- Location
- barking
Speaking of tolkens themes greed is something weird since in a way greed both lead to the downfall of Foldo but also saved the world (from sauron) since Golems greed for the ring is what got it destroyed
Westernesse: A Númenórean Colony Quest
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
- Location
- ferreries
I'm not sure that last one counts, since that was a direct intervention from Eru.
- Location
- Australia
We'll be two vehemently differing but eminently useful voices in the council of Târ Nîlon, then! Although as for 'only this colony,' I can't see that it'd be a bad thing for the other colonies of the Faithful to survive and prosper more than in canon. Even if we can't prevent the Downfall to begin with - imagine a Last Alliance where Gondor and Arnor are thrice as powerful as in the original timeline. We'll still end up fading and dwindling, because Tolkien, but it'll be really satisfying to just utterly curbstomp Sauron a second time!
- Location
- Asia
Perhaps not "only this colony", more: Our colony first and foremost and just about anything else is secondary.
But yes, I look forwards to working along with you, councillor.
But yes, I look forwards to working along with you, councillor.
SteelRaptor
Angry again
Excuse Me?????
I'm not seeing how that made the Story worse for wear.
- Location
- Australia
Oh, it makes for a great story - inevitable tragedy and doomed fate and so on and so forth, fantastic stuff in a purely aesthetic literary sense. It's the application to morality that I have fundamental problems with, but that sort of discussion will probably end in disciplinary action by staff.
Tales of Númenor: Zigûrun
Telamon
A corvid.
- Location
- Texas
He was tall, as tall as one born of the royal house, and his face was in beauty surpassing even the princes of the elves. His brow shone with wisdom, and great pride and great sternness alike were writ clear and grave in his features, which were as strong and arched as a statue's and more flawless even than marble. He seemed then a far cry from all that had been spoken or held in our counsel regarding him; and I questioned in my heart even the truth of my own eyes that had seen elsewhere his works. I had readied myself for the audience in both body and mind, and came well-girded and full-armed, but my sword felt now foolish where it hung at my side, and my resolve seemed all at once without purpose or need. For above all as a high lord he appeared: one noble in judgement and wrath alike, full of heart and glad of face; a peer of kings. Despite ourselves, our spirits lightened to look on him. It were as if one of the great lords had come again out of the West, and stood now revealed in the fullness of his glory. For a terrible instant I doubted our commitment, or even the need of it. Perhaps we had been deceived.
Yet most arresting of all were his eyes, and so terrific was their gaze that I gaped openly to look upon them. They were brilliant, bright with an ancient knowing which is beyond even the elves, and the light of them was as piercing as all the spears of the Host of the King, and in force mightier still. An incredible awe came over me, and I suddenly knew with utmost certainty that those eyes — those terrible eyes — could lay bare the deepest hearts of men with but a glance. Even as I perceived this, he turned the fullness of his face upon me like a sun in it's splendor. I trembled then as if a child, and reeled where I stood, and would have fled had the nerves not gone from my legs. Somehow I knew that he had perceived utterly all of my thought, and found it amusing. And then —- and this I will never forget, for though full on five score years and half again have passed since that day, my hand shudders still to write of these things, and a mad and wordless fear threatens to seize my mind — as he stared at me he smiled, a cold and mirthless thing, and it seemed for a second that his eyes blazed with red fire.
So came Zigûrun.
— A record recovered from the writings of Súrion, Warden of the Agathurush in the years of Tar-Minastir the King, recounting an ancient parley on the eve of the war in the north. Compiled and edited by Zilbaphar and Urzabel in the 87th year of the rule of Tar-Vanimeldë the Queen, to be preserved for the long years in the House of Lore.
Yet most arresting of all were his eyes, and so terrific was their gaze that I gaped openly to look upon them. They were brilliant, bright with an ancient knowing which is beyond even the elves, and the light of them was as piercing as all the spears of the Host of the King, and in force mightier still. An incredible awe came over me, and I suddenly knew with utmost certainty that those eyes — those terrible eyes — could lay bare the deepest hearts of men with but a glance. Even as I perceived this, he turned the fullness of his face upon me like a sun in it's splendor. I trembled then as if a child, and reeled where I stood, and would have fled had the nerves not gone from my legs. Somehow I knew that he had perceived utterly all of my thought, and found it amusing. And then —- and this I will never forget, for though full on five score years and half again have passed since that day, my hand shudders still to write of these things, and a mad and wordless fear threatens to seize my mind — as he stared at me he smiled, a cold and mirthless thing, and it seemed for a second that his eyes blazed with red fire.
