes to heal someone? Common. Thus Healing is a common wish magic.

Wishes to protect someone? Common. Barrier magic is common.

Wishes to hide/deceive/trick? Slightly less common. Illusion magic is slightly less common.

Wishes to find things? Less common. Clairvoyants are less common.

Wishes to travel? Less common. Teleporters are less common.

Wishes to know what someone is thinking? Rare. Telepaths are rare.

Wishes that result in elemental powers? Very Rare.

 

[Elder Haman]

@Elder Haman :
Counting things up in your proposal, I see you're allocating all 16 sets of kevlar. However I'd rather have Seto in full kevlar than Kyouko's clone. If Kyouko's clone gets dispelled and re-formed, it's going to lose the kevlar anyway. Better to provide it to the important person of the group we're helping. Can always toss some leather on Kyouko's clone as a tiny extra edge.

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Maybe... I guess... I'm just terrified that Kyouko Clone dying won't be good for Kyouko...

@inverted_helix Are concerns along those lines valid? Does Kyouko know? Also, is Seto willing to accept Kevlar from us, and do we have it in her size?

 

[inverted_helix]

In your defense, I'm pretty sure that the "funny" was for the proposal to bring the entire SIMP to the fight. Not the idea of delaying to train.

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This is correct.

All the girls listed on the first page have support-type magic. However only 24 of the 47 girls are accounted for.

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Something to keep in mind about this is that all of them are going to have offensive capabilities of some sort. Wish magic doesn't mean you don't have anything else at all.

Like Seto is a teleport specialist, but she's still a very capable combatant.

A list of possible powers for the offense side. I have no idea if we're even allowed to add new powers to our group (usual call to @inverted_helix to clarify), however since literally none of the identified members have any offensive powers defined, I'm assuming that it just never came up, and is in the vague, "decide when it's necessary" category. It could be that there's nothing particularly special about offensive powers, and that they're just 'themes' for each magical girl, as far as the system is concerned.

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They can all be assumed to have combat capability, you don't have specific girls denied ability to hunt. Their wish magic is neutral or positive to combat effectiveness. Teleportation for instance makes a melee fighter significantly more effective. Clairvoyance improves your situational awareness in combat. Sayaka for instance i noted a a healer type, but she still fights.

True. The issue was that there ought to have been some of those types among our list of available powers, if helix was doing a full power distribution, but since there wasn't, it felt more like something that just hadn't come up yet.

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That list on the front page is explicitly incomplete. Magic types are added as appropriate. I don't really see "Offense" as a real magic type because they're all going to have some sort of attack method.

Maybe... I guess... I'm just terrified that Kyouko Clone dying won't be good for Kyouko...

@inverted_helix Are concerns along those lines valid? Does Kyouko know? Also, is Seto willing to accept Kevlar from us, and do we have it in her size?

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There's significant feedback from it dying, but she's trained herself to be able to fight through it. She won't be able to immediately reform it though in combat timescale.

I'm ignoring sizes on armor because that would be really annoying to track for minimal impact.

 

[Elder Haman]

Based on that I will adjust my plan to give Seto the armor previously designated for Kyouko Clone.

EDIT: I'll do it when I get home though. Easier to find my post at home.

 

[Kinematics]

Setting up a plan for full vet committment in the fight. There are decent enough arguments to go this path that I'd like to have a well-defined plan for it, even if it's not chosen. Also, several of the tactics listed should apply regardless of the overall strategy.


