Yeah, that looks good.
Typo: Kyouko where -> Kyouko were
[x] Aranfan
Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)
- Thread starter inverted_helix
- Start date
Typo: Kyouko where -> Kyouko were
[x] Aranfan
Okay, first up, apologies. @Elder Haman sorry for being a prick yesterday; that was a lot more offensive than I intended. @everyone I just majorly screwed up my calculations for the expected variance. Going over my calcs again, the expectation and standard deviation are right in line with what you'd expect, and rolz, as best as I can tell with my rusty statistics knowledge, seems to work as expected.
So, yeah, sorry for stirring up the thread like that.
Onward and (hopefully) upward:
Oh, and
[x] Aranfan
So, yeah, sorry for stirring up the thread like that.
Onward and (hopefully) upward:
Oh, hey, how about a healing circle: set up an area where people's wounds just sort of regenerate themselves?
Would this even work? Do any of these girls actually have advanced combat training to teach others, or are we going to have to enroll our megucas in martial arts programs and marksmanship classes?
Oh, and
[x] Aranfan
I would actually argue that martial arts classes would be somewhat detrimental (though marksmanship would still be useful). Martial arts have been refine over the millennia for combating other humans, whereas the puella's enemies are most definitely not human. Basic training — tone, flexibility, strength, common sense tactics — would be useful, but we already provide that, and magical girl bodies would need different training anyway. To a large extent, we'll have to build up a 'martial arts' for magical girls from scratch.
I'm putting Kyouko on teaching it because she is flat out the most experienced and capable melee fighter we have (even aside from being an elite). And she's spent far more time than Mami fighting solo (though she did underhunt her areas to make it easier), so will have a much sharper refinement of pure combat skill. Mami can beat her because of hax ribbons cheats, but very few people will have that kind of edge.
Now, just because you're good doesn't mean you're a good teacher, but Kyouko has had a couple months helping out with the elite training as well. Given some time to bring a bunch of vets up to 'tolerable' performance levels, I'm sure she'll end up doing ok. She can drill-sergeant the girls out of the messy showing they made against the lizard demon.
@Aranfan
Would you consider putting the formal alliance against the super demons and offer to have a joint training event as the alternative action to making an offer for them to join our group? I think that's important. If they don't merge with us right away, then we want to take this opportunity to setup joint training.
Would you consider putting the formal alliance against the super demons and offer to have a joint training event as the alternative action to making an offer for them to join our group? I think that's important. If they don't merge with us right away, then we want to take this opportunity to setup joint training.
- Location
- South Africa
[x] Split cubes between the groups, 7 for each.
-[x] Even if we brought more people to the fight, we would never have even known it was coming if not for your warning, and the tragedy of your losses. A few cubes can hardly pay for that, but still..
-[X] Make sure Seto is doing okay and isn't too shook up over loosing a leg. Express concern and comfort. Also thank her for distracting the demon long enough that Mami and Kyouko were able to beat it. That was a very brave and risky thing to do.
-[X] Tell Seto that you are glad you were all able to work together and defeat the demon with out anyone else dying.
[x] We've allowed ourselves to relax in what we thought was a comfortable, if difficult, world. We'll be focusing our time on improving our training and more in-depth research so that we can better defend against these threats in the future.
[x] Have Mami decide whether or not to invite Seto's group to join depending on her read on the situation.
-[x] If they do join: Request the names of their fallen, and add them to the memorial shrine.
-[x] Even if we brought more people to the fight, we would never have even known it was coming if not for your warning, and the tragedy of your losses. A few cubes can hardly pay for that, but still..
-[X] Make sure Seto is doing okay and isn't too shook up over loosing a leg. Express concern and comfort. Also thank her for distracting the demon long enough that Mami and Kyouko were able to beat it. That was a very brave and risky thing to do.
-[X] Tell Seto that you are glad you were all able to work together and defeat the demon with out anyone else dying.
[x] We've allowed ourselves to relax in what we thought was a comfortable, if difficult, world. We'll be focusing our time on improving our training and more in-depth research so that we can better defend against these threats in the future.
[x] Have Mami decide whether or not to invite Seto's group to join depending on her read on the situation.
-[x] If they do join: Request the names of their fallen, and add them to the memorial shrine.
Hm. Helix has been dropping a lot of hints about Mamis powers being special even amongst other Elites lately. Not affected at all by the Demons Aura, able to see through the Sisters Mindwhammy, the Guardian Angel thing being an actual power of hers instead of some OOC mechanism.
