Also it should be said that the Kings of Men option is listed as " This is a majority position among your people -- you can hardly help but hear them cheer for it in the streets. Should you pick this option, you will be more friendly to the Middle-Men diplomatically, seeking to form deals, educate, and peacefully vassalize." It is by far the most popular choice and gives us wiggle room in how to deal with the tribes of middle men we see in middle-earth.
 
On representative, I'd be okay with either Hall or Makatha. I somewhat lean towards Hall to keep more options and allow the system to be easily scalable, but Makatha allows more heroes and get know exactly what people want. It'd be quite useful to establish a direct line between us and our people.

Also it should be said that the Kings of Men option is listed as " This is a majority position among your people -- you can hardly help but hear them cheer for it in the streets. Should you pick this option, you will be more friendly to the Middle-Men diplomatically, seeking to form deals, educate, and peacefully vassalize." It is by far the most popular choice and gives us wiggle room in how to deal with the tribes of middle men we see in middle-earth.

It's deciding to culturally assimilate and vassalize the locals. We get wiggle room, but within that institutional framework. Men of the West gets us more information and treat them as equals. King of Men means they aren't equals. We won't be conquering or enslaving them, but it is filled with the implicit understanding that they'll eventually come around to our ways. It's establishing ourselves as a hegemon over them.
 
Tolkien's legendarium is full of wise teachers arriving from the West -- the Istari, perhaps most famously. When evaluating this example, we should take care that we act more like Olorin than Curunir; and much better to not teach them at all than to mentor them at first, but in time come to believe ourselves their masters. That is some of the hubris and evil that marked Numenor, in later days.

Semi-in-character rant aside, I rather like treating them as equals. Anything else feels both condescending and prone to cultivate the idea of being "better" in our current settlement. As a side-benefit, it may well be somewhat diplomatically disarming to those used to dealing with either the Faithful or the King's Men.
 
We built our entire colony with the fall of Numenor in mind. We've been meta gaming from day one.

Men of the West also provides practical benefits by allowing us to keep track of different Middle Men realms, instead of how we've been loosely keeping track of them based on geography.
That's true, and it is rather difficult to not think of it, but I just don't really like it, ya know? Like, I try to suppress my OOC knowledge of [insert fictional universe here] while voting as to try to get in character.

Imperialism would solve that problem quite handedly. :V :V :V

You know thats a point I didn't think of what if it was their obsession with pureblood incest that cost them their lives instead of mixing with "lesser blood" I think that would fit
That is incorrect. Tolkien confirmed in, I believe Appendix A, might have been one of his Letters, that it was the loss of the Land of the Star which caused the shortening of their lifespan. Eldacar died only three years younger than his father, despite being a 'half-breed'.

I can't remember Tolkien making any note of the Dunedain going for incest often. Then again he did not really inspect the politics of nobility marrying all that much. I do know that he mentioned that after the Kinstrife Gondorian nobles related to the King would take spouses of 'lesser stock' to throw off suspicion of plotting a rebellion.

Gilraen perhaps? I'd have to reread the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen.

Edit: It's not Gilraen. The grumbling about the marriage came from the 'lesser stock' issue and she in turn grumbled about Aragorn liking Arwen. I might have actually been thinking of Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain. But I would swear that there is some sort of instance where something similar happened among the Dunedain of Gondor. It's not Arvedui. Damn it.

Dude, all i did was bring up a canon event to prop up my argument. I was not "lecturing" you. You just proved me wrong about something a few posts ago.

But we're not playing Numenor, we're playing as the small colony. And playing as the smart colonizer that survives and outlasts the Empire because it took a radically different ideology is interesting in my opinion.

I'm an Imperum supporter and Emperor fanboy. If I went around baseless accusing people of perceived racism in a fictional online quest, I'd be a fucking asshole hypocrite
I apologize for that remark. I do admit that it would be interesting to see how it would work, but my preferences lean towards (Faithful-style) imperialism due to it being Numenorean and I just want to read it.

I expect that sort of thing in these sorts of arguments and I thought it would be best to head it off then, before accusations start flying. I haven't interacted with you before, so I was thinking that it would be better safe than sorry. I apologize if I offended you.
 
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@Telamon could you answer my question from a previous post? What happens to the action slots we lose? Do factions act without our input depending on the system of government we pick? If we pick the Council we will discover that a guild's decided to start clear cutting a forest without our approval?
 
@Telamon could you answer my question from a previous post? What happens to the action slots we lose? Do factions act without our input depending on the system of government we pick? If we pick the Council we will discover that a guild's decided to start clear cutting a forest without our approval?
I think this may be relevant? Asked a similar question earlier.
You personally will be doing things, and with the various governments will have less time to do them personally, but the more open your government is, the more things may be offloaded into others in the future. TL;DR: It evens out, especially with increased hero generation for Makatha — Heroes may take actions even when the action count doesn't allow for it — I.E, 3 votes and 5 heroes, that's still five actions.
 
Question @Telamon would we be able to shift/evolve our position over time, from Kings of Men, to Men of the West.

Because I don't really think we can choose the latter right now, due to how much it will cause trouble with our folk. Would we be able to pursue means of changing the publics minds towards the worth of the middlemen over time?


Also from what you mentioned before about the gift coming more from heart rather than blood. I agree, though to a degree, as we know from Aragon and the northern dunedain, they had far longer lifespans than the gondorians. Though that could primarily be because they were more worthy/humble, compared to the arrogance/pride displayed by Gondor.
 
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The worrying thing is that with the Hall and Makata if we disagree with what the people want they are much angrier than if we did a council which I should point out is how Numenor was governed along with Gondor and Arnor. Not just the bad Kings to it was Elros brother of Elrond who started the tradition. Addtionally the lost of actions worry me.
On another note it is my opinion that peaceful conquest and vassalization is required. However, I am not advocating forcing them to adopt our ways. I simply wish to assist the middle men develop, grow and learn more than hiding in the dark, killing orcs, and running from Sauron as nomadic tribes who live in temporary settlements of wood and grass. (If this is assuming things and not all middle men live like this please correct me. This is the idea I get from the interaction we have had with them so far.)
 
Lore: On The Houses Of Learning
On The Houses Of Learning

"But the fear of death grew ever darker upon them, and they delayed it by all means that they could; and they began to build great houses for their dead, while their wise men laboured unceasingly to discover if they might the secret of recalling life, or at the least of the prolonging of Men's days."


Of all the houses of lore in the world, none are so famed or respected as the Houses of Learning in Númenór. The great domed halls hold thousands upon thousands of scrolls, books, tablets, and more, the gathered intellectual wealth of an empire. The elves, the dwarves, the lords over the sea — all aver that there has never before stood (and mayhaps never shall again) such a place of learning in all the world. Beneath the silver spires of the City of the King is gathered the combined knowledge of twenty centuries, where the finest and brightest minds debate and query the problems of millennia. Here are solved in equal measure debilitating sicknesses and ancient formulae, twisting riddles and arcane secrets of old lore. It often said that the answer to every question mankind has ever asked lies within the Houses. Countless thousands of scholars and students toil away within the titanic domes, where the full study of any one topic may take a whole Númenórean lifetime. The wisest among them, men and women at the height of their powers, have joined together into mighty schools of knowledge devoted to uncovering the greatest questions that plague the Númenórean race. These schools are known collectively as the Houses of Learning, after the place of their dwelling, and each House is utterly devoted to a single topic of study. To gain entry to a House is often the culmination of hundreds of years of devoted study — and merely the beginning of a far greater endeavor.

Here are named the most influential and renowned of the Houses, and their fields of study.

  • The House of Life: Devoted to the study of life in all it's forms, the great scholars of the House of Life have delved deep into the mysteries of flesh. They have broken bodies apart down to the bone, and named and recorded each bit and piece and organ. They understand much of sickness and illness, of the functioning of the flesh and the properties of all living things. They seek all and any methods to extend the natural course of flesh: strange treatments of the blood, potions of the skin, and rituals from far-off lands — nothing is taboo, and nothing yet has worked. They grow and tend the great gardens of athleas, the healing plant of the Kings that cures most ailments and wounds of the body. They cooperate with and sometimes vye against the House of Death. Together, they are known as The Houses of Life and Death, most powerful among the schools.
  • The House of Lore: Most learned in the secrets of the Elder Days are the House of Lore, who dig through ancient tombs and sunken ships to recover knowledge long thought lost. Their libraries hold the final record of many things which are now gone from the world, and exist only in paper and memory. Once great in influence, their power has declined in recent centuries, as many on the Blessed Isle look less and less towards the past and more and more to the future.
  • The Charting Houses: Once three houses — the House of Seafaring, the House of Star-Readers, and the House of Waymakers — they have all but joined together into a single entity known as the Charting Houses, though they are often simply called the Mapmakers. They are among the most important of the Houses, for the beating heart of Númenór's empire are her maps that chart the ways over the waves. The Mapmakers are closely tied to the Venturers, as the efforts of the one depends on the efforts of the other, and their scholars often accompany Guild expeditions as a matter of course.
  • The Houses of Craft: The collective term for the half-hundred or so various houses engaged with the various arts of crafting and building. Notable are the House of Swordsmiths, the House of Armorers, the House of Gilders, the House of Farriers, the House of Ringmakers, and the House of Architects. It is from these houses that the Guild of Shapers draws most of it's new initiates, and The Houses of Craft are the largest of the 'collective' houses...save for one:
  • The House of War: Three generations ago, nine hundred and six discrete Houses were joined together into a single body by order of the King: The House of War. Here, men study war in all it's forms: from the engineering of weapons of death, to tactics, strategy, and sea combat, all of which the Númenóreans now count themselves peerless in. Many of Númenór's greatest weapons were first conceived here. A great number of Númenór's finest captains have emerged from the ranks of this House — dealers in death and fire, who have made of conquest an art and murder a science.
  • The House of Tongues: Founded as a study of the various dialects of the Númenórean speech, the scope of the House's studies has grown broadly with the centuries. Here is kept a record and analysis of every language and script encountered by the Númenóreans, of the relations between these various speeches, and of the myriad roots of their words. From the elvish tongues to the dwarven Khuzdul to the lumbering speech of the Ents, every tongue known on Arda is gathered here. The House bears it's own special importance to the empire: those Men who speak languages identified by the House as relatives of the Númenóreans' own are classified as Middle-Men. Those who are outside this linguistic family tree are numbered among the Men of Darkness, for they are not the blood of the Men of the West, and thus served (and must still serve) the Dark Lord.
  • The House of Death: The favored House of the Kings for nearly seven centuries, and undoubtedly the greatest in it's influence across all Númenór's dominions, the House of Death studies what follows the end. Theirs is the noblest and most keenly desired pursuit of all the studies of the Houses: the conquest of death itself, and an end to unlife. Founded by splinters of the House of Life, they have long sought to devise reagents and mixtures which might revive the mind and flesh, return a soul once fled to it's skin, or through some other arcane means cure the curse of death. Owing to the importance of their task, they have an almost limitless remit — valuable chemicals and agents (many of which are worth the ransoms of kings) are sent to them from all across Middle-Earth, and their scholars have free leave to test their mixtures across the breadth of the empire. The House stands apart from the others in the massive Hall of the Dead in Armenelos. There, countless lifeless Númenóreans are embalmed and preserved in the hope that they may be revived once a cure for their 'condition' is found. They have long argued for a royal permit to requisition test subjects, but it has never been necessary — it has become almost tradition for aging Númenóreans to will their corpses to the House in the hope that they will be the first success story in twenty hundred years.
"Yet they achieved only the art of preserving incorrupt the dead flesh of Men, and they filled all the land with silent tombs in which the thought of death was enshrined in the darkness."
 
