Westernesse: A Númenórean Colony Quest

[agumentic]

[X] Plan Surveying the Land

 

[DarkLight140]

Regardless, I don't think promising to rebuild Tharbad's walls next turn is a reasonable thing to offer up. We have inspectors showing up and explaining to them that we sent all our shapers to a neighboring polity that we vassalized ourselves under is gonna be a hard sell.

In a few turns, maybe, but we haven't even set up our own colony yet. We have a ton of basic infrastructure to build, and we don't even have a native source of wood.

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I think I'd agree with this; offering to repair the walls is reasonable but doing so immediately is somewhat less so. The wall repairs are needed in order to face incoming threats, which as I currently understand it are either Middle Men, who are economically shattered and will take years if not decades to recover enough to be a threat) or Gundabad, which is gathering power and sending scouts but is not making any overt plays right now. Saying something like "we'll do your wall repairs no more than two years following the completion of our super-harbor" isn't a timeline likely to result in wall repairs being delayed to the point that they are impacted by it, so while it makes our offer less favorable to them it's not vastly less so for someone who thinks in the long term- and thinking long term is likely a point of pride for someone whom lifespan is a key mark of superiority over their vassals.

Their situation is more stable than ours and we really need that construction making our trade/manufacturing economy get up and running. A slightly less favorable offer to them will help us a lot and hurt them little.

So for now:
[X] Plan Surveying the Land

 

[Nemomagnus]

[X] Plan Surveying the Land

 

[KaldorDraigo]

[X] Plan Surveying the Land

I trust Tharbad about as much as I'd trust a goblin doctor. I don't like that we're essentially vassalising ourselves and selling our carrots cheaply to a bully. Which in so many words, Tharbad is. Bullying people for money to protect them from other bullies doesn't make it any better.

We also need all the resources we can muster to situate ourselves before we go about throwing carrots at tax avoiding donkeys. Offering up such a powerful trading assets such as the shapers on the onset of negotiations and without a better lay of the land seems foolish, naive and premature to me.

 

[Fission Battery]

I think I'd agree with this; offering to repair the walls is reasonable but doing so immediately is somewhat less so. The wall repairs are needed in order to face incoming threats, which as I currently understand it are either Middle Men, who are economically shattered and will take years if not decades to recover enough to be a threat) or Gundabad, which is gathering power and sending scouts but is not making any overt plays right now. Saying something like "we'll do your wall repairs no more than two years following the completion of our super-harbor" isn't a timeline likely to result in wall repairs being delayed to the point that they are impacted by it, so while it makes our offer less favorable to them it's not vastly less so for someone who thinks in the long term- and thinking long term is likely a point of pride for someone whom lifespan is a key mark of superiority over their vassals.

Their situation is more stable than ours and we really need that construction making our trade/manufacturing economy get up and running. A slightly less favorable offer to them will help us a lot and hurt them little.

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I completely agree. Those are all good points. It'd also quite presumptuous on our part to attempt to broker such am ambitious deal in the same turn that we're meeting with people, some for the first time. Even if the talks go nowhere, it's expending political capital too early and too quickly. It'd make us look incompetent and naïve instead of ambitious and daring. We need a clear picture of the situation in the surrounding lands, and only then should we re-approach the Warden. They know the land more than us, but we have some leverage over him and we aim to get even more.

 

[spiritualatheist]

[X] Plan Surveying the Land

Fuck Tharbad. If we have to deal with him, (and we probably will end up having to, given the threat of the Orcs) it's a terrible idea to do it until we know what kind of situation we're sticking our noses into.

Even if the deal was a good idea, though, we don't have the authority to broker it in the first place.

 

[DkArthas]

Eh, in return for helping him we are getting Military protection, this allows us to focus on our industry and trade instead of doing too much Military shit when we have barely a couple of thousands people.

Honestly, I like this shit because it gives Tharbad a chance to redeem themselve, which is fairly Tolkien-ish? Give them a chance to be less shit, if they fuck it up, we will deal with them, the MC won't forget it.

 

[spiritualatheist]

Eh, in return for helping him we are getting Military protection, this allows us to focus on our industry and trade instead of doing Military shit when we have barely a couple of thousands people.

Honestly, I like this shit because it gives Tharbad a chance to redeem themselve, which is fairly Tolkien-ish?

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There's a difference between redeeming yourself for making a mistake and suddenly changing the entire character of your society because some newcomers that you could roll over if you had to demand it. We have no leverage besides repairing the wall and the nuclear option, and we don't have anywhere near the kind of prestige we'd need to found this kind of alliance; the whole thing is incredibly unrealistic.