Are those hints that she may have potential to become a Level 4 magical girl in time?
Are those hints that she may have potential to become a Level 4 magical girl in time?
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Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Added an anti-demon alliance.
Omake: Aftermath - Seto's Decision
Aftermath of the Demon - Seto's Decision
Tomoe Seto lay on her back, fuming at her missing leg, as she was tended to by the healers. Well, tended to by her healer, anyway; the Serene healer--Miki Sayaka--had taken one look at her leg, blanched, and instead set to healing her other injuries first, while Mai had started on the leg. Seriously, what kind of "veteran healer" got queasy over a single missing limb? These "Serene" were obviously a bunch of soft-hearted weaklings, like she had always thought.
Hurry, Mai!, Seto 'pathed to her healer, I need to get back in there, before those girls are overru-
Tomoe Seto was startled by a shout of triumph from the telepath girl--Tiara? Taura--and, amazingly, the miasma started to dissipate. Was it really over that quickly? How? Who had killed it?
In the moments following the battle, Seto was at least spared the indignity of being caught on her back when the Serene elites returned. Hoisting herself up on her newly-regrown leg, she did her best to look ready for a fight, ignoring the phantom pains in her new foot. This was a critical moment for them: the Serene girls, soft and weak as they are, currently outnumbered her own group more than three to one, and with four Elite-level fighters too.
Seto had heard the rumors of how the Serene operated, how they would "recruit" people by force and trick vulnerable girls into joining their group. The girls from Iwata, before they died, had been very clear about all of that, though their stories seemed rather vague and full of holes otherwise. If the Serene wanted to press a claim, right now, Seto and her group would be backed into a corner.
The Serene's yellow-haired leader landed first. Seto tensed, waiting for the inevitable, as Mami spoke, sealing her fa- "Ah, Tomoe-san, I'm glad to see you're up. Are you feeling okay?"
Seto blinked in confusion. "I... yes. Yes, I'm fine. Is the demon dead?"
Tomoe Mami nodded, and held up a bag. "Yes, and it dropped five units of grief cubes. Combine that with Kyuubey's bounty and we have fourteen. We'll split the gross evenly, as we agreed, for seven units each?"
Seto frowned. She saw where this was going: Mami was trying to leave their group with the smaller profit, trying to make herself look generous by comparison. "Ah, but your group had the bigger force commitment, Tomoe-san. We should just split the total profit, so we both come out even."
Tomoe shook her head, and looked sad for a moment. "Grief cubes aren't really important, Tomoe-san," she said, startling Seto, "People are. You lost girls, good friends, to this demon, and that's a higher cost than anyone should have to pay. The Serenissima Imperium has not lost a girl in over a year now-" Wait, what? "but I remember each loss, from those early days before all our operations were in place, and no amount of grief cubes or money could ever make up for the loss of even a single girl. Besides, even if we brought more people to the fight, we would never have even known it was coming if not for your warning, and the tragedy of your losses. A few cubes can hardly pay for that, but still.."
Seto stood, slack-jawed. "W-wait, you haven't lost a single girl... in a year? Seriously? H-how?"
A small grin stole across Tomoe's face. "A lot of hard work by everyone," she replied, "In fact, we've just started a system of rotating tactical oscillation hunting that- well, our public manual has the details, and should be available in a couple of weeks."
Seto felt suddenly weak in the knees. "P-public manual?" she said dumbly, realizing that she was completely losing control of the conversation, but unable to stop herself.
Tomoe nodded. "Yes, we are publishing a manual, free to all magical girls that we can reach, detailing what we've learned about demon-hunting, and how to make it as safe and as productive as possible. We project that our methods can safely over-hunt our territory by 10% without ever causing a dangerous spike in demon power; we could go higher, but I'm frankly not willing to tolerate any chance of our girls coming to harm."
Seto stood, speechless, as a look full of steel passed over Tomoe's face, instantly putting the lie to any claim of weakness. "But these... super-demons change everything," she continued, over Seto's dumbstruck gaze, "I'll admit, we've allowed ourselves to relax in what we thought was a comfortable, if difficult, world. We'll be focusing our time on improving our training and more in-depth research so that we can better defend against these threats in the future. I'm hoping that you'll be a part of that, Tomoe-san."
"I... I'm not even sure what you're saying," Seto admitted, her world spinning around her.
One of the fiery twins behind her--Sakura Kyouko--spoke up, "She means she wants you girls to join up! Not really sure why; you seem a little dim to me."