[x] Plan committment

Team 1 - Elites [5]

Mami (full kevlar)
Kyouko (full kevlar)
Kyouko clone (full kevlar)
Taya (full kevlar)
Seto (full kevlar)​

Team 2A - Team Kaoru [4]

Kaoru (full kevlar) [AOE counter-aura]
Yui/Aiko/??? (full kevlar) [barriers, work together]​

Team 2B - Vets [6]

Shinobu (full kevlar) [teleporter]
Akeno (full kevlar) [inertia control]
1x clairvoyant (full kevlar) [situational awareness and team coordination]
3x Strong ranged magic/offense (full kevlar)​

Team 3 - Medics/etc

Second teleporter (full kevlar) (swaps with Shinobu on evac)
Healers
Detectors (ensure team stays out of miasma)
General backup​

Attempt to scan for the demon from outside the miasma. If successful, use that to decide on entry point, and bring in the vet team at the same time as the elites.

If outside scan failed, the Team 1 enters first with Team 2A as support (barriers set up before entry).

Enter in an open area, not underneath buildings that would allow the demon to drop down on us.

On initial entry, Mami uses grass-ribbons in a wide area around the group as a secondary detection method while Taya scans.

Once it's detected, have Mami attach a couple of her 'undetectable' ribbons (the kind she used on Homura in Rebellion) to the demon so that it can't stealth-disappear again, as a backup for Taya's tracking.

Once Team 1 engages, Team 2B can enter. Team 2A switches over to primarily supporting 2B.

During the fight, Mami's highest priority should be limiting its mobility.

During the fight, Kyouko's primary offense is the clone, to minimize risk to her main body.

If the barrier girls go down, Shinobu teleports them out while the other teleporter teleports in, in case an additional emergency teleport is needed. Kevlar is swapped to backup barrier users before the teleporters swap again.

Every vet keeps 1 spare grief cube to deal with the aura. If the fight lasts 10 minutes (1 full grief cube each), all vets teleport out and leave the remaining fight to the elites.

If the demon's regeneration rate is evaluated as too high with the vets present, Team 2 will evacuate and leave the remaining fight to the elites.

 

[Aranfan]

[x] Plan committment

 

[inverted_helix]

Once it's detected, have Mami attach a couple of her 'undetectable' ribbons (the kind she used on Homura in Rebellion) to the demon so that it can't stealth-disappear again, as a backup for Taya's tracking.

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I'm not really clear on them being undetectable. I mean watching the Mami vs Homura scene I think you refer to, Homura seems fully aware of the ribbon around her ankle from the start. She tries to destroy it right at the start, but fails, so then tries to defeat Mami without timestop to help, fails and then uses a distraction to get the chance to destroy the ribbon.

 

[Diomedea]

I'm not really clear on them being undetectable. I mean watching the Mami vs Homura scene I think you refer to, Homura seems fully aware of the ribbon around her ankle from the start. She tries to destroy it right at the start, but fails, so then tries to defeat Mami without timestop to help, fails and then uses a distraction to get the chance to destroy the ribbon.

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That entire sequence from Mami's penthouse to the confrontation it's on her, letting Mami follow her into timestop. She doesn't notice it until she looks for it (because Mami is moving in timestop strongly implies ribbon...)

 

[inverted_helix]

That entire sequence from Mami's penthouse to the confrontation it's on her, letting Mami follow her into timestop. She doesn't notice it until she looks for it (because Mami is moving in timestop strongly implies ribbon...)

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But once she looks it's visible completely. She even sees it draped over all the buildings.

That seemed more of Oblivious!Homu in her own little world (literally).

 

[Kinematics]

Hmm.. Might not be undetectable so much as unnoticeable unless you're actively searching for it (eg: doesn't impede movement, create drag, or other things that would cause you to notice something attached to you).

 

[TheEyes]

Might also have a notice-me-not on it, rather than being physically invisible.

 

[Elder Haman]

Updated plan to give Seto the Kevlar. See the plan here:

[X] Elite Team:

Mami (w/ full Kevlar)
Kyouko (w/ full Kevlar)
Kyouko Clone
Taya (w/ full Kevlar)
Seto (w/ full Kevlar)

[X] Veteran Team:

Karou (w/ full Kevlar)
Serene Barrier Girls x3 (w/ full Kevlar x3)
Serene Clairvoyants x3 (w/ full Kevlar x3)
Serene Teleporters x3 (w/ full Kevlar x3)
Serene Powerful Combat Vets x2 (w/ full Kevlar x2) (Prefer ranged weapons if possible)

Each Teleporter is assigned 1 Barrier, 1 Clairvoyant, and 1 Combat/Kaoru. So the team is divided into 3 squads of 4 each.

