You personally will be doing things, and with the various governments will have less time to do them personally, but the more open your government is, the more things may be offloaded into others in the future. TL;DR: It evens out, especially with increased hero generation for Makatha — Heroes may take actions even when the action count doesn't allow for it — I.E, 3 votes and 5 heroes, that's still five actions.




That is...mostly figurative language, but keep in mind that the Middle Men, according to Hazraban, attacked Tharbad, which, dilapidated though it may be, is a very formidable fortress. The men of Tharbad also have Númenorean weapons and armor, while the Middle Men have...considerably less impressive stuff.

The Enedwaithrim also know how to deal with orcs on their turf, which is considerably different from attacking a stronger and more heavily fortified enemy on theirs. Lastly, orcs are weaker than all men — on average shorter than regular men by a good foot and less intelligent by far, they are most deadly in numbers.
Gotcha gotcha. If you don't mind the follow up question, how well equipped are the orcs? My naive intuition is that insofar as Sauron was a Maia of Aule and Mordor is usually depicted as having a fair bit of industry is that they'd be pretty well equipped relative to the Middle Men, but much worse relative to the Numenoreans. Is that approximately correct?
 
On the attack, sure! But how would the Middle Men have been broken as a polity and people by losing an offensive siege? With walls that high, I'd be shocked at their ability to mount any sort of attack at all, which leaves them... pottering outside the walls? Moreover, even if they did try to force the walls or what have you, most (particularly ancient) armies will break at like a tenth of the army lost. That might lead to a king being deposed, but not the sort of behavior we see in the second half of the update. I think we ought to investigate, esp insofar as I'm 99% certain there's info Tharbad isn't giving us.

Somewhat ninja'd by am but regardless. Presumably, should the middle men be being fully honest. The Numenorians have been waging a geurella campaign for hundreds of years. The current rulers grandad probably thought of it like 400 years ago. And the middlemen just can't do anything against it. The numenorians kill a few dozen/take as slaves. The middle men try to retaliate. Meet said impossible to defeat defences and have to go home. If a tribe of a thousand suffers that each 5 years for 3 - generations...their dead. Plain and simple.

The numenorians are stronger, faster, sneakier and just better in basically every relevant way (save empathy) they can just do that over and over again to tribe after tribe and just win through sheer longevity
 
the truth about the situation at Tharbad lies somewhere between the two extremes we heard. The local middle man do provide food for them and they defend the area form attacks. I think we should investigate more before making a choice to find out who is closer to the truth and if a compromise can be found.
 
the truth about the situation at Tharbad lies somewhere between the two extremes we heard. The local middle man do provide food for them and they defend the area form attacks. I think we should investigate more before making a choice to find out who is closer to the truth and if a compromise can be found.

Yeah, that is likely the truth. Frankly if we end up finding out the truth I wouldn't be surprises if the tower men were taking the slaves and bringing them back to their proto city. Then the wronged tribe shows up and the Numenorians (who up until now were unaware of this happening right under their noses as there's like 100 of them) basically just kill the attackers. So they feel wronged but so do the middle men. Meanwhile the men of proto Tharbad grow wealthy on this new and relatively risk free slave trade.

Edit - I'm gonna drop this now as I feel like I'm getting noisy
 
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Omake: Visitors From The Seas
Omake: Visitors from the seas

Bess darted through the doors of her families abode. "Dear Pa! Dear Pa! A Tall Man's ship has come! Another has come!" The old patriarch of the house, Bran's face lit up at that, as his grandaughter raced into the room, the empty rocking chair of dear Millie seating her easily.

"Tell us dear, of the Tall Men then Bess." He chuckled, the horns of the Great Tower now roaring to herald the sealord ship. "Tis, that lady Sealord from before Grandpapa." She shook with excitement. "In all the finest silks I've ever seen. Do you think more will come?"

Bran had no answer to that, their family had lived behind the walls of 'The tower', for near 7 generations now, working first as farmers, and then later under good Lord Algadar, as farriers and occassional smiths for 'The Lords' guard. Few men could say that they had held sealords steel, let alone met 'the lord' himself on occasion, but it made them no more prouder than to serve the lord and keep the peace. Had to really with all them savage folk about, his pa's old man may have claimed they were blood, but all he saw of them were savages rollin in dirt.

"Dunno lass. Word from the markets say that the Sea Lords have made another haven to the south..." He said after a while. "Though I don' think we seen the last of them yet. " He chuckled at her sudden moodiness. Rubbing her hair. "Good lord 'Hazra's' been wantin them walls fixed since longer than your pa's been alive, an I don't see him passin up that opportunity of a lifetime." He slapped his knees. "Now, of you go, I'm sure your friends 'll be itchen to talk about her." It'd be good for the lord, as the last he saw of him, hadn't look like he'd slept for near a fortnight...


@Telamon here's an omake.
 
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Plan draft:

[] Plan Conventional Wisdom
[] Kings of Men: The Tall Men were not given Middle-Earth. They are not rulers and conquerors and takers of tribute, but friends and teachers and guiding hands. Those who hold this stance believe that it is the duty and the forbearance of the Númenóreans to safeguard and protect the Middle-Men however possible, to raise them up and shelter them from harm until they may take their place in the sun, as the elves sheltered us in older days. This is how the Faithful carry themselves, in their cities such as Pelargir, where they marry the Middle-Men freely. This is a majority position among your people -- you can hardly help but hear them cheer for it in the streets. Should you pick this option, you will be more friendly to the Middle-Men diplomatically, seeking to form deals, educate, and peacefully vassalize.
[] Council of the Sea-Lord: You form a representative Council drawn from the most influential factions in the city, to advise you on the people's feelings towards your actions and to serve as capable functionaries. Once the Guilds begin to burrow their tendrils into this city, as they do all cities, they will certainly like this familiar system -- it is how Númenór is governed, though at some point along the way 'influential factions' came to mean 'The Guilds, and the Guilds alone'. Dealing with them would likely interfere somewhat with your ability to get things done, and the Council's power may grow with time. (Reduce the amount of vote options a turn to 8. Each turn, your advisors will inform you to a vague level what the people are most interested in seeing done. Your people will be only slightly disgruntled if you ignore their opinions. Councilors may attempt to increase the influence of their faction through...unsavory means.)
[] Begin Construction Project:
Ûrîphêl and the Shapers have many plans for unique buildings and expansion projects that could dot the city. Hear them out and pick one.
[] Encourage Immigration From The Eastern Colonies: You encourage the wise and well-read Faithful to make their way from the eastern colonies to dwell in your city. Your proximity to the Elf-realms makes this easier, but being known as an open Elf-Friend would help matters further.
[] Expand the Militia: Enlist more volunteers to the defense of the city, should you think it necessary.
[] Forge Arms: With basic forges complete, you may begin forging blades and weapons to arm your people. With no source of iron presently, you will have to use inferior bog iron -- but a sword is better than no sword.
[] Watch the Mountains: Eyes in the crags, voices in the dells, a shadow on the heights. The White Mountains hold a threat that at any moment could spill over all Enedwaith. Plant a guard to watch the Pukel-Paths, and see who comes and who goes by them.
[] Send An Envoy To Lindon: Far to the north, beyond the Blue Mountains, lies the Elvish realm of Lindon, the mightiest realm between the mountains and the sea. Here rules undying Gil-Galad, the High King of whom the songs are sung and the greatest of all the elven-lords of Middle-Earth. Though their might has dwindled much since they warred with Sauron, the northern Elves are still great in strength and skill, a fading echo of the glory of Elder Days.
[] Send an Envoy to Dol Amroth: The sister-settlements of Dol Amroth and Edhellond lie far to the southeast in the Bay of Belfalas beyond the Anduin. Populated by both men and elves, the greatest power in these lands are the Lord and Lady of Edhellond, the Elf-prince Celeborn and his wife, the Elf-Lady Galadriel. Belfalas is a rich land and a good land, packed thick with food and fair things, and establishing a relationship with it's masters might benefit your city.
The Tyrant in the Tower: The chieftain of the Middle-Men spins a tale of woe and horror. He speaks of tribes butchered and enslaved, of the lands north and south of the River Gwathlo bent in servitude to the fortress on the ford, to the Tyrant in the Tower. It is, to hear them tell it, a tyranny of centuries, one which has nearly reached it's grim conclusion. The Enedwaithrim of Brun Gledd throw themselves at your feet for aid. They, they claim, are the last of their people who breathe free air. Some among your advisors insist that the truth of this matter must be investigated, while others dismiss it as the ravings of Middle-Men -- or, worse yet, a lie of the Enemy. You must visit Brun Gledd, and learn the truth of it yourself. (Requires Imrazor)
-[] Alternate:
Do not visit the Middle-Men, but travel to Tharbad instead to question them on the Middle-Men's claims. (Requires Imrazor)
[] The Misty Mountains: The Misty Mountains which straddle the spine of Eriador are some of the tallest mountains in Middle-Earth. From the great outposts of the dwarves to the deep caves of the goblin-kings, there are many secrets to be found amid the snowy peaks. You send men into the high mountains to explore and map them further. (2/6)
[] The Land of the Ringmakers:
Eregion, to your north, was once one of the great Elvish realms until it's destruction by the Dark Lord in the War of the Elves and Sauron long ago. Here dwelt the elf-smiths whom the Enemy tricked into creating the Rings of Power, and amid the ruins of their halls and cities lie ancient artifacts from the glory days of the Elves. You send explorers and riders into this land to map it further. (2/6)


Since the Tharbad walls option would delay any constructing projects anyway, I think picking the full-on harbour option now would be unwise (especially since the Venturers are still mad at us). On the other hand, I am very much interested in other, smaller-scale construction projects - at least, to take a look at them - especially if they are going to help us attrack more colonists.
Speaking of which, sending envoys where we are sending them might convince the Faithful that we are at least Elf-Friend-adjacent, and thus a good option for immigration.
 
If we are sending envoys anywhere, I would prefer to send one to Imladris. House of lore and trade will probably know the local situation best of all and be fairly unbiased, so we might find some more information on the whole Tharbad situation. More than that, Elrond is still exempt from the dislike of elves so popular among many in Numenor, so establishing a solid relationship with him wouldn't hurt our reputation with them much.
 
Excellent chapter. I love Numenor and the Silmarllion and this quest gives me both in abundance. I like the plan Convential wisdom after all we would want to be seen as Kings not tyrants. We aspire not to emulate our peers but our forefathers. Those such as Elros and Earendil or Beor and Barahir, great lords and elf friends all. While this might put us in conflict with the growing majority of King's Men in Numneor we should take care to remember that this is Middle-Earth and that in the North especially near Eriador there are few colonies and most that are here are of the faithful. Thus I believe that by extending a hand to other such as elves or dwarves is of greater benefit that angering them.
 
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Opportunity Unlocked:
The Walls of Tharbad:
Tharbad has stood a thousand years, and it's walls once repelled the forces of the dark lord at the ford of the Gwathlo. Those same walls lie now in ruin, but might be raised again given time and effort. The master of Tharbad has promised great things should his walls be restored to the glory of his fathers' time, and endless friendship besides.
Oooh, this is pretty cool. That seems like a Numenorean thing for Tharbad's garrison to do. I can't imagine that it was pretty at first, but it seems to have worked o-

Diplomatic Opportunity Unlocked:
The Tyrant in the Tower:
The chieftain of the Middle-Men spins a tale of woe and horror. He speaks of tribes butchered and enslaved, of the lands north and south of the River Gwathlo bent in servitude to the fortress on the ford, to the Tyrant in the Tower. It is, to hear them tell it, a tyranny of centuries, one which has nearly reached it's grim conclusion. The Enedwaithrim of Brun Gledd throw themselves at your feet for aid. They, they claim, are the last of their people who breathe free air. Some among your advisors insist that the truth of this matter must be investigated, while others dismiss it as the ravings of Middle-Men -- or, worse yet, a lie of the Enemy.
Hrm, maybe not. I wonder if Tharbad has done stuff with Lond Daer as well? I suspect that both tales are true, just told from different perspectives. Numenorean pride would probably have the population supporting Tharbad.

I think we should poke around Lond Daer and Enedwaith more to get more details.