Behind Seto, the blue healer spoke up, a playfully predatory smile on her face. "Not everyone has the wisdom of years like you do, Obaa-san!" she retorted, to general laughter and Sakura's heated, but probably insincere, promises of painful, anatomically impossible, wrath.
Tomoe gave a sharp glance to her companion. "Kyouko! Too soon!" she softly rebuked, "All I'm suggesting for now is more a... strategic alliance, of sorts. I, I wouldn't say no if she and her friends decided to join, sure, but I wouldn't be so crass as to press someone to join so soon after losing people."
As Tomoe and Sakura continued their conversation via telepathy, Seto took a moment to look around at the girls arrayed around her. Most were looking around warily--a good precaution, as they were in enemy territory, after all--but whenever their eyes passed over Tomoe there was a flicker of... something. It wasn't until Seto looked back at Tomoe, and felt the flicker in her own Soul Gem, that she could name the feeling.
Hope. She hadn't felt it in so long; she almost didn't recognize it. All this time, she had been thinking that these Serene were weaklings, that their only real strength was that of numbers, but now she thought she saw something else. The kind of strength that would drive a person to pull out all the stops to save a rival, maybe even an enemy, rather than letting them die in a completely deniable way. The kind of strength that meant a veteran healer, one with over a year of experience, was called on so infrequently in a pitched battle that she was actually out of practice.
The strength of a soft heart...
Seto had a lot to think about, indeed.
Tomoe Seto lay on her back, fuming at her missing leg, as she was tended to by the healers. Well, tended to by her healer, anyway; the Serene healer--Miki Sayaka--had taken one look at her leg, blanched, and instead set to healing her other injuries first, while Mai had started on the leg. Seriously, what kind of "veteran healer" got queasy over a single missing limb? These "Serene" were obviously a bunch of soft-hearted weaklings, like she had always thought.
Hurry, Mai!, Seto 'pathed to her healer, I need to get back in there, before those girls are overru-
Tomoe Seto was startled by a shout of triumph from the telepath girl--Tiara? Taura--and, amazingly, the miasma started to dissipate. Was it really over that quickly? How? Who had killed it?
In the moments following the battle, Seto was at least spared the indignity of being caught on her back when the Serene elites returned. Hoisting herself up on her newly-regrown leg, she did her best to look ready for a fight, ignoring the phantom pains in her new foot. This was a critical moment for them: the Serene girls, soft and weak as they are, currently outnumbered her own group more than three to one, and with four Elite-level fighters too.
Seto had heard the rumors of how the Serene operated, how they would "recruit" people by force and trick vulnerable girls into joining their group. The girls from Iwata, before they died, had been very clear about all of that, though their stories seemed rather vague and full of holes otherwise. If the Serene wanted to press a claim, right now, Seto and her group would be backed into a corner.
The Serene's yellow-haired leader landed first. Seto tensed, waiting for the inevitable, as Mami spoke, sealing her fa- "Ah, Tomoe-san, I'm glad to see you're up. Are you feeling okay?"
Seto blinked in confusion. "I... yes. Yes, I'm fine. Is the demon dead?"
Tomoe Mami nodded, and held up a bag. "Yes, and it dropped five units of grief cubes. Combine that with Kyuubey's bounty and we have fourteen. We'll split the gross evenly, as we agreed, for seven units each?"
Seto frowned. She saw where this was going: Mami was trying to leave their group with the smaller profit, trying to make herself look generous by comparison. "Ah, but your group had the bigger force commitment, Tomoe-san. We should just split the total profit, so we both come out even."
Tomoe shook her head, and looked sad for a moment. "Grief cubes aren't really important, Tomoe-san," she said, startling Seto, "People are. You lost girls, good friends, to this demon, and that's a higher cost than anyone should have to pay. The Serenissima Imperium has not lost a girl in over a year now-" Wait, what? "but I remember each loss, from those early days before all our operations were in place, and no amount of grief cubes or money could ever make up for the loss of even a single girl. Besides, even if we brought more people to the fight, we would never have even known it was coming if not for your warning, and the tragedy of your losses. A few cubes can hardly pay for that, but still.."
Seto stood, slack-jawed. "W-wait, you haven't lost a single girl... in a year? Seriously? H-how?"
A small grin stole across Tomoe's face. "A lot of hard work by everyone," she replied, "In fact, we've just started a system of rotating tactical oscillation hunting that- well, our public manual has the details, and should be available in a couple of weeks."
Seto felt suddenly weak in the knees. "P-public manual?" she said dumbly, realizing that she was completely losing control of the conversation, but unable to stop herself.