 

[agumentic]

I do think we could and should resolve the issue of Tharbad and Middle Men diplomatically, but not right this moment - our arrival is just too recent, and we are barely established. Let's spend a couple of turns building our colony and reputation first, and then, after the inspection and perhaps after we find the signs of orcish activity, we can start diplomatic overtures.

 

[melody-chii]

Honestly really like the idea of the league but I feel like it's too soon? Also I would prefer to keep the walls waiting for another year or so to encourage their cooperation while we finish up our shipyard. After that time, things will likely have settled with the Middle Men and Tharbad and we can use the Walls as a symbol of how great an idea it was. Doing it immediately seems :/

[X] Plan Surveying the Land

 

[Jax]

[X] Plan Laying the Foundations

 

[dermenscha]

Omake: Deep in the Forest

Far away from the eyes of men, dark in the tales of Durin's folk, and bitter in the memories of the Elves, the wreck of Eregion lay mired in pale ruin. The trunks of great trees stood without their green crowns and no flowers took shelter under their boughs. Lesser trees huddled together as soldiers around a campfire, for they would never match the splendor of their ancients. It was a country of scars and silence, only the faint calls of stange birds cutting through the chill air. Not even the cry of the wind rang out in Eregion, for the land itself remembered the horror and betrayal.

A stranger passing through would know discomfort, and dark dreams fell upon all who lingered too long. The sun was dim, even on a summer's day, and warmth faded from thought. A thick mist lay upon the land, and here and there great hills rose up, appearing like islands in a grey sea. Great works of stone were set upon the summits of these hills, and none were whole. The great forges and workshops of the elves were all dark and cold, never to be lit again. Edifices and statues were hewn or torn down, or marked with evil symbols and words of malice and cruelty in the Black Speech.

In the very heart of Eregion, a deep valley sat surrounded by steep cliffs and near-mountains of grey rock, where no life dared dwell and no river ran. Two pairs of great gates still stood at the southern entrance, the walls flanking them long cast down and their doors, portcullises, and bars smashed inwards. Cálennyn, they were once called, the Gates of Light: it was said that Celebrimbor named them such for through them shown the lights of the hundreds of forge-fires within the valley.

The ever-present mist writhed and seethed in the valley, as if unfelt winds marked the motions of armies long dead. The ground was black with the signs of a great and terrible fire, and the carved stone of the road and walls was split and scattered. In the center of the valley, the mist abruptly halted and circled a half-league away from a single tower, split in two down the center. Here, Sauron fell upon Celebrimbor, demanding in all his fury and rage the location of the Three, and tore the secrets of the Seven and Nine from the smith's tongue.

But a little further beyond, past the northern, narrower, unguarded entrance to the valley, past the furthest excursion of the forest and past the quiet streams flowing out of the earth, a small golden band lay under grass and soil, unadorned and unnoticed. Whether deliberately hidden or cast aside in fright, this ring laid quiet during the burning of Eregion, and no evil thing had touched it. Far from a great ring, it was a lesser- a step on the road to greatness, but still a remarkable creation. Deep within Eregion it rested, unnoticed and forgotten.

Eregion, once the forest of crafters and smiths, now was only a place of cold anger.

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New to this quest and saw there weren't many omakes so I thought, why not?

 

[Telamon]

Omake: Deep in the Forest

Far away from the eyes of men, dark in the tales of Durin's folk, and bitter in the memories of the Elves, the wreck of Eregion lay mired in pale ruin. The trunks of great trees stood without their green crowns and no flowers took shelter under their boughs. Lesser trees huddled together as soldiers around a campfire, for they would never match the splendor of their ancients. It was a country of scars and silence, only the faint calls of stange birds cutting through the chill air. Not even the cry of the wind rang out in Eregion, for the land itself remembered the horror and betrayal.

A stranger passing through would know discomfort, and dark dreams fell upon all who lingered too long. The sun was dim, even on a summer's day, and warmth faded from thought. A thick mist lay upon the land, and here and there great hills rose up, appearing like islands in a grey sea. Great works of stone were set upon the summits of these hills, and none were whole. The great forges and workshops of the elves were all dark and cold, never to be lit again. Edifices and statues were hewn or torn down, or marked with evil symbols and words of malice and cruelty in the Black Speech.

In the very heart of Eregion, a deep valley sat surrounded by steep cliffs and near-mountains of grey rock, where no life dared dwell and no river ran. Two pairs of great gates still stood at the southern entrance, the walls flanking them long cast down and their doors, portcullises, and bars smashed inwards. Cálennyn, they were once called, the Gates of Light: it was said that Celebrimbor named them such for through them shown the lights of the hundreds of forge-fires within the valley.