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I see Numenor in all its glory, depravity and desperate fear of death and I see a less cool Nehekhara. :V

Magic Egyptians over faux Brits.
 
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The House bears it's own special importance to the empire: those speakers of languages identified by the House as relatives of the Númenórean speech are classified as Middle Men. Those who are outside this family tree are numbered among the Men of Darkness, for they are not the blood of the Men of the West, and thus served (and must still serve) the Dark Lord.
Lol numenoreans, linguistic racism.
 
Question @Telamon would we be able to shift/evolve our position over time, from Kings of Men, to Men of the West.

Because I don't really think we can choose the latter right now, due to how much it will cause trouble with our folk. Would we be able to pursue means of changing the publics minds towards the worth of the middlemen over time?


Also from what you mentioned before about the gift coming more from heart rather than blood. I agree, though to a degree, as we know from Aragon and the northern dunedain, they had far longer lifespans than the gondorians. Though that could primarily be because they were more worthy/humble, compared to the arrogance/pride displayed by Gondor.
Almost certainly not, cause that's just not how racism works. Our people are going to actively look for reasons to justify this decision to themselves. If we pick Kings of Men, then they are going to basically inevitably become more and more racist over time to justify their dominance.
You should take into account the fact that there is a minority for Lords of the Sea and Kings over Men as well. This slim minority are the minority of the minority.
A slim minority is like 40%.
The worrying thing is that with the Hall and Makata if we disagree with what the people want they are much angrier than if we did a council which I should point out is how Numenor was governed along with Gondor and Arnor. Not just the bad Kings to it was Elros brother of Elrond who started the tradition. Addtionally the lost of actions worry me.
On another note it is my opinion that peaceful conquest and vassalization is required. However, I am not advocating forcing them to adopt our ways. I simply wish to assist the middle men develop, grow and learn more than hiding in the dark, killing orcs, and running from Sauron as nomadic tribes who live in temporary settlements of wood and grass. (If this is assuming things and not all middle men live like this please correct me. This is the idea I get from the interaction we have had with them so far.)
Oligarchies are basically inevitably going to be shit, even if they don't start out that way. Add in the issue of the influence of the guilds, and I really don't think its a good idea.

We can assist the men of Middle-earth just fine with the Men of the West option.
 
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I simply wish to assist the middle men develop, grow and learn more than hiding in the dark, killing orcs, and running from Sauron as nomadic tribes who live in temporary settlements of wood and grass.
Though I would like to go with Kings of Men and the whole tragedy and challenge of even benevolent imperialism going wrong, I must note that we could teach the Middle Man even with the Man of the West option.
 
Gotta say I like the option of the Hall. It's not the ossified purely guild influence of the council and neither is it the mob mentality of ancient direct democracy. Instead its more of an estates general, which famously did go quite well so long as the kings of the time didn't completely ignore their recommendations when they suggest things that aren't absolutely to the kings liking.

I honestly don't really mind the number of actions we get, I just prefer that system
 
Yeah, representatives are probably optimal, direct democracy does not scale that great with population, and can be extremely bipolar.
And giving guilds political foothold more than necessary is like giving Estates 100+ influence in EU4: you deserve whatever disaster happens to your country if you give internally centralized factions power. :V
 
I am for Men of the West and direct democracy. Usually, SV goes for more centralization of power but doing the opposite of that might make for an interesting quest. More Heroes are also fucking great.

Someone should make an plan which have both *wink wink*
 
The arguments for Men of the West have swayed me.

[] Plan Say no to Oligarchies, oh men of the west!
- [] Men of the West
- [] Makâtha
- [] Begin Construction Project
- [] Encourage Immigration From The Eastern Colonies
- [] Expand the Militia
- [] Forge Arms
- [] Send An Envoy To Rivendell
- [] Send an Envoy to Dol Amroth
- [] The Tyrant in the Tower
--[] Alternate: Do not visit the Middle-Men, but travel to Tharbad instead to question them on the Middle-Men's claims. (Requires Imrazor)
- [] The Misty Mountains
- [] The Land of the Ringmakers
 
Right, so I thought I'd toss my hat into the ring with a Men of the West/Hall of Speakers plan. I've argued for Men of the West earlier, and I think people are kind of sleeping on the Speakers plan: it's more or less a form of representative democracy (rather reminiscent of the Roman system, if I don't miss my mark...), and actually a relatively stable one. It allows various powerful factions in the city to have their voice (insofar as the elite/educated classes are almost universally those who will be selected as Speakers), but also (in the long and medium term, as the Hall of Speakers gains legitimacy and power) chains them to being dependent on the will of the people in general. It's a great long term move!
[] Who needs a Numenorean Man's Burden
- [] Men of the West: The Númenóreans were mortal, once, and their lives were short in the days before the Gift. Many have forgotten that, in their hubris. Once we bled and wept and crawled in the mud, and we were not noble teachers then, or mighty kings, or aloof lords, but men, who suffered as men must. So we are tall now, and our days long, and our eyes bright -- what changes this? Cut our skin, and we bleed as they bleed. You will not come to them as conquerors or masters, but as peers. This is a slim minority position among your people -- a great many of them support it. Should you pick this option, you will treat every group of Middle-Men you meet as peers and equals. The various Middle-Men groups you encounter will be granted entries in the Realms of Middle-Earth tab, and will be mechanically treated as distinct entities.
- [] Hall of Speakers: Rather than an oligarchy of the most powerful, you separate the city into great divisions. Each division shall select from among themselves a Bêthan, a speaker who will represent his people's interests to the Sea-Lord, meeting in a great convocation called the Bêthzadan, the Hall of Speakers. This form of representation first originated in the densely populated cities of the Faithful, where with populations so large it was possible for individual voices to be lost in the fray. Here, every man has a voice through his Speaker. Dealing with them would probably interfere a fair amount with your ability to get things done, and the Hall's power may grow with time. (Reduce the amount of vote options a turn to 7. Each turn, your advisors will inform you to a somewhat accurate level what the people are most interested in seeing done. Your people will be fairly disgruntled if you ignore their opinions. You will have one Speaker for every two hundred people, and for every five Speakers you have, gain a permanent population growth bonus.)
- [] Encourage Immigration From The Middle-Men: Let it be known wide and far that the doors of your city are open to any of the Men of the West who wish to dwell therin. The Middle-Men are unlearned, wild, and hold no love for Númenór, but they may still come in droves.
- [] Expand the Militia: Enlist more volunteers to the defense of the city, should you think it necessary.
- [] Watch the Mountains: Eyes in the crags, voices in the dells, a shadow on the heights. The White Mountains hold a threat that at any moment could spill over all Enedwaith. Plant a guard to watch the Pukel-Paths, and see who comes and who goes by them.
- [] The Walls of Tharbad: Tharbad has stood a thousand years, and it's walls once repelled the forces of the dark lord at the ford of the Gwathlo. Those same walls lie now in ruin, but might be raised again given time and effort. The master of Tharbad has promised great things should his walls be restored to the glory of his fathers' time, and endless friendship besides. (Sends Shapers. All building projects delayed by one turn)
--[] Uriphel
- [] Ironbark:
In the deeps of the Iron Forest dwells an ent, an old thing with old eyes. He is no foe, not yet. But he is no friend of men, you do not think. Not anymore. Break words with him, and see if the strength of oak and yew might be bent in friendship. (requires hero)
-- []
Inzilbeth
-[] Alternate: Do not visit the Middle-Men, but travel to Tharbad instead to question them on the Middle-Men's claims. (Requires Imrazor)
--[] Imrazor
- [] The Men of the White Mountains:
The wildmen who dwell amid the snow-capped peaks of the white mountains to the east are worshipers of the Dark Lord Sauron. They have given their hearts and minds to Mordor, and act as it's servants in all things. But they are not orcs or wolves, but men still, and they might be parlayed with, could you find them and break word with them. Númenór, in her glory, has turned many who toiled in shadow from the whip of their master -- but it may be no easy task. Still, you send an envoy to break words with them.
- [] Investigate the Branded Orcs: You begin to dig into the matter of where these orcs came from, and what, exactly, the strange brand on their head means.
- [] The Orc Hunter: Some men are good at hunting. Some men are very good at hunting. And others hunt a different sort of prey. Perhaps this one is ready for greater responsibility. Hero opportunities are unlocked by successful Hero Events, and may be failed. If successful, they give a new hero character to send on votes and impact the story.

Right, so some thoughts on the plan in general:
First of all (and forgive me for my arrogance), but I'm kind of shocked that more plans don't have The Orc Hunter in them -- heroes are perhaps the most valuable currency in this game (they can, after all, function as both additional actions and as bonuses) (as well as being immensely cool to read about), and here's an action that actually gives us one! In terms of action-efficiency, this absolutely tops the chart.
As for the rest, I'm guided by the thought that we remain in an early -- and thus fragile -- state. Well before lofty dreams of surviving so long we rival Gondor and Arnor -- and even before contacting various far-flung polities that simply don't matter to us right now, we should take care of two things: growth and security.
Our easiest avenue towards growth is, of course, immigration (natural population growth being fairly slow on the time-scales we're concerned with). I chose to encourage immigration from the Middle Men to both reinforce the Men of the West choice (nothing like first-hand experience for it!) and to get this into the culture of the colony 'on the ground floor', so to speak. In terms of other things (the establishment of farms, expansion of the city, etc.), I"m mostly content to wait until the public brings it up as a real issue. Another concern I have is that a growing population (which we do inevitably want!) is going to encroach on the woods, sooner rather than later. Hammering the Ironbark action in search of an accord seems wise, in this light.

Almost all the rest of the actions I've chosen are geared towards security. Mordor -- and the Eye -- is well-known for employing spies and scouts for selecting their targets. To that end, we absolutely have to keep an eye on the local servants of the Eye (the Pukel-men), and catch any trouble/invasions early. I'd also like to get a sense of their martial strength before we run into any mountain invasions (terrible things, those), and I'd doubly like to resolve the Tharbad situation before we commit to any offensive action.
Rebuilding the walls of Tharbad gains us their friendship everlasting, while simultaneously not giving them any additional offensive capabilities -- this wins us an ally and preserves operational flexibility for the factfinding Tharbad mission.
 
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[] Plan Say no to Oligarchies, oh men of the west!
- [] Men of the West
- [] Makâtha
- [] Begin Construction Project
- [] Encourage Immigration From The Eastern Colonies
- [] Expand the Militia
- [] Forge Arms
- [] Send An Envoy To Rivendell
- [] Send an Envoy to Dol Amroth
- [] The Tyrant in the Tower
--[] Alternate: Do not visit the Middle-Men, but travel to Tharbad instead to question them on the Middle-Men's claims. (Requires Imrazor)
- [] The Misty Mountains
- [] The Land of the Ringmakers
 
One last note: let us remember that the greatest heroes of Men -- Beren, Hurin, and even doomed Turin Turambar (who will slay Morgoth at the end of days) needed neither the Valar's blessings nor Numenorean blood. What they had -- and what distinguished their descendants, and granted people like Imrazor such a privileged position -- was the courage to stand against the Shadow, even against seemingly hopeless odds. How can we represent the Edain -- those who chose to flee the Shadow, in ages past -- if we don't allow the Men near us the same opportunity.
Moreover, if we acknowledge that figures like Beren were not, in fact, Numenorean, and accomplished so much more than the average Numenorean (with Numenorean blood etc), aren't we forced to acknowledge that, perhaps, it's not all that important after all.

(Again, semi-in character rant aside, the Middle Men are just that -- Men -- and have as much right to dignity and respect as any Numenorean. It rubs me the wrong way not to acknowledge that.)
 
[X] The Prime Minister
We have our own council, and a representative chosen from among the Bêthan. It is chosen by you every few years from the elected representatives of different parties approved in the House of Speakers. The remaining roles on the board are chosen and dismissed by you personally.
The Prime Minister's main task is to work with the House of Speakers, solve minor problems and present the requests of the people to you.
Bêthan are elected by the people, may belong to a party or not. The party nominates its candidate for prime minister and he can be approved by you from any party.
 
Maybe we shouldn't start rebuilding the Walls before figuring out the truth of the entire thing.
 
I do have some concern that the Makatha will be more susceptible to populism under a charismatic orator. That will become an issue as Sauron's influence spreads and his followers or those open to his ideas show up. If enough people decide that we should start clear cutting the local forests for immediate profit, and we disagree, then our legitimacy and popularity would tank a lot. It may also be difficult to keep up with as our population expands. That is less of an issue if we go with Men of the West, since we won't be annexing surrounding areas into our authority. We don't want to have a democratic metropole surrounding by colonial clients ruled through assimilated local elites. We don't want to speed run the Delian League. Thankfully we likely won't be heading that way.

Though the Hall would be only somewhat less susceptible to corruption. It'd be more difficult for the guild to influence politics if we go with Makatha. They'd need to convince a majority of the city to any single policy, while with the Hall they'd only need to convince X amount at any given time. Guilds and orators will hold influence either way, it'd manifest itself differently depending on the system. The direct line to the people will be very important too, since it'd give us an opportunity to explain ideas and policies to them directly.

The Hall's description says it developed because some cities became too large for direct democracy and individuals got drowned out. In that case the Hall might be the best to establish now, rather than later, and the population to representative ratio is very fair: 1 speaker for every 200 people. Mechanically we also gain a pop growth bonus for every 5 speakers. That's a nice touch but I'm more concerned about the logistics of Makatha vs Hall. The hero bonuses from the latter are nice though.

With that being said, I could go either way with Hall vs Makatha, so long as we do Men of the West. I do think immigration from local men might be useful, but more Numenoreans are also useful. The Middle Men are more neutral, since it doesn't anger either the King's Men or Faithful. It's a sideways step to gain more people and integrate them into our colony at the early day. It could be very useful in that regard, we decide we're equal to Middle Men and then invite them into our city.

Right, so I thought I'd toss my hat into the ring with a Men of the West/Hall of Speakers plan. I've argued for Men of the West earlier, and I think people are kind of sleeping on the Speakers plan: it's more or less a form of representative democracy (rather reminiscent of the Roman system, if I don't miss my mark...), and actually a relatively stable one. It allows various powerful factions in the city to have their voice (insofar as the elite/educated classes are almost universally those who will be selected as Speakers), but also (in the long and medium term, as the Hall of Speakers gains legitimacy and power) chains them to being dependent on the will of the people in general. It's a great long term move!

Right, so some thoughts on the plan in general:
First of all (and forgive me for my arrogance), but I'm kind of shocked that more plans don't have The Orc Hunter in them -- heroes are perhaps the most valuable currency in this game (they can, after all, function as both additional actions and as bonuses) (as well as being immensely cool to read about), and here's an action that actually gives us one! In terms of action-efficiency, this absolutely tops the chart.
As for the rest, I'm guided by the thought that we remain in an early -- and thus fragile -- state. Well before lofty dreams of surviving so long we rival Gondor and Arnor -- and even before contacting various far-flung polities that simply don't matter to us right now, we should take care of two things: growth and security.
Our easiest avenue towards growth is, of course, immigration (natural population growth being fairly slow on the time-scales we're concerned with). I chose to encourage immigration from the Middle Men to both reinforce the Men of the West choice (nothing like first-hand experience for it!) and to get this into the culture of the colony 'on the ground floor', so to speak. In terms of other things (the establishment of farms, expansion of the city, etc.), I"m mostly content to wait until the public brings it up as a real issue. Another concern I have is that a growing population (which we do inevitably want!) is going to encroach on the woods, sooner rather than later. Hammering the Ironbark action in search of an accord seems wise, in this light.