[X] Healer Team (well outside the miasma):

Serene Barrier Girls x3
Seto's Shielder (Vet)
Seto's Shielder (Green)
Seto's Healer (Vet)
Seto's Healer (Green)
Serene Healers x4


[X] Elites and Vets launch initial all out attack, the vets retreat (via teleport) immediately after attacking. This requires only one long distance teleport with each teleporter having to take a total of 4 people (counting herself). If the demon is not killed in the first strike the elites go into cautious grind mode (Mami = barrier, Taya = clairvoyance, Seto = teleporter keeping people from dying, Kyouko and Clone = main attack power).


[X] The healer team is on standby in another location where teleporters can take the injured to be healed. Seto might bring injured Elites here and then bring them back to the battle, if possible. For Vets it's more about getting them healed after the battle, and so hopefully reducing permanent casualties.

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[Elder Haman]

Vote tally:
##### 3.21
Current Tally starting at the last Kuybey information post (page 103 post 2560)

[X] Plan Alpha Strike
No. of votes: 1
TheEyes

[X] Elite Team:
[X] Veteran Team:
[X] Healer Team (well outside the miasma):
[X] Elites and Vets launch initial all out attack, the vets retreat (via teleport) immediately after attacking. This requires only one long distance teleport with each teleporter having to take a total of 4 people (counting herself). If the demon is not killed in the first strike the elites go into cautious grind mode (Mami = barrier, Taya = clairvoyance, Seto = teleporter keeping people from dying, Kyouko and Clone = main attack power).
[X] The healer team is on standby in another location where teleporters can take the injured too to be healed. Seto might bring injured Elites here and then bring them back to the battle, if possible. For Vets it's more about getting them healed after the battle, and so hopefully reducing permanent casualties.
No. of votes: 3
Elder Haman, landcollector, Diomedon, landcollector, Diomedon

[x] Plan committment
No. of votes: 2
Kinematics, Aranfan, Aranfan

 

[Aranfan]

There is something wrong with the vote counter, it's doubling up me, landcollector, and Diomedon.

 

[landcollector]

Yeah, it does that sometimes.

 

[Elder Haman]

Count is still correct though

 

[Aranfan]

So I guess it largely depends on @TheEyes if we do your plan or are tied.

 

[Kinematics]

On TheEyes' version of the Alpha Strike, it looks like the primary difference at this point is wanting to keep barrier girls in team 1 with the elites for extra defense (and thus needing Kaoru to help mitigate the aura, though it's a fairly small drop; from 0.4 with 2 to 0.3 with 3). That looks like the only real variance, other than extra teleporters on Haman's side, if I'm reading it right?

Regardless, I'm modestly confident that any of the plans will work fairly well. There's risk in all of them, but it's impossible to avoid that entirely. The alpha strike with 5 elites and 12 vets should have a decent chance of crippling the demon, if not killing it outright, so the remainder of the fight with just elites should be relatively low-risk. Likewise with the full commitment. The supplementary tactics should help avoid any nasty surprises dropping on us in all scenarios.

Basically just crossing my fingers now.

 

[Aranfan]

@inverted_helix, has any other Puella Group managed a year of no deaths like we did?

 

[TheEyes]

So I guess it largely depends on @TheEyes if we do your plan or are tied.

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Unfortunately I don't really like either alternative plan. I mean, I'm sure they'll all work, in that they'll all kill the demon, but I'm concerned that too many irreplaceable assets are being put at risk. Ideally I'd like to get tandem casting training done before we even start--I say the extra margin for safety is worth the small chance that the demon will target a particularly unfortunate civilian--but I seem to be entirely alone in that.