The ever-present mist writhed and seethed in the valley, as if unfelt winds marked the motions of armies long dead. The ground was black with the signs of a great and terrible fire, and the carved stone of the road and walls was split and scattered. In the center of the valley, the mist abruptly halted and circled a half-league away from a single tower, split in two down the center. Here, Sauron fell upon Celebrimbor, demanding in all his fury and rage the location of the Three, and tore the secrets of the Seven and Nine from the smith's tongue.

But a little further beyond, past the northern, narrower, unguarded entrance to the valley, past the furthest excursion of the forest and past the quiet streams flowing out of the earth, a small golden band lay under grass and soil, unadorned and unnoticed. Whether deliberately hidden or cast aside in fright, this ring laid quiet during the burning of Eregion, and no evil thing had touched it. Far from a great ring, it was a lesser- a step on the road to greatness, but still a remarkable creation. Deep within Eregion it rested, unnoticed and forgotten.

Eregion, once the forest of crafters and smiths, now was only a place of cold anger.

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New to this quest and saw there weren't many omakes so I thought, why not?

Click to shrink...

Very nice. The minds and hearts of your people turn towards the Land of the Ringmakers of yore. They wish to pass beyond the gates of Celebrimbor. The next exploration roll in Eregion receives a +10.

Omake: Visitors from the seas

Bess darted through the doors of her families abode. "Dear Pa! Dear Pa! A Tall Man's ship has come! Another has come!" The old patriarch of the house, Bran's face lit up at that, as his grandaughter raced into the room, the empty rocking chair of dear Millie seating her easily.

"Tell us dear, of the Tall Men then Bess." He chuckled, the horns of the Great Tower now roaring to herald the sealord ship. "Tis, that lady Sealord from before Grandpapa." She shook with excitement. "In all the finest silks I've ever seen. Do you think more will come?"

Bran had no answer to that, their family had lived behind the walls of 'The tower', for near 7 generations now, working first as farmers, and then later under good Lord Algadar, as farriers and occassional smiths for 'The Lords' guard. Few men could say that they had held sealords steel, let alone met 'the lord' himself on occasion, but it made them no more prouder than to serve the lord and keep the peace. Had to really with all them savage folk about, his pa's old man may have claimed they were blood, but all he saw of them were savages rollin in dirt.

"Dunno lass. Word from the markets say that the Sea Lords have made another haven to the south..." He said after a while. "Though I don' think we seen the last of them yet. " He chuckled at her sudden moodiness. Rubbing her hair. "Good lord 'Hazra's' been wantin them walls fixed since longer than your pa's been alive, an I don't see him passin up that opportunity of a lifetime." He slapped his knees. "Now, of you go, I'm sure your friends 'll be itchen to talk about her." It'd be good for the lord, as the last he saw of him, hadn't look like he'd slept for near a fortnight...


@Telamon here's an omake.

Click to shrink...

Very nice. Meant to get around to this earlier, but...The Baradhrim whisper and marvel to see the tall men come again. No uncles or cousins in timeworn armor are these, but the Kings of Men from over the sea, and the light of their eyes is the light of the bright stars. Get +20 to your next interaction with the Baradhrim (Not the Tower Garrison, specifically the Middle-Men who dwell around the tower).

 

[Bladesguy]

[X] Plan Surveying the Land

 

[Arhin]

Plan "Laying the Foundations" is indeed idealistical and over-ambitious. This is not nessesary bad, because Arda is idealistical setting. But I am wary about it. If I've written this quest, this would be succeed only in the case of strong/critical success. Of cause Telamon could see situation otherwise, it is his right as author. But I shall not change my vote. I should prefer to gather some information and only then to decide.

By the way.

Hazrabân falls into silence. In the quiet that follows, he runs a hand over the painted table. A featureless golden ring glints on his finger.

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But in recent years orcs bearing the black brand have been seen further and further afield, and now it seems they have passed beyond the Ford by some secret means

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Possibility is very low, but it is possible that we have been interacted with future nazgûl .

 

[DkArthas]

Eh, if this doesn't work, we can try for an lesser settlement as the plan states, getting both Tharbad and middle man dude in the same room is already progress. We already know enough about this situation, it's time to stop being indecisive and strike.

That possible lesser settlement might grow into an league later or something.

Edit: Though, I would prefer that we explictly try to make sure that Longbeard neighbour humans are well off. But the MC may be opportunistic enough to do it on his own initiative.