Exploration Location Found:

Nargil-Dûm:
A manse in the wilderness, built by the elves in better days for their friend Thain, a son of Durin III and a prince of the Dwarves of Khazad-Dum. Overgrown and dilapidated, it stands still imposing in the wild, a memory of a finer time. The dwarf-hall's doors were sealed, and, as far as your explorers can tell, have not been opened in a thousand years.
Nelchrost: An outpost nestled in the spine of the Misty Mountains, Nelchrost was a great dwelling of the dwarves in the days before the making of the Ring. When war came to Eregion, it became a formidable redoubt against the power of the Shadow, from which the Dwarves and their friends struck against the Dark Lord. The fortress lies empty, but who knows what remains in the tunnels the dwarves delved below?
Cool, shinies! I like and want shinies.

Diplomacy Opportunity Unlocked:
The Men of the White Mountains:
The wildmen who dwell amid the snow-capped peaks of the white mountains to the east are worshipers of the Dark Lord Sauron. They have given their hearts and minds to Mordor, and act as it's servants in all things. But they are not orcs or wolves, but men still, and they might be parlayed with, could you find them and break word with them. Númenór, in her glory, has turned many who toiled in shadow from the whip of their master -- but it may be no easy task.
Defense Opportunities Unlocked:
The Eye in the Mountains:
Deep inside the white mountains, servants of the Enemy wait and watch. Men, but free and fair no more. Their hearts are turned to cruel things, and their minds to wicked deeds. Drive them out. Drive them back.
Watch the Mountains: Eyes in the crags, voices in the dells, a shadow on the heights. The White Mountains hold a threat that at any moment could spill over all Enedwaith. Plant a guard, to watch the Pukel-Paths.
These results are not surprising from a mediocre roll (62). The Pukel-paths were built by, well, the Druedain. The Druedain do not worship Sauron (well, neither do most men, Sauron only claimed to be Morgoth in the Third Age, in the Second he was a prophet of Morgoth). They have even received immigration from Numenorean Druedain since the reign of, Tar-Minastir I believe. It does not seem that the scouts poked the Cape of Andrast, but rather the mountains between the Blackroot Vale/Lamedon/Lebennin/Lossarnach and Rohan.
 
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So, here's a plan, based off of @DearestAnnabel's plan, but more focused on the men of the Enedwaith.