So came Zigûrun.
— A record recovered from the writings of Súrion, Warden of the Agathurush in the years of Tar-Minastir the King, recounting an ancient parley on the eve of the war in the north. Compiled and edited by Zilbaphar and Urzabel in the 87th year of the rule of Tar-Vanimeldë the Queen, to be preserved for the long years in the House of Lore.
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- ferreries
Zigurūn (meaning: The Wizard) is what the Numenoreans call Sauron.
Sauron. It means Sauron.
Edit: Ninjaed.
Edit: Ninjaed.
oh shittt
- Location
- ferreries
Don't worry, this happened millenia ago, literaly. Tar-Minastir ruled from 1731 to 1869. We're in the year 2755. This was probably an account of the War of the Elves an Sauron.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I got goosebumps just reading this. Wait I thought that the form that Sauron took in the second age was that of Annatar lord of gifts. Is this a new form used to appear before the Numenoreans? Did he appear this way before Ar-Pharazon?
But the fact that the QM is posting it now, is concerning.
God, that was really intense.
Sauron liked to assume many forms, in the years where he could still appear pleasingly before the eyes of Elves and Men.
It would not surprise me if he had a form which he used as a seducer and a beguiler, and the form of a wise warrior-king which he would choose to adopt if he was negotiating on the eve of war. As well as much else besides. There may well be guises which never made it into written history, because no one lived to record that it was Sauron.
EDIT: If he so wished, Sauron could walk right into our colony in disguise, and perhaps only Imrazôr himself would be able to tell it was him. That's how terrifying a foe he is.
(Luckily for us, he probably has more important stuff to do with his time.)
Sauron liked to assume many forms, in the years where he could still appear pleasingly before the eyes of Elves and Men.
It would not surprise me if he had a form which he used as a seducer and a beguiler, and the form of a wise warrior-king which he would choose to adopt if he was negotiating on the eve of war. As well as much else besides. There may well be guises which never made it into written history, because no one lived to record that it was Sauron.
EDIT: If he so wished, Sauron could walk right into our colony in disguise, and perhaps only Imrazôr himself would be able to tell it was him. That's how terrifying a foe he is.
(Luckily for us, he probably has more important stuff to do with his time.)
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- Australia
Luckily for us he largely sees such things as beneath him nowadays.
that would stop if we catch his eye (pun intended); or become a large enough thorn in his side...
or he gets really bored. While highly malicious, sometimes he just decides to pull a Loki. His foes uncertainty over his actions making the whole thing even more entertaining to him, allowing him to misdirect and confuse us.
something he used to great effect, particularly against Men (elves being far more cautious, not that it helped Eregion)
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- barking
considering this is sauron theirs probably a thousand other names he has taken in his time. After all if I recall he did once go by the necromancer (or was that just in the hobbit movie)
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- The internet
Its worth noting that the Ringwraiths are arguably underqualified to serve as Sauron's chief lieutenants. At this point Sauron's out of Elder Vampires, Dragons, Balrogs, ancient werewolfs or children of Ungoliant willing to serve as his right hands.
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- ferreries
The movies got that part right actually.
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- Canada
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- Him/He
Alright, I tried my hand at an omake, showing how Tar Nilon might be perceived in-universe. Hopefully it doesn't sound too much like a Political Sciences analysis 
Of a City Like No Other
It has often been said and written that Tar Nilon was a city of the Faithfull, indeed the city in which the ideas of the King's Men where most audaciously flouted. Such a sentiment is understandable. After all, what could be more unlike the King's Men staunch belief of the Numenoreans' superiority over all other incarnate beings in Arda then Tar Nilon's willingness to threat the Enedwaithen, a poor, belegared tribe of Middle-Men with its back against the wall, as, if not its equal then at least as a peer? What could be more unlike the King's Men's belief in the supreme value of Numenoreans culture, of its superiority over all others and of their obsessive desire to ensure that no aspect of Numenorean life be governed by another culture then Tar Nilon's greed for knowledge on all people and on both Eldar and Longbeards in particular as well as for ancient lore? Last, but oh certainly not least, Tar Nilon's Bêthzadanism powerfully related it to the Faithfull's colonies.
And yet, behind this seemingly clear facade a more complex portrait emerge. No matter their sympathies for and feeling of kinship with the Middle-Men most Faithfulls would have been, at the very least, uneasy at Tar Nilon's comparatively equalitarian ethos. Moreover, in Tar Nilon's evocation of the Edain's own humble begining as a justification for their willingness to threat the Middle-Men as peers one could easily detect a slight reproach at the Eldar, who did not do so in the old days, that the King's Men did not disdain, even if they vehemently disagreed with the attitude born of it. Moreover, while a follower of the Bêthzadan in its form Tar Nilon's comparatively equalitarian ethos ensured an atmosphere surprisingly similar to those of those followers of the Makâthai of the Far South, King's Men among King's Men if there was any.
Situated between the often Faithfull colonies of the North and the mainly King's Men settlements of the South Tar Nilon was both and neither, a product of all Numenorean society yet unique in its kind and its beliefs. Only time was to tell if this city like no other was to be remembered as a short lived oddity or as the light that would show a new path in Arda...
Of a City Like No Other
It has often been said and written that Tar Nilon was a city of the Faithfull, indeed the city in which the ideas of the King's Men where most audaciously flouted. Such a sentiment is understandable. After all, what could be more unlike the King's Men staunch belief of the Numenoreans' superiority over all other incarnate beings in Arda then Tar Nilon's willingness to threat the Enedwaithen, a poor, belegared tribe of Middle-Men with its back against the wall, as, if not its equal then at least as a peer? What could be more unlike the King's Men's belief in the supreme value of Numenoreans culture, of its superiority over all others and of their obsessive desire to ensure that no aspect of Numenorean life be governed by another culture then Tar Nilon's greed for knowledge on all people and on both Eldar and Longbeards in particular as well as for ancient lore? Last, but oh certainly not least, Tar Nilon's Bêthzadanism powerfully related it to the Faithfull's colonies.
And yet, behind this seemingly clear facade a more complex portrait emerge. No matter their sympathies for and feeling of kinship with the Middle-Men most Faithfulls would have been, at the very least, uneasy at Tar Nilon's comparatively equalitarian ethos. Moreover, in Tar Nilon's evocation of the Edain's own humble begining as a justification for their willingness to threat the Middle-Men as peers one could easily detect a slight reproach at the Eldar, who did not do so in the old days, that the King's Men did not disdain, even if they vehemently disagreed with the attitude born of it. Moreover, while a follower of the Bêthzadan in its form Tar Nilon's comparatively equalitarian ethos ensured an atmosphere surprisingly similar to those of those followers of the Makâthai of the Far South, King's Men among King's Men if there was any.
Situated between the often Faithfull colonies of the North and the mainly King's Men settlements of the South Tar Nilon was both and neither, a product of all Numenorean society yet unique in its kind and its beliefs. Only time was to tell if this city like no other was to be remembered as a short lived oddity or as the light that would show a new path in Arda...
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- ferreries
We have a Hall of Speakers though?
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- Canada
- Pronouns
- Him/He
My bad, hopefully it make better sense now.
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- UK
@Telamon I'm sorry to bother you, but I had a question that I was hoping you might be able and willing to answer.
With the Shapers we ended up having 14 ships for our expedition, and a population for our colony of about 1500 or so. What I was wondering was how many ships and people we would have started out with had we taken one of the other options instead?
I'm particularly curious about what it would have been like if we'd started with the Guild of Venturers, since they had such a large and powerful monopoly on colonisation.
- Location
- Great Khanate of Scotland
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well Gollum was only there to seize the Ring because Frodo and earlier Bilbo had shown him mercy.
"Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Pity, and mercy. Many that live deserve death, and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be so quick to deal out death in judgement. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play in it, for good or evil, before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many."
It's also suitably ironic that the Ring's own power was its undoing.