I think The Tower is willing to relent provided a viable alternative can be brokered. I am not sure that Tharbad is absolutely committed to the policy.
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Westernesse: A Númenórean Colony Quest
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
I think The Tower is willing to relent provided a viable alternative can be brokered. I am not sure that Tharbad is absolutely committed to the policy.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oooh, the marine-craft of the Numenoreans, to see it in action is most pleasing.
That's going to necessarily involve violence, see basically every other revolution in history. The Tower's system is fundamentally imposed by pure, naked force, and works incredibly well for the Numenoreans at the top. You're never going to get them to support reform without force, because by necessity it will cut into their profit margins and incredible social privileges.
Dude is an racist profiting immensely from suffering. He isn't pursuing this policy because he has to, he's doing it because it works to his advantage. Fuck Tharbad.
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- Him/He
I understand the emotion to a degree but, with all due respect, I do have to ask: what are we supposed to then?
You said yourself that getting the home island involved was a bad idea and that we wouldn't win a war with Tharbad. Keeping the current situation going simply mean more encroachment on the Enedwaithen.
Realistically we don't have the means to do better then the deal as it is proposed to us and that is assuming the people currently under Tharbad would even want it aniway. That they joined the politie, for lack of a better term, that Tharbad built unwillingly doesn't guarantee that their current inclusion in is unwilling and, as you said yourself, we don't know what they are thinking. For all we know they might just look at the Commander and his lieutenants as equivalents to aristocrats most of Middle-Earth currently live under without much fuss, even if they don't fit modern sensibilities, mine included.
I do agree we shouldn't believe him at his word but what we have seen doesn't contradict what he said, his story his damning enough for him and Tharbad to be unwise as a lie and the fact we are Numenoreans ourselves does increase the odd he is telling the truth here so I wouldn't dismiss it either.
As for what the Enedwaithen would think I would expect them to be happy to at least some degree, as our diplomacy would have saved them from conquest.
That is both withewashing us and darkening Tharbad perhaps more then would be warranted. Our Men of the West outlook is probably due to circumstances more then anything else in-universe and we cannonically have part of our own people being rascist against the Men of Tharbad for being of mixed descent themselves.
As to Tharbad's conduct, obviously you have an ethnically distinct elite rulling over the place and that is distatefull to say the least. Moreover, it is clear that great crimes were commited in building Tharbad as a politie. In the present, however, I feel it is worth mentionning that we don't have anything to indicate that the people currently under Tharbad are more opressed then those under your bog standard Feudal monarchies who rule over most of Arda and that the wealth taken does, at the very least, stay in the region.
This isn't Leopold's Congo or even the British Raj, the situation is more akin to what China had under the Manchu Dynasty or something along those lines.
Mind you, this is by no means good, very far from it, but it is still far less bad then many other entities around us are so better to keep our focus on them and take the deal that realistically achieve what we can achieve IMO.
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There is also the consequences of what happens if Tharbad refuses to come to terms. They have eight hundred numenorians soldiers armed with the most modern (If somewhat dilapidated) equipment Numenor has.
We have been offered hush money, this is true. But all the land south of the Gwoltho and North of the Isen is a vast amount of territory which is now effectively protected from Tharbad. This we get without a fight.
If however, he refuses to adjust his policy (due to a low roll) the only way he would be able to ensure our silence is threatening, or actually conducting open war. A war we would lose, at least without appealing to the Eldar or the king. One of which is VERY uncertain, while the other is something we definately don't want to do. As he'll likely replace Tharbad with a new ruler, likely a new garrison. And orders to continue the tribute but pay the king his due.
Accepting the deal as it stands today doesn't lock our policy in for all time. But it is the surest way to have some good be definately done at all
We have been offered hush money, this is true. But all the land south of the Gwoltho and North of the Isen is a vast amount of territory which is now effectively protected from Tharbad. This we get without a fight.
If however, he refuses to adjust his policy (due to a low roll) the only way he would be able to ensure our silence is threatening, or actually conducting open war. A war we would lose, at least without appealing to the Eldar or the king. One of which is VERY uncertain, while the other is something we definately don't want to do. As he'll likely replace Tharbad with a new ruler, likely a new garrison. And orders to continue the tribute but pay the king his due.