Tomoe nodded. "Yes, we are publishing a manual, free to all magical girls that we can reach, detailing what we've learned about demon-hunting, and how to make it as safe and as productive as possible. We project that our methods can safely over-hunt our territory by 10% without ever causing a dangerous spike in demon power; we could go higher, but I'm frankly not willing to tolerate any chance of our girls coming to harm."
Seto stood, speechless, as a look full of steel passed over Tomoe's face, instantly putting the lie to any claim of weakness. "But these... super-demons change everything," she continued, over Seto's dumbstruck gaze, "I'll admit, we've allowed ourselves to relax in what we thought was a comfortable, if difficult, world. We'll be focusing our time on improving our training and more in-depth research so that we can better defend against these threats in the future. I'm hoping that you'll be a part of that, Tomoe-san."
"I... I'm not even sure what you're saying," Seto admitted, her world spinning around her.
One of the fiery twins behind her--Sakura Kyouko--spoke up, "She means she wants you girls to join up! Not really sure why; you seem a little dim to me."
Behind Seto, the blue healer spoke up, a playfully predatory smile on her face. "Not everyone has the wisdom of years like you do, Obaa-san!" she retorted, to general laughter and Sakura's heated, but probably insincere, promises of painful, anatomically impossible, wrath.
Tomoe gave a sharp glance to her companion. "Kyouko! Too soon!" she softly rebuked, "All I'm suggesting for now is more a... strategic alliance, of sorts. I, I wouldn't say no if she and her friends decided to join, sure, but I wouldn't be so crass as to press someone to join so soon after losing people."
As Tomoe and Sakura continued their conversation via telepathy, Seto took a moment to look around at the girls arrayed around her. Most were looking around warily--a good precaution, as they were in enemy territory, after all--but whenever their eyes passed over Tomoe there was a flicker of... something. It wasn't until Seto looked back at Tomoe, and felt the flicker in her own Soul Gem, that she could name the feeling.
Hope. She hadn't felt it in so long; she almost didn't recognize it. All this time, she had been thinking that these Serene were weaklings, that their only real strength was that of numbers, but now she thought she saw something else. The kind of strength that would drive a person to pull out all the stops to save a rival, maybe even an enemy, rather than letting them die in a completely deniable way. The kind of strength that meant a veteran healer, one with over a year of experience, was called on so infrequently in a pitched battle that she was actually out of practice.
The strength of a soft heart...
Seto had a lot to think about, indeed.
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From an outside perspective that makes sense, lol. (Normally Kyoclone is completely indistinguishable, for this battle Mami put a (mundane) bow on her just to make sure she could tell.) Probably not something Kyouko would be inclined to mention either.
Not quite the characterization I had in mind, but it works nicely. (From the battle I was trying to go for someone that was much more impacted by the losses. As evidenced by her being more affected by the aura and by her borderline suicidal tactics. That was really subtle for me though.)
The only question people never thought to ask about was what type of group this was. And it was a diplomatically assembled group with Seto significantly spending a lot more hours hunting than anyone in the Serene does to make up the high cube needs in a somewhat less densely populated area. (I actually roll a dice along a sort of spectrum of possible group political types, and this was in diplomatic dictatorship range like the Serene by chance.)
Will hopefully get next update up today. Though not sure if I'll do one final event update for that last vote, or just tack it on to the main update somewhere. Diplomacy roll was too low for them to just immediately join, even with an omake bonus. (DC for them to join was quite low too.)
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Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
I would be interested in seeing that list of political types. I'm certain there are variants I haven't thought of.
Yeah, well you can probably put it down as there still being some hard feelings about Kyouko driving girls out of her territory so ruthlessly.
That must have been hard on area 9. And I can definitely see the other girls thinking of Kyouko when she was solo, not as a single Elite controlling a territory, but as a pair of twins who are both Elites sharing a single territory between them. Maybe some of the more astute girls would guess that there was something weird about them, but would probably put it down to a weird twin wish.
So that's probably another impressive thing about Mami. Somehow she got the "Sakura twins" to join up with her - and in a subordinate position!
Actually,when it comes out that Mami was literally Kyouko's mentor way back... well it will continue to put an age and experience difference between her and even other Elites.
I have to admit, the specialness about Mami to me suggests that she is one of Madokami's "chosen," probably because Madoka trusts her to care for girls and establish a real strong and kind organization for girls.
That must have been hard on area 9. And I can definitely see the other girls thinking of Kyouko when she was solo, not as a single Elite controlling a territory, but as a pair of twins who are both Elites sharing a single territory between them. Maybe some of the more astute girls would guess that there was something weird about them, but would probably put it down to a weird twin wish.
So that's probably another impressive thing about Mami. Somehow she got the "Sakura twins" to join up with her - and in a subordinate position!
Actually,when it comes out that Mami was literally Kyouko's mentor way back... well it will continue to put an age and experience difference between her and even other Elites.
I have to admit, the specialness about Mami to me suggests that she is one of Madokami's "chosen," probably because Madoka trusts her to care for girls and establish a real strong and kind organization for girls.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
She was like that even before Madokami.
I almost think Mami might have the potential within her to become legendary with sufficient time and experience. Like Hortence. Probably a long long way off, and would require the tutoring of an existing legendary, if Helix lets it happen at all.
Also, I think I'm going to start working on another Puella Politics essay soon, this time about divisions. Things that might divide groups and keep them apart from each other.
This doesn't really fit too well. As to get to Area 9, the girl for Iwata would have had to pass through all the territories to the south of us, and then through the entire main area controlled our group (Mitakihara and southern Kasimono) before reaching area 9.
Not really. You've actually put more thought into your analysis of that particular segment of this world than I did. My focus has mostly been the borderline obsession with self-regulating feedback cycles.
I pretty much just have a spectrum of despotic military junta to absolute everyone votes on everything democracy (though in classic PMMM "it gets worse" fashion, absolute perfect democracy is some horror stuff too).
Well this is more a theme based guess than anything else
It's accurate (as has been said before there's a couple general paths to Legendary grade meguca status for Mami, though all of them are quite longterm), but not what I've been hinting at.This is a good explanation, stealing it.
All quite true.
In an OOC sense I basically put down your first ten turns averaging like 70 on d100s down as Madokami favoring you. But these hints are not about that. This is basically the last preplanned mystery I've got, and in fact has had super vague hints for a long time that I hope after figuring it out people will be like "ooh that's what that was about". (Having quite honestly totally forgotten about Kiriko and Oriko, whoops.) So I'm content to let this one percolate with vague hints for a while.
The Guardian Angel was basically Madokami giving you just a tiny bit of help. The rest relate to this mystery.
This is vaguely accurate to the mystery here.
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It's been months, and there's a curious reluctance for anyone to contact us voluntarily, which frankly should have happened at least once before now considering we're by far the 800 pound gorilla in the area. I figure it has to have been started somehow, and the Iwata girls wandering around spreading tales before they get killed, and the tales spreading around, fits with that.
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Diomedea
A piece of the continent
- Location
- The interblag
- Pronouns
- She/Her
For Mami being Legendary, remember that in Rebellion she manages to make a Ribbon based clone that was handling Homura quite well until Homu did a desperation move, including matching modern-automatic weaponry bullet for bullet with ribbon-muskets. Though that's probably a far way off from current Mami (since even base PMMM Mami could do things with enchantment that we still are having trouble with).
Oh I actually have a reasonable reason for this.
1. You took in Kyouko, that turned off much of the area to the east of you.
2. The north of you is all rural girls by themselves that don't really have the wherewithal to make diplomatic moves, and are likely just keeping to themselves as it's less risky.
3. To your west was area 1 that you pissed off.
4. Around Iwata there's the fact you pressganged/kicked out the people in the area.
Yeah honestly Mami in Rebellion was just total bullshit hax. I've toned her way back from that. That was basically borderline of what I'd consider Legendary. It was really unbalancing if you think of her in Rebellion terms, so for the purposes of this quest that was basically Madokami empowerment (though this quest is premised on Rebellion never happening anyways...)
Mami might already be legendary. She certainly was in Rebellion, the way she kept up with Homura. This time around Madokami may have given her a bit of that karmic destiny twining thing that Homura did to Madoka when she was looping, which is how the world seems to let her make such a large group even though such things were impassible before.Not really. You've actually put more thought into your analysis of that particular segment of this world than I did. My focus has mostly been the borderline obsession with self-regulating feedback cycles.
I pretty much just have a spectrum of despotic military junta to absolute everyone votes on everything democracy (though in classic PMMM "it gets worse" fashion, absolute perfect democracy is some horror stuff too).
Well this is more a theme based guess than anything else
This is a good explanation, stealing it.
All quite true.
In an OOC sense I basically put down your first ten turns averaging like 70 on d100s down as Madokami favoring you. But these hints are not about that. This is basically the last preplanned mystery I've got, and in fact has had super vague hints for a long time that I hope after figuring it out people will be like "ooh that's what that was about". (Having quite honestly totally forgotten about Kiriko and Oriko, whoops.) So I'm content to let this one percolate with vague hints for a while.
The Guardian Angel was basically Madokami giving you just a tiny bit of help. The rest relate to this mystery.
This is vaguely accurate to the mystery here.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
I don't think of it as having been Madokami empowerment, since that is kinda incompatible with the rest of rebellion. I consider it the result of Mami being in a much healthier place psychologically in the post-retcon world, and a reaction to having Homura on her team. Trying to keep up with a Legendary, and pull your weight when you have a Legendary on the team, means Mami probably put in a lot more training time to play catch up with Homura. Not as fast as being trained directly by a legendary, but if Mami has the potential to eventually become a Legendary, then it would speed the process up.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Oh wow. Our reputation is dirt, isn't it? Everyone else probably thinks we're a conquest group or something.
Some of that is beyond our control though, due to absolutely shit dice rolls.
The number cruncher in me is griping that that's not accurate; we actually overhunt by 75%.
Awwww.. Boo. I had something written up too, but I was holding off because it had a bit that assumed that they'd agreed to join, and I'd have to rewrite it to clean it of that assumption, and I wasn't up to doing that last night.
Having it relate to Kyouko, though, is very believable.
Since there was mention of hints of other stuff: Was the greying of the ribbon the Madokami guardian angel, or Homura? (Or is Homura Madokami's guardian angel?) Because it felt like an indicator of Homura's timestop, giving Seto just enough time to get her hands out of the demon's mouth.
No answer necessary; those were just the questions that went through my head when I read that.
Huh...
Since that whole thing took place inside Homura's fantasy world, I just assumed that Mami was so powerful because that is how Homura saw her.
I mean, to Homura, Mami was a pretty big deal. Her obsession with Madoka concealed that a little, but watch episodes 1 to 4 and episode 10 again, and it's clear that Mami was a big presence in Homura's mind.
1: Mami was Homura's trainer. I mean originally, in the very first loop Homura had. Madoka was Homura's peer, her fellow trainee, if ahead of her. Mami was the one that thought about how to use Homura's powers and who Homura had to gain approval from. There was never much threat that Madoka would be dissatisfied with her, but Mami was there judging and evaluating her. (Or so Homura believed). Homura gives off a sense that she thinks she is not good enough for Mami.
2: Homura is a bit terrified of Mami. In timeline 4, Mami nearly killed her. In the final timeline, Mami again caught Homura off guard and had her at her mercy. In many ways, Mami's power set is the best one for countering Homura's timestop hax. Whoever gets in the first strike will probably win.
3: Homura has affectionate feelings for Mami. Despite feeling judged, and despite the fear, Homura clearly still has feeling of love and affection for her old mentor. When Mami died in the final timeline, it was the first time we saw Homura's poker face crack. It was only a brief moment, and Homura quickly went back to pretending she's a cold heartless girl who couldn't care less about Mami, but she was saddened by Mami's death. And again in Rebellion, Homura could not bring herself to kill Mami. Even when Homura gets her murderface on, she hesitates to sacrifice Mami. In way I doubt she would for Sayaka. I mean really, if she wanted to stop Madoka from contracting at all costs, why didn't she kill Mami right away from ambush?
Psychologically, Mami represents her disapproving parent. Always pointing out her mistakes, both practically and morally. The mentor she can never live up to. The rival for Madoka's affection, that Homura is never enough to truly challenge. Yet at the same time, Mami's betrayal of her in timeline 4 makes it so Homura feels unable to embrace Mami as an exemplar either.
So to me it seemed perfectly natural that when Homura is trying to break free of her fantasy, that she would have to under go a confrontation with Mami. And that she was unable to defeat Mami directly, and was forced to accept her as an ally instead.
Of course the Mami in Homura's head is going to be bullshit hax. That's how Homura sees Mami.
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Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Shame, if you had posted it the bonus might have been enough to put it over the top.
That's a very insightful analysis, with one problem. The Mami in Homura's head was the real Mami from that timeline, same with Kyoko and Hitomi and Kyosuke, and that teacher. Doesn't mean that Mami wasn't getting a boost from being in Homura's gemscape, but it wasn't just a mental construct of Homura's either.
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Well yeah, that's what I meant.
I mean, Nagisa and Sayaka had more independence because they still remembered everything, while Madoka is Madokami (even if veiled). Mami and Kyouko though seemed much more under the influence of the fantasy.