[] Plan Middle Path
[] Kings of Men: The Tall Men were not given Middle-Earth. They are not rulers and conquerors and takers of tribute, but friends and teachers and guiding hands. Those who hold this stance believe that it is the duty and the forbearance of the Númenóreans to safeguard and protect the Middle-Men however possible, to raise them up and shelter them from harm until they may take their place in the sun, as the elves sheltered us in older days. This is how the Faithful carry themselves, in their cities such as Pelargir, where they marry the Middle-Men freely. This is a majority position among your people -- you can hardly help but hear them cheer for it in the streets. Should you pick this option, you will be more friendly to the Middle-Men diplomatically, seeking to form deals, educate, and peacefully vassalize.
[] Council of the Sea-Lord: You form a representative Council drawn from the most influential factions in the city, to advise you on the people's feelings towards your actions and to serve as capable functionaries. Once the Guilds begin to burrow their tendrils into this city, as they do all cities, they will certainly like this familiar system -- it is how Númenór is governed, though at some point along the way 'influential factions' came to mean 'The Guilds, and the Guilds alone'. Dealing with them would likely interfere somewhat with your ability to get things done, and the Council's power may grow with time. (Reduce the amount of vote options a turn to 8. Each turn, your advisors will inform you to a vague level what the people are most interested in seeing done. Your people will be only slightly disgruntled if you ignore their opinions. Councilors may attempt to increase the influence of their faction through...unsavory means.)
[] Begin Construction Project:
Ûrîphêl and the Shapers have many plans for unique buildings and expansion projects that could dot the city. Hear them out and pick one.
[] Encourage Immigration From The Eastern Colonies: You encourage the wise and well-read Faithful to make their way from the eastern colonies to dwell in your city. Your proximity to the Elf-realms makes this easier, but being known as an open Elf-Friend would help matters further.
[] Expand the Militia: Enlist more volunteers to the defense of the city, should you think it necessary.
[] Watch the Mountains: Eyes in the crags, voices in the dells, a shadow on the heights. The White Mountains hold a threat that at any moment could spill over all Enedwaith. Plant a guard to watch the Pukel-Paths, and see who comes and who goes by them.
[] Forge Arms: With basic forges complete, you may begin forging blades and weapons to arm your people. With no source of iron presently, you will have to use inferior bog iron -- but a sword is better than no sword.
[] Send An Envoy To Lond Daer: Once the mighty harbor of Vinyalonde in days gone by, the port city now known as Lond Daer, sat on the mouth of the river Gwathlo, has declined since it's glory days. It's once-packed harbors are bare, and a dwindling population of mariners and woodsmen eke out a living among it's pillared halls. It is said the men of Lond Daer keep close contact with the elves.
[] Send an Envoy to Dol Amroth: The sister-settlements of Dol Amroth and Edhellond lie far to the southeast in the Bay of Belfalas beyond the Anduin. Populated by both men and elves, the greatest power in these lands are the Lord and Lady of Edhellond, the Elf-prince Celeborn and his wife, the Elf-Lady Galadriel. Belfalas is a rich land and a good land, packed thick with food and fair things, and establishing a relationship with it's masters might benefit your city.
The Tyrant in the Tower: The chieftain of the Middle-Men spins a tale of woe and horror. He speaks of tribes butchered and enslaved, of the lands north and south of the River Gwathlo bent in servitude to the fortress on the ford, to the Tyrant in the Tower. It is, to hear them tell it, a tyranny of centuries, one which has nearly reached it's grim conclusion. The Enedwaithrim of Brun Gledd throw themselves at your feet for aid. They, they claim, are the last of their people who breathe free air. Some among your advisors insist that the truth of this matter must be investigated, while others dismiss it as the ravings of Middle-Men -- or, worse yet, a lie of the Enemy. You must visit Brun Gledd, and learn the truth of it yourself. (Requires Imrazor)
-[] Alternate:
Do not visit the Middle-Men, but travel to Tharbad instead to question them on the Middle-Men's claims. (Requires Imrazor)
[] The Misty Mountains:
The Misty Mountains which straddle the spine of Eriador are some of the tallest mountains in Middle-Earth. From the great outposts of the dwarves to the deep caves of the goblin-kings, there are many secrets to be found amid the snowy peaks. You send men into the high mountains to explore and map them further. (2/6)
[] The Gwathlo: You have made contact with the master of the Gwathlo, and the ford is held, as it has been for ten thousand lifetimes of the small men, by Númenór. If you so wish it, your men may pass beyond the ford, and see how Minhiriath has changed in ten centuries. The men of Tharbad speak of myraid towns and villages, and of civilizations flourishing in the wild. Venture past the Greyflood, and see what has become of these lands.

So, basically it's more focused on our neighbors and it should give us a better idea of what is going on. Is there anything egregiously wrong with the plan? The reason why I want to poke Lond Daer is that they might have a different view of the conflict. While mapping Minhiriath should give us an idea of what Tharbad really does to its neighbors.
 
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I really believ the increased Hero recruitment of the Makata makes it a far better long term choice.

[] Plan Say no to Oligarchies
- [] Kings of Men
- [] Makâtha

- [] Begin Construction Project
- [] Encourage Immigration From The Eastern Colonies
- [] Expand the Militia
- [] Forge Arms
- [] Send An Envoy To Rivendell

- [] Send an Envoy to Dol Amroth
- [] The Tyrant in the Tower
--[] Alternate:
Do not visit the Middle-Men, but travel to Tharbad instead to question them on the Middle-Men's claims. (Requires Imrazor)
- [] The Misty Mountains
- [] The Land of the Ringmakers


Overall similar to DearesAnabel plan but with some changes, changing the sealord council to Makatha, and sending envoys to Rivendell instead of Lindon.
 
So yeah I say we help tharbad and the middle-men with there problems fight and drive off the Sauron worshippers. I also say we take King of Men since that resonates the most with me personally and for giving our people representation I want to go with the second one for the population bonus it'll give us.
 
Forgot to ask - is the restriction to the number of choices (7,8, etc.) depending on our choice of the system of government valid for this turn, or only from the next one onwards?
 
[] Plan sunrise
-[] Kings of Men
-[] Hall of Speakers
-[] Begin Construction Project - Ûrîphêl
-[] Nargil-Dûm - Inzilbeth
-[] Forge Arms
-[] Expand the Militia
-[] Send An Envoy To Rivendell
-[] The Land of the Ringmakers
-[] The Orc Hunter
-[] Contact the Striders
-[] The Tyrant in the Tower - Imrazor

I think the orc hunter is an option we should take that i have not seen in the other plans as it has a chance to give us a hero.
As we plan to sell the maps once they are complete we should send explorers to sites found there before we sell them and focus on completing one map first.
An envoy to Rivendell can teach us a lot about the current state of the elves and he might help with our explorations of Eregion.
As there is a lot to explore lets hire some striders and expand and arm our militia.
 
Just going to toss my hat into the ring and say that I also like the idea of Men of the West. Having said that, I don't think we've got the set up just yet to successfully chase off the Morgath worshippers in the mountains. Well, not to do so and be able to keep them gone and not raiding us without crippling our colony elsewhere.

I do think we definitely want them gone soon, but I'd prefer if we built up the colony more before then so that a major military campaign like chasing them out of the mountains would be doesn't require the full effort of our colony to keep them gone. Remember, right now they seem to be more or less passive though that's not going to last forever. But the moment we make a move on them that changes. So we'd better be ready to wage a war for a while before we go after them.
 
I don't like the idea of the Makata or Men of the west because it makes it harder for us to get things done. It limits our choices per turn, annoys the guilds and makes every chieftain we come across a new faction to deal with. I have nothing against these two ideas and I love the democratic Makata but I see little difference between it and Kings of Men other than it makes it harder for Imarazor to teach guide and rule in middle-earth. I respect all opinions and if Men of the West is what is voted for I will support 100 percent but we need to think about this in terms of middle-earth.
 
I don't like the idea of the Makata or Men of the west because it makes it harder for us to get things done. It limits our choices per turn, annoys the guilds and makes every chieftain we come across a new faction to deal with. I have nothing against these two ideas and I love the democratic Makata but I see little difference between it and Kings of Men other than it makes it harder for Imarazor to teach guide and rule in middle-earth. I respect all opinions and if Men of the West is what is voted for I will support 100 percent but we need to think about this in terms of middle-earth.
The guilds are institutions connected to Numenor and destined to go bad, and if there's less racism towards Middle Men, it would be easier to induct them into our growing foundation given time.

Difference between Kings of Men and Men of the West is that Kings of West is still an inherently racist idea. A seemingly benign form of racism but still racism, no different from the White Man's Burden. Didn't Europeans view it as their God given mission to civilize the savage African and Asians, the lesser peoples of the world?

The Kings of the West Gondorians had Civil wars because they viewed intermingled blood as inferior.

You saw what happened when contact was made with the other Numenorean settlement, they were called slurs because they intermingled blood with non Numenoreans. Declaring complete equality now means less racial tensions much later as newly inducted people won't have to fight for equality later.

Numenor is destined to fall and we planned our character around it falling. So the earlier we start laying the ideological independence from it, the better


Also, Telamon said that becoming Democratic means that Hero units will appear and that they will act outside of the dice limitations. It's a give and take of some events having less direct control but best people suited will handle them
 
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some thing to keep in mind is we are not going to be the only ones influencing people if we go that path I mean we all know how good sauron is at that
 
some thing to keep in mind is we are not going to be the only ones influencing people if we go that path I mean we all know how good sauron is at that
Sauron is interested in Numenor not a tiny colony and the vector he'd use is racism not equality. Fear, jealousy and hatred of the Elves is what he used to corrupt Numenor. Enflamed their already preening ego and growing envy, used it to justify war and attorocity.

Acceptance of Middle Men as equals and that all Humans should be considered so is more deterance than a draw for Sauron.

Weakning Numenorean racism lessens his means of infiltration. There wouldn't be a ingrained sense of xenophobia and otherness that he could use.
 
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