 

[Murazor]

Possibility is very low, but it is possible that we have been interacted with future nazgûl .

Click to shrink...

If I remember my facts correctly, the One Ring is unique in being a plain band of gold out of all the Rings of Power and the rest (the Three, the Seven, the Nine) all have one jewel of some kind, so a featureless golden ring shouldn't be one of the Nine.

Aside from this, the Nazgul are supposed to have been active for several hundred years at this point.

It is not impossible, however, for that golden ring to be one of the lesser rings. There are supposed to have been many of the things at one point, this is well over three thousand years before the War of the Ring and Tharbad is sufficiently close to Eregion that an enterprising treasure hunter may have uncovered some gizmos.

 

[Telamon]

Of The Rings Of Power

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
And one for the Dark Lord on his dark throne.​

In the early centuries of the Second Age, the Dark Lord Sauron tricked the Elf-Smiths of Eregion into forging nineteen rings of unmatched power. He came to them in fair disguise as a teacher and a helper and friend, and under his tutelage first nine, then seven, then three rings they made, wrought with the deep old magic of the world that does not fade. But the elves were betrayed. In secret their Enemy made another, final ring, which would be master over all the others: the One Ring, called in later days the Ruling Ring. Taken altogether, these twenty bands were the Rings of Power, which brought great suffering to the world after their making.

Here are named these twenty, and their histories insofar as they are known to the Men of Numenor.

• The Three, or the Elven Rings. Forged by the hand of Celebrimbor, the greatest smith of the Second Age, and Lord of Eregion before his dying. They were made without the knowledge of the Enemy, and do not corrupt or manipulate as the others do, though the One Ring permits him to look unseen upon their bearers from afar. They grant their wearers great power to resist evil and the passing of time, for they were made to preserve and protect. Their names are Narya, Vilya, and Nenya, and all three are kept close by mighty lords of the Elves. Nenya, the Ring of Water, is held in the guardianship of the Elf-Lady Galadriel. Narya, the Ring of Fire, was given to the safekeeping of the High King Gil-Galad, and entrusted by him in later times to his steward, the Elf-lord Cirdan. The strongest of the Three, Vilya, the Ring of Air, was given by Gil-Galad to his herald and chief servant, the Elf-Lord Elrond.
• The Seven, or the Rings of the Dwarves, which are called also the Rings of Earth. At first hidden by Celebrimbor, he surrendered them to Sauron after torture, and the Dark Lord later gave them one by one to the seven chieftains of the Dwarven clans. Those who wear them came to possess wealth and splendor unrivaled, building for themselves mighty hoards under the earth. The dwarves are as stubborn as the stone from which they come, and thus their rings cannot twist them into Sauron's service -- however, they guide their wearers imperceptibly towards greed and ruin, as surely as stone is sanded by the sea. These Rings bear the names of the chieftains who bear them. Foremost of their number is the Ring of Durin, first borne by the greatest of all the Dwarf-Lords, Durin III of Khazad-Dum, and held after his passing by his heirs, who are kings under the mountains. It is said that also in their possession is the Ring of Bror, given once to the Broadbeam Dwarves, though it is not known how it came to be in their grasp. In the Blue Mountains, the Firebeard Dwarves hold the Ring of Uri, a great lord of their dwindling house, who slew two dragons in the dawn of the Age, and built their bones into his hall. Of the eastern dwarf-Houses and their rings, the fate of only one is known: the Ring of Rhaz, a king of the Ironfoot Dwarves, who it is said delved a mighty hall to rival Khazad-Dum deep in the Red Mountains far to the east.
• The Nine, or the Rings of Men, called also the Black Rings, the most well-known of all the Rings made by Celebrimbor, whose fate has been recorded the most thoroughly of all. Nine Rings Sauron gave in darker days to nine kings and princes of the race of Men. These Rings, of the nineteen made in Eregion, were the only ones who fulfilled utterly the wicked purpose for which they were made. They wormed their way into the hearts of men, brought down empires and kingdoms, and created for Sauron nine awful servants who would be his heralds and his captains forever after -- those Ringwraiths of whom much is written, the Nazgul that are forever undying, who ride on steeds of shadow and speak with voices of death. The Nine Rings glimmer on their fingers, the most ruinous and seductive of all the works and arts of Sauron...save one.
• The One, the Ruling Ring, the Ring of Power, the Master Ring -- the last ring, and the greatest. Forged in secret by the Dark Lord in Mount Doom to rule all other Rings, it is one of the mightiest artifacts ever created in Arda. It bears bound in itself the greater part of the spirit and will of it's maker, a piece of his hatred and malignancy made solid and real, and it amplifies his strength tenfold, making him a force unrivaled among the powers of Middle-Earth. The Ruling Ring permits it's Master to see and surveil unawares the bearers of the other Rings, to exert his influence over them, and to have mastery over their souls and destinies unto the end of days. While the One is with him, the Dark Lord cannot fall to mortal arms, and all the armies of all the world could not hope to stand against him. Even now it burns bright on his finger where he sits ruling on his dark throne in the land of Mordor, where the shadows lie.
• The Lesser Rings, though not numbered or counted, are those rings made as essays in ring-craft by the smiths of Eregion, to prepare for the making of the greater Rings. They have minor powers of their own, making their bearers faster, stronger, or wiser, though not all three, and never to the same degree as the greater Rings might. The Lesser Rings are unadorned, bearing no jewel or gilt, and after the fall of Eregion, were lost and scattered across Middle-Earth. Some rest even now upon the fingers of mighty Numenorean lords, or in the vaults of the dwarves, or around the necks of Haradrim chieftains. Each and every one of them, from lesser to least, is still (even if dimly so) under the power of the One, though they cannot fully bend a wearer into it's service as their cousins might. Their influence is more subtle still -- an inopportune moment of rage, an uncharacteristic twist of jealously, a loss of empathy at a moment when it might have been most needed.