Accepting the deal as it stands today doesn't lock our policy in for all time. But it is the surest way to have some good be definately done at all
- Location
- Sleeping Somewhere
Haven't really talked in this thread before, but I might as well throw my own thoughts in on all this while I'm here. When it comes to the dwarves, I'd much prefer siding with the Blacklocks over Durin's Folk. Not only do we have exactly what they need to win their fight, but we would earn a lifelong ally in doing so. I don't think it would be worth the effort to win Durin's Folk over to our side.
As for Tharbad, I think our best bet is to take his offer. While it's certainly not a prefect solution, I do think it's the best one available to us. We do not want to get the king involved any further then he is, and I don't think we will get very far trying to negotiate a better solution.
As for Tharbad, I think our best bet is to take his offer. While it's certainly not a prefect solution, I do think it's the best one available to us. We do not want to get the king involved any further then he is, and I don't think we will get very far trying to negotiate a better solution.
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- Him/He
I'd only call on Eldars to fight Numenoreans at our side if we have no other choice and it is a question of life or death for us. Even at this stage of Numenor's fall I simply can't see how it wouldn't have disastrous consequences for us!
Oh I'd certainly prefer to call the Eldar to our side, but would they say yes? They have no real reason to interfere in what they likely see as (and realistically is) internal Numenorean politics. They at least I imagine, wouldnt stay, preferring to go home after the battle. They would definitely want to avoid angering Numenor however, so its likely a moot point.
Edit - misread your statement
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- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- Him/He
Indeed, my point was simply that, even if we end up with the option, before we push that button we need to think on things long and hard as there will be important consequences if we do it. Make no mistake, for the King's Men we would be traitors to take down if we do that.
Short of embracing the Darkness fully we will pish them off, that is unavoidable, but I'd rather keep that moment as late as possible.
Strange9
hdellaverson@gmail.com
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
On a slightly different note, how much support is there for starting shipbuilding soon?
We purchased the Shipwright perk at immense expense during chargen -- we should, by all rights, make good use of it. Part of that is not only the construction of ships, but also the infrastructure and institutional knowledge to build more once the Shipwright himself passes from Arda. Our best bet to get that is to build many ships (and in so doing inevitably spread knowledge of their construction from just one old man).
We purchased the Shipwright perk at immense expense during chargen -- we should, by all rights, make good use of it. Part of that is not only the construction of ships, but also the infrastructure and institutional knowledge to build more once the Shipwright himself passes from Arda. Our best bet to get that is to build many ships (and in so doing inevitably spread knowledge of their construction from just one old man).
The granary is a sort of mini-project that takes only 2 turns - we'd be able to build a shipyard after it's finished.
Kir the Wizard
The Sun King
- Location
- Ukraine
Love to see the Gundaboys independent, but who could that new Power be? Early Angmar Start? It wasn't supposed to happen for centuries, but the Nazgul are around, I suppose? A balrog? Some boldog orc chief of old that managed to get some artifacts? Honestly, eager to see this plot thread, non-Sauron dark rulers is often an interesting topic.
We should not involve the King at all, but I don't think we should accept the deal initially. Rule one as a minor power is never call in a bigger fish into your affairs. The last thing we want is the King's attention in this part of the world. If Tharbad's been forgotten about, good, we should keep it that way. We do however have the Warden by the balls, so to speak. The question is how much we want to squeeze. To that end we should not accept the deal until after we survey Enedwaith. We need to know what he's saying is our because for all we know it might be sparsely inhabited, so he can keep control over the locals without much changing. Never buy property without seeing the site for yourself.
We should also speak to Brun Gledd, the local men of the area, get their side of the story and include them on the process. I don't think the Warden of Tharbad is evil, simply inherited an unjust system he hasn't changed. He's of mixed ancestry and perhaps could be open to diplomacy with the locals if we open the door, possibly. We picked Men of the West, so they should be included in their own affairs. We can't just agree to divvy up their lands without their knowledge of consent. Tharbad has no right to give us anything because they have no right to any of it. We should also survey the lands of Gwathlo to see how Tharbad rules outside its immediate walls.
That's why we must survey the Enedwaith, conduct diplomacy with Brun Gledd, and explore the Gwathlo. I feel like that will give us better insight into the situation and possibly open up new options. We picked Men of the West and I feel that this is the most pressing concern facing our colony. It's a three pronged goal to gain information, and thus leverage, over the Warden of Tharbad, that way we can negotiate a better settlement. There's an enormous amount of synergy in these options, so reject deal and gain information, then we re-approach him.
On the matter of dwarfs I could go either way. We don't want to side with one over the other at the moment, and the Gate Captain's request was fairly reasonable. We already want to ease the burden on the locals. We want knowledge, trade, and allies. The Blacklocks wander, so they might move off if they get what they came for, which would be bad for us. The last thing we want is to get into a war with dwarfs.
The Shaping Hall is attractive. It grows their influence, but would potentially allow us to work multiple projects at once. That'd be huge. It'd allow faster growth. I do want that Lore-Hall, eventually, since we want to build up the knowledge of Numenor in preparation of the fall. The granary or pasture both sound good to me, honestly.
We should speak with Ironbark if we want to make ships. We need wood and we don't want an angry ent attacking us because we clear cut the entire region. I wouldn't want to start construction on the shipyard until we know we got Ironbark's approval, otherwise war with the forest itself. That's something we don't want. The Wide Woods options mentions there being another steward, one with bright eyes, so possibly more ents to deal with. That's why I think no shipyard until after we deal with the ents. It's a secondary issue to the matters of the locals however.
We should also speak to Brun Gledd, the local men of the area, get their side of the story and include them on the process. I don't think the Warden of Tharbad is evil, simply inherited an unjust system he hasn't changed. He's of mixed ancestry and perhaps could be open to diplomacy with the locals if we open the door, possibly. We picked Men of the West, so they should be included in their own affairs. We can't just agree to divvy up their lands without their knowledge of consent. Tharbad has no right to give us anything because they have no right to any of it. We should also survey the lands of Gwathlo to see how Tharbad rules outside its immediate walls.
That's why we must survey the Enedwaith, conduct diplomacy with Brun Gledd, and explore the Gwathlo. I feel like that will give us better insight into the situation and possibly open up new options. We picked Men of the West and I feel that this is the most pressing concern facing our colony. It's a three pronged goal to gain information, and thus leverage, over the Warden of Tharbad, that way we can negotiate a better settlement. There's an enormous amount of synergy in these options, so reject deal and gain information, then we re-approach him.
On the matter of dwarfs I could go either way. We don't want to side with one over the other at the moment, and the Gate Captain's request was fairly reasonable. We already want to ease the burden on the locals. We want knowledge, trade, and allies. The Blacklocks wander, so they might move off if they get what they came for, which would be bad for us. The last thing we want is to get into a war with dwarfs.
The Shaping Hall is attractive. It grows their influence, but would potentially allow us to work multiple projects at once. That'd be huge. It'd allow faster growth. I do want that Lore-Hall, eventually, since we want to build up the knowledge of Numenor in preparation of the fall. The granary or pasture both sound good to me, honestly.
We should speak with Ironbark if we want to make ships. We need wood and we don't want an angry ent attacking us because we clear cut the entire region. I wouldn't want to start construction on the shipyard until we know we got Ironbark's approval, otherwise war with the forest itself. That's something we don't want. The Wide Woods options mentions there being another steward, one with bright eyes, so possibly more ents to deal with. That's why I think no shipyard until after we deal with the ents. It's a secondary issue to the matters of the locals however.
I read through the quest again the other day, and came to the same conclusion. So, I'm very heavily in favor of maximizing use of the Shipwright. We're lifetimes of wealth in debt for gaining his expertise, so a plan not using said expertise, or at least bee-lining toward making use of said expertise, isn't acceptable in my opinion.
Not only is it a huge opportunity cost loss, but we have inspectors coming in, so having them show up and see we effectively wasted an infinite amount of their money on something we're not even using is a very, very bad look. We need the shipwright working until the day he dies to have made the choice worth it, his brain is worth more than everything else in this colony combined.
I get the desire to avoid pissing off Ironbark, and agree with it, so if we're incapable of using local wood sources for now, then we can trade excess stone to get it from somewhere else. Both Lond Daer and Umbar were called out as being hungry for stone, so we know we can fill a demand.
That's a great point. I think we might be able to fit those actions and the ones I suggested into a single plan. We should have enough action slots to do it. I'd draft a proposal myself, but I'm not sure how to handle the Expedition details and other stuff, but I'll give it a try.
Единственная проблема с Тарбадом - это командир башни, он не наследует его де-юре. Нам нужно только заменить его другим нуменорцем. Мы пригласим его в город и предложим либо уйти в отставку, либо пойти на аудиенцию к королю. Пусть оправдывается за неуплату налогов. Нападение на полуразрушенную башню легко осуществить, наняв нуменорцев или пару местных угнетенных племен. Нельзя просто сказать людям, что мы ударили Тирана по оружию из башни, и он пошлет сборщиков дани с меньшим количеством оружия.
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Arrogant Pride meets Disdainful Apathy. Comedic gold.
There is no war in Ba Sing Se.
Not... lying, per say, but not entirely honest either I think? Pride and/or mistrust breaking through perhaps.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
...So from this, I'd gather that this man sees Tharbad and the lands of Eriador as his home. Not the ever distant and uncaring King he pays lip service to on an island he's never seen.
Sometimes, foreshadowing is obvious.
Númenórean Tanya? This pleases me.
BOATS! GLORIOUS BOATS!
I think you copied it down twice by accident.
Also I think the point here is to avoid a war at all cost, and I doubt his people would just sit and do nothing if we tried that kinda bullshit.
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Never involve a great power. That's rule one as a small nation. Machiavelli gets incorrectly invoked from time to time, but this is something he was absolutely right about. If we involve the King then the King has reason to turn his eyes towards us. He may take a closer interest in distant colonies, if only to ensure they pay their taxes, and may place them under tight control to root out the Faithful's influence. The Warden would likely be replaced by a King's Man and its walls reinforced, possibly to serve as a fortress against elves and elf-friends. It could also impress the King enough to suggest other colonies become even more imperialistic and force neighbouring men into paying tribute.
It means he'll know our name and suddenly wonder if we're dodging taxers too. We're planning on getting close to our neighbours, and the Warden tried to bribe us giving us domain over the lands he extracts tribute from. It puts us under scrutiny. I don't think it's a trick option that will cause a bad end, but the last thing we want is the King to have reason to be suspicious of us, more so than they will be centuries down the line.
Italian city states allied to France invited it into a war that wasn't going good for them. It didn't lead to said city states establishing a hegemony over Italy, but France barging in and acting in its own interests by using the invitation as an excuse. They got to expand their power without looking like a warmonger diplomatically. That's what we want to avoid.
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DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
As we invited the Guild of Shapers to check on our progress, and we're in deep enough with them that we really want to make sure they stay happy and keep the shinies flowing our way, it seems worth checking back on what they care about the most:
We have the following build options which would clearly favor their interests:
Aside from building, these actions are probably the ones most obviously worth Shaper kudos points:
Exploring Enedwaith needs little explanation- the Shapers want resources, and that's the action to look for resources. If there are potential sources of metal to be found in our immediate area they will be 110% behind any attempts to exploit them, and frankly we should be too because we voted for a forge-city and that's just not going to happen without mines somewhere nearby, plus we need decent weapons before getting into any sort of fight. Similarly, the Shapers want lore, and exploring Eregion to find potential sites of shiny lore is exactly what they want to see us doing. An expedition to Nargil-Dûm is a bit more of a gamble, but with a potentially very high payoff- if the site's a bust we get nothing, but if we went there and were able to actually recover some kind of useful artifacts or lore, it would be a huge feather in our cap in the Shapers' eyes. A big enough one, I suspect, to guarantee further support from them in hopes of replicating such results. Being able to show that we've got maps with potential exploration sites marked out is valuable but nowhere near as valuable as having the results of such looking through such sites in hand.
The question to me is how many of these actions we can push into our plan while still managing our city properly, poking at the brewing Gundabad problem, and dealing with diplomatic endeavors.
This seems fairly clear: They want metal, and they want lore. Since this is their first sponsored colony presumably they will also want to see general signs of prosperity, and since they paid for that absurdly expensive shipwright they'll logically want to see that we're actually putting that investment to use instead of wasting it.
We have the following build options which would clearly favor their interests:
A Shaping Hall is obvious easy points with the Shapers since it gives them a base of operations but I'm not sure that we actually need one for its effect right now, and that may be sponsor points that we can save for some future inspection since presumably these will be recurring events. A Ranging House is extremely attractive to me because we're using the same people for exploring sites of potential ancient elvish lore and for keeping an eye on external threats, specifically Gundabad. This means that building it will simultaneously please our sponsors and boost our defenses. Accomplishing two high-priority objectives at once like that is hard to turn down. A Lore-Hall is likely to be essential for analyzing any ancient knowledge that we do manage to recover, but obviously exploration comes first in order to get that lost lore to analyze. The massive investment we made in that Shipwright means that it will almost certainly displease the Shapers if we don't have a Shipyard at least under construction when their rep shows up, and we want to get that up and running anyway because of the incredible importance of commerce to our colony's future prosperity; we can likely do preparatory actions (such as negotiating with Ironbark) this turn and start building it next.
Aside from building, these actions are probably the ones most obviously worth Shaper kudos points:
The harbor is desirable for obvious reasons- the Shapers paid for that iron and want to see it used, and once the harbor's built it lets our city become a key trade node and shipping location, which is likely to snowball into a successful colony. It might not be the optimal action from an administrative point of view, but it's highly visible and the Shaper representative is likely to approve of highly visible things.
Exploring Enedwaith needs little explanation- the Shapers want resources, and that's the action to look for resources. If there are potential sources of metal to be found in our immediate area they will be 110% behind any attempts to exploit them, and frankly we should be too because we voted for a forge-city and that's just not going to happen without mines somewhere nearby, plus we need decent weapons before getting into any sort of fight. Similarly, the Shapers want lore, and exploring Eregion to find potential sites of shiny lore is exactly what they want to see us doing. An expedition to Nargil-Dûm is a bit more of a gamble, but with a potentially very high payoff- if the site's a bust we get nothing, but if we went there and were able to actually recover some kind of useful artifacts or lore, it would be a huge feather in our cap in the Shapers' eyes. A big enough one, I suspect, to guarantee further support from them in hopes of replicating such results. Being able to show that we've got maps with potential exploration sites marked out is valuable but nowhere near as valuable as having the results of such looking through such sites in hand.
The question to me is how many of these actions we can push into our plan while still managing our city properly, poking at the brewing Gundabad problem, and dealing with diplomatic endeavors.
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Okay, this is a draft of my plan. I'd be willing to swap out the Militia for something else, but it seemed like a sensible decision. Plus with sending the Seastriders away we probably want more people to defend the colony.
I think we should get the Shaping Hall up so that we can do multiple projects. They're also our backers, so it'd look good to have a place to house them. I was tempted to pick pastures, but I didn't want to lock us our of a project slot when the Shaping Hall might unlock even more projects. Meep is right that we need to get started on that Shipyard to make use of the Shipwright, and at the same time we need to settle things with Ironbark. I was tempted to put Widen the Wood in case it triggered an interaction but that seemed like it'd piss Ironbark off. We don't want war with the woods.
I didn't know what to do with Barazir, so searching for orcs and their allies seemed like a good use of his abilities. Might as well make use of him, after all. The Mariner's route doesn't favour King's Men or Faithful, so it seems like a neutral path to take that let's us sale stone in exchange for wood.
Brun Gledd, Enedwaith, and Gwathlo give us a better sense of what's going on, and I believe that will open up more diplomatic options with the Warden. They got amazing thematic synergy. He was quick to offer us a deal, so he's trying to buy our silence and bind our word. We need to know more, and we picked Men of the West, so we must include the locals in decisions that regard them. We won't dictate their lives to them. It gives us more leverage over him too, which is always useful. It could turn him into a valuable ally if we show him force isn't necessary. We need not harden his heart.
This will also help lay the diplomatic groundwork to gather resources without completely pissing off the locals in the process.
[] Plan Surveying the Land
-[] Build A Shipyard: To properly utilize the Shipwright you brought with you, you begin construction on a great shipyard where vessels in the Númenórean style may be built.
-[] Build A Shaping Hall: A domed hall of cast stone, where the Shapers may plan, gather, and study. Most every colony has one. It would allow for a greater variety of construction projects, they assure you, and allow for several projects to be worked on at once. (Grows Shaper Influence)
--[] Uriphel
-[] Scout Gundabad: Beyond the Misty Mountains lies a mountain the dwarves mourn in their hearts. Evil stirs there now. Send rangers to scout the Mountain, and see what wakes in the north. A sizeable population of your people support doing this -- 4 Speakers are behind it.
--[] Barazir
-[] Search For Signs of Gundabad's Influence: There are whispers. Shadows in the dark. Shapes in the waters. Eyes in the forests. Evil awake in the lands of men. Orcs are about all Eriador, from the wide woods of Minhiriath to the ruins of Eregion. Seek them, and uncover their vile purpose. (Takes Two Turns)
-[] Send An Envoy to Brun Gledd: Several leagues north of the city lies Brun Gledd, a town built into and under six seperate hills. It was dug by the dwarves long ago, but it's first name is now long lost, and it is ruled by the Enedwaithrim and their aging lord Braelor. Send an envoy to break words with the Middle-Men.
-[] Send An Envoy To Rivendell: Imladris, or Rivendell, is an elvish stronghold deep in the heartlands of Eriador. Founded and ruled by the Elf-Lord Elrond Halfelven, it serves as a bastion of wisdom and learning in these later days of the world, projecting Elvish might into all eastern Eriador. The elves of Rivendell are force to be reckoned with, and are great traders and loremasters besides. It would not be unwise to make their acquaintance. A very large portion of your people support doing this -- 6 Speakers are behind it. 1 is stringently opposed, representing the farmers.
-[] Ironbark: In the deeps of the Iron Forest dwells an ent, an old thing with old eyes. He is no foe, not yet. But he is no friend of men, you do not think. Not anymore. Break words with him, and see if the strength of oak and yew might be bent in friendship. (requires hero)
--[] Imrazor
-[] Explore Enedwaith: There is still much in the lands around your city that you do not know. Send searchers to find valuable natural resources or ancient treasures, and map your new home fully. A sizeable share of your people support doing this -- 3 Speakers are behind it.
-[] The Gwathlo: You have made contact with the master of the Gwathlo, and the ford is held, as it has been for ten thousand lifetimes of the small men, by Númenór. If you so wish it, your men may pass beyond the ford, and see how Minhiriath has changed in ten centuries. The men of Tharbad speak of myraid towns and villages, and of civilizations flourishing in the wild. Venture past the Greyflood, and see what has become of these lands.
-[] Plan An Expedition:
---[] The Pillar of Heaven
---[] Inzilbeth Seastrider
---[] (Special) (Requires Inzilbeth) Reunite the Crew of the Pillar: Inzilbeth's old crew have been sailing the rivers and serving as an impromptu city guard. Have them trade the sword for the seaspray. (Temporarily disbands the Seastriders)
--[] The Mariner's Route: This path travels from Lond Daer to Romenna on the Blessed Isle, and finishes at Pelargir. (Costs 1 supplies)
--[] Trade
---[] Stone: You have a small amount of surplus stone left over. You have heard they hunger for it in crumbling Lond Daer and ever-besieged Umbar.
What do people think? It prepares for our survey/audit, gets us a lead on branded orcs, and info on the local area. We can begin construction on the Harbour itself next turn, which the Shaper Hall might possibly help with.
Edit: Switched out "Expand Militia" with "Envoy to Rivendell."
Edit 2: Moved Barazir from "Search for Signs of Gundabad's Influence" to "Scout Gundabad."
I think we should get the Shaping Hall up so that we can do multiple projects. They're also our backers, so it'd look good to have a place to house them. I was tempted to pick pastures, but I didn't want to lock us our of a project slot when the Shaping Hall might unlock even more projects. Meep is right that we need to get started on that Shipyard to make use of the Shipwright, and at the same time we need to settle things with Ironbark. I was tempted to put Widen the Wood in case it triggered an interaction but that seemed like it'd piss Ironbark off. We don't want war with the woods.
I didn't know what to do with Barazir, so searching for orcs and their allies seemed like a good use of his abilities. Might as well make use of him, after all. The Mariner's route doesn't favour King's Men or Faithful, so it seems like a neutral path to take that let's us sale stone in exchange for wood.
Brun Gledd, Enedwaith, and Gwathlo give us a better sense of what's going on, and I believe that will open up more diplomatic options with the Warden. They got amazing thematic synergy. He was quick to offer us a deal, so he's trying to buy our silence and bind our word. We need to know more, and we picked Men of the West, so we must include the locals in decisions that regard them. We won't dictate their lives to them. It gives us more leverage over him too, which is always useful. It could turn him into a valuable ally if we show him force isn't necessary. We need not harden his heart.
This will also help lay the diplomatic groundwork to gather resources without completely pissing off the locals in the process.
[] Plan Surveying the Land
-[] Build A Shipyard: To properly utilize the Shipwright you brought with you, you begin construction on a great shipyard where vessels in the Númenórean style may be built.
-[] Build A Shaping Hall: A domed hall of cast stone, where the Shapers may plan, gather, and study. Most every colony has one. It would allow for a greater variety of construction projects, they assure you, and allow for several projects to be worked on at once. (Grows Shaper Influence)
--[] Uriphel
-[] Scout Gundabad: Beyond the Misty Mountains lies a mountain the dwarves mourn in their hearts. Evil stirs there now. Send rangers to scout the Mountain, and see what wakes in the north. A sizeable population of your people support doing this -- 4 Speakers are behind it.
--[] Barazir
-[] Search For Signs of Gundabad's Influence: There are whispers. Shadows in the dark. Shapes in the waters. Eyes in the forests. Evil awake in the lands of men. Orcs are about all Eriador, from the wide woods of Minhiriath to the ruins of Eregion. Seek them, and uncover their vile purpose. (Takes Two Turns)
-[] Send An Envoy to Brun Gledd: Several leagues north of the city lies Brun Gledd, a town built into and under six seperate hills. It was dug by the dwarves long ago, but it's first name is now long lost, and it is ruled by the Enedwaithrim and their aging lord Braelor. Send an envoy to break words with the Middle-Men.
-[] Send An Envoy To Rivendell: Imladris, or Rivendell, is an elvish stronghold deep in the heartlands of Eriador. Founded and ruled by the Elf-Lord Elrond Halfelven, it serves as a bastion of wisdom and learning in these later days of the world, projecting Elvish might into all eastern Eriador. The elves of Rivendell are force to be reckoned with, and are great traders and loremasters besides. It would not be unwise to make their acquaintance. A very large portion of your people support doing this -- 6 Speakers are behind it. 1 is stringently opposed, representing the farmers.
-[] Ironbark: In the deeps of the Iron Forest dwells an ent, an old thing with old eyes. He is no foe, not yet. But he is no friend of men, you do not think. Not anymore. Break words with him, and see if the strength of oak and yew might be bent in friendship. (requires hero)
--[] Imrazor
-[] Explore Enedwaith: There is still much in the lands around your city that you do not know. Send searchers to find valuable natural resources or ancient treasures, and map your new home fully. A sizeable share of your people support doing this -- 3 Speakers are behind it.
-[] The Gwathlo: You have made contact with the master of the Gwathlo, and the ford is held, as it has been for ten thousand lifetimes of the small men, by Númenór. If you so wish it, your men may pass beyond the ford, and see how Minhiriath has changed in ten centuries. The men of Tharbad speak of myraid towns and villages, and of civilizations flourishing in the wild. Venture past the Greyflood, and see what has become of these lands.
-[] Plan An Expedition:
---[] The Pillar of Heaven
---[] Inzilbeth Seastrider
---[] (Special) (Requires Inzilbeth) Reunite the Crew of the Pillar: Inzilbeth's old crew have been sailing the rivers and serving as an impromptu city guard. Have them trade the sword for the seaspray. (Temporarily disbands the Seastriders)
--[] The Mariner's Route: This path travels from Lond Daer to Romenna on the Blessed Isle, and finishes at Pelargir. (Costs 1 supplies)
--[] Trade
---[] Stone: You have a small amount of surplus stone left over. You have heard they hunger for it in crumbling Lond Daer and ever-besieged Umbar.
What do people think? It prepares for our survey/audit, gets us a lead on branded orcs, and info on the local area. We can begin construction on the Harbour itself next turn, which the Shaper Hall might possibly help with.
Edit: Switched out "Expand Militia" with "Envoy to Rivendell."
Edit 2: Moved Barazir from "Search for Signs of Gundabad's Influence" to "Scout Gundabad."
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DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
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If we don't take actions to meet with elves, the faithfuls might get pissed ya know. They really want to do that.
Use the expedition for Elf diplomacy perhaps? Elrond and his gang might also known about Gundabad. We also don't need Expand militia.
Use the expedition for Elf diplomacy perhaps? Elrond and his gang might also known about Gundabad. We also don't need Expand militia.
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Rivendell is tempting and highly demanded. The militia seemed like a good neutral option to take, especially while the Seastriders were away on expedition. I could switch it out though.
Any thoughts on the rest of it? It's the first time I've proposed a plan for the quest, so I'm hoping people like it.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
I pretty much agree with everything you are doing. Though, the downside of going for Elrond is that we may also need to do something to make the farmers happy this turn or the next
.Well in this case, what do the farmers want?
It's likely that one of the other options chosen probably includes them. At the same time raising Militia doesn't actively piss anybody off, and of all the people to not piss off the guys who grow your food is pretty high up the list.