Almost all the rest of the actions I've chosen are geared towards security. Mordor -- and the Eye -- is well-known for employing spies and scouts for selecting their targets. To that end, we absolutely have to keep an eye on the local servants of the Eye (the Pukel-men), and catch any trouble/invasions early. I'd also like to get a sense of their martial strength before we run into any mountain invasions (terrible things, those), and I'd doubly like to resolve the Tharbad situation before we commit to any offensive action.
Rebuilding the walls of Tharbad gains us their friendship everlasting, while simultaneously not giving them any additional offensive capabilities -- this wins us an ally and preserves operational flexibility for the factfinding Tharbad mission.

Lastly, I just think dwarves are neat, and so want to explore Nargil-Dum :).

Do we have enough Heroes for your plan? You have the Sea Strider get men to move here. You send the Shaper Lady to the fort to rebuild its walls. Then you pick three diplomatic options (ent, fort, dwarfs) that each require a hero but we only have one left, namely our Sea Lord, so two options don't have anyone to do them. The Sea Strider isn't necessary for Middle Men immigration, but even if you move her off it that still leaves one option without a hero left to perform it.
 
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I do have some concern that the Makatha will be more susceptible to populism under a charismatic orator. That will become an issue as Sauron's influence spreads and his followers or those open to his ideas show up. If enough people decide that we should start clear cutting the local forests for immediate profit, and we disagree, then our legitimacy and popularity would tank a lot. It may also be difficult to keep up with as our population expands. That is less of an issue if we go with Men of the West, since we won't be annexing surrounding areas into our authority. We don't want to have a democratic metropole surrounding by colonial clients ruled through assimilated local elites. We don't want to speed run the Delian League. Thankfully we likely won't be heading that way.

Though the Hall would be only somewhat less susceptible to corruption. It'd be more difficult for the guild to influence politics if we go with Makatha. They'd need to convince a majority of the city to any single policy, while with the Hall they'd only need to convince X amount at any given time. Guilds and orators will hold influence either way, it'd manifest itself differently depending on the system. The direct line to the people will be very important too, since it'd give us an opportunity to explain ideas and policies to them directly.

The Hall's description says it developed because some cities became too large for direct democracy and individuals got drowned out. In that case the Hall might be the best to establish now, rather than later, and the population to representative ratio is very fair: 1 speaker for every 200 people. Mechanically we also gain a pop growth bonus for every 5 speakers. That's a nice touch but I'm more concerned about the logistics of Makatha vs Hall. The hero bonuses from the latter are nice though.

With that being said, I could go either way with Hall vs Makatha, so long as we do Men of the West. I do think immigration from local men might be useful, but more Numenoreans are also useful. The Middle Men are more neutral, since it doesn't anger either the King's Men or Faithful. It's a sideways step to gain more people and integrate them into our colony at the early day. It could be very useful in that regard, we decide we're equal to Middle Men and then invite them into our city.



Do we have enough Heroes for your plan? You have the Sea Strider get men to move here. You send the Shaper Lady to the fort to rebuild its walls. Then you pick three diplomatic options (ent, fort, dwarfs) that each require a hero but we only have one left, namely our Sea Lord, so two options don't have anyone to do them. The Sea Strider isn't necessary for Middle Men immigration, but even if you move her off it that still leaves one option without a hero left to perform it.
I am the big dumb, thank you. Editing!
 
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