All of the great Rings have certain shared powers. Uniformly, they unnaturally extend the lives of their bearers and amplify their natural strengths and powers beyond imagination. A great speaker will find that his voice is now immeasurably seductive, while a skilled warrior will become a warlord without equal in the world. All mortals who bear the Rings are stronger, faster, haler, greater in flesh and form and spirit than ever before. So long as they wear their Ring, they will never die, though they may become worse than death. All the Rings, but especially those under Sauron's power, pierce the thin veil between this world and the Unseen world of wraiths, allowing the bearers to perceive ghosts, to turn invisible by shifting their flesh into the spirit world, and to exert varying forms of control over dead and unseen things. The Rings have wants and wills of their own, being capable of impelling their bearers to protect and shelter them, and of inspiring ring-lust or even obsession in the weaker-minded. Despite their properties, it is said the elves do not wear the Three save in the most dire circumstance, for all the Rings of Power, no matter their making, are under the dominion and the desire of him who is master of the One and Lord of the Rings.

Click to shrink...

 

[Meep]

[X] Plan Surveying the Land

 

[Murazor]

Some rest even now upon the fingers of mighty Numenorean lords, or in the vaults of the dwarves, or around the necks of Haradrim chieftains. Each and every one of them, from lesser to least, is still (even if dimly so) under the power of the One, though they cannot fully bend a wearer into it's service as their cousins might. Their influence is more subtle still -- an inopportune moment of rage, an uncharacteristic twist of jealously, a loss of empathy at a moment when it might have been most needed.

Well.

Nothing suspicious to see here.

Okay, so the Tharbad garrison (or at least its leader) seems to have simultaneously adequacy issues in terms of blood purity, a lot of pride invested in the "glorious" history of the fortress and a lot of fear of both potential royal attention and the middle men their raiding have turned into a hostile force.

That's some very fertile ground for Sauron's potential corruptive shenanigans and if the hypothetical lesser ring happens to be a family heirloom (spoils from Sauron's defeat at Tharbad) or the symbol of the master of the tower or anything like that. It would go some way towards explaining the current state of affairs, even beyond Numenorean colonizers being dicks.

 

[ctulhuslp]

Oooh, right, in a time period with Sauron still having One Ring all lesser rings are a potential source of Problems. Didn't consider this at all lol.

 

[DkArthas]

Eh, it's possible he has an lesser ring. But let's not let paranoia control us. That might cause problems too.

 

[ctulhuslp]

Eh, it's possible he has an lesser ring. But let's not let paranoia control us. That might cause problems too.

Click to shrink...

True, it could just be a random heirloom too.
He's still a problematic ally to have, and we will have to figure out a way to reconcile the entire circus sooner rather than later.

Going full League might be too ambitious, but, well, we probably will actually go for it eventually? Mostly because I don't really see a better option. So question's mostly of when, I suppose.

 

[Strange9]

[X] Plan Laying the Foundations
I don't ultimately see routes to resolving Tharbad on decent terms that don't amount to something similar.

 

[ShyPerson]

Since the time of the original Durin walked alone and named what he encountered were referenced by Var, I thought this might be relevant: