I don't want to wait 18 years before building warships.
Ymaryn Successor Quest (Paths of Civ AU)
I don't want to wait 18 years before building warships.
If we really want to have the peacocks declare a rebellion/civil war, we should at least wait until we finish integrating Thunder plateau. I don't want to worry about triggering PSN when a large portion of our upper level government and military side with the revolters, and TP doesn't have a local government yet. It'll be hard enough as it is now that we've lost our Heroic general.
[X] Plan Support Provinces
[X] Plan Repay Pamplona
[X] Plan Support Provinces
[X] Plan Repay Pamplona
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You have to weigh what's worse: internal revolt with an unknown outcome1, or waiting for warships.
Warships are not actually essential, and we have many other things on our todo list in the meantime.
1 I say "unknown", but most of our ruling class is Peacock...
Warships are not actually essential, and we have many other things on our todo list in the meantime.
1 I say "unknown", but most of our ruling class is Peacock...
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[X] Plan Support Provinces
[X] Plan Repay Pamplona
Dude, you realize that the vast majority of our veterans are peahen? Hell, Darfyd might even come out of retirement and help put down the revolt himself.
The veterans are very much 'fuck that noise' when it comes to another war.
[X] Plan Repay Pamplona
Dude, you realize that the vast majority of our veterans are peahen? Hell, Darfyd might even come out of retirement and help put down the revolt himself.
The veterans are very much 'fuck that noise' when it comes to another war.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The majority of our army is Peahen however.
I'm specifying the upper levels of our military, not the rank and file.
In general, I expect that the lower in status a person is, the more likely that they are to be a peahen than a peacock.
So the question is how much the peacocks can force peahens to fight against their own best interests (e.g. how many troops can a general "force" to fight if the general defects, even if a large portion of the troops are peahens). Given our elitist status, I'm not optimistic.
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I do wonder though if the corrollary to strengthening our military strengthens the peacocks is that every year we don't take strengthen our military weakens them.
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Civil war is actually the case where the Peahens are most likely to end up winning (though at serious loss of stability, considering that the army and masses would be overthrowing the previous patricians). Do we want to manage a post-rebellion, or start going into development?
The worst case are the subtle options. The Peacocks can just... take over. They are the majority of the ruling class. In that case, the Peahens wouldn't automatically take action--good chance the ruling Peacocks would have to mess up badly before they do (and by "mess up", I mean drag the Ymaryn into more wars).
The worst case are the subtle options. The Peacocks can just... take over. They are the majority of the ruling class. In that case, the Peahens wouldn't automatically take action--good chance the ruling Peacocks would have to mess up badly before they do (and by "mess up", I mean drag the Ymaryn into more wars).
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Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
[X] Plan Repay Pamplona
Lord's Loyalty means that rebellion are going to be going against our value. Just because you're a peacock doesn't mean you'll defect. This is going to shrink the size of folks available to rebel against the King.
But do we really want to spend a year or more being distracted by a rebellion?
But do we really want to spend a year or more being distracted by a rebellion?
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm doubtful. They would need to take out both the King and the Heir to do so. They have no political means to do this and any intrigue methods, we got a Peahen Shadow Chief with a full functional counter-espionage network in the Ymaryn Empire.
So yes, it is technically in the realm of possibility, but the odds are stacked highly against it. Yes, the majority of the nobility are Peacocks, but not all of them while the military, spies and average person are mostly Peahens. They would need to take our our king, the guy who restored the Ymaryn Empire, our Heir, the Shadow Chief and the War Chief. And that is assuming that all of the Peacocks will go along with it. I doubt that the majority of our nobility is just going to overthrow the government over a single loan.
Edit: Plus the Peacocks are weak. We have repeatedly weakened them, including one time that was 'gravely', and they only have 10% of costing us Influence now if we don't do what they want instead of a guaranteed chance like when we hadn't restored the Ymaryn Empire. And there is Dafydd. Retired or not, I doubt he will just tolerated the Peacocks overthrowing the rightful government and dragging the Ymaryn Empire into a war with the biggest power on the block.
The Peacocks are not in a position to just take over and I really feel suggesting it is a possible outcome is rather fear monger-y.
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Wait, so will there actually be a rebellion if we give a loan to the Khem!!!??
That sounds like a big enough deal that it should take that option off the table!
Causing a ruckus is very different from an outright rebellion.
@Aranfan
Sorry to ping you again. Does Balthazar expect a rebellion if we give a loan or other aid to the Khem?
That sounds like a big enough deal that it should take that option off the table!
Causing a ruckus is very different from an outright rebellion.
@Aranfan
Sorry to ping you again. Does Balthazar expect a rebellion if we give a loan or other aid to the Khem?
Agreed; this is why I think their victory isn't certain. On the other hand, most of the rulers are Peacocks, so neither is Balthazar's victory.
Even if they're angry, +Loyalty will help keep them in line.
And, narratively, they might start associating well-being more with the doing well by the Ymaryn state than with "taking the Rus breadbasket" (and best case: use some of the cash to help develop routes to the Rus, intermingle with them, reduce tensions).
WW is probably going to continually lose loyalty so long as they have PSN and consider the Rus as part of their core territories.
I think that we should support WW when we are planning to go into a war to keep them from making a second front and triggering PSN, or whenever it looks like they might be becoming disloyal.
So yeah, it doesn't look urgent right now (unless we want to trigger the peacock rebellion next turn). It might be preferable to paying off a loan, as it least it invests in restoring our internal infrastructure after the war, but that might be below our level of abstraction.
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- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
Good
[X] Plan Support Provinces
-[X] Authority: Support Province: Hathytta (85%, 1 Year, Expensive, +Province Loyalty)
-[X] Influence: Support Province: Western Wall (85%, 1 Year, Expensive, +Province Loyalty)
-[X] Personal: Relax with Family (-Stress)
[X] Plan Oshha
-[X] Authority: Support Province: Give one of the provinces considerable sums of money to assist in their current infrastructural projects. (85%, 1 Year, Expensive, +Province Loyalty)
--[X] Hathytta
-[X] Influence: Offer Loan: The Melkut Ymaryn is rich beyond measure, but other polities need money too. You could offer to lend them cash when they need it. (Narrative%, 1 year, -1 Treasury, unlikely +Opinion)
--[X] Khemetri
-[X] Personal: Relax with Family (-Stress)
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Especially with the fate of rebels so fresh in everyone's minds.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The Peacocks are weak. They gone from being strong enough to take an Influence for certain if we don't do what they want to only having a 10% and being vulnerable to disintegrating if their next temper tantrum goes against them.
They might be able to pull off a rebellion or making any attempt on the king's life. Starting a civil war or just taking over the government is beyond them.
They might be able to pull off a rebellion or making any attempt on the king's life. Starting a civil war or just taking over the government is beyond them.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Unlikely. Very unlikely.
The vast majority aren't going to rebel, because their loyalty is to the king plus Lord's Loyalty. And the average soldiers aren't going to follow their ruler just because they say so. As soon Darfyd comes calling, they'll defect.
Also, his officer corps are loyal to Darfyd, and by extension the King.
Do you really think the officers, who fought under Darfyd are going to join the peacock rebellion?
@Oshha: Parliament already elects the heir (and is allowed to replace her anytime).
The peacocks are "weak" in that they're no longer supported by the common people. Which means that a civil war will ultimately end up as a Peahen victory. But if it gets to that point, serious chaos.
Normally, the Peacocks' anger would be expressed over time, 10% over 20 years. However, once it becomes clear their demands aren't going to be met, they will express it all at once. What form that takes, can't say. But if there's a ruckus to "lose", some form of unrest becomes fairly likely.
The peacocks are "weak" in that they're no longer supported by the common people. Which means that a civil war will ultimately end up as a Peahen victory. But if it gets to that point, serious chaos.
Normally, the Peacocks' anger would be expressed over time, 10% over 20 years. However, once it becomes clear their demands aren't going to be met, they will express it all at once. What form that takes, can't say. But if there's a ruckus to "lose", some form of unrest becomes fairly likely.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hmm...I don't remember that being the case. I'm pretty sure if it as a case of you being elected means that you are elected and you can't be replaced on a whim.
We also have a mixture nobility and commoners for officers. Dafydd's second in command was a commoner while the Iron Flowers were recruited from the poor. If Dafydd's second in command took his position when he retired, it means we got a female Peahen commoner for our War Chief.
I'm pretty sure that is not how it works. Their current upset is basically the same thing as revanchism except we don't have to do it to avoid a death spiral and the Influence loss has a 10% chance instead of a 100% chance.
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