On TheEyes' version of the Alpha Strike, it looks like the primary difference at this point is wanting to keep barrier girls in team 1 with the elites for extra defense (and thus needing Kaoru to help mitigate the aura, though it's a fairly small drop; from 0.4 with 2 to 0.3 with 3). That looks like the only real variance, other than extra teleporters on Haman's side, if I'm reading it right?

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Well, the primary difference is that I want to set aside a few days of intense study and try to get tandem casting done for the barrier girls and the clairvoyants. I'd at least like to see what @inverted_helix comes up with for the costs; if we're talking 1 meguca-month for the barrier-girls I'd be willing to sacrifice the scouting of Area 1 because I'm reasonably certain that's where our poachers came from:

The scout sent to the urban area to the southwest met with equal lack of success, spending much of the month supposedly wandering the area without finding any magical girls at all. Yet one day when she returned had a message pinned to her back that she'd never even noticed, indicating a lack of appreciation for her continued spying as well as disdain for her ineptitude at the task and threatening retaliation. The girl involved was rather mortified when the note was pointed out. (Scouting failed, -10% diplomacy, -40% future scouting attempts)

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Barring that, though, the other big difference is that I want to keep our clairvoyants out of the miasma. I really want to keep our clairvoyant vets out of the miasma. They're rare--we only have four of them including Taya, and we're very lucky to have gotten those--and they make up a critical asset for us: our clairvoyant dispatch service.

• If we lose one of them we're not so bad off, though we can't use Kit at our restaurant anymore so we'll lose a bonus there.
• If we lose two of them we effectively are forced to put Taya on dispatch service duty from now on, effectively losing us an Elite for everything but special events.
• If we lose all three we're going to have to commit 30% more meguca to hunting every month. That's going to be crippling to us, right at the time that we're finally getting enough of a grief cube surplus that we can dedicate more cubes to research and other purposes.

 

[Elder Haman]

But committing the clairvoyants is the best way to avoid losing a girl to a sneak attack.

Anyway, I guess someone could tag all the people who have posted in this quest and see if they will come by to vote on this. Maybe put links to all the informational posts and the plans as well.

I gotta go to bed, so I don't have the time tonight.

 

[tenchifew]

[X] Eldar Haman

TheEyes has a point though that some training in tandem casting could be very helpful.
I doubt it will be possible in just a few days, though.

 

[Elder Haman]

Tandem casting is definitely something we should look at for the future.

 

[TheEyes]

But committing the clairvoyants is the best way to avoid losing a girl to a sneak attack.

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Not unless one of them has a Taya-level star turn, and I don't think @inverted_helix wants us having any more elites without expanding the territory. This demon ate an Elite-level stealth specialist, according to Kyuubey; barring tandem casting, a really lucky roll which we may as well make outside the miasma entirely, or Taya beating this thing's stealth check we're not going to find this Class 3 before it can make a sneak attack, and when it does I would rather it not be able to decapitate our forward intelligence capability.

What we need for the initial push are layered shields, or even better tandem layered shields, if we can do that. Throwing vets into a grinder in the vain hopes of beating an Elite-level stealth specialist will just end in pain.

 

[Kinematics]

if we're talking 1 meguca-month for the barrier-girls I'd be willing to sacrifice the scouting of Area 1

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The problem is that if it's 1 meguca month to train all 6 barrier girls, that means 5 days of delay, which is pretty significant. That's where 'consequences' starts piling up fairly high.

But committing the clairvoyants is the best way to avoid losing a girl to a sneak attack.

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I agree with TheEyes that the best defense against a sneak attack (other than Mami's grass giving it away) is a set of prepared barriers. The vet clairvoyants are going to have to be amazingly lucky to spot it, and this isn't something I want to trust to luck.